The internet?

[raving]

I am currently writing an essay on the internet, and it would extremely good to get some feedback from you.

What is your opinion on the internet, do you consider it a an element that has made our life better, or worse?

[dannie]

don't think it has made it better, nor worse, just easier,
it's a relativly anonimous medium with shitloads of information, instead of going to the library in the hopes they have what you are looking for, you just have to log on, search for ten minutes and you got al the information you want.
I don't feel like my life is better or i'm happier since I can acces the net.

[which doctor]

I think it has greatly improved living standards all over the world. Small, rural towns are no able to be connected to the information world. Doctors can use it to perform surgeries half way around the world. Normal, everyday citizens can become journalists have their opinion broadcasted all around the world. Enormous amounts of information are at your fingertips. It is impossible to catalog all the information on the internet there is so much. It has enabled people like us to share our thoughts with like-minded people all around the world.

I give the internet two thumbs up!

[Hegemonicretribution]

I am in full support of the freer exhange of ideas that the internet allows. I do however think that it is a shame that this is manipulated by corporations, and this greatly reduces the overall experience and worth of the net.

It used to be easy to search for somethin online, now many search engines with give links to products. Apart from chat and porn a lot of what is out there now is relatively innacessable, at least unless you know what you are doing.

I just hope that the internet retains an air of freedom.

[Publius]

I am in full support of the freer exhange of ideas that the internet allows. I do however think that it is a shame that this is manipulated by corporations, and this greatly reduces the overall experience and worth of the net.

It used to be easy to search for somethin online, now many search engines with give links to products. Apart from chat and porn a lot of what is out there now is relatively innacessable, at least unless you know what you are doing.

I just hope that the internet retains an air of freedom.

Enter Freenet: http://freenet.sourceforge.net/

[broken]

No one has touched on this idea yet.

The Internet has several major flaws, all of which could lead to disasters, social, political or economic.

The first flaw is the influence the Internet is having and will continue to have on social skills and social behavior. Communication skills will continue to wane as long as IM, email and other technologies continue to proliferate. For the first time, an entire generation is coming of age that was raised on these technologies and as the reins of business, government and, yes, radical revolutionary movements throughout the world are taken by this next generation the implications could have far reaching effects, which are yet to be known.

The second flaw is simply in the amount of information readily available. There is the age-old "how much of the information on the web is credible" question. But not just that. As search algorithms become more complex, content personalization will become increasingly common and easier. This serves to actually limit the infromation a person is reading, making it easier for those in power to propagandize. Current media conglomeration has already made this possiblity a reality. In this case, the fewer the gatekeepers, the easier it is to guard the gate.

The third big problem the Internet presents deals with privacy. As we have all seen it is too easy for information to be gathered on us, for the government to circumvent the law and violate rights many Americans assumed were untouchable. The amount of information being catalogued about you just when you use Google is alarming enough. But don't think that corporate exploitation is the only use for this information. Corporations that become as large and wealthy as Google invariably wield significant power in other arenas. Privacy on the web should be a major concern for all of us, leftist or not.

[LSD]

Communication skills will continue to wane as long as IM, email and other technologies continue to proliferate.

And you base this prediction on ...what?

I have seen no evidence that "communication skills" are "waning", merely that they are changing to match the changing nature of contemporary communication.

The invention of the telegram didn't mean that people forgot how to write in full sentences and the invention of the telephone didn't mean that people stopped meeting in person.

All societies are in constant states of change, that's not a "flaw", it's just life.


For the first time, an entire generation is coming of age that was raised on these technologies and as the reins of business, government and, yes, radical revolutionary movements throughout the world are taken by this next generation the implications could have far reaching effects, which are yet to be known.

Then how can you assert that they will be negative?

If anything, I would propose that the access to information and communication offered by the internet will make the next generation more able to successfuly mount a revolution.

The problem with proletarian radicalization has never been "power", the workers have always been in a position to exert control, rather it has largely been about understanding.

For most workers in the world today, while they may not like their particular jobs, they generally believe in the system as a whole.

That state of affairs, however, cannot persist. As more and more information is avaialble regarding the true nature of capitalism and realistic alternatives, it cannot help but to increase cynicism and radicalization.

The internet will not "cause a revolution", but it will almost certainly help.

Remember, the bourgeois could not have risen to power without the revolutionary communication technology of that -- the printing press.

It would not be wholly surprising, if the same turns out to be true for the advanced proletariat.


The second flaw is simply in the amount of information readily available.

That's not a flaw in any sense of the word!

An overabundance of information accopmlishes two main things, both of them positive.

Firstly, it, rather obviously, increases information which is always benneficial. The more people know, the more they understand. From a revolutionary left perspective, it is decidedly in our interest to increase proletarian understanding!

The second thing that it does is, as you started to mention, increase distrust and skepticism about everything.

Some, mostly the "old guard" conservatives, view this as a negative. But that is mainly because they realize that it will hurt them the most.

The less people are "trusting" and the less they take on "faith", the more they will want to know based on evidence. They will demand rational and objectively verifiable answers, and will not settle for the lies and propaganda that pass as facts today.


As search algorithms become more complex, content personalization will become increasingly common and easier. This serves to actually limit the infromation a person is reading, making it easier for those in power to propagandize.

Those in power are already able to propagandize quite effectively. Indeed, they've had that ability for quite some time.

The internet doesn't significantly increase that ability, considering how effective the rulling class has shown itself to be in the past, but it does allow a great deal more "unconventional" communication to occur.

People are now able to communicate through "unofficial" channels (like, say, this board) in a way that has never been possible before.

Yeah, we have to wade through a lot of crap on the net, but then we've always had to wade through crap. At least now we're getting something out of it!


The third big problem the Internet presents deals with privacy.

Unfortunately, that is true. The internet is being exploited to further the interests of capitalism and corporatism, but that's the nature of any new technology.

When the printing press was first invented 600 years ago, the first books to be printed were copies of the Bible.

In the end, though, printing showed itself to be, ultimately, a tool of progress and revolution as it ushered in the end of mainstream feudalism and the rise of early capitalism.

Although the internet is, likewise, mired in the era in which it was born, it will too almost certainly prove itself to be an ultimately progressive influence.

In the meantime, there are numerous ways to protect your privacy and secure your data. No one can be 100% certain that they are secure, of course, but you can definitely increase your odds.

In any case, these "flaws" of the internet clearly pale in comparison to its obvious benenfits.

[Publius]

The third big problem the Internet presents deals with privacy. As we have all seen it is too easy for information to be gathered on us, for the government to circumvent the law and violate rights many Americans assumed were untouchable. The amount of information being catalogued about you just when you use Google is alarming enough. But don't think that corporate exploitation is the only use for this information. Corporations that become as large and wealthy as Google invariably wield significant power in other arenas. Privacy on the web should be a major concern for all of us, leftist or not.


Read all the posts in the thread before responding, please.

Freenet is perfectly secure.

The Feds can't nab shit on you.

With the propogation of wireless internet, proxies, encryption, darknets, etc. the internet is becoming more secure all the time.

There are innumerable ways to send data securely, easily.

SSH for instance.

[RNK]

I'd say it has made life better, but I'd also say it's good AND bad.

It has given people like us the chance to come to a place like this and exchange ideas, conversation, etc.

On the other hand, there are plenty of Facist, racist, hate-mongering and war-mongering people out there who also use the internet to gather and exchange and flourish in their own ideas.

[broken]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 12:29 AM


Read all the posts in the thread before responding, please.

Freenet is perfectly secure.

The Feds can't nab shit on you.

With the propogation of wireless internet, proxies, encryption, darknets, etc. the internet is becoming more secure all the time.

There are innumerable ways to send data securely, easily.

SSH for instance.
Yeah, yeah. I read your post. Most average people aren't using that shit, most people don't even know about it.

[broken]

PUblius said:


Communication skills will continue to wane as long as IM, email and other technologies continue to proliferate.

And you base this prediction on ...what?

I have seen no evidence that "communication skills" are "waning", merely that they are changing to match the changing nature of contemporary communication.

The invention of the telegram didn't mean that people forgot how to write in full sentences and the invention of the telephone didn't mean that people stopped meeting in person.

Publius said:
All societies are in constant states of change, that's not a "flaw", it's just life.

Person to person skills are waning. I used to work in the media and I saw it everyday, the inability to expound in words whatever critical thoughts are going through one's head. I saw it a lot. So the prediction is based on personal observation and interaction. I didn't say it was true. Just my opinion.

Publius said:


For the first time, an entire generation is coming of age that was raised on these technologies and as the reins of business, government and, yes, radical revolutionary movements throughout the world are taken by this next generation the implications could have far reaching effects, which are yet to be known.

Then how can you assert that they will be negative?

I digress. I cannot, but it should be of concern as the outcome could be good or bad. Maybe not so much a flaw as an unknown.

Publius said:


The second flaw is simply in the amount of information readily available.

That's not a flaw in any sense of the word!

It is if the masses believe every piece of nonsense they read, hear or see. Perhaps I underestimate the level that Americans think on but overall I don't think so.

Publius said:

In any case, these "flaws" of the internet clearly pale in comparison to its obvious benenfits.

Perhaps, but there are good and bad points to everything. It'll make raving's essay better anyway. Just some thoughts.

[Publius]

Yeah, yeah. I read your post. Most average people aren't using that shit, most people don't even know about it.

Most 'average' people don't have anything to hide.

If they need or want the security, its there for their use.

Although everyone should encrypt e-mails, for example, as a basic precauation.

[Floyce White]

The Internet, video games, video tapes: no different from watching TV or sitting in front of a radio. It's like leaving your doorstep and getting into a car or bus. Makes you fat and anxious.

Wikipedia is a disreputable source of information, but it's cited here all the time. The Internet is a fun-house hall of mirrors. I place absolutely no credibility in political sites that have no relation to the activism of known persons.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

Originally posted by Floyce [email protected] 15 2006, 01:07 AM
The Internet, video games, video tapes: no different from watching TV or sitting in front of a radio. It's like leaving your doorstep and getting into a car or bus. Makes you fat and anxious.

Wikipedia is a disreputable source of information, but it's cited here all the time. The Internet is a fun-house hall of mirrors. I place absolutely no credibility in political sites that have no relation to the activism of known persons.
So true. Especially with wikipedia.

The United States page in wikipedia has been trashed so much, wikipedia has put a stop on all editing in that page. Many others have the same stop because of trashing. Like popular soccer teams, guerrilla groups, etc.

[encephalon]

the feds can nab shit on you with freenet, it's just infinitely more difficult for them.

There are also onion networks (sorry, no link.. just use your fav. search engine), which were actually used by governments to increase anonymity.

Although I do find it ironic that a libertarian capitalist is sitting here advocating freenet.. an open-source, freeware system that is based on cooperation and collective effort rather than any motive of profit. What strange times we live in...

In any case, though, I second the freenet notion. Once it becomes more stable, I suspect its offshoots will play a very central role in subversive movements.

[encephalon]

Additional note: SSH is not very secure, at least if you're concerned with a government intercepting your data. It's just as susceptible as many other encryption methods when faced with a simple brute-force cracks. It's mainly used to stop random hackers from figuring out the exact data you send or receive.

[ComradeOm]

Technology moves on, regardless of what any of us may think. Its called progress and its pointless to even attempt to hold back change. Ask the Luddites

The internet is one of the greatest leaps forward in communications technology ever witnessed. I'm convinced that later generations will speak of it as we do of the printing press. Right now at my fingertips I have access to almost any piece of information that I desire. For example, this morning I read up on the Greek general Epaminondas on Wikipedia. Twenty years ago it would have taken a trip to the local library or the purchase of an expensive encyclopedia to access a fraction of the same information. How can this possibly be bad?

By the same token the internet and new technology has revolutionized business and the way it is conducted. If I want to purchase or inquire on a product I need only use my credit card or send an email. Hells, I would never have met almost everyone reading this if not for the internet.

[Seong]

Well said.

There are negatives, but I think these are substantially outweighed by the benefits. As ComradeOm said, if there were no internet none of us would be here. There would be no revleft and there would be considerably less opportunity for the free exchange of different ideas on a global scale. It 'connects' people. That's usually a good thing in my book. :)

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Floyce White
I place absolutely no credibility in political sites that have no relation to the activism of known persons.

Your choice.

But on what basis then should we evaluate your credibility?

Anyone can say that they do anything on the internet...and who is likely to be in a position to credibly disagree?

Much to the distress of my critics, I reply on plausibility myself...does what this person says make sense?

I think that's a tool that anyone can use on any source of information.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Publius]

Additional note: SSH is not very secure, at least if you're concerned with a government intercepting your data. It's just as susceptible as many other encryption methods when faced with a simple brute-force cracks. It's mainly used to stop random hackers from figuring out the exact data you send or receive.

Given enough time and processing power, anything can be brute forced.

But SSH is better than nothing.

Nothing is like sending your mail, open through mail system, in addition to handing out a few copies to random people along the way.

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 06:46 PM
Enter Freenet: http://freenet.sourceforge.net/
Did not know about this thanks.