Human Bombs 'till Victory!

[travisdandy2000]

You Have Made Me Your Human Bomb
by Edna Yaghi

I am the product of your tyranny. You have dissected the leftovers of my country into bits and pieces of shantytowns, ghettoes and concentrations camps. You have cut off my water supply and left me thirsty while you the Israelis bathe in cooled pools not far from where I live. You have uprooted my trees and desecrated my fields making sure I have no way to sustain myself or those who depend on me. You have cut off medical supplies that treat the wounded and at your checkpoints, you detain and humiliate Palestinians and prevent those who are in dire need of medical assistance to pass through causing my people who are your victims to die at your impromptu borders.

You assassinate my freedom fighters while explaining to the world that you are merely defending your own squatters. You shoot to kill little children who in defiance and courage wield small stones in the name of liberty against you the fiercely armed enemy.

You torture the children and resistance fighters you incarcerate and try to bribe or coerce my people into collaborating against one another. You bulldoze homes and you prevent me from earning a living. You kill me by remote control from your US made Apache helicopters and your settlers who squat on what you have left me of my land throw firebombs into my dwellings and on my passageways, attack my children and womenfolk with guns and clubs and hate.

You occupy my land and on my bloodstained hills station your tanks and armored jeeps in order to shoot off one by one little children playing in the streets.

You take over the Orient House, my one symbol of freedom that was donated by a man worth all Israelis, while at the same time you starve the orphans just across the street.

You shoot out my water tanks and you kill off Palestinian servicemen even though at the time of your brutal massacres, these servicemen were patrolling their land or simply eating their last supper. You cut off my electricity so you can assassinate me more easily in the dank shadows of your dark treachery.

You are cowards and you are afraid of little Palestinian children with stones. You never kill them single handedly. You roam in groups like packs of wild dogs and you are just as vicious if not more so.

You leave me and my people without hope and when you have driven me into a corner and deprived me of all that is human, I react with anger and bitterness. I strap explosives onto my body and search for a place to detonate myself. Yes, I kill your civilians, but this is the price you have to pay for taking away my inalienable rights, the rights that all men are entitled to for your demoniacal oppression of my people.

It is really very simple. God created all men equal and no man better than any other. Yet, somehow you have made it your protocol that Jews are better than all others and that you have the right to come to my land committing rape and plunder yet expect me to thank you for doing so.

Just the other day, a young boy was eating lunch. One of your settlers who came from America threw a firebomb into this boy’s house. His two brothers were killed immediately. But the one boy survived horribly disfigured. His name is Amar Emeera. His scars have turned a once beautiful child into a grotesque being that does not even look human. What did this child do to go through life so horribly disfigured?

You shoot babies point blank while swaddled in their parent’s arms in Palestinian cars going to weddings. You slay Palestinian children going to and from school and you slaughter Palestinian children when they fight your armies with their bare hands. One such child, Mohammed Abu Arrar was shot down and killed when he protested your occupation of his land. Palestinian relatives of the boy kissed his body laid out in his coffin before he was taken away to be buried in the Gaza Strip.

You kill unarmed Palestinian fathers on their way to buy school supplies and books for their children. You have even run out of excuses for the atrocities you continue to perpetrate. You shell the homes of Palestinian families, instantly killing the occupants and then claim that the action was friendly fire from the Palestinians even though the homes were far removed from the scene of the battle and even though remnants of your American made shells are scattered about the demolished homes of the innocent.

You collectively punish 3 million Palestinians half of whom are children who reside on what is left of their own land though you know full well that their only desire is to free themselves from your barbaric cruelty.

You tell the world that you want peace yet at every corner, at every instance, you are as far from peace as the earth is from a different universe speeding in an opposite direction.

You speak peace with the forked tongues of your warmongers and then pretend shock when finally a Palestinian human bomb blows himself up.

You will only be free of the threat of human bombs when you seek a just and comprehensive peace and when you end your occupation of the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine.

[Tormented by Treachery]

That's a very good post.

Again, I think that there should be a stickied anti-zionism thread.

[Hefer]

Very poetic :). Good job comrade.

[Dark Exodus]

Because, as we know, two wrongs make a right...

[( R )evolution]

Great Post Comrade.

[travisdandy2000]

Some Qoutes from the King-Crane Commission set up by the Woodrow Wilson to assess the claims of the Zionist on Palestine:
"...a national home for the Jewish people is not equivalent to making Palesitne into a Jewish state nor can the erection of such a Jewish State be accomplished without the gravest trespass upon the civil and religious rights of exsisting non-Jewish communities."
"If that princple is to rule, and so the wishes of Palestine's population are to be decisive as to what is to be done to Palestine, then it is to be remebered that the non-Jewish population of Palestine-nearly nine tenths the whole are emphatically against the entire Zionist program.....To subject a people so minded to unlimited Jewish immigration, and to steady finicial and social pressure to surrender the land, would be a groos violation of people's rights, even if kept within the forms of the law."
"No British officer, consulted by the Commissioners, beleived that the Zionist program could be carried out except by force of arms."
"The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's confrence with Jewish represenitives that the Zionist looked foward to a practcally complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Plaestine."
"THE INITIAL CLAIM, OFTEN SUMBMITTED BY ZIONIST REPRESENITIVES, THAT THEY HAVE A 'RIGHT' TO PALESTINE, BASED ON AN OCCUPATION OF TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO, CAN HARDLY BE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED."

[travisdandy2000]

A Summary of the First 45 Years of the Arab-Isreali Conflict
Deaths: Jews Total Arabs
1939 Riots: 329 3,293
1948-49 War: 2,000 thousands
1950's: 0 96
1967 war: 778 20,000+
1973 war: 2,552 15,000
1978 inv Leb: 0 2,000
1982 inv Leb: 487 30,000+
1982-92: thousands
Intifada to '89: 85 900
Subtotal: 6,212 67,323++

Mind you all these conlifcts were started by the Zionist, and yes I can back that statment up if you doubt it. It is obvious the Palestinians cannont fight "Isreal" by convetional means, unconventional warfare is their right.

"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people."-Golda Meir

"There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighboring countries....all of them; not one village, not one tribe, should be left."-Joseph Weitz, 1967.

"The only good Arab is a dead Arab When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be the scurry around like drugged cockroaches."-Rafael Eitan, Likud, 1981.

"It is forbidden to be mericiful to them...Evil ones, dammnable ones. May the Holy Name visit retribution on the Arab's heads, and cause their seed to be lost, and annihilate them.."-Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, 2001.

Isreali Minister of the Interior Eli Yesha's respose to Yosef's remarks: "They reflected the overall state of thinking of the Isreali Jewish Society.

[Hate Is Art]

Human Bombs?

That's sickening. No leftist should condone the use of suicide bombing, which more often then not ends up killing Israeli citizens, which will do nothing for yr cause.

And for all the stories you posted, I'm sure we could find just as many for Israeli victims of Palistinian suicide attacks.

Revenge for one attack they place upon us, will only result in revenge, by them, upon yrself. War, is clearly not the answer.

xx

edit: just bad punctuation

[Tormented by Treachery]

I agree with it for one reason: it is true.

I do not condone the killing of innocent civilians, but I support the resistance, so this is an unfortunate part of it. Just like I do not support terrorism, but I do support the fact that it is helping the anti-war movement in the US.

[Hate Is Art]

Support the resistance by all means, just don't support their methods, at all

And don't say it's a unfortunate part of it, like there is no other way to get things done, there are other ways that don't result in innocents dieing.

xx

[Dark Exodus]

It is obvious the Palestinians cannont fight "Isreal" by convetional means, unconventional warfare is their right.

How exactly will killing innocents not involved in the fighting stop Israel from doing the exact same with more brutality and effectiveness? It is not their 'right' to kill innocent people, that only makes the situation worse.

[travisdandy2000]

Killing "innocents" is intended to make Isreal unlivable, so that every day is a nightmare of fear and aprehension for the colonialist. This discourages more people from coming to occupy Palestinain land, and encourages those already there to leave. Palestine cannont use conventioanl methods, they cannot just attack the IDF without being wiped out by U.S. made wepons. The point is to make the lives of the Zionist harsh and pointless, so they will give up their futile project, and go home.

[Soheran]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 01:27 AM
The point is to make the lives of the Zionist harsh and pointless, so they will give up their futile project, and go home.
"Go home" where, precisely?

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by Machiavelli [email protected] 4 2006, 02:04 PM
Great Post Comrade.
What exactly is so "great" about a religious zealot strapping explosives to his chest and blowing up entire families out having dinner?

As far as this kid Travisdandy is concerned, I doubt that anyone who condones blowing infants into pieces with their parents, brothers and sisters at the local gelato shop will last long at this site.

I do hope he is allowed to stay a bit longer though; perhaps some of our local "leftists" will come to their senses by observing this kid's insane rants.

[travisdandy2000]

Go home, to New York, Europe, where ever they lived before they invaded Palestine. RAF I'm sorry you lack the stomach for revolution, I don't know how many times it has to be pointed out that the PFLP is a Marxist organization that cannot be brushed aside as religious fanatics. What is your suggestion for Palestianian resistance? Should they attack the giant U.S. made tanks with their russian wepons head on? Should they overthrow their own goverment and set up anarchist communes so it will be easier for the "Isrealis" to exterminate them? What do you suggest, oh thats right you just think it's stupid, who cares, right?

[ReD_ReBeL]

(travisdandy2000)

Should they attack the giant U.S. made tanks with their russian wepons head on?

Worked well in the Cuban Revolution of the 1950's anyway.
Is it going to take your mother, father , sisters, brothers or even your children being blown up by these maniacs to realise what a horrific method you are supporting? if so , i hope this isn't the case.
And another thing ..how did you escape from the mental ward?

[travisdandy2000]

A Palestinian Response to a letter from a Rabbi:

As for Zionist aggression, such aggression has taken place in the whole of Palestine and not in just a portion of it. What is at stake is not whether you believe me, or how condescending you can be to those who do not agree with you or how supercilious you may strive to be, but the lives and welfare of the Palestinian people. You pretend to agree that the Palestinians have suffered at the hands of the Israelis, yet you twist the truth to suit your purposes.

Please do not hide behind your pretensions of my not reading or understanding what you wrote. English happens to be my second language and therefore, I do not have too much trouble comprehending what I read, and at times I am even able to read what is written between the lines.

Let us turn now to the Kingdoms of David and Solomon. David’s kingdom lasted from 1010-970 B.C. Solomon’s lasted from 970-930 B.C. After the death of Solomon, there ensued a decline in the Hebrew kingdom. In 585 B.C., the new Babylonian Empire under Nebuchadnezzar sacked Jerusalem and took many of its people into captivity to Babylon. There was some revival of the Hebrews recovering most of what Solomon had ruled before B.C. but in 63 B.C., Pompey stormed Jerusalem and Palestine virtually became a Roman province. In A.D. 135, the Romans put an end to the Jewish presence in Palestine by destroying Jerusalem. It was not until the Muslim conqueror Saladin retook Jerusalem in 1187, that the Jews were allowed to return.

However you look at it, Jewish presence in Palestine was short-lived, unstable and intermittent. And that after some 4000 years ago, Hebrews of then have no national or racial affinity between them and the Russian, Polish, American and European Jews of today. If such transitory occupation can give Zionists a historic right to Palestine, then we can say that the Arabs who occupied Spain continuously for 800 years could claim that country today. The Zionist claim to Palestine is neither correct, legitimate, moral or ethical. As for gloating, you are quite wrong Dr. Mathis. I gloat over nothing. I am interested in the truth and am not anti-Jew but anti-oppression and injustice. What I would like to see is that the truth prevail especially where it is so often distorted and changed to suit biased purposes.

Gracious me, it wasn’t too difficult for me to grasp your etymology of anti-Semitism either. What you term as a proper definition does not have to suit me. Semites are, regardless of your etymology, mostly Arabs. Arabs are not anti-Semites but anti-oppression. Zionists use this term for anyone who disagrees with them. It has become a magic wand which has and can still bring the Christian world to their heels with the mere threat of being labeled as anti-Semites. It cloaks every Israeli crime and the Western world blinks at every Israeli atrocity for fear of being labeled anti-Semite. As for political blindness Dr. Mathis, I suggest you take your own advice and abandon yours.

There is no difficulty on my part to distinguish Jews from Israelis, though most of Israel seems to be made up of Jews. Palestinian children are shot at point blank range and often in the back because they are indeed non-Jews, and the Israelis who shoot them are Jews. As for the Druzes and Bedouins who serve in the IDF, they are traitors to the Arabs of Palestine and I know that whenever there is a battle, these traitors are put in the front line so that if anyone dies, it will be them and not the Jewish Israelis.

The Zionists did not have to choose the land of another people to realize their Jewish state. It is a war state bent on the destruction of the Palestinian people. There is no threat to Jews in any part of the world, but there is a grave threat to the Palestinian people. They are the victims of hate, they are the oppressed, and they are the ones who die every day while they fight for their freedom. They are an endangered species. They are the expedient victims of Israeli whims and attempts at genocide. It is impossible too for Israel to accommodate all the Jews in the world at the expense of the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine. Jews are no longer a race of people, but a religion. That such converts to Judaism as American Sammy Davis Jr. have more right to Palestine than a Palestinian born in his own country is not only a tragedy but a crime against humanity. I shall not hold my breath for Israel to relinquish its right to exist, but I will pray for justice.

It is not the Jews who need a refuge in other people’s lands but the world needs a refuge in which to hide from Zionists. God created the world perfect. It is only man who manipulates it to serve his own evil purposes. And Zionism is indeed as evil as evil can be.

History was written by those who hang heroes. How many Palestinian heroes have you hung Dr. Mathis? Until the Palestinian Holocaust is over, until the Palestinian Diaspora is settled, until oppression and the massacre of the Palestinian people ends, there will never be peace in the Middle East.

Happy Hanukah and May your New Year give you a greater and more objective insight into the suffering of an innocent people.

[amanondeathrow]

What exactly is so "great" about a religious zealot strapping explosives to his chest and blowing up entire families out having dinner?
There is nothing great about it and this post illustrates how Israeli terrorism is responsible for such reaction. I agree that suicide bombings should not be used regardless of whose fault they are, but Israel must understand that until it rejects its racist ideology and gives freedom to Palestine, these attacks will continue.

[travisdandy2000]

Red Rebel, on the international leftist scene my ideas are mainstream, it is only in the U.S. backwater of liberalism and cowardice, that I am suddenly a nut. I can assure you that at any international gathering of revolutionary groups people like RAF would be chased out in half an hour. That's why most, U.S. "revolutionary" groups are shunned and laughed at by the rest of the world. AS for RAF's 'kid' remarks I bet I know more people actualy engaged in revolution or imprisoned for their efforts, then you've even read about.

[ReD_ReBeL]

Red Rebel, on the international leftist scene my ideas are mainstream

No my friend, i think mainstream leftists , like most of us here , We support Palestianian independence but condemn acts against innocent human beings.
That goes for the PFLP they are just as bad. They even hold Saddam Hussein in high regard. Do you?

[travisdandy2000]

and you base that assumption on what?

[ReD_ReBeL]

argh! i can't find a good article on this, but look on google for yourself.
I found this though..PFLP solidarity with S.Hussein (http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/12/276677.shtml)

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by Dandyboy
What do you suggest, oh thats right you just think it's stupid, who cares, right?

I don't "suggest" we do anything.

I don't give two fucks about a religious war between two fanatical groups.

No matter who wins the outcome will be the same: a society based on the religious domination of the people by fundamentalist clerics.


I can assure you that at any international gathering of revolutionary groups people like RAF would be chased out in half an hour.

I'd lay you 50 to 1 that you wouldn't know a "revolution" if it bit you right in the coglioni, esse.


I bet I know more people actualy engaged in revolution or imprisoned for their efforts, then you've even read about.

What? Do you want a cookie or something? Perhaps a little blue ribbon to pin on your
Rage Against The Machine book bag?

[travisdandy2000]

Red Rebel your dammn right that every revolutionay organization on the face of this earth supports S.Hussein over the imperialist invaders. I guess you greet Bush as the great liberator. I guess you think international stuggles should be judged on the basis of your comfortable liberal upbringing. Let's hold hands and sing songs while the IDF assisinates babies, and old men. Thank God the U.S. liberated Iraq from evil president Hussein, huh? Just because they had the highest living standards in the middle east before the embargo for trying to take back Iraqi land i.e. Kuwait, (Kuwait is an Iraqi word, and a part of Iraqi dialect). Kuwait was part of Iraq until to colonial division that also lead to the creation of Isreal that you love so much. Yes, Yes Go Imperialist I Don't Support Your Latest Victim %100 Percent So Take 'em Out!

[Hate Is Art]

I don't give two fucks about a religious war between two fanatical groups.

No matter who wins the outcome will be the same: a society based on the religious domination of the people by fundamentalist clerics.

Just because there is conflict, it doesn't mean we have to take sides.

As I've already said revenge won't work, as you'll just get involved in a cycle of revenge, until eventually no one supports you, except a couple of crazy "lefties" and religious nut-jobs.

If you really want to end occupation and injustice, look how people like Gandhi and MLK jr did it. They didn't use a single act of violence. Maybe you could learn from them.

xx

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 5 2006, 07:17 AM

If you really want to end occupation and injustice, look how people like Gandhi and MLK jr did it. They didn't use a single act of violence. Maybe you could learn from them.
They didn't do a damn thing on their own and both of their "movements" were full of violence. Riots, bombings, armed struggle, etc were all part of their collective struggles, despite what the pacifist collaborationists have to say.

Armed struggle doesn't have to mean killing innocent people. Stop creating a false dichotomy.

[Dark Exodus]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 01:27 AM
Killing "innocents" is intended to make Isreal unlivable, so that every day is a nightmare of fear and aprehension for the colonialist. This discourages more people from coming to occupy Palestinain land, and encourages those already there to leave. Palestine cannont use conventioanl methods, they cannot just attack the IDF without being wiped out by U.S. made wepons. The point is to make the lives of the Zionist harsh and pointless, so they will give up their futile project, and go home.
Go home where exactly? Attacking Israeli civilians only serves to fuel the fire.

[ReD_ReBeL]

Red Rebel your dammn right that every revolutionay organization on the face of this earth supports S.Hussein over the imperialist invaders. I guess you greet Bush as the great liberator. I guess you think international stuggles should be judged on the basis of your comfortable liberal upbringing.

Whats makes this post even funnier is, that you don't even know where i live or the lifestyle i live.so please ask before you start ranting on with your stupid crap.
And you yourself can't exactly have a bad upbringing because your spending all your time on a PC posting on a forum. i doubt a peasant would be able to do that.
Also stop twisting my words, because i stated PFLP supports Saddam , where did i say every revolutionary organisation did? if you can't reply with sensible answeres don't bother because frankly im not interested in your islamic extremeist views.
So support these groups which use suicide bombings who don't give a toss what there target is. You think they would be bothered if they blew up innocents like your family or my family or any other innocent person?

[Husky42]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 06:42 AM
Red Rebel your dammn right that every revolutionay organization on the face of this earth supports S.Hussein over the imperialist invaders. I guess you greet Bush as the great liberator. I guess you think international stuggles should be judged on the basis of your comfortable liberal upbringing. Let's hold hands and sing songs while the IDF assisinates babies, and old men. Thank God the U.S. liberated Iraq from evil president Hussein, huh? Just because they had the highest living standards in the middle east before the embargo for trying to take back Iraqi land i.e. Kuwait, (Kuwait is an Iraqi word, and a part of Iraqi dialect). Kuwait was part of Iraq until to colonial division that also lead to the creation of Isreal that you love so much. Yes, Yes Go Imperialist I Don't Support Your Latest Victim %100 Percent So Take 'em Out!
I think you are quite wrong. I do not see anybody on this board even slightly agreeing with you anymore. You are backwords. You realize that their will be violence in revolutoin however you do not condem innocent lives being taken for absolutely no reason other then they were a bi-product of "revolution"? That is disgusting.

Iraqi's did not have the highest standard of living. But they were ok. Suadis have the highest standard of living.

Kuwait was part of Iraq for 4000 years. But Kuwaiti people wanted independence.

Sure Iraq and Kuqait are techincally one. Not anymore. Deal with it.

Israel has a right to exist. Just not in respect to how it exis right now by being propped up by the US. Many Palestenians understand the Israeli right to exist. (they existed as their own seperate state thousands of years ago) *by your claim to kuwait with Iraq if Iraq deserves Kuwait then Israel has a right to exist... Or am I wrong?

A nation of people has no right???

I absolutely hate Israel Govt and the Policy they putforth, however why should I hate people? Why should I hate any specific person? I can dislike a persons action and condem what they do... but why would I ever hate a specific person and deny Israel's right?

I think there is alot wrong with israle, but like I said I stand with many other palestenians. Many understands israel's right and only want the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights returend to the rightfull owners. End the occupation.

If Israel returns to its pre 1967 state many will be satisfied.

[Hate Is Art]

Armed struggle doesn't have to mean killing innocent people.

How do you define innocent? Someone who's been conscripted, or joined the army because he had nothing else? Are they innocent. Killing anyone is not right. It can never be justified.

xx

[bcbm]

How do you define innocent?

Unarmed civillian of no tactical importance.



Someone who's been conscripted, or joined the army because he had nothing else? Are they innocent.

Depends on which way they point their gun when things start to get serious.


Killing anyone is not right. It can never be justified.

What utter nonsense. Killing can be perfectly justified, it simply depends on the situation at hand. "Right" and "wrong" don't exist.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by black banner black gun+Feb 5 2006, 01:55 PM--> (black banner black gun @ Feb 5 2006, 01:55 PM)
Digital [email protected] 5 2006, 07:17 AM

If you really want to end occupation and injustice, look how people like Gandhi and MLK jr did it. They didn't use a single act of violence. Maybe you could learn from them.
They didn't do a damn thing on their own and both of their "movements" were full of violence. Riots, bombings, armed struggle, etc were all part of their collective struggles, despite what the pacifist collaborationists have to say.

Armed struggle doesn't have to mean killing innocent people. Stop creating a false dichotomy. [/b]
Thanks, you said it for me.

This is revolutionary left, ffs! :lol:

[Soheran]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 03:43 AM
Go home, to New York, Europe, where ever they lived before they invaded Palestine.
Firstly, most of Israeli Jewry were born in Israel.

Secondly, do you think Europe will want them? Do you think Russia is going to accept back all the Soviet Jewry? And why should they return to a continent that butchered six million of them, anyway? And what about the ones who came from the Arab World?

How can you support ethnic cleansing?

[travisdandy2000]

I am freinds with a number of Jews with families that were native to Palestine before the Zionist invasion and all of them are against Zionism. All of their families were forcibly chased out of Plaestine out of fear that they migh be too sympathetic to their generations old neighbors and freinds, the Muslims.
I don't really care if the majority of people on this fourm disagree with me, I am used to being in the minority when dealing with, "leftist" in the imperialist nations, most of whom are just young liberals. Go ahead and carry on with your utopian ideas, while the third world is faced with reality, but I guess as the imerpial nations consider themselves superior in all areas, they must also consider themsleves the proper judges of revolutions in distant poverty stricken lands. Che called for the destruction of Isreal, Che agreed with my position, you are pissing on his image.

[Tormented by Treachery]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 03:29 AM
Che called for the destruction of Isreal, Che agreed with my position, you are pissing on his image.
Oh, no! Not CHE!

I'm sorry, but this argument is being over simplified by both sides. If there was an easy answer, it would have been implemented at this point.

[ReD_ReBeL]

(Travisdandy2000)

I don't really care if the majority of people on this fourm disagree with me, I am used to being in the minority

No wonder when u support the slaughter of innocent human beings.



"leftist" in the imperialist nations, most of whom are just young liberals

I hear you keep throwing this around..Tell me...Where are you from? i bet your from an imperialist nation so shut up. and also you spend alot of time on this forum, so you yourself can't exactly be poor.


Che called for the destruction of Isreal, Che agreed with my position, you are pissing on his image.

Cause we disagree with something he says, we are pissing on his image? im not Che i have my own opinions im not a kiss ass.
Also provide a source of him saying this.

[Soheran]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 03:29 AM
Che called for the destruction of Isreal, Che agreed with my position, you are pissing on his image.
I really don't care what Che Guevara called for. I am not a puppet of Che Guevara; my opinions need not coincide with his.

If opposing the slaughter of innocent people makes me an elitist and an imperialist, so be it; I will wear the labels with pride, under the circumstances.

[travisdandy2000]

Fine then wear it with pride, but don't call yourself a revolutionary leftist, call your self what you are a western liberal or at best a social democrat.

[Hate Is Art]

Killing can be perfectly justified

Does that aplly if someone where to kill you? The removal life against someones wishes is the worst possible thing.

Fine then wear it with pride, but don't call yourself a revolutionary leftist, call your self what you are a western liberal or at best a social democrat.

I'll call you what you are, bordeline racist and a perpuator of the slaughter of innocents.

[ReD_ReBeL]

but don't call yourself a revolutionary leftist, call your self what you are a western liberal or at best a social democrat.

tell me how exactly Hamas and other religious fundamentalist groups which use suicide bombing are leftists?
When the US fought for there independence against the British, did that mean it was a socialist revolution? no it didn't.
You probably support that nutcase Abu Hamza who was jailed today with a sentence of 7 years.
HOw dare you attempt to label me a western liberal or a social democrat when all your basing me on is if i think suicide bombings are justified or not. You advocate the slaughter or innocent human beings and think your somekind of true leftist, tell me how does supporting an islamic movement make you leftist?

[Ol' Dirty]

Disguisting. It is duisguisting how ignorant the people who are responding to this first post are. The people of Palestine have been backed into a corner, with very few other options than to kill themselves, hopefully some Israelis that have tormented them since the begining of many of their lives. Yet, still, you call them "crazy religious zealots". Dispicable.

I tell you, people, if someone unjustly invaded your home, slaughtered your wife or husband, your children, your parents, your freinds, kwouldn't you fight back.

I know I would.

Peace.

[ReD_ReBeL]

I tell you, people, if someone unjustly invaded your home, slaughtered your wife or husband, your children, your parents, your freinds, kwouldn't you fight back.

Yes i would fight back. I dont think some of you are getting the jist of what me and other people mean. I am not against fighting back against the military and the ones who have commited the crimes against the Palestinian people, but tell me what exactly have the isreali civllians(who are usualy the victims of suicide bombings) done to the palestinian people?
Do you think it would be justified if me(being a british civillian) or any other british or US citizen was to be killed by an Iraqi insurgent because our governments attacked Iraq?

[Global_Justice]

i support the palastinian cause (ending the occupation of west bank, east jerusalum and gaza), as i think everyone here does. however, i don't support the killing of innocents.

ont thing that pisses me off though, someones who is anti-israel/anti-zionist getting labelled anti-semitic or racist. i hate the israeli government, religion/race aside.

[Global_Justice]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 5 2006, 08:43 PM


Armed struggle doesn't have to mean killing innocent people.

How do you define innocent? Someone who's been conscripted, or joined the army because he had nothing else? Are they innocent. Killing anyone is not right. It can never be justified.

xx
why are you even on rev left? :huh:

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by flux one
I tell you, people, if someone unjustly invaded your home, slaughtered your wife or husband, your children, your parents, your freinds, kwouldn't you fight back.

I know I would.


Who wouldn't?

We are not oppsosed to "fighting off invaders"; we are opposed to the istallation of a new government that is still dominated by a socially oppressive religious ideology.

If you think all those kats blowing themselves up are doing it in the name of a "free Palestine"; then you're just being naive.

These nut jobs are blowing themselves to bits in the name of Islam.

Western supporters of the Palestinian movement can easily separate the religious aspect of this war due to their relative distance from the conflict; however the people of that region simply see a 3000 year old religious war.

A religious war that needs to be won at any cost.

Tradition and superstition demand it.

[Global_Justice]

Originally posted by Comrade RAF+Feb 7 2006, 08:51 PM--> (Comrade RAF @ Feb 7 2006, 08:51 PM)
flux one
I tell you, people, if someone unjustly invaded your home, slaughtered your wife or husband, your children, your parents, your freinds, kwouldn't you fight back.

I know I would.


Who wouldn't?

We are not oppsosed to "fighting off invaders"; we are opposed to the istallation of a new government that is still dominated by a socially oppressive religious ideology.

If you think all those kats blowing themselves up are doing it in the name of a "free Palestine"; then you're just being naive.

These nut jobs are blowing themselves to bits in the name of Islam.

Western supporters of the Palestinian movement can easily separate the religious aspect of this war due to their relative distance from the conflict; however the people of that region simply see a 3000 year old religious war.

A religious war that needs to be won at any cost.

Tradition and superstition demand it. [/b]
it has got to the point where both sides are racist, both sides hate each other. its a senseless war, it will just go round in circles, it's 2 groups of people who both want to kill each other because they hate each other.

i support the palastinian cause, but i'm also not naive enough to think that if the palastinians got in charge, they would march into israel and do exactly the same things, kill people, throw them out and then bulldoze their homes. their argument in support of this would be "they did it first"

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by global justice
i support the palastinian cause, but i'm also not naive enough to think that if the palastinians got in charge, they would march into israel and do exactly the same things, kill people, throw them out and then bulldoze their homes.

If you believe such an even will occur, how could you rationally choose to support such a "movement"?

That's just it, you can't rationally support it; does it make logical sense to continue to do so then?

Considering what the Muslim population did to the Judaic polulation the last time they "had the reigns"; killing, eviction and bulldozing is only the tip of the iceberg.


it has got to the point where both sides are racist, both sides hate each other. its a senseless war, it will just go round in circles, it's 2 groups of people who both want to kill each other because they hate each other.


It is indeed a senseless war. If they have it their way, they will still be whacking each other out for another 3000 years.

Now, why exactly do you support it then?

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 7 2006, 12:39 PM
Does that aplly if someone where to kill you?
As I said before, it depends on the situation. There are situations where it would be perfectly reasonable to kill me, yes.


The removal life against someones wishes is the worst possible thing.

Sometimes, sure, but some people do earn themselves that honor.

[travisdandy2000]

For the thousandth time! Not all human bombs in Palestine are Muslim Zealots, many aren't even Muslim! You seem to have a hard time getting this. Many use the human bomb stratedgy becasue it is tacticly sound, not because they are looking for virigns in heaven. Take just five minutes to look up PFLP, or Lela Khaled. The sturggle in Paleistine is not the exclusive domain of the Islamist, though the revolutionary force support them insofar as they undermine Isreal.

[jaster]

true, although the majority are muslim, the fact remains that many are secular, there was a video released by hamas in the summer of '02 that showed two british christians pledging to die for the people of palistine, their missions were a success and the killed many israeli soldiers in the attack.
In the words of a palistinian trainer for islamic jihad (an opposistion group) in the west bank, "the only weapon against terrorisim is terrorisim"
with that i agree, there are two ways out this problem that is, a viable two state solution, which in my opinion will never happen barring extreme circumstances. the second being is when israel is gone forever, which will be aqcheived by the brave individuals of the resistance movement.

[jaster]

...and for "black banner black gun", ther ehave been many peace movement, the thing is that these dont attract the western mendia as well as suicide bombings, and secondly they dont work when you march out and sit down in the middle of a road and are then promptly shot by the IDF

[Hate Is Art]

why are you even on rev left?

Are you saying I shouldn't be on revleft because I don't believe in killing people?

xx

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 02:19 PM
...and for "black banner black gun", ther ehave been many peace movement, the thing is that these dont attract the western mendia as well as suicide bombings, and secondly they dont work when you march out and sit down in the middle of a road and are then promptly shot by the IDF
I've never expressed any amount of support for suicide bombing and I am fully aware of the peaceful movements seeking to end the occupation, etc in Palestine. I was merely refuting the absurd assertions about armed struggle and violence in general that were floating around this thread.

[travisdandy2000]

http://www.ucomics.com/rallcom/2006/01/19/

[Hate Is Art]

One of the great achievements of modern man is his use of rationality. Try excersizing it over your emotions.

xx

[redxj]

[QUOTE]I tell you, people, if someone unjustly invaded your home, slaughtered your wife or husband, your children, your parents, your freinds, kwouldn't you fight back.


Fight back, resist. 100000 of my people in Iraq were exterminated, and Bush has eliminated Saddam who had them killed.

This thread is sad, human life is given no value, we can all sit here at our computers and shout liberation! yet none of us have truly sacrificed ourselves. Not one has taken up arms to fight. Palestinians and Jews will not live in peace until both stop the actions they take today. I have great pity for those who have been killed on both sides, but too often as I've read on this site people jump to blame someone. It is absolute ignorance and most of the liberals I know act the same way, when asked about George Bush they cry out about him being an idiot, a warmonger, and yet they have nothing but a War on Terror to blame him for, a war against a threat that killed 5000 Innocent american and foreigners. I will not say I support a war in Iraq, nor do I support the election of Hamas known for its anti-israeli view, in fact it is as if I support nothing. This thread is sad, when your existence is ended, your life destroyed, your kind eliminated, then come back and say Killing is Just.

[travisdandy2000]

It is sad, but struggle is just that. People will die, before the world reaches equalibrieum. Of course I don't want to die, and I don't want my loved ones to die, but all the same it is still better to die on your feet then to live on your knees.