Read what my teacher said...

[Rawthentic]

well, we were reading a book in my class that takes place in Cuba and is about a little Cuban boy who is about to leave his country and parents to study in Miami. This is around the beginning of the post revolution era, where people were still allowed to go to the US and come back. Anyway, we started to read references of Cuba's poverty. She asked us if anyone knew why Cuba was so poor. I said that it was mostly due to the US embargo on the Cuban economy, and she said no, that it was due to the economic order that Cuba had, Fidel Castro's regimen. She was saying how it was a very idealist thing, but always ended up in a totalitarian government, or a dictatorship. She also called China communist, which was really retarded. She was telling us how human nature does not work well with communism because people are not suited to share and be cooperative. She glorified US capitalism and said how we were lucky cuz we had all these commodities due to the free market that allowed all the goods to rain down on all, obviously not the case. She made Cuba look really bad and even made some people yell with shock because she was saying how Castro was oppressive because he controlled them and how she felt so sorry for them. Poor ***** :D

[More Fire for the People]

So what did you say?

[FULL METAL JACKET]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 06:32 PM
well, we were reading a book in my class that takes place in Cuba and is about a little Cuban boy who is about to leave his country and parents to study in Miami. This is around the beginning of the post revolution era, where people were still allowed to go to the US and come back. Anyway, we started to read references of Cuba's poverty. She asked us if anyone knew why Cuba was so poor. I said that it was mostly due to the US embargo on the Cuban economy, and she said no, that it was due to the economic order that Cuba had, Fidel Castro's regimen. She was saying how it was a very idealist thing, but always ended up in a totalitarian government, or a dictatorship. She also called China communist, which was really retarded. She was telling us how human nature does not work well with communism because people are not suited to share and be cooperative. She glorified US capitalism and said how we were lucky cuz we had all these commodities due to the free market that allowed all the goods to rain down on all, obviously not the case. She made Cuba look really bad and even made some people yell with shock because she was saying how Castro was oppressive because he controlled them and how she felt so sorry for them. Poor ***** :D
Atleast 2 of my teachers in highschool said that exact same thing. Especially this line:


She was telling us how human nature does not work well with communism because people are not suited to share and be cooperative

I've heard that from my highschool teachers so many times its nuts.

[Tormented by Treachery]

While we're right here, why doesn't one of the more enlightened members tell a poor high school student such as myself how to respond to this.

[Sentinel]

She was telling us how human nature does not work well with communism because people are not suited to share and be cooperative.

A nice way to teach kids cynicism and egoism.. :angry:
Is it not possible to get her in some kind of trouble for that statement? Are you going to a public or a private school? I'd try if that happened where I live.


She glorified US capitalism and said how we were lucky cuz we had all these commodities due to the free market that allowed all the goods to rain down on all

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Really no wonder the US proletariat is so deluded, if this kind of teaching is the norm.
Thankfully there are people wo see through that bullshit. :)

[Ol' Dirty]

Have a converation with her, and tell her you highly disagree. If your argument is good enough, she cant's really say stuff like that without abridging your rights under the first amendment. Write a paper, with few gramatical, punctuation and spelling (hopefully none) errors, and tell her what you think. The pen is stronger than the sword, or, in this case, the keyboard.

[metalero]

She was telling us how human nature does not work well with communism because people are not suited to share and be cooperative

This is an idea that capitalism glorifiers bring when discussing about socialism; I've discussed it with almost every person that pretend to know about communism. This is called the "school of self-interest", an idealist myth to justify selfishness and greed that capitalist structure impose on human beings. Why human beings are so cooperative when producing the goods, but not at all when socializing the wealth is made from them? this obeys not to natural laws, or god's will, but rather to social relations created from the process of trasnforming nature. Historical materialism explain clearly why the majority of people work for a living wage while there's a minority who owns the means of production and the wealth.

[CubaSocialista]

Humyn nature doesn't actually exist as something defined by any study humynity has at its disposal. Human nature is what we make of it. Children will be greedy when they are fed and taught accordingly. The Soviet Union went from a backwards trashcan in the 1900's to a superpower by 1930. Yep, communism really failed there!

And you might want to mention Castro's literacy rates, the healthcare standards, the prevalence of CIA-supported terrorists on the island that make the security measures necessary, and of course, the existence of a black market testifies to the little intrusion government really has on individual lives.
Look up "Cuban Democracy" in google and you'll find some interesting things, particularly by college professors, etc.

Go for it.

The last teacher who tried to talk me down about communism said "You've got a point..." when I was finished. To avoid looking like a know-it-all nerd, I left it at that.

[cbm989]

"The last teacher who tried to talk me down about communism said "You've got a point..." when I was finished. To avoid looking like a know-it-all nerd, I left it at that. "

i'd really like to know what you said. ive dreamed of doing that. so please share

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 08:47 PM


i'd really like to know what you said. ive dreamed of doing that. so please share
Do it! If not you will regret it.

[La Comédie Noire]

A good way to respond to this is to say "American Capitalism maybe good for America but every other country It's In turns to shit. China, Taiwan, other sweat shop producing countries. As for human nature you have to prove without a shadow of a doubt that It stays constant through diffrent forms of society and sicne we have only had society and groupings of people working against eachother, except maybe the Indians, you have no proof that It is ever constant. Tell you what If you stop being a narrow minded Patriot and try Communism, and If I am wrong and human nature does Infact stay constant than I'll stop being a stubborn Communist"

Using the Indians as an example of how communism could work, atleast In the sense of everyone sharing, is your best bet at tripping some Human Nature asshole up.

[In Search of True Thinkers]

I have made teacher's eat there own words, due to their lack of knowledge, before and even got kicked out last year in large part for an essay I wrote on Venezuela.

To be frank, usually a teacher's main weakness is there lack of knowledge on the topic and a general assumption that their students will not rbuke them. Well, if you feel you are right you should reply with your view, though it is not as easy as it sounds. Simply saying "Cuba is good" will not satisy. You must have a decent backround in political theory and at least a basic knowledge of what you re talking about. Ther is no one thing you can say, because as soon as that teacher questions you on something else you may not know what to say, becuase you were simply repeating words in the first place.

I have gotten in a debate with my government teacher, whom happens to be liberal, and informed her of the social success the Cuban populace has enjoyed along with many personal freedoms. In the end she was beaten and I knew due to the chuckles coming from a room full of students who knew the teacher was now replying only in threats to remove me from the class if I kept inerrupting.

Good luck in your learning
-Mitch

[Soheran]

Well, firstly, the assertion that "Cuba is poor" is false. It has the lowest infant mortality rates and the highest life expectancies in Latin America. It is true that its per capita income is low, however (though hardly so when compared to many other Latin American countries), but then again Cuba has never had the inclination to develop a great deal industrially. With the collapse of the Soviet Union that may change.

You may want to point out that every Cuban has some basic rights huge portions of the US population lack - like access to decent universal health care - and as a result, even under the embargo it beats even the US on such measures as infant mortality.

You could ask something along the lines of "which is more important - cell phones and fancy cars, or the lives of our children?"

Then you can get into a theoretical argument with her. Ask her whether capitalism violates human nature, too, because the basic mechanism of the capitalist economy - workers selling their labor to owners - is "cooperation." Point out that the difference between capitalism and socialism is not cooperation vs. competition, as the right-libertarians want us all to believe, but rather egalitarian cooperation vs. hierarchical cooperation.

If someone brings up "individual rights," ask them what "individual rights" means to all the "individuals" working long hours for negligible wages in sweatshops across the planet - people who have next to no choice in workplace, and whose "consumer choice" is completely focused on basic survival. Point out that "economic freedom" is not really "freedom" but rather the capability of the wealthy to oppress and exploit everyone else.

[red team]

I think generosity and altruism is forthcoming from the majority people on the most part when they feel that their participation in the act of generosity or altruism doesn't cost them a significant loss in time or material wealth on their part. What I'm saying is that what would make Communism really work and lasting is if productive forces in society are developed to the point where cooperation and sharing becomes a win-win situation for both the one doing the giving and the recipient or at least doesn't make the giver feel as if he or she is sacrificing too much of their own personal resources when participating in the act of generosity and hence a sucker for everybody else.


Red Team

[Rawthentic]

the funny shit is that i live in California and my teacher is a foreign exchange teacher from Spain! So now we see how much work we have to do! fuck man. thanks for the comments COMRADES

[Scars]

On the subject of stupid teachers, I was informed that sweatshops were a positive addition to India because they provided jobs.

[JKP]

Hey, did you guys know that human nature has little to do with communism?

[barista.marxista]

Originally posted by Tormented by [email protected] 1 2006, 06:53 PM
While we're right here, why doesn't one of the more enlightened members tell a poor high school student such as myself how to respond to this.
I'm reposting this from an old thread months ago:

This is a common counter-argument to anarchism/socialism/communism, with a very simple answer: there is no evidence, upon a material study of the history of man, that man's human nature is greed; quite the contrary, all evidence supports the notion that man has no concrete nature, but rather his nature evolves with his material environment. Here are two short readings in which Marx explains this:

Marx, from The German Ideology, 1845
"First Premises of Material Method" (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/german-ideology/ch01a.htm#a2)

Marx, from Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844
Estranged Labour (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/labour.htm)

This comes to about 11 pages, and even all of "Estranged Labour" isn't exactly on point, though it explains the relationship between human nature and capitalism. Hope it helps.

[red team]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 05:24 AM
Hey, did you guys know that human nature has little to do with communism?
Oh yes it does

example:
If I'm a coal miner working under present day technology my job would be more physically demanding then lets say an office clerk. I and most other workers would demand more compensation for their work simply because from my perspective I'm doing a lot more work than the office clerk and therefore is entitled to more of the socially produced wealth. Beside being "unfair" in that more work will be exchanged for an equal amount of material compensation very few people are going to volunatarily agree to this arrangement. Your only chance is if you make all types work able to be completed with equal effort or a minimal difference in effort, so people don't mind because its trivial. You should know better -- "productive forces of society, etc ..." Its classic Marx.


Red Team

[Atlas Swallowed]

Teachers work for the government. Most of what they teach is government propaganda and out right bullshit. All I learned in highschool was authority should be resisted by the hypocritcal bullshit they spoon fed me. Ask your teacher if China is in fact Communist then why are thier mult-nationaled corporations thier exploiting the people? Why aren't the people working for the state as they are in all other Communist countries? I do not know what you would classify Chinas current government as besides bad real fucking bad.

[Comrade Ben]

I had a teacher tell the class once that all communist countries wished to "eat their own children" (actual quote!) and that they where all lazy people in the USSR, who did not produce anything. He coninued to state that Lenin was a pedafile, and that Stalin was a homosexual. I lost it at that remark, and got up infront of the class, and rebuked every word he said. He kicked me out. The next day, I retuned with nearly 83 pages of actual facts on Lenin, Stalin, the USSR production rates, and countless other facts that disproved him. He failed me. I had never gotten less than an A on any assignment. When I brought5 my grade sheet to my principal, he asked why my teacher would do such a thing. I said "because I'm a communist." My principal hasn't spoken to me since, and wont meet with me. Damn capitalistic propaganda!

[Atlas Swallowed]

I think your teacher had Communists and hamsters confused its quite common among recovering paint huffers. Its nice to see highschool has not changed in the past 17 years, my sympathies.

[Sentinel]

Originally posted by Comrade Ben
that Stalin was a homosexual.

Did he specify how this "fact" affected the production, or anything, in the USSR? How did he say it was relevant to the subject? And, when did this happen?

I find this incredible, unless you go to a private, religious shool or something. But then again I've never lived in the US.. Is outright homophobia "OK" for public school teachers there?

Where I live this would lead to at very least a serious warning to the teacher in question, even though this is a capitalist country and kids are told cappie propaganda at school..

[Atlas Swallowed]

When I went to highschool in the 80s I got into a fight in my senior year. Two gym teachers held me while the asswipe I was fighting(actually he was doing more running hit me repeatedly). A wealthy kid brought a loaded hand gun into school got off scot free. A week later my brother was sent to Juvinile school because he had a dud hand grenade in his bookbag, which he never took out he was ratted on by a so called friend. I was voted onto student council in my junior year, I was denied the position(treasurer for reasons unknown even now). I cursed out the teacher in charge of the student council, called him every name in the book in front of all elected members of the student council(approxiamately 50 students). He would not even acknoledge my presence, my only regret is that I did not punch the prick. Picked up and slammed into the wall on three occassions by three different teachers, some examples of my fun filled stay in highschool. Public schools in the US are a fucking joke, one of several reasons why thier are so many stupid Americans.

[JKP]

Originally posted by red team+Feb 2 2006, 01:56 AM--> (red team @ Feb 2 2006, 01:56 AM)
[email protected] 2 2006, 05:24 AM
Hey, did you guys know that human nature has little to do with communism?
Oh yes it does

example:
If I'm a coal miner working under present day technology my job would be more physically demanding then lets say an office clerk. I and most other workers would demand more compensation for their work simply because from my perspective I'm doing a lot more work than the office clerk and therefore is entitled to more of the socially produced wealth. Beside being "unfair" in that more work will be exchanged for an equal amount of material compensation very few people are going to volunatarily agree to this arrangement. Your only chance is if you make all types work able to be completed with equal effort or a minimal difference in effort, so people don't mind because its trivial. You should know better -- "productive forces of society, etc ..." Its classic Marx.


Red Team [/b]
Labour vouchers.

[Psy]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 2 2006, 04:25 PM
I had a teacher tell the class once that all communist countries wished to "eat their own children" (actual quote!) and that they where all lazy people in the USSR, who did not produce anything. He coninued to state that Lenin was a pedafile, and that Stalin was a homosexual. I lost it at that remark, and got up infront of the class, and rebuked every word he said. He kicked me out. The next day, I retuned with nearly 83 pages of actual facts on Lenin, Stalin, the USSR production rates, and countless other facts that disproved him. He failed me. I had never gotten less than an A on any assignment. When I brought5 my grade sheet to my principal, he asked why my teacher would do such a thing. I said "because I'm a communist." My principal hasn't spoken to me since, and wont meet with me. Damn capitalistic propaganda!
And you couldn't get your fellow students to strike or riot? Did they now know of the student occupation of the computer room of Sir George Williams (Monteral) in January 29, 1969 were students protested a racist professor?

When did the youth come such a bunch of fucking conformist?

[Goatse]

The problem is that teachers just say, "Don't try to argue with me," "Stop being cheeky," or "I am right, don't keep arguing." Fascists.

[Psy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 09:24 PM
The problem is that teachers just say, "Don't try to argue with me," "Stop being cheeky," or "I am right, don't keep arguing." Fascists.
And in the 60's teachers were racist thus students occupied educational institutions even though they knew it would mean being beaten up by police.

[( R )evolution]

I have a teacher who knows the faults with capitalism but wont accepted that communism is a option. He says that communism's wont work cause of the leaders becoming corrupt such as Stalin. I on countless days informed him of how the USSR was not communist but he has yet to realize it. But he is smart enough to know that China is not communist but he thinks that a revolution will never happen. But this is World Geography and I am in 9th grade. Once I get into classes that actually deal with economics or politics I will be able to openly dis-prove the state run school system's books that mis-inform there readers.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 2 2006, 04:25 PM
I had a teacher tell the class once that all communist countries wished to "eat their own children" (actual quote!) and that they where all lazy people in the USSR, who did not produce anything. He coninued to state that Lenin was a pedafile, and that Stalin was a homosexual. I lost it at that remark, and got up infront of the class, and rebuked every word he said.
Your teacher confused Lenin with Lavrenti Beria; he was the alleged KGB officer who went around Moscow at night abducting little girls.

As for Stalin being a homosexual, hes got that confused with Hilter; though he killed homosexuals, he knowingly let some homosexuals lead Jugend circles, because they would be devoted, they didn't have anyother commitments--also, Hilter may have or not spent "some times" with the Jugend Kaptians. I've heard that Stalin was a wife-beater, but who really knows.