Alienation

[kurt]

I suppose a brief account of the marxist theory of alienation would be as follows:

Workers sell their labour power to the capitalist class, and the product they create is owned by the capitalist. This is the cause of alienation, because the worker sees the production process as alien to him/herself.

Now here is where my question arises. I have always taken it that someone who is "alienated" in the marxist sense has come to realize that the system of production does not benefit their class. They become somewhat "aware" of the class contradictions in capitalism. However, I believe alienation is a pre-requisite for class consciousness. This would be the stage where the worker realizes his position in capitalism, but is "dejected", and can't see any way out.

So, the question is : Is an alienated worker willing to submit to the state, or are they unwilling to submit?

It is my view that they are, due to this dejection and a perceived lack of options.

[jaycee]

i don't think its as simple as that becuase a workerwho sees the root of his alienation does not automatically stop feeling the alienation of capitalist society which is around in every aspect of life in capitalist society, not just production.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Marx's theories of alienation, no doubt, stem from his early philosophical roots and the idea of "alienation" strikes me as just that....a philosophical concept.

You could say I suppose that theories on alienation are part of a "Philosophical (or moral) Marxism" and therefore could be completely ignored.

I mean I suspect that someone could quite easily sit for evenings on end by an open fire with a glass of brandy and discuss with friends what alienation "means", but outside of such discussions it holds little "real world" value.


Originally posted by comradekurt+--> (comradekurt)I have always taken it that someone who is "alienated" in the marxist sense has come to realize that the system of production does not benefit their class.[/b]

As I understand it, someone is "alienated" because their "labour power" performs repetitive functions. There is no enjoyment in what they do.

Therefore to alleviate "alienation", people in a Communist society would spend their time doing things they enjoy. Their labour is no longer "alien" to them.


comradekurt
So, the question is : Is an alienated worker willing to submit to the state, or are they unwilling to submit?

If I'm not mistaken, everyone (at least every worker) is "alienated" in a Capitalist society and you don't need to "realise" your "alienated" to be "alienated".

All very philosophical.

[Seong]

As someone fairly new to the socialist front I can say that I felt alienated, I still feel alienated and there is no fucking way that I am ready to submit. My dissatisfaction with capitalist society eventually led me here...hopefully it will do the same for others. I think the majoirty have been raised as consumers so they'll keep trying to fill the void with a range of 'lifestyle choices' before they realise there are other options.

[KC]

I have always taken it that someone who is "alienated" in the marxist sense has come to realize that the system of production does not benefit their class. They become somewhat "aware" of the class contradictions in capitalism. However, I believe alienation is a pre-requisite for class consciousness. This would be the stage where the worker realizes his position in capitalism, but is "dejected", and can't see any way out.

So, the question is : Is an alienated worker willing to submit to the state, or are they unwilling to submit?

It is my view that they are, due to this dejection and a perceived lack of options.


Alienation of labour doesn't bring about class consciousness. In fact, most alienated workers feel nothing but apathy. In Marx's words (I might be paraphrasing, I don't remember the exact quote) workers' labour time is dead time to them. Life begins once they get off of work. They might have some resignations about the system in which they work, but they don't usually have a class consciousness or become politicized because of it.