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Orthodox Marxist
30th January 2006, 14:29
Its a shame that ownthink would post something like that I usually enjoy reading his posts


And someone tell me what the hell ecofascism is.

an extreme form of environmentalism basically the people who hold that "placing bombs or engaging in sabotage of corporations who destroy the environment is valid" One of those fanatics stuck foot long sharpened razor blades inside of trees and when a mill worker put it through the machine to make the tree into planks the blade flew out and decapitated him

Eoin Dubh
31st January 2006, 21:38
Originally posted by Red Marxist [email protected] 30 2006, 02:48 PM

an extreme form of environmentalism basically the people who hold that "placing bombs or engaging in sabotage of corporations who destroy the environment is valid" One of those fanatics stuck foot long sharpened razor blades inside of trees and when a mill worker put it through the machine to make the tree into planks the blade flew out and decapitated him
When have enviromentalists planted bombs? Fire "bombs" (consisting of a plastic jug filled with gas and a slow burning wick) sure, but actual "ka-boom" bombs?

Foot long sharpened razors????
I don't believe this at all. Could you please provide a link or source.
It sounds like outrageous fantasy to me.
Here is an detailed explanation of what "Eco fascism" really is, from a Left-Biocentric perspective:
(Link to source at bottom)
-------------------------------------------------------------

Ecofascism: What is It?
A Left Biocentric Analysis
By David Orton

Many supporters of the deep ecology movement have been uncomfortable and on the
defensive concerning the question of ecofascism, because of criticism levelled against them,
such as for example from some supporters of social ecology, who present themselves as
more knowledgeable on social matters. (The term “social ecology” implies this.) This bulletin
is meant to change this situation. I will try to show why I have arrived at the conclusion,
after investigation, that “ecofascism” has come to be used mainly as an attack term, with
social ecology roots, against the deep ecology movement and its supporters plus, more
generally, the environmental movement. Thus, “ecofascist” and “ecofascism”, are used not
to enlighten but to smear.
I will also argue that the social ecology-derived use of “ecofascist” against deep ecology
should be criticized and discarded as sectarian, human-centered, self-serving dogmatism,
and moreover, even from an anarchist perspective, totally in opposition to the open-minded
spirit say of anarchist Emma Goldman. (See her autobiography Living My Life and in it,
the account of the magazine she founded, Mother Earth.)
What seems to have happened with “ecofascism”, is that a term whose origins and use
reflect a particular form of human social, political and economic organization, now, with a
prefix “eco”, becomes used against environmentalists who generally are sympathetic to a
particular non-human centered and Nature-based radical environmental philosophy -
deep ecology. Yet supporters of deep ecology, if they think about the concept of ecofascism,
see the ongoing violent onslaught against Nature and its non-human life forms (plant life,
insects, birds, mammals, etc.) plus indigenous cultures, which is justified as economic
“progress”, as ecofascist destruction!
Since the mid 80's, some writers linked with the human-centered theory of social ecology,
for example Murray Bookchin, have attempted to associate deep ecology with “ecofascism”
and Hitler's “national socialist” movement. See his 1987 essay “Social Ecology Versus
‘Deep Ecology’” based on his divisive, anti-communist and sectarian speech to the
National Gathering of the US Greens in Amherst Massachusetts (e.g. the folk singer Woody
Guthrie was dismissed by Bookchin as “a Communist Party centralist”). There are several
references by Bookchin in this essay, promoting the association of deep ecology with Hitler
and ecofascism. More generally for Bookchin in this article, deep ecology is “an ideological
toxic dump.”

Bookchin’s essay presented the view that deep ecology is a reactionary movement. With
its bitter and self-serving tone, it helped to poison needed intellectual exchanges between
deep ecology and social ecology supporters. This essay also outlined, in fundamental
opposition to deep ecology, that in Bookchin’s social ecology there is a special role for
humans. Human thought is “nature rendered self-conscious.” The necessary human purpose
is to consciously change nature and, arrogantly, “to consciously increase biotic diversity.”
According to Bookchin, social arrangements are crucial in whether or not the human purpose
(as seen by social ecology) can be carried out. These social arrangements include a non-
hierarchical society, mutual aid, local autonomy, communalism, etc. - all seen as part of the
anarchist tradition. For social ecology, there do not seem to be natural laws to which humans
and their civilizations must conform or perish. The basic social ecology perspective is human
interventionist. Nature can be moulded to human interests.

Another ‘argument’ is to refer to some extreme or reactionary statement by somebody of
prominence who supports deep ecology. For example, Bookchin calls Dave Foreman an
“ecobrutalist”, and uses this to smear by association all deep ecology supporters - and to
further negate the worth of the particular individual, denying the validity of their overall life's
work. Foreman was one of the key figures in founding Earth First! He went on to do and
promote crucial restoration ecology work in the magazine Wild Earth, which he helped found,
and on the Wildlands Project. Overall he has, and continues to make, a substantial
contribution. He has never made any secret of his right-of-center original political views and
often showered these rightist views in uninformed comments in print, on what he saw as
“leftists” in the movement. The environmental movement recruits from across class, although
there is a class component to environmental struggles.

Bookchin’s comments about Foreman (of course social ecology is without blemish and has
no need for self criticism!), are equivalent to picking up some backward and reactionary
action or statement of someone like Gandhi, and using this to dismiss his enormous
contribution and moral authority. Gandhi for example recruited Indians for the British side
in the Zulu rebellion and the Boer War in South Africa; and in the Second World War in
1940, Gandhi wrote an astonishing appeal “To every Briton” counselling them to give up
and accept whatever fate Hitler had for them, but not to give up their souls or their minds!
But Gandhi's influence remains substantial within the deep ecology movement, and
particularly for someone like Arne Naess, the original and a continuing philosophical
inspiration. Naess is dismissed by Bookchin as “grand Pontiff” in his essay
http://home.ca.inter.net/~greenweb/Ecofascism.html

which doctor
31st January 2006, 21:53
Originally posted by Eoin [email protected] 31 2006, 04:57 PM
When have enviromentalists planted bombs? Fire "bombs" (consisting of a plastic jug filled with gas and a slow burning wick) sure, but actual "ka-boom" bombs?

Foot long sharpened razors????
I don't believe this at all. Could you please provide a link or source.
It sounds like outrageous fantasy to me.
No, ecotage is very common. It isn't a fantasy.

Activities linked to ecotage.


The ELF's first major action was an October 19, 1998, arson attack on the Vail Mountain ski resort in Vail, Colorado, causing $12 million in damage.[4]

December 25, 1999 in Monmouth, Oregon Fire destroys the main office of the Boise Cascade logging company costing over $1 million. ELF claim responsibility in a communiqué.

On August 1, 2003 a 206-unit condominium being built in San Diego, California was burnt down causing damage in excess of $20 million. A 12 foot banner at the scene read "If you build it, we will burn it," signed, "The E.L.F.s are mad." [5] — sympathizers often refer to themselves as "elfs".

On August 22, 2003 arsonists associated with the group attacked several car dealerships in east suburban Los Angeles, burning down a warehouse and vandalizing several cars. All told, more than 100 cars were damaged or destroyed causing an excess of a million dollars in damages, most of them SUVs or Hummers which were targeted due to their lower than average fuel efficiency. [6]

On September 12, 2003, Federal agents arrested Pomona, California resident Joshua Thomas Connole in connection with the August 22nd 2003 Los Angeles area arsons. [7] Apparently, the FBI profiled Connole based on his anti-war protest activities. [8] He was soon released due to lack of evidence. [9] The FBI awarded Connole $100,000 and agreed to give him an apology after he filed a lawsuit against the agency.[10]

On April 19, 2005 William Jensen Cottrell, a Caltech graduate student, was convicted of firebombing Sport utility vehicles and was sentenced to more than eight years in federal prison and ordered to pay $3.5 million. [11]

On December 7, 2005 six people were arrested in New York, Virginia, Oregon, and Arizona in connection with attacks a series of different arsons in Oregon Washington between 1998 and 2001.[12] Six others received Grand Jury subpoenas and a seventh individual is still considered at large. The arrests and ongoing investigation sent chills through the intertwined radical environmental, animal rights and anarchists communities who dubbed the arrests as the start of the 'green scare', a term which references historical red scares which were particularly repressive times for leftists.

On January 20, 2006, eleven people, including the above mentioned six, were indicted on various charges related to ELF/ALF attacks. These were mostly arsons involving targets such as the U.S. Forest Service ranger stations, U.S. Bureau of Land Management wild horse slaughterhouses/holding pens, lumber companies, meat processing companies, a ski area built on old growth forest, and a power line. Eight of the defendants have been arrested and the other three are believed out of the country.

And tree-spiking...


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Tree spiking is a form of sabotage which involves hammering a metal rod or other material into a tree trunk in order to discourage logging and to injure or kill loggers. It is often referred to as a form of Eco-terrorism.

It is believed that tree spiking originated in timber logging labor disputes in the Pacific Northwest of the United States in the late 1800s. It came to prominence as a contentious tactic within radical environmentalist circles during the 1980s, after it was advocated by Earth First! co-founder Dave Foreman in his book Ecodefense.

Some tree spikers tend to mark the spiked trees, ostensibly to deter the harvesting of the spiked trees. Some sawmill operators check trees with metal detectors prior to milling. In turn, Foreman advocated the use of ceramic spikes which would be impossible for the metal detectors to register.

While Foreman claimed that injury to humans was an unlikely consequence of tree-spiking if the spiking was made known to authorities or logging companies, the tactic was condemned not only by the companies themselves, but by labor interests and, eventually, other members of Earth First!.

In 1987, California mill worker George Alexander was seriously injured when the bandsaw he was operating was shattered by a tree spike. While both the County sheriff and Alexander's employers, Louisiana-Pacific, blamed environmentalists for the spiking, when Earth First! activist Judi Bari obtained the sheriff's files on the incident some years later, she discovered that one of the suspects for the spiking was Bill Ervin, a 50 year old property-owner, unconnected with Earth First. While Ervin freely admitted spiking trees on his own land to prevent Louisiana-Pacific from taking timber on his side of the property line, he was never charged with spiking the tree that injured Alexander.

Tree spiking was declared a federal felony in the United States in 1988. 18 U.S. Code 1864.

In 1990, Earth First leader Judi Bari led activists in Northern California and Southern Oregon to renounce tree-spiking as a tactic on the eve of Redwood Summer, a 1990 campaign of nonviolent protests against logging of the redwood forest [1].

Eoin Dubh
31st January 2006, 22:14
Thanks for the quick response Fist of blood.
I know "ecotage" is very common.

The fantasy I spoke of was the ridiculously laughable statement of foot long razors :lol: !

You mentioned lots of arsons, which I know of, but still no "ka-boom".
Again, when have ecoteurs placed an actual explosive ka-boom style bomb with metal shrapnel and explosive powder? ( The Neo-Luddite Unabomber not withstanding as he was not an ecoteur, he did not conduct ecotage.)


In 1987, California mill worker George Alexander was seriously injured when the bandsaw he was operating was shattered by a tree spike. While both the County sheriff and Alexander's employers, Louisiana-Pacific, blamed environmentalists for the spiking, when Earth First! activist Judi Bari obtained the sheriff's files on the incident some years later, she discovered that one of the suspects for the spiking was Bill Ervin, a 50 year old property-owner, unconnected with Earth First. While Ervin freely admitted spiking trees on his own land to prevent Louisiana-Pacific from taking timber on his side of the property line, he was never charged with spiking the tree that injured Alexander.

Wow.
Just one person injured in the whole history of tree spiking. And no fatalities. Gee thats a lot! The hype of "eco terrorism" cannot ever stand up to cold, hard, facts.
And that was done by a property owner who had his timber stolen by the corporation!


Have you heard of Judi Bari?
Look into how her public and non violent approach ( and tree spiking is non violent) was dealt with by our good friends in capitalist industry and the government.

I am afraid that some revleft members have a rather rightwing mindset when it comes to radical environmentalism.

Orthodox Marxist
1st February 2006, 18:44
The fantasy I spoke of was the ridiculously laughable statement of foot long razors !


It actually happened my teacher worked at the same mill as the guy who ended up getting decapitated

dannie
1st February 2006, 22:26
Tree spiking can be an extremely effective method of deterring timber sales, and seems to be growing more and more popular. Mill operators are quite wary of accepting timber that may be contaminated with hidden metal objects, *saws are expensive, and a "spiked" log can literally bring operations to a screeching halt, at least until a new blade can be put into service. The Forest Service and timber industry are very nervous about spiking-when they or the media raise the subject of monkeywrenching, this is the form most commonly discussed. Agency and industry officials are loath, however, to raise the subject. Indeed, the Forest Service (FS) often fails to publicize incidents of spiking, on the theory that the less the practice is publicized, the less likely it is to spread. When the Freddies (FS officials) do publicly acknowledge that a spiking has occurred, they often make a considerable effort to find the perpe*trators, even to the point of offering substantial cash rewards. (No modern-day tree spiker has been caught, however.)

http://www.omnipresence.mahost.org/ch3txt.htm

if anyone is more interested, check out the link

Eoin Dubh
1st February 2006, 22:26
Originally posted by Red Marxist [email protected] 1 2006, 07:03 PM

The fantasy I spoke of was the ridiculously laughable statement of foot long razors !


It actually happened my teacher worked at the same mill as the guy who ended up getting decapitated
No, it didn't.
Which mill? Where? When? Etc.

Eoin Dubh
1st February 2006, 22:33
Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 10:45 PM

(No modern-day tree spiker has been caught, however.)

http://www.omnipresence.mahost.org/ch3txt.htm

if anyone is more interested, check out the link
That Quote is from "Ecodefense" compiled by Dave Foreman.
Unfortunately it is no longer true that no modern day tree spiker has been caught.
In 1997 two guys were caught in British Colombias Kootenay region, the echo of hammers on spikes could be heard from far up the valley as they did not put a silicone dab on the nail head which acts as a silencer.
I also heard an unconfirmed report of someone getting caught in Oregon.

Orthodox Marxist
2nd February 2006, 14:43
No, it didn't.
Which mill? Where? When? Etc.




I dont know my teacher never said which mill but he did say it happened in the 70's I think

Lord Testicles
2nd February 2006, 19:09
Originally posted by Red Marxist [email protected] 2 2006, 03:02 PM

No, it didn't.
Which mill? Where? When? Etc.




I dont know my teacher never said which mill but he did say it happened in the 70's I think
I think it happens on a regular basis.

Eoin Dubh
2nd February 2006, 22:10
Originally posted by Skinz+Feb 2 2006, 07:28 PM--> (Skinz @ Feb 2 2006, 07:28 PM)
Red Marxist [email protected] 2 2006, 03:02 PM

No, it didn't.
Which mill? Where? When? Etc.




I dont know my teacher never said which mill but he did say it happened in the 70's I think
I think it happens on a regular basis.[/b]
B.S.
Let's see some actual hard evidence. It is all myth, I don't believe it for a second.

Saw mills routinely encounter old barb wire, nails etc. in trees, and there is no massive body count from any of this.
Falling timber is way more dangerous than working in a mill.

Delirium
2nd February 2006, 23:28
Originally posted by Eoin [email protected] 31 2006, 09:57 PM
Foot long sharpened razors????
I don't believe this at all. Could you please provide a link or source.
It sounds like outrageous fantasy to me.


I'm glad that someone here entertains the idea that environmentalism and leftism aren't mutually exclusive. This term "ecofascism" is about as credible as dubya's "islamo-fascism".

Hats of to ya, Eoin Dubh! :D