Will races exist?

[Abood]

Will races exist when communism is established or will they blend together with generations? For example, will a Middle Eastern marry/screw a Middle Eastern and continue that race, or will there be more inter-racial (or whatever that word is) relationships with inter-racial offspring? Do you think that races will no longer exist? Or will they exist but people will accept each other?

[More Fire for the People]

People will marry and screw whoever they want so long as both partners [or more] consent. My hope is that once racial barriers are torn down humanity will drift towards a “tan society” that is ethnically African, European, Asian, and Native American [more or less depending on the region].

[boosh logic]

Races will still exist. If complete communism was achieved, why would there be need for it not to? It would be near impossible to form a global race, as there are too many people for it to just happen like that, even if it began now I doubt by the next millenium we'd even be close.

[FriedFrog]

Races would still exist, they just wouldn't be used as a form of seperating humanity as they are now.

You can get all sorts of breeds of dogs, but they're all dogs in the end, aren't they? Same with humans.

[Led Zeppelin]

Race will exist in the scientific sense of the word, but in the social sense it will have disappeared.

[coda]

What the Human Genome Project is proving is that race is nothing more than a social construct. There are no distinct lines demarcating any biologically determined racial traits, but instead degrees and tenths of degress of genetic diversity of the same primordial soup runnning through all modern human's DNA due to thousands of years of migration and interbreeding and all pointing to a single point of African origin.

This means two things... 1) that the former theories about race and predominate genetic compositions are more spontanous rather than determinant and that DNA research shows that genetic variations among all populations are small and that their are greater variations within racial groups than between them, and 2) the old former theories of race are wrong and need to be disposed of.

What you can be sure of is that If a certain biological characteristic ever becomes dominate and exclusive than it was done through eugenics and the selective manipulation of genes, which is one reason why cloning and stem cell technology needs to be carefully safeguarded in the future.

What needs to be wiped out is not diversity, but the negative associations about diversity which has created the scourge of racism.

Here is an educational interesting transcript from a documentary about race. It's three-parts but worth the read.

http://www.newsreel.org/transcripts/race.htm

http://www.newsreel.org/nav/title.asp?tc=CN0149

[Seong]

But what about religion? Alot of religions do not allow the intermingling of faiths e.g. Islam and Judaism. And will there be marriage? I hadn't really thought about that before.

[Led Zeppelin]

Religion will no longer exist, at least not in any meaningful, that is, sizeable manner (there might be some individuals who still are religious, but they are such an insignificant minority that no one cares).

Marriage will most certainly exist, for this reason:


Originally posted by Engels
The study of primitive history, however, reveals conditions where the men live in polygamy and their wives in polyandry at the same time, and their common children are therefore considered common to them all -- and these conditions in their turn undergo a long series of changes before they finally end in monogamy. The trend of these changes is to narrow more and more the circle of people comprised within the common bond of marriage, which was originally very wide, until at last it includes only the single pair, the dominant form of marriage today.

In other words; marriage is not the product of bourgeois or upper-class ideology, it is more part of the natural development of mankind.

[Red Powers]

M-L

Race will exist in the scientific sense of the word, but in the social sense it will have disappeared.

Race doesn't exist now in any kind of scientific sense. It is purely a social construct. There's no scientific basis for something called "race."

[Hegemonicretribution]

Thank you Indigo, you put that much more eloquently than my sketchy attempt in the discrimination thread.

I would assert that racism is no more than social bias based on aesthetics. However it has become a specific form, and to that end the term still has meaning.

Post-revolutionary versions of the term "race" would likely differ. There will not be races, just as there aren't now (in the truest sense at least)

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2006, 12:24 PM
What you can be sure of is that If a certain biological characteristic ever becomes dominate and exclusive than it was done through eugenics and the selective manipulation of genes, which is one reason why cloning and stem cell technology needs to be carefully safeguarded in the future.

We have established that racial barriers will be gone, and racial definitions won't be needed. But, even in about 1,000,000 years will human beings have one single skin colour, due to all the years of outer breeding?

Consider ferel dogs, they are a single breed from all the years of breeds intermingling.

Will there be a universal language from all the languages we have now?
If I'm not mistaken,(and I'm not saying English will be the universal language), but it conslidated languages from the Germanic, and Latin tribes.

[fernando]

Race doesnt exist...and even the social construct we have given to "race" differs greatly between cultures, the US has a different perception of race than the Japanese or the Brazilians for example.

[Led Zeppelin]

Race doesn't exist now in any kind of scientific sense.

Yes it does, what do you call for example the work that historians do to analyze human history with the use of races/tribes/ethnicity's?

In fact, what do you call Engels himself using race to analyze history, for example:


Originally posted by Engels
In the Eastern Hemisphere the middle stage of barbarism began with the domestication of animals providing milk and meat, but horticulture seems to have remained unknown far into this period. It was, apparently, the domestication and breeding of animals and the formation of herds of considerable size that led to the differentiation of the Aryans and Semites from the mass of barbarians. The European and Asiatic Aryans still have the same names for cattle, but those for most of the cultivated plants are already different.

Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying, I meant that scientists and historians will still use "race" to better do their work, not saying that "race" in the proper sense of the word exists, only in the historic sense, like how Engels used it to better analyze human history.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by Socialist [email protected] 8 2006, 12:59 PM
Will races exist when communism is established or will they blend together with generations? For example, will a Middle Eastern marry/screw a Middle Eastern and continue that race, or will there be more inter-racial (or whatever that word is) relationships with inter-racial offspring? Do you think that races will no longer exist? Or will they exist but people will accept each other?
It's more important to note that race does not exist presently or in the future.

[fernando]

Yes it does, what do you call for example the work that historians do to analyze human history with the use of races/tribes/ethnicity's?

Anthropological studies? Race has no biological backbone, just socially assumed ideas in which one groups tries to differentiate itself from the rest by trying to make up biological excuses.


In fact, what do you call Engels himself using race to analyze history, for example:

Still the use of race would be wrong...its a cultural thing, not biological!


Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying, I meant that scientists and historians will still use "race" to better do their work, not saying that "race" in the proper sense of the word exists, only in the historic sense, like how Engels used it to better analyze human history.
They should use another word since race is a biological aspect. And uhm werent historians also scientists? ;)

[Led Zeppelin]

What word do you suggest they use?


And uhm werent historians also scientists?

Yes, I probably should have said "scientists, specifically historians".

I'm sure you forgive me. :)

[Severian]

Originally posted by Socialist [email protected] 8 2006, 01:59 PM
For example, will a Middle Eastern marry/screw a Middle Eastern and continue that race, or will there be more inter-racial (or whatever that word is) relationships with inter-racial offspring?
The latter is already happening. The elimination of "races" - if you mean physical differences between people in different parts of the world - is already going on. And has been for hundreds of years, with the expansion of world trade and migration.

In a world without borders, and without masters or servants, it would probably accelerate.

Somebody wrote:" But what about religion? Alot of religions do not allow the intermingling of faiths e.g. Islam and Judaism. "

And yet that's never stopped everyone. Nor has anything else. People like to screw, and we're all one species. Once large numbers of people get off the separate continents where different groups of people evolved....the rest is inevitable.

But more importantly: who cares? What significance do these minor physical differences have anyway? If we all had the same skin color, what would have changed in history? Upper classes have found plenty of other excuses to enslave or oppress people, even to proclaim pale-skinned Eastern Europeans "racially" inferior Untermenschen.

[Abood]

Thanx everyone for answering my question.
Another question just popped up:
Would cultures still exist in Communism?!

[fernando]

There is a more interesting question, how would communism deal with cultures and societies who are not capitalistic but also not following their doctrines? If a country was fully communistic and there would be some indiginous population...would they be forced to become communists? I guess communism will employ something similar to what most European ideas and people did in the past, sort of "enlightening the savages" in some sort of white man's burden like idea. At least those were the sentiments many rural indians in Peru felt when the Sendero Luminoso tried to shove their maoist ideas down their troats.

[Abood]

That's not what i asked.
I'll rephrase my question...
Will cultural celebrations exist? And would something like "i'm an arab and proud" exist?
cuz i hear that quote from many people in kuwait and all arab countries.

[Sentinel]

Originally posted by Socialist Advocate
Will cultural celebrations exist?

Positive aspects of all cultures must be recognized by all! And negative ones condemned.


And would something like "i'm an arab and proud" exist?

Nope, that is nationalist and reactionary. What's positive about simply being proud of one's heritage? That's lifting it above others.

Saying "I'm proud of the great arab music", "I'm proud of the delicious arab food", and so on, is a different thing, though. But just being proud of being an arab doesn't make much sense, right?

This is what I think anyway.

[fernando]

Would depend on who are the leaders of this giant communist state...

[Abood]

Would depend on who are the leaders of this giant communist state...
HUH?! Communism is a stateless society and has no leader.


Saying "I'm proud of the great arab music", "I'm proud of the delicious arab food", and so on, is a different thing, though. But just being proud of being an arab doesn't make much sense, right?
I agree :D

I dont like most arabic music. but i like loads of arabic food, of many arabic countries..
i also like loads of other cultural food such as chinese, mexican and others :P

[fernando]

HUH?! Communism is a stateless society and has no leader.
Look at the USSR...the Russians were still the dominant group and other cultures simply had to adapt to Russian culture.

[Abood]

This is gettin into an ideological debate.
The USSR never reached Communism, most people would put it as "socialist"... not forgettin the fact that USSR stands for: United Soviet SOCIALIST Republics ;)

[commiecrusader]

I don't think a lot of people would even class the USSR as socialist...

I think eventually all creeds and colours will cease to exist, we will all mix together into a lovely compromise between the darkest and lightest skin colours. 'Race' is used to divide the working classes by the bourgeoisie. I thought that race did exist, although Donrade RAF seems to disagree, although I am yet to see any evidence for this apart from his overinflated ego... :lol: However, as my opinion stands now, (ie that races do exist), I would say that in the end, races will all get mixed together, but that will take a long time. Under communism however, race will become irrelevant in my opinion.

[James]

this sounds like diversity...

i may be wrong but i do believe that diversity was an old old wooden ship used during the civil war.

[Vinny Rafarino]

I thought that race did exist, although Donrade RAF seems to disagree, although I am yet to see any evidence for this apart from his overinflated ego.

Does that mean you also question the "over-inflated egos" of LSD and others on this board?

Or are you simply just "offended" by my personality?

There is nothing at all stopping you from researching the subject yourself. It's not my job to explain things to you when you are perfectly able to get the same and even better information in a matter of minutes from the internet.

I mean good grief CC, you're already on the internet when you come here; perhaps it's time to used it to your advantage.

Do you even realise that we all carry the same genes; it's simply a matter of environment stimuli as to what genes will be "activated".

In the modern era of genetic biology, what's commonly refered to as "race" is used to appropriately define predispostitions to certain genetic diseases.

Don't want to hear it from me? That's okay, try hearing it from Leena Peltonen, one of the world's leading geneticists:


Originally posted by Leona Peltonen+--> (Leona Peltonen)Race is used in biology for birds and animals—the term is tantamount to subspecies—but [my] studies have no use for it. Patterns of human variation can be linked to geography, and geographic ancestry can be linked to health risks. Race may fade away once we understand all the variants, but for diagnostic purposes it will be useful to know where your roots are. That’s the value of the Finnish Disease Heritage. The story of these genes helps us visualize how Finland was settled.”[/b]

Here's another quote from the "over-inflated egotist" Dr. Harold Freeman of the Celera Genomics Corporation:


Dr. Freeman
One of the most astonishing features of the contemporary discussion of race is the fact that anthropology, the science that deals with human biological and cultural variation, has managed to be marginalized.

Regardless of reason, it is clear that there is no consensus and great confusion exists in the discipline with regards to race.

[b]The biological concept of race . . . has no basis in science.

Bold added.

This of course is simply a couple quotes, since it's now common knowledge that genetic science has smashed the idea of "race" (even the cultural anthroplogists agree) if you want to hear from other "over-inflated" egos, it won't be that hard to find thousads more.

Not finding them would actually be the hard part.

[LSD]

Does that mean you also question the "over-inflated egos" of LSD and others on this board?

How the fuck did my name come up? :huh:

In any case, this has turned into a rather basic discussion so I'm moving it to Learning.

[cbm989]

i dont think i want race to dissapear, neither scientificly nor socially. if we lose race we lose culture, which i believe is an integral part of human society

[Body Count]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 04:00 AM
i dont think i want race to dissapear, neither scientificly nor socially. if we lose race we lose culture, which i believe is an integral part of human society
Why do you believe this?

Are you saying that an Italian cannot enjoy and live Chinese culture or vice versa?

Culture is simply how people live.

[coda]

<<But, even in about 1,000,000 years will human beings have one single skin colour, due to all the years of outer breeding?>>

Well, like Comrade RAF/Don Cicio pointed out... depends on what the environment conditions will be like then. Humans might have rainbow-colored scales in the future. :)

DNA is smart, but it&#39;s not going to seek a middle ground to eliminate racism and ignorance. The variations we have, have always been very small and due to gene mutation, allele, and DNA recombination or swapping-- all natural processes, Blue, Green eyes, Blonde, Red hair, all are pigments/melanin, just like skin color is and all those traits came about through gene mutation due to environmental compensation and adaption.

So, these small variations are pretty much built in. If you look at any given family and the variations therein. You would think that any two parents would continue to have the same copy of offspring every time, given that they both contribute 50% of their own genes to the offspring. But.... what is actually happening is that they and (everyone) have two copies of every single gene and not always the same copy of each particular gene is being passed down to the offspring. One offspring may get one copy of the gene and the other may get the other and sometimes they get the same, --- that goes for hair color, skin color and even eye color, depending on allele and that is why there are variations even within immediate family groups.

so with no further adieu, to alienate you further from society&#33; you are not only just 50% genetically related to your parents, and children. but also only about 50% genetically related to any of your siblings. Only identical twins have 100% identical DNA. so you are related to your family 50%, about as much as you are related to any other human being on the planet 50%.
so, these very small variations that we call race are really just the anal splitting of hairs and an attempt to dehumanize people. it&#39;s not like some people have horns, and snouts and tails, and fins. We are all the same biologically and technically related to everyone else.

[leftist resistance]

For me,race is close to useless.i regard myself to be raceless,except if you&#39;re meaning in biological term.im sick of people saying "we must help our own people(race),blablabla".how about other races?they&#39;re foreign people.to hell with that thinking.im part of the human race,thats what i am.
And screw religious bullshit,too.i am born to a muslim family.but my gf is christian.i love her with all my heart.and even though the Quran explicitely allow the marriage with christian and judaic women,im suppposed to believe that i can&#39;t marry her.just because a cleric said this and that.

You mean culture as in tradition or only merely celebrations?i believe new culture will surface to replace the old.since culture has evolved over time,it will still do.holidays will be like "happy day",etc.,where the focus is not on one particular group but to all.

[cbm989]

Originally posted by Body Count+Feb 11 2006, 06:12 AM--> (Body Count @ Feb 11 2006, 06:12 AM)
c[email protected] 11 2006, 04:00 AM
i dont think i want race to dissapear, neither scientificly nor socially. if we lose race we lose culture, which i believe is an integral part of human society
Why do you believe this?

Are you saying that an Italian cannot enjoy and live Chinese culture or vice versa?

Culture is simply how people live. [/b]
i think you took what i said wrong. I dont mean to say people are limited to things by race, i simply meant that the ideas and basis of culture originate through race. if we are all the same, we all have the same culture. thus making us all conformists and leaving no individuals. thats a horrible society in my opinion.

[Ol' Dirty]

Originally posted by Socialist [email protected] 8 2006, 08:01 PM
Will races exist when communism is established or will they blend together with generations? For example, will a Middle Eastern marry/screw a Middle Eastern and continue that race, or will there be more inter-racial (or whatever that word is) relationships with inter-racial offspring? Do you think that races will no longer exist? Or will they exist but people will accept each other?
Race doesn&#39;t exist now; it never did. Physiologically, we are all 99% the same. That tiny one percent that we base our assumptions on (hair color, skin color, eye color) are compleatly irrelevant.

Ethnincity, on the other hand, does exist, and always shall. As long as humans share a common geneology, there will be ethnicity. But in a Communist, Anarchist or Socialist society, there would be less focus on things like ethnicity and "race"; the individuals characteristics would be, though.

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 08:20 PM
Race doesn&#39;t exist now; it never did. Physiologically, we are all 99% the same. That tiny one percent that we base our assumptions on (hair color, skin color, eye color) are compleatly irrelevant.

acctullay its 99.99% the same. :P

If we were of different race in the scientific term that would mean we would not be able to have successful offspring (children who are not able to reproduce) i.e. a horse and a donkey equal a mule which is sterile. so there is no current different human race.

[&#33;Injustice&#33;]

honestly with any form of government i still believe that with the ingnorance in the people there will still be races even under the communist government because people will still say that one race is better than the other even for the dumbmest reasons even under the most equal and the fairest government......but yet again that is jus my opinion.

[Ol' Dirty]

Originally posted by Skinz+Feb 11 2006, 11:07 PM--> (Skinz @ Feb 11 2006, 11:07 PM)
[/b]

[email protected] 11 2006, 08:20 PM
Race doesn&#39;t exist now; it never did. Physiologically, we are all 99% the same. That tiny one percent that we base our assumptions on (hair color, skin color, eye color) are compleatly irrelevant.



acctullay its 99.99% the same. :P

:) Very true.


If we were of different race in the scientific term that would mean we would not be able to have successful offspring (children who are not able to reproduce) i.e. a horse and a donkey equal a mule which is sterile. so there is no current different human race.

An excellent point.