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Rosa Lichtenstein
8th February 2006, 02:55
Comrades might like to think about this (taken from my site):

"The quandary facing dialecticians we might call the "Dialecticians' Dilemma" [DD]. The DD arises from the uncontroversial observation that if reality is fundamentally contradictory then any true theory should reflect this supposed state of affairs. However, and this is the problem, in order to do this such a theory must contain contradictions itself or it would not be an accurate reflection of nature. But, if the development of science is predicated either on the removal of contradictions from theories, or on the replacement of older theories with less contradictory ones, as DM-theorists contend, then science could not advance toward a 'truer' account of the world. This is because scientific theories would then reflect reality less accurately, having had all (or most) of their contradictions removed.

[DM = Dialectical Materialism.]

Conversely, if a true theory aims to reflect contradictions in nature more accurately (which it must do if the latter is contradictory) then scientists should not attempt to remove contradictions from -- or try to resolve them in or between -- theories. Clearly, on that score, science could not advance, since there would be no reason to replace a contradictory theory with a less contradictory one. Indeed, if DM were correct, scientific theories should become more contradictory -- not less -- as they approached more closely the truth about 'contradictory' reality. That, of course, would mean that scientific theory in general would become more defective with time!

Again, if science developed as a result of the removal of contradictions then a fully true theory should have had all (or most) of them removed. Science ought then to reflect (in the limit) the fact that reality contains no contradictions!



However, according to DM, scientific theories should rightly be replaced by ones that depict reality as fundamentally contradictory, this despite the fact that scientists will have removed every (or nearly every) contradiction in order to have reached that point, if DM were correct. On the other hand, if scientists failed to remove contradictions (or, if they refused to replace an older theory with a newer, less contradictory one), so that their theories reflected the contradictory nature of reality more accurately, they would then have no good reason to reject any theory no matter how inconsistent it was.

Whichever way this rusty old DM-banger is driven, the 'dialectical' view of scientific progress and contradictions hits a very material brick wall in the shape of the DD each time.

Dialecticians have thus so far failed to distinguish contradictions that are the mere [i]artefacts of a defective theory from those that supposedly reflect 'objective' features of the world. But, how might these be distinguished in DM-terms? How is it possible to tell if a contradiction is an accurate reflection of reality or if it is a consequence of a faulty theory, if all of reality (including scientific theory) is contradictory? Practice is of no help here since that takes place in the phenomenal world, which is riddled with contradictions, according to DM, and as such must be contradictory itself!

For example, DM-theorists generally argue that the wave-particle duality of light confirms the thesis that nature is fundamentally dialectical; in this case, light is supposed to be a UO of wave and particle. Precisely how they are a unity (i.e., how it could be true that matter is fundamentally particulate and fundamentally non-particulate all at once) is of course left eminently obscure -- and how this helps account for the material world is even less perspicuous. This alleged UO does nothing to explain change -- unless we are supposed to accept the idea that light being a particle changes it into a wave, and vice versa. But what is the point of that? What role does this particular 'contradiction' play in either DM or Physics? At best it seems to be merely ornamental.

[UO = Unity of Opposites.]

Now, if we put to one side the 'solution' to this puzzle offered by, say, Superstring Theory, there are still Physicists -- with, it seems, a more robust commitment to scientific realism than the average dialectician displays -- who believe that this 'paradox' can be resolved within a realist picture of nature. Whether they are correct or not need not detain us since DM-theorists (if consistent) ought to advise these rather rash realists not to bother trying to solve this riddle. This is because dialectics provides an a priori solution to it: since nature is fundamentally contradictory there is in fact no solution --, which paradoxical state of affairs should, of course, simply be "grasped".

Unfortunately, in that case, if physicists took this advice, Physics could not advance to a superior view of nature (if one exists) by eliminating this alleged contradiction. At best this a priori approach to knowledge would close available options down, forcing scientists to adopt a view of reality that might not be correct. Fortunately, there is little evidence so far that Physicists have taken heed of this aspect of dialectics, even if they have ever heard of it.

Now, only those who disagree with Lenin about the incomplete nature of science (or, alternatively, have a rather poor knowledge of the History of Physics) would risk concluding that contemporary science has a final and complete picture of reality, at least in this particular case. If so, Physics could only advance by eliminating this paradox (and hence removing one of the best examples DM-theorists have that supposedly illustrates the fundamentally contradictory nature of reality). Only those who want to foist their ideas on nature will object at this point.

On the other hand, if DM-theorists' advice to scientists is that they should in general try to replace contradictory theories (such as this one) with less logically-challenged ones, then they will have to abandon the idea that nature is fundamentally contradictory -- at least here. This conclusion is all the more pressing if certain scientists think they have already solved this problem (David Bohm being one, for example). But, this is just the DD once again: the DM-inspired belief in the contradictory nature of reality, coupled with the claim that science only advances by removing contradictions cannot, it seems, distinguish between contradictions that hold up the progress of science (and which are therefore artefacts of a defective or incomplete theory) from those that reveal the essentially 'contradictory' nature of reality.

Although some (like Plekhanov) have acknowledged the problem, it remains unresolved to this day. The various ways there might be for DM-theorists to escape from the hole they have dug themselves into are examined in my thesis and there shown to fail. [Dialecticians are therefore advised to stop digging.]"

Read more at:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rosa.l/page%2007.htm

red_che
8th February 2006, 07:38
I'm now in the process reading your "essays". So far, all I can say is that, those essays have nothing to do or contribute in the advancement of the proletarian movement. :(

Those essays, sad to say, do not present anything which are helpful in the advancement of the proletarian struggle. :o

Aside from your so-called "demolishing" of dialectical materialism (which, based from what I've read so far, didn't demolish at all), nothing in those essays prove anything, except your talent at writing. :D

Okay, then, let me again read more of your essays before I will make a more thorough comment on those. I don't have much time to read them all, so I'm reading them bit by bit. :)

redstar2000
8th February 2006, 12:50
Originally posted by red_che
Those essays, sad to say, do not present anything which are helpful in the advancement of the proletarian struggle.

No, not in the sense that they tell you "here's what to do next".

Research into the basic physical properties of the universe does not produce "instant blueprints" for an interstellar spaceship.

Rosa Lichtenstein is doing basic research into how we think about material reality...more specifically, criticizing the whole philosophical tradition of the last 2,500 years of class society.

That's something that needs to be done.

Why? Because what all those philosophers taught "trickles down" to ordinary working people. An enormous number of people who stoutly claim to "think for themselves" unconsciously echo the metaphysical musings of some "dead white guy" because it's "common knowledge".

"Dialectics" has had a particularly pernicious effect...allowing a substantial number of sincere charlatans to advance all manner of nonsense about practical affairs from an intellectually "elevated" position.

For example, instead of naked reformism or opportunism, how much more appealing those options looked when gloriously bedecked in a "dialectical coat of many colors".

People who sincerely wanted to be revolutionaries were intellectually coerced into behaving like reformists or opportunists because they were intimidated by the "masters of the dialectic".

The failures of such practices were then "dialectically transformed" into "victories"...blocking the way for people to learn from practical experience.

By the middle 1930s, for example, all the Comintern parties in the "west" were behaving like social democrats -- even though the Comintern had been set up precisely to oppose the counter-revolutionary practices of social democracy.

How did that happen? I'll bet that if it were practical to go back and look at the internal documents of those parties, you'd find that in each one of them the party leadership "justified" their social democratic practice "dialectically".

And what could people say to that? Since it was "known" that "dialectics" is the "master key" to understanding social reality.

So when Rosa hammers "dialectics", she's doing something that will be of practical benefit to a revolutionary proletariat. She's destroying that "dialectical coat of many colors" and forcing those who advocate social democracy to appear naked in public...not a very pleasant sight. :o

But it needs to happen for progress to be made.

And the same is true for all manner of intellectual trash that pollutes the public discourse. Some guy gets up in the front of the room and "baffles us with bullshit" and we think "he's so much smarter" than we are that we just shrink down in our chairs and meekly vote "yes".

That has to stop before proletarian revolution becomes possible.

We as revolutionaries need to demand clarity in revolutionary theory...otherwise, we'll just end up as suckers for the next fast-talking salesman that comes along. :o

Rosa is murderously plotting the "death of the salesmen"...and you simply have no idea how helpful that's going to be in the long run. :D

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

Rosa Lichtenstein
8th February 2006, 14:53
Red Che, if, as I maintain, dialectics has in its own small way contributed to the almost total failure of Marxism, then its demolition is 130 years overdue.

[You can read an outline of my reasons for saying this in the summary to Essay Nine. Full details to follow over the next few months.]

Thus the demolition of DM will in itself assist the workers' movement, which is a point I make over and over again -- so I wonder how carefully you are reading my words.

No matter. The future of Marxism does not depend on your agreement with my devastating criticisms.

Of course, it's very easy just to type "your demolition does not work" etc., but unless you can respond to my searching objections, your words just amount to whistling in the dark. If that makes you feel better, I can understand. As I point out, dialectics makes believers feel better since it satisfies their simple faith that whatever happens, objective reality is on their side -- a replacement for God - despite the fact that reality tells a different story.

This is not surprising given the Hermetic origins of DM. This sort of gobbledygook has been consoling souls for over two thousand years, so it must do a good job.

If you prefer fairy tales to reality, that is your punishment, and nothing I can say will be able to damage you more than you are harming yourself.

However, no matter how deep into the sand you thrust your head, you can't ignore the march of history, Red Che; the age of mystical dialectics is drawing to a close. No longer will comrades be able to parade this crackpot theory as cutting edge science. I am progressively exposing its non-existent foundations.

No wonder that, as the working class gets larger, the more they ignore dialectical Marxism.