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razboz
2nd February 2006, 16:31
Have we over the years created a cult of the personnality over Che Gueverra? I'm not trying to put down the revolutionary genius that was Ernesto "Che" Guevarra, but perhaps over the years his supporters have created a kind of cult around him, elvating him to near religous heights... People wear his apparrell as if they were religous insigna, like the christian cross and so on. This is the kind of idolatry that Stalin or Mao built up around themselves. This is the kind of worship that Mikhail Gorbachev very rightly denounced as counter-revolutionary. Probably thanks to this cult are the capitalist schemers attempting to distract the attention of the revolutionaries away from the actions and towards the personna...
Any way thats what i think...what do all of you think?

Sentinel
2nd February 2006, 19:08
Even though I see your point, I don't think Guevara's case is comparable to others, since the "worship" mostly began after his death..

Symbols such as him can also be useful for the cause since they make young people discover and do research on communism.


Originally posted by razboz
This is the kind of worship that Mikhail Gorbachev very rightly denounced as counter-revolutionary.

I denounce Mikhail Gorbachev as counter-revolutionary. :lol:

loveme4whoiam
2nd February 2006, 20:14
I denounce Mikhail Gorbachev as counter-revolutionary. laugh.gif

Hehehe :lol:

I definitely see your point razbot. As far as I can see there are those who wear Che t-shirts etc who have no idea who he is, and simply wear it to make a fashion statement (although really, one they don't understand themselves :lol:); and the other guys who have a sort-of idolioty of Che. Frank;y I think the former is alot worse than the latter. The people I've met who actually know stuff about Che tend to be aware of his faults as well as his many virtues, whereas the other people are just ignorant.

I'm not saying the stuff should be taken off the market though, just that an effort to educate people about the bloke whose fetching visage they have emblazoned across their chests should be made :D

Janus
2nd February 2006, 21:59
A personality cult is usually defined as the excessive adulation of a living leader. Besides, most of the people whom I see wear Che shirts don't really know who he is. So I believe that Che has become romanticized rather than having gained a personality cult.

Hopes_Guevara
4th February 2006, 02:16
Originally posted by The [email protected] 2 2006, 07:27 PM
I denounce Mikhail Gorbachev as counter-revolutionary. :lol:

:lol:

A personality cult is usually defined as the excessive adulation of a living leader
...
So I believe that Che has become romanticized rather than having gained a personality cult.

I'm with you. Che didn't make himself become a cult. Moreover, I believe Che has been admired because people love his revoultionary spirit and strong character, and as Janus said, also because of the romance was made by his lifestyle.

razboz
4th February 2006, 08:25
But nontheless, he has been abstracted from his revolutionairy ideas. People often dont stop and think why he was fighting, all they know or want to know, is that he was fighting and a what great hero he was and how handsome he was and so on. What i mean is that his presonality, his pressonna has taken over what he stood for. He has become an abstract concept, a kinnd of ethereal that people blindly admire. This is not good. This looks a lot like a cult to me.
and yes mikhail gorbachev probably was counter-revolutionairy, but it doesnt mean what he said about Stalin was all wrong....

Sentinel
4th February 2006, 14:42
Lenin talked about this phenomenon:


Originally posted by State and Revolution+--> (State and Revolution) During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes constantly hounded them, received their theories with the most savage malice, the most furious hatred and the most unscrupulous campaigns of lies and slander. After their death, attempts are made to convert them into harmless icons, to canonize them, so to say, and to hallow their names to a certain extent for the "consolation" of the oppressed classes and with the object of duping the latter, while at the same time robbing the revolutionary theory of its substance, blunting its revolutionary edge and vulgarizing it. [/b]


Originally posted by razboz+--> (razboz) But nontheless, he has been abstracted from his revolutionairy ideas. People often dont stop and think why he was fighting, all they know or want to know, is that he was fighting and a what great hero he was [/b]

All that is true, but othervise many wouldn't know who he was at all, right? I think that the capitalists are speeding up the destruction of class society in this, as in many other aspects, with their greed. Their very system is self-destructing.

Even though they make shitloads of money with Che's image, if only one of a hundred young people purchazing one of the t-shirts does some research
on him and becomes a revolutionary, the capitalists have put another nail in their own coffin! :)


[email protected]
how handsome he was and so on

He was, wasn't he! ;)


razboz
and yes mikhail gorbachev probably was counter-revolutionairy, but it doesnt mean what he said about Stalin was all wrong....

Guess not, but he used it to propagate for capitalism as we realise when we see him
in Pizza-Hut commercials.

But as many of the posters on this thread have agreed, Stalins case has nothing to do with Ches. We shouldn't be fighting the idolizing of him in my opinion.

loveme4whoiam
4th February 2006, 18:46
If education comes with idolisation, I have no problem with it. Of course, if some "What would Che do?" mechandise come out I'd still buy it :P

FULL METAL JACKET
4th February 2006, 18:59
Even though I see your point, I don't think Guevara's case is comparable to others, since the "worship" mostly began after his death..

Wasn't Jesus worshipped after his death :lol:

Fidelbrand
4th February 2006, 20:28
I think it's not a problem.
Adoring good things and having something to look up to is very normal.

razboz
4th February 2006, 21:12
Dude adoring things is not good: it is outdated and hampers logical thought. enlightened people do not need to cling to beleifs: they can use their minds to reach logical conclusions. Adoring things, wether good or not is not prolific for reasonning. Adoration basses itself o irrational and excessive love for something. Adoration even of something thats "good" does not encourage free thinking. Free thinking and thought, in my opinion , should be placed above most things.

Everyday Anarchy
4th February 2006, 21:27
Adoring something gives you something to live for, to fight for. I think a lot of us would enjoy being a noble revolutionary and "fighting the good fight," like Che's idolized for.

I see Ernesto as a sense of inspiration. Whenever I see that famous "face of the revolution" pose, I feel a surge of revolution within myself.

Janus
4th February 2006, 21:40
Fidelbrand said that it was normal, he didn't expressly say that it was always good. Having a role model of some sort is all right but we shouldn't grow enamoured and blindly adulate someone.

Fidelbrand
5th February 2006, 12:15
Thanks Janus. You articulate my heart.

Never wanna say "adoring" things need to go soar to an extent where it contaminates/hampers one's "objective" / "logical" thought-patterns.