Black-against-white racism

[adenoid hynkel]

This is from the Black Power website www.assatashakur.org


View Poll Results: Are only the "mean" whites the enemies of Afrikan people? What about the "nice"
Yes, only the "mean" ones are enemies. 2 5.88%
No, Both plan for whites to remain in power and are thus white supremacists 22 64.71%
Neither are "enemies", they are all potentially friends and allies. 0 0%
The "nice" ones are more of Our enemies than the "mean" ones! 7 20.59%
Other 6 17.65%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

Some answers to this poll

A "nice" cracka ? NEVER heard or seen one all i see is crackas who befriend and "help" Afrikans out of guilt or ignorance of self or completely are oblivious to the fact that there are other people in the world besides them and Black folk who think whites are their friends will eventually find out that they look out for their "race" before they will look out for you.....sorta like the way Afrikans should be doing but don't in hopes of racial harmony ......I like this question it seperates the coons from the Afrikans that are about Black liberation at any cost !


White-liberals are the advance-team of "keep the n*ggers in line" of the yt supremacy malitia. When they speak, all I "see" is them rubbing our heads. They are the indeed dangerious, as I imagine their agenda is "calming the waters" to keep their place. They seem to not want to kill nothing, or let nothing die -howerver, THEY ALL REVERT TO TYPE.

Most of them believe that Africans or "minorities" ought to be grateful to them for their efforts, and become violently indignant if they're not thanked or their boots not licked clean enough, and thier anger turns to "kell 'em all" when provoked.

I accept that yt people have reconciled themselves to supremacy and survival on this planet at the expense of Africans and actively act to eliminate us. There's no such thing as 'good cancer' or 'bad cancer.' It spreads and will soon destroy the body.

They don't refer to themselves as "mankind" for nothing. We HUE-MANS better get with the first law of nature -SURVUVAL right-quick and stop rationalizing and negotiating with those who would see us become "extinct."

yt people exist in a collective mind of "Wild Kingdom." They're beasts of burden. AND I MEAN THAT.

Peace!



i prefer the angry KKK/ Nazi types...least the HONEST bout how they feel

the "I wanna be down" types only make me ''paranoid'' (CAUTIOUS!)....



Absolutely NONE OF THEM ARE OUR FRIENDS!!!! kILL EM,......KILL EM

I would like to learn how the people here( both the leftish ones and the restricted members) feel about this black-against-white racism. If there are any black people here I would also like to know their opinion about this. I live in Greece where there are very few black people. So I would like to know if this poll represents how the majority of black people feel.

[Eoin Dubh]

Most unfortunate.

It seems there is no limit to the challenges we are faced with.
We must offer a positive alternative.

= :hammer:



(Black power also has some positive connotations, I think! :unsure: )

[BuyOurEverything]

There's a difference between black power and black supremacy. The latter is virtually non-existant as a serious movement but is brought up all the time to marginalize serious black radicals.

[bcbm]

Unfortunately, much of their criticisms of whites who attempt to engage in black struggles are fairly accurate, at least from the little I've seen of it.

[Body Count]

I'm socially black, or part of the black nation, but don't believe in race as anything more then a social construct. I think an obvious goal of communist should be to shut to chauvanism and ethnocentrism.

If you notice the poll, it 1) Came from an Assata Shakur website, which means its probably a more "Pro-Black" voting group anyways, and 2) Has 34 voters.

But truthfully, I think too much emphasis is placed on this "black on white racism" anyways....I assume this site is mostly for Black Americans and that the poll garnered most of its votes from such, given that, I'd say its important you look at the class, or at least the group structure of this. You are Greek? Not sure if you know much amerikkkan history but it is littered with white amerikkkans hating, killing, raping, oppressing, exploiting, etc etc etc black people (And to an extent, anyone who wasn't a white anglo-saxon protestant or WASP). I feel it matters very little what some individual blacks or even individual whites think of each other......look at the demographics of our society. Did you not see the Katrina incident?

Most of the black on white racism manifest itself in a black person calling a white person a "cracker" or something similar...its a very "open" form of "racism" if you will. I can't say the same about the opposite.

And besides, I consider racism to be more then basic animosity.....it has to have deep roots in a superiority complex or thinking another group is inferior imo.

Regarding "Black Power" and "Black Supremacy", I agree with what BOE said...Black Supremacy hardly exist. Some would make a case for the NoI but even then, they have very little influence on most blacks at this point. The "Black Power" movements of the 60's and 70's were obviously progressive and justified imo....and I feel that we need to bring back some of these aspects (Especiallly regarding self hate and having a positive self image).

[Body Count]

Originally posted by black banner black [email protected] 8 2006, 07:18 AM
Unfortunately, much of their criticisms of whites who attempt to engage in black struggles are fairly accurate, at least from the little I've seen of it.
The only question I've ever really had for whites involed in black struggles is "Would you come home with one?"

We don't need just every sobbing bleeding heart, they have good intentions, but I don't feel they are sincere about even about their own perceptions of black people.

[symtoms_of_humanity]

You say its ok for a black person to call a white person a cracker because "its an open form of racism", well what about a white person calling a black a nigger, or a mexican a spic, its still an open form, yet if its said you get in trouble. In school, black people call whites crackers all the time, yet no punishment, and my friend got fed up and called this kid who kept bugging him on being white a nigger, and he gets sent to pricipal and detentions, what bullshit is that. Its also and "open" form if some person is wearing a swastika on his shirt, or has a racist bands shirt on. When its for Black power its all ok, becuase of slavery.

I would like to say I am not a racist, not at all, just certain things in this country piss me off, such as being PC.

Also, why the fuck are there so many fucking Black History Months, and in music why are they learning African tribal songs, instead of the greats like Mozart, and Bach, and Beethoven(nothing to do with race, it just seems like everyone needs a certain amount of Black culture all the time.

[Body Count]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 07:50 AM
You say its ok for a black person to call a white person a cracker because "its an open form of racism", well what about a white person calling a black a nigger, or a mexican a spic, its still an open form, yet if its said you get in trouble. In school, black people call whites crackers all the time, yet no punishment, and my friend got fed up and called this kid who kept bugging him on being white a nigger, and he gets sent to pricipal and detentions, what bullshit is that. Its also and "open" form if some person is wearing a swastika on his shirt, or has a racist bands shirt on. When its for Black power its all ok, becuase of slavery.

I would like to say I am not a racist, not at all, just certain things in this country piss me off, such as being PC.

Also, why the fuck are there so many fucking Black History Months, and in music why are they learning African tribal songs, instead of the greats like Mozart, and Bach, and Beethoven(nothing to do with race, it just seems like everyone needs a certain amount of Black culture all the time.
:lol:

Sometimes I wonder who on this forum is a communist and who will be the counter-revolutionary who I have to scrape off my shoe.

[Hiero]

Well they are right about white liberals.

[Iroquois Xavier]

we are all fucking human for gods (cough cough) sake! :)

[commiecrusader]

Black racism is just as bad and reprehensible as white racism or any other form of racism. Black power movements have their place in forcing equal rights for blacks, but I think black supremacist movements are very bad indeed, no different to the KKK, although I suppose you could argue that they are just responding and retaliating, but two wrongs don't make a right.

[rioters bloc]

Originally posted by symtoms_of_humanity+Feb 8 2006, 06:50 PM--> (symtoms_of_humanity @ Feb 8 2006, 06:50 PM) When its for Black power its all ok, becuase of slavery. [/b]
well exactly.

because of slavery.

...your point?



oh and by the way, black power is great! extremist black supremacists may not be, but i'm all for black power and for power to any oppressed peoples.



Also, why the fuck are there so many fucking Black History Months, and in music why are they learning African tribal songs, instead of the greats like Mozart, and Bach, and Beethoven(nothing to do with race, it just seems like everyone needs a certain amount of Black culture all the time.

there are so many things with this entire post i really don't know what to say. so for now i'll just say, exactly where do you get off classifying white classical musicians as 'the greats' while completely dismissing African music? your view is clearly to do with race!


Body Count
Sometimes I wonder who on this forum is a communist and who will be the counter-revolutionary who I have to scrape off my shoe

i could not agree more.

[romanm]

The vast majority of the white nation in North America are class enemies and should be treated as such. Most whites are chauvinist pigs who need to be re-educated.

Obviously, members of the white nation who have become nation traitors should be welcomed into the proletarian camp.

Here is a quote from MIM:

"The ideology that race-related terms should never be used is irrelevant in Amerikkkan context, because the oppressor nation formed on the basis of race and there is nothing that can be done about it now before the completion of the stage of history that re-civilizes the oppressor nation under the joint-dictatorship of the proletariat of the oppressed nations (jdpon). To attempt to eliminate the language of the oppressed before we eliminate the language of the oppressor is upside-down. We should only make sure that the oppressed use their language of enemy in the right contexts to accomplish their goals most efficiently and of course, we should oppose anyone who uses an enemy term to refer to a friend."

http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/wim/cong...theory2004.html (http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/wim/cong/languagetheory2004.html)

[romanm]

Sometimes I wonder who on this forum is a communist and who will be the counter-revolutionary who I have to scrape off my shoe.

I am still looking for the communists.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by romanm+Feb 8 2006, 09:41 AM--> (romanm @ Feb 8 2006, 09:41 AM) I am still looking for the communists. [/b]
If by "Communist" you mean "MIM drones" then I fear you won't find any.



Body Count
Sometimes I wonder who on this forum is a communist and who will be the counter-revolutionary who I have to scrape off my shoe.

Body count brings up a very good point here.

It's very common for adolescents to embrace Communism yet completely misunderstand what it actually means to be a Communist.

The kid in question clearly harbours racist feelings towards blacks; no matter how many times he decalres "I'm not racist but...".

[Sentinel]

In school, black people call whites crackers all the time, yet no punishment, and my friend got fed up and called this kid who kept bugging him on being white a nigger, and he gets sent to pricipal and detentions, what bullshit is that. Its also and "open" form if some person is wearing a swastika on his shirt, or has a racist bands shirt on.

What do you propose should be done then in your opinion? Should white supremacism be allowed (the impression one could easily get), or should all kinds of racism be condemned?


When its for Black power its all ok, becuase of slavery.


why the fuck are there so many fucking Black History Months

Do you think historical conditions should be ignored? We all know what that leads to.


and in music why are they learning African tribal songs, instead of the greats like Mozart, and Bach, and Beethoven

Instead? Why not both? Multiculturality must be embraced, in order to harvest the best aspects of all cultures.


it just seems like everyone needs a certain amount of Black culture all the time.

We certainly do. We should not learn about our "own race" in schools. As the saying goes, there is only one race, the human race. And that is a great race indeed!


I would like to say I am not a racist, not at all

You seem to be a very confused individual at least. :( Drop your prejudices as soon as possible for your own sake.

[VonClausewitz]

Black instigated racism is as bad, if not worse, as white instigated racism. I say this because if a white guy is racist, he's racist, and the world goes on. If a black guy is racist, the white-power and other assorted morons get hold of it, and the equal rights causes and all that get rather damanged.

It's not easy to get support from a potentially hostile populace, so being racist will just compound such difficulties.

"Black History Months" These are in place on TV for what I see as two reasons; the obvious PC nonesone, and a good reason; most history we learn is White-orientated, it's nothing to have a few months a year dedicated to things we may otherwise never learn about. They're thus a bloody good idea.


QUOTE
and in music why are they learning African tribal songs, instead of the greats like Mozart, and Bach, and Beethoven


Instead? Why not both? Multiculturality must be embraced, in order to harvest the best aspects of all cultures.

Multi-culturalism if you mean several cultures living together, is a daft idea, look at recent troubles in Europe and indeed the middle-east to prove this point. If you mean multi-culturalism in that people need to learn about other cultures, then fine, we do, nothing wrong with that at all :)


QUOTE
it just seems like everyone needs a certain amount of Black culture all the time.


We certainly do. We should not learn about our "own race" in schools. As the saying goes, there is only one race, the human race. And that is a great race indeed!

Indeed we do, but I think it should be taken willingly, if someone doesn't want to learn about it, they shouldn't have to, they might have different interests. With the world becoming a smaller place, it's easier to unconsciously absorb other cultural tidbits anyway.

I'm curious though, why should people not learn white history in schools ? (I presume that's what you meant). By the time I got out of sixth-form I was sick to death of America civil rights movements and obscure things about ancient India, (we'd had the PC agenda forced down our throats for almost ten years) it was refreshing to study my own ancestry eventually.

[Sentinel]

Multi-culturalism if you mean several cultures living together, is a daft idea, look at recent troubles in Europe and indeed the middle-east to prove this point.

As long as peoples live separeted no progress will certainly happen on this front. Only by living together, and that doesn't mean in the same country but segregated in ghettos and "white neighbourhoods" as in most of european countries, we will conquer racism.


I'm curious though, why should people not learn white history in schools ? (I presume that's what you meant).

Of course I didn't mean that! :o As I said before, the best aspects of every culture must be absorbed by all. You say it should be a "matter of choice", but I think multiculturalism must be taught kids before they have an opinion. It's basic human solidarity.

[bcbm]

I would like to say I am not a racist

Whenever you need to say this after you've just gone on a rant, you should probably go back, re-read your rant and think very long and hard about what you've said and why you suddenly felt the need to express that "I'm not racist, no really!"


In school, black people call whites crackers all the time, yet no punishment, and my friend got fed up and called this kid who kept bugging him on being white a nigger, and he gets sent to pricipal and detentions, what bullshit is that.

So if somebody is racist towards you, do you think the proper response that will help mend the situation is to be racist right back? Your friend is a moron and you don't seem to find anything terribly objectionable about his reaction, only the way the school reacted, which worries me.


When its for Black power its all ok, becuase of slavery.

Black power is not the same as black supremacy. Learn some history.


Also, why the fuck are there so many fucking Black History Months

There is ONE, and it is the shortest month of the year. The rest of the year is spent primarily learning the history of white Europeans, so I think you'll manage. What is your real issue with learning about the history of other people? Why do you object to this? This statement reminds me of that white pride chain letter that was floating around awhile back, I think you should reflect a bit more about this line of thinking.


in music why are they learning African tribal songs, instead of the greats like Mozart, and Bach, and Beethoven

Why aren't African tribal songs "great?" And do they really cut those people out completely, or just attempt to mix in more traditions? I suspect its the latter.


nothing to do with race, it just seems like everyone needs a certain amount of Black culture all the time.

And yet you bring race up in the same sentence. What is wrong with learning about "Black culture," and why do you find it so objectionable?

[Hiero]

"I've never seen a sincere white man, not when it comes to helping black people. Usually things like this are done by white people to benefit themselves. The white man's primary interest is not to elevate the thinking of black people, or to waken black people, or white people either. The white man is interested in the black man only to the extent that the black man is of use to him. The white man's interest is to make money, to exploit." -Malcom X.

Some on that site would losely base their ideology on that quote. We shouldn't jump straight to blaming them as unjustified racist. The quote has alot of truth in it. We can all think of many examples where this has been true, even today White nations invest in African countries and do so claiming to help the poor of whichever African nation the investment has been made. We know the real reason they invest there is because the can make huge profits and only have to pay the comprador bourgeoisie.

This however does not have a racial or in built cultural reason. The reason for this is white people have made profits through expliotation of the Black nation, so the oppressor and thoose who share with the oppressor were always been looking for the best deal they could make with the Black nation rather then sincerely helping national liberation.

Though to assume that all white men are not sincere is to deny that Communist ideology is the correct ideology for the oppressed peoples. A true communist shares the same ideology and goals as the oppressed people. As Romamn said there can be nation traitors.

[Sentinel]

Originally posted by Malcolm X
"I've never seen a sincere white man, not when it comes to helping black people. Usually things like this are done by white people to benefit themselves. The white man's primary interest is not to elevate the thinking of black people, or to waken black people, or white people either. The white man is interested in the black man only to the extent that the black man is of use to him. The white man's interest is to make money, to exploit."

To see how the failure to recognize the role of capitalism as the root of the injustices in society is the reason to this phenomenon; change "white man" to "capitalist" in every sentence of that statement. Then it'll be correct.

That's what racism is about. Misplaced hate.

Didn't Malcolm X later on abandon the black supremacism btw? Why can't these guys follow his example if they still quote him? :angry:

[Zingu]

oh and by the way, black power is great! extremist black supremacists may not be, but i'm all for black power and for power to any oppressed peoples.



Because it alienates whites, as it has done to symtoms_of_humanity, and its frustrating, blacks also have a role to play, a role of responsibility, instead of flaunting in people's faces about slavery, rascism and "Crackas", they have to use black power posivitely, because an otherwise attitude turns to this alienation, and ultimately to rascism. :(

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by The Sentinel+Feb 9 2006, 04:18 AM--> (The Sentinel @ Feb 9 2006, 04:18 AM)
Malcolm X
"I've never seen a sincere white man, not when it comes to helping black people. Usually things like this are done by white people to benefit themselves. The white man's primary interest is not to elevate the thinking of black people, or to waken black people, or white people either. The white man is interested in the black man only to the extent that the black man is of use to him. The white man's interest is to make money, to exploit."

To see how the failure to recognize the role of capitalism as the root of the injustices in society is the reason to this phenomenon; change "white man" to "capitalist" in every sentence of that statement. Then it'll be correct.

That's what racism is about. Misplaced hate.

Didn't Malcolm X later on abandon the black supremacism btw? Why can't these guys follow his example if they still quote him? :angry: [/b]
Exactly, that Malcolm X quote makes me think of the anti-Stemetic slights of Jews all being capitalist blood suckers. It’s completely misplaced and we’ve seen time and time again that blaming capitalism (or its bad characteristics) on a particular ethic groups only serve to sustain capitalism because the working class becomes divided and riddled with infighting.

[Atlas Swallowed]

Racism serves no one but the wealthy that have thier foot on the necks of all. To fight among ourselves over petty matters of race, religion, sexual orientation etc... only makes us easier to control and keep down.

National holidays and black history month are hypocritical coming from the US government as is labor day ;)

[Hiero]

To see how the failure to recognize the role of capitalism as the root of the injustices in society is the reason to this phenomenon; change "white man" to "capitalist" in every sentence of that statement. Then it'll be correct.

That is what Black Nationalism does. The Black liberation movements lead by Malcolm X and later on by the Black Panthers had developed theories on capitalism.

The difference between the labour movement, the communist movement which in the first world is mostly lead by white people and the black liberation movement is the Black revolutionaries have to face the chauvinism of the white nation. The Black Nation in the US has a different history to the labour movement. The Black Nation grew first from slaves, which no white man was a slave, then grew through segregation. They had to face the organising of the white nation to be against the black nation. First they were economically oppressed and secondly the whole US superstructure was against the black nation. So the Black revolutionary has alot more challenges then the White revolutionary.

I'm not saying thoose people from that particular site are righ, or that hate against white people is right. I'm saying these people's ideological roots come from a correct movement.


Because it alienates whites, as it has done to symtoms_of_humanity, and its frustrating, blacks also have a role to play, a role of responsibility, instead of flaunting in people's faces about slavery, rascism and "Crackas", they have to use black power posivitely, because an otherwise attitude turns to this alienation, and ultimately to rascism.

For starters the Black liberation is just that, for Black liberation. They should do it regardless of what Whites think.

Also you talk about just like a white liberal. The black liberation movement, groups like the Black Panthers were positivive.

Your also stepping out of line saying that racism is caused by the actions of black people.


Exactly, that Malcolm X quote makes me think of the anti-Stemetic slights of Jews all being capitalist blood suckers.

You can't compare the two. One was the bourgeoisie creating Fascsism to strengthing the economy. The other is a group of people who have been downtrodden by the white nation.


To fight among ourselves over petty matters of race, religion, sexual orientation etc... only makes us easier to control and keep down.


The Black liberation is the fight of opressed against opressor and anyone who serves the opressor.

[symtoms_of_humanity]

As far as I know its all Tribal songs, and I have nothing wrong with Tribal songs, I think some do sound very interesting and cool, It just upsets me that (as far as I know) all other composers are being ignored. And if there is only one month, then why are there aways so many others, in like spring through summer its what I hear about. And yes you learn to react when you are minding your own business and skateing around and you get harassed by either black or latino people, yet you are told to respect them at all costs. Fuck all your PC bullshit, people will never get along in harmony, becuase people will always fear what is different. I am an accepting person, I do not judge on first glimpse of a person, I get to know them, I will not ignore a black or latin person if we are talking, nor will I simply dismiss them, yet I find it very contradicting when a black person rants on racism, then turns around and uses racist words or insults. Such as in my english class, I was accused of saying something racist which had nothing to do with it because it was from a book we where reading in class, and apparently he didn't read up to that part, and he calls me a racist, then calls me a stupid white cracker, do you not see any hypocrasy there? IF not then thats fucked up. Also when blacks say things about jews, and that jews are the enemy, if you look at what the guy from Public Enemy said, a Black Power, not supremacist band. the KKK are also white power, not supremacist, does that make them ok, no it does not.



As for the comment about scraping me off your boot, what utter bullshit, there will not be a revolution in the U.S. for quite some time, I use the philosophy to make my world, and the ones close to me better, I do the little things to make it better, I don't babble about armed revolution becuase in the U.S. it is quite an impossability for a long long time, so quite the bull.

[bcbm]

As far as I know its all Tribal songs, and I have nothing wrong with Tribal songs, I think some do sound very interesting and cool, It just upsets me that (as far as I know) all other composers are being ignored.

As far as you know? Are you in a music class? What specifically are you even talking about where ALL they learn is African tribal songs?


And if there is only one month, then why are there aways so many others, in like spring through summer its what I hear about.

February is Black History Month in the US. That's it. I don't know what else you're hearing, although I'm curious what would be so terrible about learning a bit about black history for even a few months?


And yes you learn to react when you are minding your own business and skateing around and you get harassed by either black or latino people, yet you are told to respect them at all costs.

So say "Fuck you." and move on your way, as you would with anybody else giving you shit. You can't complain about "black hypocrisy" in regards to racism when you're supporting the same thing.


Fuck all your PC bullshit, people will never get along in harmony, becuase people will always fear what is different.

If believing that all people are equal and that things like racism, sexism, etc do not need to exist is "PC Bullshit," then I don't think a forum for the Revolutionary Left is the place for you. Or maybe it is, since it might help you get past this reactionary nonsense. Divisions like racism are enflamed by those in power to keep us seperate from our brothers and sisters. They are not necessary and there are plenty examples of people who are different getting along perfectly fine. As a matter of fact, they even happen today! Hip-hop especially has been a powerful force in racial unity.


yet I find it very contradicting when a black person rants on racism, then turns around and uses racist words or insults.

Then ask them about it.


if you look at what the guy from Public Enemy said, a Black Power, not supremacist band. the KKK are also white power, not supremacist, does that make them ok, no it does not.

"White power" and "black power" mean very, very different things. And the KKK are white supremacist, I sincerely hope you don't believe the shit they put on these days. I'd suggest getting familiar with the history involved.

[symtoms_of_humanity]

I was talking to my sister, and she was like we are learning African Tribal songs in music, and I said cool, and she was like yea they were are first, but thats all we have done the whole time. We haven't moved on. And I always see things for Black History, and I have nothing wrong with it, history is pretty much my fav. subject, and I'm really good in it. It just gets on my nerves sometimes, I'm not saying its a bad thing to learn, I don't know, yea the white race is really messed up with its ideas, but things like Affermative Action do not help it in any way. It makes whites feel like they are the ones being victamised now, You say things should be equal, yet in colleges minoritys and women are favored over a white male, if the grades for two firemen are the same on the test, and one is black and one is white, then the black man gets the job, even sometimes if there test is lower becasue the department needs a certain minority count each year. Does that sound equal. To me it doesn't.

QUOTE
yet I find it very contradicting when a black person rants on racism, then turns around and uses racist words or insults.



Then ask them about it.


That makes no sense what so ever, ask them about what, tell the person they are being hypocritical, when I don't thinkt his kid knows what it means(not saying it cause black but because he doesn't do shit in any class). And yea the KKK was a very bad example on my part. But tell me how are they so different, its having pride in ones culture. If I where to say I am proud of being white, then I get shit, yet if I was black and said I'm proud to be black, people are like good for you.

And why don't black people stop seeing all white people as dumb,racist, hicks, and at the same time white people should stop the sterotyping of blacks, but neither will do so as long as you have these "power" groups.

[Hiero]

the KKK are also white power, not supremacist, does that make them ok, no it does not.

Don't be so stupid. The KKK have always had a policy of suppressing the Black nation and oppressing the black nation.

Revolutionary people and groups like Marcus Garvy, Malcom X and the Black Panthers never proposed the suppression and oppression of White people. Maybe if you had the ability to do some research you would know this. On another forum the users follow the policy of Mao "No research no right to speak" i wish you would follow the same policy.

Also your little rants on your experince of black kids picking on you has nothing to do with the Black Liberation movement. You can hardly expect the Black youth to be fully educated on Black liberation without a vangaurd party.

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 08:42 AM

Exactly, that Malcolm X quote makes me think of the anti-Stemetic slights of Jews all being capitalist blood suckers.

You can't compare the two. One was the bourgeoisie creating Fascsism to strengthing the economy. The other is a group of people who have been downtrodden by the white nation.

I can, it's two deferent examples of people confusing different forms of oppression i.e. making economic issues a racial one....modern capitalism doesn’t use formal slavery and isn’t based on racial lines but class lines.

[Sentinel]

And yes you learn to react when you are minding your own business and skateing around and you get harassed by either black or latino people, yet you are told to respect them at all costs.

Ok, let's get this straight. If you are defending racism, say it right out so we know where we have you.


Fuck all your PC bullshit, people will never get along in harmony, becuase people will always fear what is different.

Do you know who also speaks like that? "People will never.." "people will always.." "It's human nature to.." The cappies. And it's complete fucking turbobullshit. Ever heard the words progress and evolution?

That's what we communists are into! We don't accept things the way they are, we want something better! That's the core idea of being a communist!


I am an accepting person :lol:


Such as in my english class, I was accused of saying something racist which had nothing to do with it because it was from a book we where reading in class, and apparently he didn't read up to that part, and he calls me a racist, then calls me a stupid white cracker, do you not see any hypocrasy there?

It doesn't matter if you bring up one million (1 000 000) incidents like that. They don't excuse any racism from your part. You are of course allowed to react, and say that you don't accept such behavior.

But not to pay back in the "same way", or start wearing a swastika or in any other way sink to the level of the racists. That's just how it is. And you will enjoy your black history classes. ;)


If I where to say I am proud of being white, then I get shit,

Why would you want to say something so utterly ridiculous?


And why don't black people stop seeing all white people as dumb,racist, hicks,

"Black people" aren't that guy in your class. They are all the black people on earth.
And they don't have common opinions on things, they are individuals. So that statement is kind of stupid, don't you agree? Stop generalising.

[bcbm]

I was talking to my sister, and she was like we are learning African Tribal songs in music, and I said cool, and she was like yea they were are first, but thats all we have done the whole time. We haven't moved on.

How long of a period are we talking about? Might is just be for that unit, or perhaps the class for that level deals with specific types of music? That's fairly common.


And I always see things for Black History, and I have nothing wrong with it, history is pretty much my fav. subject, and I'm really good in it. It just gets on my nerves sometimes, I'm not saying its a bad thing to learn, I don't know

As I said, Black History Month is February. Maybe it is brought up at other times and that is a good thing, since blacks and many others have been almost entirely written out of history.


yea the white race is really messed up with its ideas, but things like Affermative Action do not help it in any way.

Actually, it helps a lot. If AA were removed it would have an extremely negative impact on the enrollment and admissions of minority students while having a negligible impact on whites. That is the reality.


It makes whites feel like they are the ones being victamised now, You say things should be equal, yet in colleges minoritys and women are favored over a white male

Yes, and? You can't make up for hundreds of years of oppression by just saying things should be equal, steps need to be taken to correct that imbalance. The people whining about it are reactionary trash trying to divert attention away from very real racial issues that exist.


if the grades for two firemen are the same on the test, and one is black and one is white, then the black man gets the job, even sometimes if there test is lower becasue the department needs a certain minority count each year. Does that sound equal. To me it doesn't.

Yeah, why should a black with the same score be selected when a WHITE MAN is also applying for the job? <_<


That makes no sense what so ever, ask them about what

Ask them why they are using racist language.


But tell me how are they so different, its having pride in ones culture.

Black pride became prominent because black people have always been made to feel disgraced and less than human for the color of their skin and made to view white standards of beauty, etc as what to strive for (impossibly) and to view their own bodies and traditions and ugly and distasteful. Black pride was a reaction to this to get out the message that being black is beautiful and a good thing.

White pride is a racist reaction to being challenged and knocked from their pedastal.

Do you see the difference?


And why don&#39;t black people stop seeing all white people as dumb,racist, hicks, and at the same time white people should stop the sterotyping of blacks

Maybe you should start with yourself?

[Eoin Dubh]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 04:42 PM
The vast majority of the white nation in North America are class enemies and should be treated as such. Most whites are chauvinist pigs who need to be re-educated.


Strange that "symptoms of humanity&#39;s" post was criticized yet this quote from yours slipped by unchallenged.

This generalization is offensive, racist and divisive. I would say that you could use some re-education. The whites who surround you in your &#39;Loaf of Wonder Bread&#39; suburb are not representative of the majority of whites who suffer under Capitalist austerity living paycheque to paycheque.

[Sentinel]

Originally posted by Eoin Dubh
This generalization is offensive, racist and divisive

You&#39;re right, of course. What&#39;s this "White Nation - Black Nation" crap? We are all human beings. Leftists should be above all division of people in "races".

Blacks have been and are victims of human arrogance and greed, capitalism and imperialism. Not some kind of inherit evil "white" behavior. This must be made clear&#33;

And we must require of all comrades to recognize the fact that "race" is bullshit.

[More Fire for the People]

Racism is not acceptable yet racism of the ethnically oppressed is understandable. For workers and students, ethnicity is a subset of attributes. We are first and foremost workers and students&#33;

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Eoin [email protected] 11 2006, 04:06 PM
Strange that "symptoms of humanity&#39;s" post was criticized yet this quote from yours slipped by unchallenged.
His assessment is a bit over the top, perhaps, but I don&#39;t find it terribly inaccurate. Most whites have a great deal of inground racism, its part of our culture and its a small few who actually attempt to challenge it.


the majority of whites who suffer under Capitast austerity living paycheque to paycheque.

They&#39;re all aware of the complexities of race issues and have taken a leftist position on the issue?

[symtoms_of_humanity]

I have generalised, and I don&#39;t mean too, Yes some of the things I have said are wrong looking back on them, but it is hard for me not to generalise sometimes when all the kids atg my school, and all the ones where I had to live for a while are that way towards me, I say things out of anger somtimes, and realized I messed up, but the AA thing I am against, becuase you want to make things equal by making them unequal, which makes no sense. Never once did I say women should stay home, and Blacks should be slaves, or say anything like that, all I had said was AA does not work, and especially for the poor whites, it turns them away from opeing their views of these people, I&#39;ve seen it, they say blacks and women are taking all the jobs, this then spawns racism. So tell me again how AA is a anti-racist insitution. Also never did I say it should be the WHITE man who gets the job over a BLACK man if they score, but they should make it equal rather than make it automatically the BLACK person, maybe alternate testing or something to really show he deserves it more.


QUOTE
I am an accepting person
laugh.gif

You don&#39;t know me, so why don&#39;t you shut it, and you have never met me, nor will you, so don&#39;t you say what I am or what I am not without knowing how I am in real life.

How long of a period are we talking about? Might is just be for that unit, or perhaps the class for that level deals with specific types of music? That&#39;s fairly common.

It has been all year, we are in the 3rd marking period now. Its not even a big deal with me, just something I found very strange and brough it up. Oh and to defend them as great composers, its maybe because we base all we know of muisc around these men.

QUOTE
If I where to say I am proud of being white, then I get shit,


Why would you want to say something so utterly ridiculous?

What do you think is going on right now?

[rioters bloc]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 05:55 PM
I have generalised, and I don&#39;t mean too, Yes some of the things I have said are wrong looking back on them, but it is hard for me not to generalise sometimes when all the kids atg my school, and all the ones where I had to live for a while are that way towards me, I say things out of anger somtimes, and realized I messed up, but the AA thing I am against, becuase you want to make things equal by making them unequal, which makes no sense. Never once did I say women should stay home, and Blacks should be slaves, or say anything like that, all I had said was AA does not work, and especially for the poor whites, it turns them away from opeing their views of these people, I&#39;ve seen it, they say blacks and women are taking all the jobs, this then spawns racism. So tell me again how AA is a anti-racist insitution. Also never did I say it should be the WHITE man who gets the job over a BLACK man if they score, but they should make it equal rather than make it automatically the BLACK person, maybe alternate testing or something to really show he deserves it more.
so that this thread doesnt get derailed, i&#39;ve started a thread on affirmative action found here (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=77&t=46217) :)

[rioters bloc]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2006, 06:40 AM
And yes you learn to react when you are minding your own business and skateing around and you get harassed by either black or latino people, yet you are told to respect them at all costs. Fuck all your PC bullshit, people will never get along in harmony, becuase people will always fear what is different. I am an accepting person, I do not judge on first glimpse of a person, I get to know them, I will not ignore a black or latin person if we are talking, nor will I simply dismiss them, yet I find it very contradicting when a black person rants on racism, then turns around and uses racist words or insults. Such as in my english class, I was accused of saying something racist which had nothing to do with it because it was from a book we where reading in class, and apparently he didn&#39;t read up to that part, and he calls me a racist, then calls me a stupid white cracker, do you not see any hypocrasy there? IF not then thats fucked up. Also when blacks say things about jews, and that jews are the enemy.

As for the comment about scraping me off your boot, what utter bullshit, there will not be a revolution in the U.S. for quite some time, I use the philosophy to make my world, and the ones close to me better, I do the little things to make it better, I don&#39;t babble about armed revolution becuase in the U.S. it is quite an impossability for a long long time, so quite the bull.
if i were you, i&#39;d be very very wary of judging 75% of the worlds population based on the actions of a few. you can&#39;t claim to not be racist, and then say that &#39;blacks are racist against whites because a black guy called me a cracker and some blacks and latinos harassed me once&#39;.

[pandora]

working with African American students who are being racist against other students of various cultures predominantly Asian and Latino.

Very challenging, one student had to answer to her racist epitats to an Asian adminstrator... she had been bullying smaller Asian students telling them they ate dog. She was let go with a reprimend, and actually has been opening up more to Asian culture since. Has been interesting. She didn&#39;t realize that the area refered to as the Middle East lies between Asia and Africa, seems this has caused her some thought.

Others refuse to participate if it involves any culture other than African-American, including towards Chinese New Year&#39;s festivities. Really frustrating.

And don&#39;t get me started on gang activity between Latinos and African American students. Sometimes I think we&#39;ll never stop hating each other long enough to bring real change to this world.

Internalized oppression spit up like vomit on each other, I understand resistance to the White Man&#39;s market world, but transferring that into hatred towards other groups going through discrimination as well is pitiful.

How to transform this into resistance which is positive for both groups?

[Sentinel]

You don&#39;t know me, so why don&#39;t you shut it, and you have never met me, nor will you, so don&#39;t you say what I am or what I am not without knowing how I am in real life.

Ok, let&#39;s calm down now. I don&#39;t know you, but from your posts I recognize a phenomenon I&#39;m familiar with. And, trust me, despite my sarcastic and bitter tone, I actually want to help you realise something.

I was born and raised in a multicultural suburban ghetto. And if Sweden is anything, it&#39;s "PC" as you call it. When I went to what&#39;s corresponding your Junior High, in the mid nineties, we were told not to be racist, the teachers literally preached tolerance.

What was the response to this necessary, well-meaning effort (because it is necessary, to avoid something really awful)?

Unfortunately, many classmates to me reacted with rebellion, as kids often do. "Why are we supposed to..?"

I&#39;m a second generation immigrant, from Finland, and went to a finnish speaking school class. There I was forced to witness something disgusting.

Being "white", but still "foreigners", many of my confused classmates felt an even stronger urge than some of the swedish working-class racist kids to confirm that they were "better" than the immigrants from other countries, "colored" people and so.

All kinds of "white power", "finn power", and so on bullshit was in the atmosphere. And, unfortunately, some of the by the racist cappie society alienated turkish, latino and arab immigrant kids felt an frustration as well. This led to conflicts, generalisations and racism from all parts. :(

So, guess what I&#39;m trying to say to you, Symtoms of Humanity, is this:

Why fall into that pattern? Why be weak? You are better than that&#33; You have leftist sympathies (I hope) and are on the right path&#33; Tell those racist friends of yours that you don&#39;t accept that crap&#33;

I&#39;m certain that you on some level feel that it&#39;s wrong. And tell the black kids at school the same if it&#39;s needed. No racism allowed from anyone, period&#33;

I know it&#39;s hard but it doesn&#39;t often take more than one person condemning that shit, if he does it in a smart way, and people will realise.

At least everybody with something resembling a brain. And who cares about the few hopeless morons who won&#39;t, anyway.

They&#39;ll be ashamed of themselves, and admit that you&#39;re right. Afterwards, you will be astonished of how easy it was after all. I hope you consider what I&#39;ve said here.

[symtoms_of_humanity]

Thank you Sentinal, I totally see where you are coming from, thats what I did a while ago and actually need to start again, my friend would make aracist remarks but they knew I wouldn&#39;t stand for it, but living in a ghetto predominantly black and latino mademe some what bitter, but and yes I do know its wrong, its just hard not to be pissed off and use race as an excuse sometimes, I try my best, but sometimes I say fuck it. I will try not to generalise black or any people as a whole to the best I can.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by Monty Cantsin+Feb 12 2006, 12:23 AM--> (Monty Cantsin @ Feb 12 2006, 12:23 AM)
[email protected] 10 2006, 08:42 AM

Exactly, that Malcolm X quote makes me think of the anti-Stemetic slights of Jews all being capitalist blood suckers.

You can&#39;t compare the two. One was the bourgeoisie creating Fascsism to strengthing the economy. The other is a group of people who have been downtrodden by the white nation.

I can, it&#39;s two deferent examples of people confusing different forms of oppression i.e. making economic issues a racial one....modern capitalism doesn’t use formal slavery and isn’t based on racial lines but class lines. [/b]
Your wrong. For starters Black people come from slavery, compared to in Europe whites were not slaves of the Jews. When capitalism took off in the south of the US blacks were put into wage slavery. Though Black people got the worse jobs and were segregated, the system was designed to keep Blacks down. Only through Black liberation and civil rights movement did their position improve, the abolishment of segregation as a formal policy of the US. Compare this to Europe where Whites and Jews were not segregated as a formal policy.

So we have the Nazi claim that Jews were oppressing and explioting the "Aryan" compared with the White expliotation of Blacks, which has concert proof. Even today every statistic that we ever see comparing Black people to White people, Black people are over represented in unemployment, aids, crime, imprisionment etc. So you can&#39;t compare the two as cases of people making things up. The facts show that whites were oppressing Black people

When we begin to look at the Black people in the US as a nation we see the White Nation oppressing the Black Nation. So when Black people began their liberation, they found their movement was different to the Labour movements. The Black people found their liberation was going to have to be different then the working movement in the White nation, though the Black Panthers did find allies within the White Nation.

The goals of Black Liberation are summarised by the ten point program of the BPP http://www.blackpanther.org/TenPoint.htm. Your claim that Black Liberation groups were similar to Nazi is not holding up, and your claiming that Black people and oppressed nationalities should not organise is harming and does not help their situation.

[Sentinel]

Symtoms of Humanity:


thats what I did a while ago and actually need to start again


I will try not to generalise black or any people as a whole to the best I can.
Great, comrade. Let&#39;s make this world a better place&#33; :)

Hiero:

What&#39;s your point? We all know that african-americans have been and are oppressed by people who were and are white.

What we are trying to say, though, is that they didn&#39;t/don&#39;t do it because they were/are white.

It happens because of circumstances created by imperialism, colonialism and class society. Wouldn&#39;t it be great of all the oppressed, black and white, realised that and quit dividing the proletariat into the black and the white "nation".

Then we might actually get closer to a revolutionary situation. Racism of all kinds only serves the interests of the ruling class.

Bitterness against whites among blacks is understandable, as in: we know why it exists. But understandable doesn&#39;t equal justified.

[adenoid hynkel]

Having read the whole thread, I reach the conclusion that many of you are, at least, partly tolerant against black supremacism, while you are totally untolerant and hostile against white supremacism. I think that if we want to make any progress, we must realise once and for always, that white and black supremacists are EQUALLY our enemies.

Sentinel you say that "Bitterness against whites among blacks is understandable, as in: we know why it exists. But understandable doesn&#39;t equal justified".

Well it depends. If blacks are oppresed nowadays by white people, if really the average black person in USA or elsewhere, is treated by the state or by society in a worse way than the average white, then yes their bitterness is understandable(not justified).

If their bitterness is caused because their grand-grandparents were enslaved, raped or killed by whites, then NO, their bitteness is neither justified, nor understandable.
I have met very few blacks, but even by surfing in the net, I have understood that some blacks have adopted a very disturbing attitude, to demand reparations for a slavery they did not suffer from( their ancestors suffered from it) and to believe that they are justified to seek revenge from contemporary whites, who are not responsible for their ancestors&#39; enslavement.

Well, now when a non-racist white person who has never harmed a black person, meets these blacks who think that they are justified to treat him like shit, just because he is white, he is alienated from blacks. And when he sees that the Left does not STRONGLY CONDEMN this behaviour, he is alienated from the Left.

I believe that if a leftish has the ambition to recruit white members in the leftish movement, he must, once and for all, make clear to himself and the person he wants to recruit that black supremacism, in the leftish movement, is considered EQUALLY EVIL as white supremacism. No more, no less.

I will say something else. I believe that a white person who tolerates or justifies white supremacism is a stupid, sick bastard. But I believe that a white person who tolerates or justifies this "kill whitey" ideology of the black supremacism is even worse. He is SUICIDAL.

And finally I will repeat the question that I asked in the first post, but nobody answered it. The poll that is presented at the opening post of this thread is REPRESENTATIVE of the entire black population? How many blacks feel as the blacks who voted and posted at this poll? A small minority? A vast majority? Offcourse this question is addressed only to black people, or white people who have many social conducts with black people.

[Eoin Dubh]

Originally posted by adenoid [email protected] 12 2006, 06:35 PM



I believe that if a leftish has the ambition to recruit white members in the leftish movement, he must, once and for all, make clear to himself and the person he wants to recruit that black supremacism, in the leftish movement, is considered EQUALLY EVIL as white supremacism. No more, no less.


I am a lot older than most comrades on this forum.
I have been an activist for most of my life dating back to when my union rep parent brought me to picket lines as a child.

I think you have touched on a problem, adenoid hynkel, that I have been reluctant to bring up for fear of censure.
Well here it is anyway.....

The left can oftentimes push good people away almost as fast as the conditions of Capitalism bring them toward us seeking solutions.

A great example is the subtle double standard of induced white guilt.
Believe me, it is harmful and I have personally witnessed the resultant low morale and dropping out of the movement too many times.
It is painful to see an new activist who is full of energy and optimism become over time, depressed and negative.

Many of you generalize fascists and that is dangerous to do so.
There is actually a wide diversity of opinion amongst them and they are surprisingly tolerant of a (racially exclusive) socialist viewpoint.
Lets not send potential good comrades across to the other side.

I wont speak of this again.
I would hope that you reading this would take some time to reflect about this matter.

[Hiero]

This is getting stupid, where if someone supports the ideology of the Black Panthers or any other Black movement they are accused of being a supporter of Black supremicist. People are even leaning to the point that they are saying that any oppressed nationality can not organise itself.

Would you say to the Black South Africans that they could not organise to overthrow the White oppressors in South Africa? or to tell the Vietnamese that they could not organise and overthrow French and US imperialism?

You follow on from the Liberal line during the era where Black Liberation in the US was common. The liberal line is aimed to remove any power from the Black Nation to organise and defend itself from the White nation.

The claim that Black people should not organise because it puts off White people does not hold ground as well. That is like asking Fidel Castro if he could tone down his attacks on the US because it puts off alot of people in the US from Communism. The right way is to teach the masses in the US the proletariat ideology. When the masses have good grasp of proletarit ideology then they will better understand the movement of the proletariat, such as the Black Liberation movement in the US.

No one is saying that the White nation in the US opresses and has oppressed the Black nation because Whites are just like that. The BPP never proposed this as well. There has been giving much anaylsis to the situation the White nation expliots the Black nation, and how the Black people in the US form a nation. You just choose to ignore this.


A great example is the subtle double standard of induced white guilt.
Believe me, it is harmful and I have personally witnessed the resultant low morale and dropping out of the movement too many times.
It is painful to see an new activist who is full of energy and optimism become over time, depressed and negative.


You only have white guilt if you continue to propose the colonialist mentality and continue to apologise and deny Colonialism, Imperialism and Capitalisms damage to the proletariat of the world.

For instance i have no white guilt for i no longer am guilty of supporting and denying of the damage of colonialism and imperialism. That is why i support National Liberation movements.

If someone leaves the progressive movement because they have "white guilt" they did so because they didn&#39;t have acces to material that explains the Black Liberation movement. Any progressive organisation should have access and teach the correct proletariat ideology.

[Eoin Dubh]

Originally posted by Eoin [email protected] 12 2006, 08:59 PM
I wont speak of this again.
;) Enough said.

[patrickbeverley]

in music why are they learning African tribal songs

Because African tribal songs are cool. As well as being cool, they are the roots of the blues, reggae and jazz, and therefore, by extension, most modern popular music. Why should schoolchildren not learn this?

[dusk]

For now this it&#39;s a discussion, that will go on for a few decades.
But I hope for the day that this discussion is&#39;nt necessary anymore.
but I fear that the racial differences always excist.

[[email protected]]

WE ARE ALL ONE RACE.
THE HUMAN RACE
RACISM IS JUST ANOTHER
DIVIDER OF MANKIND..
JUST LIKE BORDERS AND SOCIAL CLASSES.

[Craig]

Why is so hard to convince all you privileged white males that racism means more than having to settle for your 2nd choice when picking a university?

You enjoy a society built on the backs of an entire race of people who were enslaved and treated as property&#33; They were not simply called nasty names. They were stripped of their humanity by the oppressive power of the state.

When you call affirmative action "racism," you&#39;re just exposing your own pathetic ignorance of what racism really is.

Here are some examples that might help you:

1. Passing a Constitional Ammendment declaring that a black man is only three-fifths of a human? RACISM.

2. Recognizing that years of oppressive laws have left black society in poverty and seeking out ways to correct this problem? NOT RACISM.

3. Hanging a black man from a tree because he whistled at a white girl? RACISM.

4. Destroying the white monopoly on education by demanding that publicly-funded universities represent all races fairly? NOT RACISM.

5. A black kid calling your racist ass a cracker? NOT RACISM.

6. When you complain about how blacks are getting all the good jobs because of affirmative action? RACISM.

-Craig

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

Can i just ask, in my naivety ive never heard of white people being called cracker? where does it come from? what does it mean?
I have never heard it before, other than actual crackers, that you eat with cheese and stuff.

Overall though, racism towards whites, is still minute compared to what blacks, arabs and others face.

[Craig]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 12:19 AM
Can i just ask, in my naivety ive never heard of white people being called cracker? where does it come from? what does it mean?
I have never heard it before, other than actual crackers, that you eat with cheese and stuff.

That&#39;s too funny. It&#39;s pretty common here in the good ol&#39; US of A.

Here&#39;s what wikipedia has to say about it:

As an insult, "cracker" was and is used most frequently in the South, especially in Georgia and Florida. One of the traditional nicknames for Georgia is "The Cracker State".

It is invoked typically against poor, white Americans without formal education and of rural backgrounds. However, today the term is sometimes used as a racial epithet against white people throughout the U.S., regardless of socio-economic status, ethnicity or geographic origins.

Usage of the term "cracker" generally differs from "hick" and "hillbilly" because crackers reject or resist assimilation into the dominant culture, while hicks and hillbillies theoretically are isolated from the dominant culture. In this way, the cracker is similar to the redneck.

In recent years (as of 2006), the term has gained some currency as a proud or jocular self-description. With the huge influx of new residents from the North, the term "cracker" is now used informally by some white residents of Florida and Georgia ("Florida cracker" or "Georgia cracker") to indicate that their family has lived there for many generations.

However, the term "white cracker" is usually not used self-referentially and remains an offensive ethnic slur...

Read more (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_cracker)


-Craig

[Oh-Dae-Su]

a black guy makes fun of white people , he is called a comedian, a white guy makes fun of black people, he is called a racist. If anyone here believes this is a trade off? for having been slaves, that is one of the most ridiculous assumptions. Did you know that black people became slaves by their own race? we didn&#39;t go into Africa and &#39;enslave" them, in fact we just traded them with the ruling power of the African country; even before that Arab Muslims had been on the slave trade for centuries, why do you think there is such a majority of Muslims in countries like Nigeria and other west African countries.

I deal with black people all the time, and iv iv dealt with black people all my life. In America is where it seems to be the difference. Black Americans are the only racist blacks iv ever met or encountered in my life. I was born in Cuba, and society was inegrated, no such thing as racism, and the openess was amazing, without confrontations at all, i could call my black friend, hey NEGRO, and it&#39;s all good. Here , there is such an issue, every time i go into a black neighberhood, everybody stares at me, im like WHAT THE FUCK? most are nice, iv encountered very little racism, iv never been called a cracker or anything. But sometimes i get those looks, like when i was trying to change lanes, i made signs to a black guy to see if he could let me pass, and he just didn&#39;t even move, just stared at me, without giving a single expression, you see those are the things that make you wanna say racist stuff, i know deep inside i did, but i guess that&#39;s only natural, im 100% sure this happens to us all the time, not just against blacks but against any group whom we have a bad experience with. But the good thing is, that i know im not racist at all, and i always realize that i should not generalize, because im not ignorant, iv lived amongst black people all my life, and most Black Americans are very nice to me , that reasures me that i should not be shaken by any racism.

by the way, i doesn&#39;t surprise me that there is black hate websites or whatever, after all there is white hate. I do not sympathize with the Black hate or racism, it would be the same as sympathizing with the KKK, but after all it&#39;s a free country, and liberty of expression.

[Hampton]

But the good thing is, that i know im not racist at all, and i always realize that i should not generalize, because im not ignorant, iv lived amongst black people all my life, and most Black Americans are very nice to me , that reasures me that i should not be shaken by any racism.

I&#39;m not racist but....


I deal with black people all the time, and iv iv dealt with black people all my life.

You deal with black people and live amongst them all your life, congrats&#33;


Here , there is such an issue, every time i go into a black neighberhood, everybody stares at me, im like WHAT THE FUCK?

Like it does not happen when a black person walks through a white area? If you are going to complain about one, mention the other. I can understand because it does not happen to you, but I&#39;m sure you don&#39;t get pulled over by black cops when you travel through these "black areas." I&#39;m sure the black guy or gal is saying the exact same thing, or they might be used to it. But, if you life amongst them all your life, do you live in a "black neighborhood?"


But sometimes i get those looks, like when i was trying to change lanes, i made signs to a black guy to see if he could let me pass, and he just didn&#39;t even move, just stared at me, without giving a single expression

He MUST have done it because of your skin color&#33;


Did you know that black people became slaves by their own race? we didn&#39;t go into Africa and &#39;enslave" them, in fact we just traded them with the ruling power of the African country

Most? Getthefuckouttahere. Most became slaves through being captured, the prisoners of war in Africa that were sold only make up a very small percentage of those who became slaves. Some white people were slaves also, what&#39;s up with those crazy Europeans?


Black Americans are the only racist blacks iv ever met or encountered in my life. I was born in Cuba, and society was inegrated, no such thing as racism, and the openess was amazing, without confrontations at all, i could call my black friend, hey NEGRO, and it&#39;s all good.

Use your brain, black relations in America compared to Cuba are very diffrent and have a very diffrent. If you think that you can call a black man or woman a negro now, you must have no idea of race relations in America, which even though being born in Cuba I would think if you attended one year of schooling in America you would have a little idea about. Negro has a large and disturbing historical context that carries the weight of millions of dead Africans that were brought over. Negro is a degrading term and I would slap the person who honestly called me that.

Black Americans may be racist but, can you blame some of them with all of the history that they have had in this country? The fact that we have never had a complete revolution based on the fact that this country does not really like black people, never have and might never will, is amazing. So yes, maybe some are hostile because they have had no posative contact with white people, the same occurs with whites who have never had a good experience with a black person. They have been sheltered and therefore are ignorant because of it.

Having to "deal with them" I thought that would have been obvious.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

I&#39;m not racist but....

i guess same applies to you&#33; ;)



You deal with black people and live amongst them all your life, congrats&#33;
ohhhhk? :blink:



Like it does not happen when a black person walks through a white area? If you are going to complain about one, mention the other. I can understand because it does not happen to you, but I&#39;m sure you don&#39;t get pulled over by black cops when you travel through these "black areas." I&#39;m sure the black guy or gal is saying the exact same thing, or they might be used to it. But, if you life amongst them all your life, do you live in a "black neighborhood

im sure it does, but not as it happens in the balck neighberhood. The white guys might look, but not STARE&#33; is if he wants to pick a fight with you, that is why im like WTF? i have no problem with people LOOKING at me, i mean there is nothing wrong with that, but STARES&#33; all the times, you can&#39;t tell me that happens to black people when they go to white neighberhoods, well, i mean technically im sure it does, but trust me it&#39;s not the same.



He MUST have done it because of your skin color&#33;

well, lets see , how many possibilities can there be? because he saw i had sun glasses on? because he saw my car was blue? and so on and so on&#33;&#33;? :rolleyes: get real here....if a white guy did the same thing to you in a white neighberhood, you think it wasn&#39;t because of your skin color? get real man&#33;



Most? Getthefuckouttahere. Most became slaves through being captured, the prisoners of war in Africa that were sold only make up a very small percentage of those who became slaves. Some white people were slaves also, what&#39;s up with those crazy Europeans?

umm? so tell me how the other LAARGE majority became slaves? Europeans in Africa captured them? well, to tell you the truth im not 100% sure on the issue.. :D


Use your brain, black relations in America compared to Cuba are very diffrent and have a very diffrent.

no shit, but i don&#39;t see the jews being hateful to the germans? Martin Luther King did great things, and since him, black americans have gotten more and more integrated into white anglo society, you can&#39;t say there is repression or the racism there was back in the 60&#39;s or whatever. Slavery has been over for 100+ years, Civil Right&#39;s Movement has been over for 40 years, blacks have obtained what they were fighting for, so why can&#39;t you get over it? i mean, im not generalizing, like i said, i would say 95% of the blacks i encounter are nice not racist at all with me, and i am 100% like that back to them, but still 100% i get the looks, as if i don&#39;t belong there, i just don&#39;t get it, and im sure it is something in the black society, because for everyone to do it to me it&#39;s something wierd. Im sure, many black people are concious in the back of their mind, "DONT TRUST THE WHITE MAN", and i believe , this is a wrong negative attitude.


Negro is a degrading term and I would slap the person who honestly called me that.

about the word NEGRO, look it up, it is the spanish word for black, do i have the responsability that anglo americans used it as a derogatory term against the blacks here? NO&#33; if im talking to somebody in spanish and i use the word negro, and there was a black next to me, im sure he would feel like im saying shit about him, but no. Plus Negro, shouldnt be a derogatory term, nigger is the derogatory word. Ever heard of the UNITED NEGRO FUND&#33; and other institutions that carry the name? your just being too sensitive, that is what i find sometimes wrong. Are whites sensitive of being called CAUCASIAN? :blink: Negro is just the name of your race, your Negroid, Asians are Mongoloid, whites are Caucasian, so why are you so sensitive, because your ancestors were enslaved? well guess what , your not the only one, i don&#39;t see the Jews being angry if i call them a jew...AND GENOCIDE WAS COMMITTED AGAINST THEM&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; GENOCIDE&#33;&#33;&#33; know what that means&#33;&#33;&#33;?


Black Americans may be racist but, can you blame some of them with all of the history that they have had in this country?

so, is that justifiable? are Indians racist against the British? are Phillipinos racist against the Spaniards? you make no sense, this was just a historical event, and not the only one, and like every other one, get over it, it is done, over, and racism will always exist, but black people in America grow each day with power and more social acceptance by the white community...


So yes, maybe some are hostile because they have had no posative contact with white people, the same occurs with whites who have never had a good experience with a black person. They have been sheltered and therefore are ignorant because of it

thankfully we agree on that, the fact is, racism will always exist, between groups of people, really a disaster state of being for human beings, we should celebrate our difference, but many like you mentioned are ignorant. It&#39;s like being with an ugly Asian woman, and saying all Asian woman are ugly&#33; lol

Hampton, i know you must feel like there is some sort of rage inside of you because things that might have happened to your ancestors. But , like i said, look at history, not the only one. Hate should not rule over someone, like i said, for example, i got a little mad when i was under what i felt was a racist look, yet i never let rage overcome me, i know this is only ignorant few, and i never harbor any hate or racism for that matter, i know everybody is not the same, and people of my own culture and racial background have been racist, and i know for sure i don&#39;t want to pay for some ignorant fool of my same cultural and racial background.

thank you

[Hampton]

i guess same applies to you&#33;

Where&#39;s your proof?


im sure it does, but not as it happens in the balck neighberhood

You are insane. Ever hear of racial profiling? You don&#39;t hear it applying to black dudes staring at white people and that is because, unlike the police, they probally won&#39;t hassle you. But, it is a well known and proven fact that they are stopped in aears because of their skin color. Can you compare the two? No.


umm? so tell me how the other LAARGE majority became slaves? Europeans in Africa captured them? well, to tell you the truth im not 100% sure on the issue..

Read a book on the subject please. I&#39;d love to find a sensible book that said the majoirty of Africans who came to America came here through being sold from other Africans. It just did not happen. And that stupid smiley face proves that you wish to remian ignorant about that fact.


no shit, but i don&#39;t see the jews being hateful to the germans? Martin Luther King did great things, and since him, black americans have gotten more and more integrated into white anglo society, you can&#39;t say there is repression or the racism there was back in the 60&#39;s or whatever. Slavery has been over for 100+ years, Civil Right&#39;s Movement has been over for 40 years, blacks have obtained what they were fighting for, so why can&#39;t you get over it?

There is nothing to "get over" because it is still happening and the effects of those things can still be felt today&#33; The jews are still not being oppressed by their government, two million jews are not in German prisons today, unlike the two million blacks in America&#39;s jails. You can&#39;t compare the two because they are two totally diffrent scenarios.

What exactly were those blacks fighting for? Was it to be integrated into Anglo society? Doesn&#39;t that presume that they wanted to be white then if their wish was to be totally assimilated into white society? No, no, and no. Get real please.


Plus Negro, shouldnt be a derogatory term, nigger is the derogatory word. Ever heard of the UNITED NEGRO FUND&#33; and other institutions that carry the name? your just being too sensitive, that is what i find sometimes wrong. Are whites sensitive of being called CAUCASIAN? Negro is just the name of your race, your Negroid, Asians are Mongoloid, whites are Caucasian, so why are you so sensitive, because your ancestors were enslaved?

The United Negro College Fund was founded during a time when negro was the commonly asscepted term for blacks. Just like the NAACP, Association for Colored People. It&#39;s a dated term and they keep it to show that they have been around for decaded.

It&#39;s not being too sensative, and any person who says that has no idea what it means to carrying the weight of 400 years on their shoulders which many African Americans have to do every day. The word Negro and Caucasian, in America, do not carry the same historical signifigance. One comes from the people in power, the other does not. It&#39;s not the same thing. Do you honestly call people Caucasian? Do you honestly call people Negro?

And why are you hung up on it? Because you need to feel in a posation of power and impose your label on a people when they have chosen not to accept it anymore. Why is it even an issue for you? Call people what they want to be called, not what you want or feel like.


why are you so sensitive, because your ancestors were enslaved? well guess what , your not the only one, i don&#39;t see the Jews being angry if i call them a jew...AND GENOCIDE WAS COMMITTED AGAINST THEM&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; GENOCIDE&#33;&#33;&#33; know what that means&#33;&#33;&#33;?

Did a genocide not occur to Africans?


Hampton, i know you must feel like there is some sort of rage inside of you because things that might have happened to your ancestors.

Thanks for the diagonsis Doctor.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

Where&#39;s your proof?

where is your proof? are you meaning to tell me that you have never felt racist feelings inside of you? ohh please, thats like someone saying IM AN ANGEL, iv never stolen anything in my life or iv never cheated in a test&#33; :rolleyes:


You are insane. Ever hear of racial profiling? You don&#39;t hear it applying to black dudes staring at white people and that is because, unlike the police, they probally won&#39;t hassle you. But, it is a well known and proven fact that they are stopped in aears because of their skin color. Can you compare the two? No.

im sure thats true, blacks have endured many things. But, your meaning to tell me that black people commit less violence or things that should get you arrested for, than white/hispanics/asians and all the other groups in America? yeah right man, i will give you the fact, that since that is the case, profiling is used against blacks, which is wrong, but the truth is that blacks do commit more punishable acts than all other groups in America. So, if a black guy does something wrong, it&#39;s profiling?


Read a book on the subject please. I&#39;d love to find a sensible book that said the majoirty of Africans who came to America came here through being sold from other Africans. It just did not happen. And that stupid smiley face proves that you wish to remian ignorant about that fact.

how about actually giving me valid data? how about citing which book your talking about, how about giving me sources which say the % of blacks traded from Africans , and those who were "captured" by whites.



There is nothing to "get over" because it is still happening and the effects of those things can still be felt today&#33; The jews are still not being oppressed by their government, two million jews are not in German prisons today, unlike the two million blacks in America&#39;s jails. You can&#39;t compare the two because they are two totally diffrent scenarios.

What exactly were those blacks fighting for? Was it to be integrated into Anglo society? Doesn&#39;t that presume that they wanted to be white then if their wish was to be totally assimilated into white society? No, no, and no. Get real please.

that is some bull, your meaning to tell me that MLK did not change anything? that since the Civil Rights Movement things have not turned for the good for the black people in a scale of 360? c&#39;mon man..and if a Jew was in a German prision he was profiled right? so your argument is that because blacks make the majority of the people in jail in America, that&#39;s profiling and the white people are racist? and are have a conspiracy against balcks? c&#39;mon man you know thats not true. Although im sure, most of those old white guys in Washington, are probably a bit racist, but the fact of the matter is that both the whit and the black society under the circumstances of American history, have been conditioned to have bigotry against eachother, BUT, right now, our generation has been changing, and less and less is our society being conditioned with bigotry, intead i see more integration, more acceptance, and this is a sign that ignorance at least at that level is not being accepted anymore by the majority of the people. So, yes&#33;&#33; get over it&#33;&#33;

about negro, your right, i never use the word, or caucasian for that matter, it&#39;s not like i go yeah he is a caucasian guy , i use black or white, but i still do not accept there is something wrong with the word , negro. It simply means black in my native language.



Did a genocide not occur to Africans?


:blink: WHAT&#33;&#33;&#33; What are you smoking man&#33;&#33;&#33; you have to be kidding me&#33;&#33; now genocide was commited to the African Americans as well? ohh man, you know what "genocide" means?? are you meaning to tell me, that African slaves were brought to America, and once they got here, they were lined up, and slaughtered because of their skin color? and that 80% + of the African population brought to America was dealt with that ordeal? if you believe that, than im done with this conversation, you would defenitaly be one of those black militants, who is just impossible to talk sense into.d

[patrickbeverley]

Black-on-white racism is wrong and anti-progressive just like white-on-black racism, and I hate both.

But black-on-white racism is infinitely more understandable.

However wrong, it is human nature to generalise by race. We try to suppress that instinct, but how much harder is it to suppress the instinct to racism if the representatives of a race (ie white) have oppressed your race (ie black) for centuries?

And I&#39;m white, by the way, so don&#39;t you fucking dare call me a black-on-white racist (and anyone trying to tell me I must be racist because I&#39;m white can piss off, too).

[Kia]

Im curious to know if anyone has an idea of what "Black-on-White" racism is like in African countries? Is it the same as America? or France? or are they accepting?

Black-on-White racism is just as harmful in working towards international equality as is White-on-Black racism. One could justify it by saying that the "Black" people have been treated TERRIBLY by "white" people for many centuries; which is true. But justifying it is no good. Just because someone harms you doesnt mean you turn around and do it right back. The "eye" for an "eye" principle is completely ridiculous. Instead, both sides should and MUST reduce the amount of racial tension between them, especially in America.

Also, there is something extremely wrong with the american justice system if 1 in 3 blacks between the ages of 15-25 has or is in prison in america...equality needs to catch up big time.

(for racial note: Im about as WHITE as it gets, 1 step above being albino...and if anyone ever says whites are superior to black people based on skin...slap them silly....try standing out in the sun for an hour with my skin.....and youll realize its not too fun at all...SUN BURNS GALORE. :blush:

[Disciple of Prometheus]

The problem with black against white racism, is that no one wants to point out that it is racist. Society now tries to portray these certain people as "empowered," yet they are no different then those sheet-wearing fools. People need to realize what a color-blind society should be; meaning that if a black man doesn&#39;t get a job on his own merits, then he doesn&#39;t get the job to make the company more diverse, and if a white man doesn&#39;t get the job on his own merits, he shouldn&#39;t get the job for that reason either, it shouldn&#39;t matter what the color of the skin is, it should matter what the individuals merits are. Also as a white guy, I feel a lot more frustration than those who aren&#39;t a white male. I have to watch ever single word that comes out of my mouth in public, because if I don&#39;t bam&#33; I could instantly become a racist. If I make certain jokes that a black person could make, I&#39;m called a racist, when they said the same thing. Equality is a double edge sword, you can&#39;t preach equality of the races, then beat the other race into political correct submission. Furthermore all these "black power," groups, and ALL the "race power," groups should recognized for what they are, racist, regardless of what race it is.

It is one thing, to fight for liberation, under the clear signs of unfair oppression like the people back during the civil rights movment, it is something else entirely when you go searching for oppression just to get a better deal, when oppression is not present.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

Disciple of Prometheus i agree with you 100%, it&#39;s as if you were inside my head thinking the same thing, thanks for making those points.

[Invader Zim]

I&#39;m curious though, why should people not learn white history in schools ? (I presume that&#39;s what you meant). By the time I got out of sixth-form I was sick to death of America civil rights movements and obscure things about ancient India, (we&#39;d had the PC agenda forced down our throats for almost ten years) it was refreshing to study my own ancestry eventually.

As a full time student of history I have spent a considerable amount of time studing both. Personally I prefer to avoid the issue of slavery and discrimination because I find my self disgusted by it as well as some what bored by it. By the same token, I do not like studing the holacaust or the second world war, both are deaply unpleasant or boring.

However, I am probably unique in that respect. The most interesting thing I have studied is Medieval literature, which everybody else on the module thought was exceptionally dull.

[Zero]

I haven&#39;t read even half of a page of replys to this topic, nor am I going to. Mainly because I&#39;m an Amerikkkan lazy slob.

Anyway, I find it funny when people pull up the "Well what about Black people calling White people crackers?"

You know, when your race was enslaved by another, yeah, sure. Then you can get away with it. We only brought them over here to be tortured, and forced to do manual labor, and in quite a few cases killed in very grotesque ways. I don&#39;t give a fuck when Black people call me a cracker, but I&#39;d beat the shit out of anyone who called a Black guy a nigger.

EDIT: yeah, also I&#39;m a white trash nerd from Northwestern USA. And I know that racism in all corners will need to be educated through Socialism before we finaly reach Communist state, and I am just as against Black on White racism as White on Black racism... and Craig. I thought the insult Cracker came from the Plantations... as all the white people had whips and stuff. :huh: