What exactly is my "title?"

[YoUnG192]

Ok I hate to make a thread about this but help me out....

One who believes in Marxism is a Marxist, one who believes in capitalism is a capitalist, correct?

Well I believe in adopting many socialist programs while maintaining the kind of private ownership normally associated with capitalism. What title does that give me? Also does anyone know any readings I should look up on or any other websites that deals with that topic? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Zingu]

One who believes in Marxism is a Marxist, one who believes in capitalism is a capitalist, correct?


Two different things. Being a capitalist means you are a member of the property owning class.

Being a Marxist means you take a historical materialist approach when looking at class society.

[DisIllusion]

Keynesian? Those economic polices are pretty moderate, though slightly leaning to the left.

[BuyOurEverything]

Depending on how much social spending you support, you're probably either a social democrat or a reform liberal, both of which are forms of capitalism.

[Tupac-Amaru]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 07:15 AM
Keynesian? Those economic polices are pretty moderate, though slightly leaning to the left.
Yeah I think that could be a good definition. Keynesians use fical policy to stimulate aggregate demand and fund social programs aimed at reducing unemployment.

[YoUnG192]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 07:14 AM

One who believes in Marxism is a Marxist, one who believes in capitalism is a capitalist, correct?


Two different things. Being a capitalist means you are a member of the property owning class.

Being a Marxist means you take a historical materialist approach when looking at class society.
No shyt sherlock.

Thanks to all others who helped out.

[Zingu]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 02:42 PM

No shyt sherlock.

Thanks to all others who helped out.
Well, you obviously didn't know that if you said "a capitalist is a person who believes in capitalism".

[Columbia]

This capitalist concept has been blurred by people's language.

Many people at RevolutionaryLeft.com will tell you that there are no socialist nations, and that countries like Sweden are not socialist, because they haven't evolved (let's use that word) to the point where workers control the tools of production (in theory, achieved through revolution), and the state would then become less and less necessary.

But of course, the real world still calls Sweden a democratic-socialist country, and it really is, because the safety net is so all encompassing, that it may as well be.


People call me a capitalist, though I only have 50 shares of a company stock, and have a regular job. Thought from a Marxist point of view, I'm not part of the ruling class that owns production.


You are what you do.

[YoUnG192]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 06:41 PM
This capitalist concept has been blurred by people's language.

Many people at RevolutionaryLeft.com will tell you that there are no socialist nations, and that countries like Sweden are not socialist, because they haven't evolved (let's use that word) to the point where workers control the tools of production (in theory, achieved through revolution), and the state would then become less and less necessary.

But of course, the real world still calls Sweden a democratic-socialist country, and it really is, because the safety net is so all encompassing, that it may as well be.


People call me a capitalist, though I only have 50 shares of a company stock, and have a regular job. Thought from a Marxist point of view, I'm not part of the ruling class that owns production.


You are what you do.
Sweden is exactly what I thought.

Sweden is a country that has many socialist programs like paid medical and dental care, maternity expenses, free education from kindergarden to college, 16 years and under get free meals books and school supplies, if over 16 you get a monthly allowance from the government as long as you remain in school. So many socialist programs, too many to name. They have all this, yet they maintain private ownership. Economists call Sweden the "middle way." Well I like that idea alot.

[Sentinel]

Originally posted by Columbia+--> (Columbia) But of course, the real world still calls Sweden a democratic-socialist country, and it really is [/b]

No it isn't. There just are different types of capitalist governing.


YoUnG192
Sweden is a country that has many socialist programs like paid medical and dental care,

Not anymore, dental health has actually become a class issue here. Where do you live?

Huge privatisations in the last twenty years have stripped away a lot of the benefits workers have achieved during the last century. Sweden is no paradise by any means,
even though it certainly still is a safer place to live than say the US.

[YoUnG192]

Where do you live?

U.S/New York City.


Sweden is no paradise by any means,
even though it certainly still is a safer place to live than say the US.

Yeah much safer, then again many European countries are safer than the U.S. Maybe I just have a thing for Swedish women :wub: oh well.

[Columbia]

The Sentinal,

Remember you're at the OPPOSING IDEOLOGIES board, and naturally you should expect to find people who don't view things in the same way you or other commies view them.

You say Sweden is a capitalist country with a greater social safety net, and I say it's a socialist country with a democracy. Since I take issue with the whole of what the Revolutionary socialists view, don't be suprised if I use different terms to discuss the same issues you mention.

Also, I never said Sweden was a paradise.

From my point of view, America is the closest to paradise any nation has yet achieved. I don't want a socialist nation and that great of a safety net as Sweden has voted for. It's a big wide world out there. If one doesn't like the American way, and feels trying to change it in their lifetime is too great a challenge, then they can immigrate to where they will be the happiest.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 08:06 PM
The Sentinal,

Remember you're at the OPPOSING IDEOLOGIES board, and naturally you should expect to find people who don't view things in the same way you or other commies view them.

You say Sweden is a capitalist country with a greater social safety net, and I say it's a socialist country with a democracy. Since I take issue with the whole of what the Revolutionary socialists view, don't be suprised if I use different terms to discuss the same issues you mention.

Also, I never said Sweden was a paradise.

From my point of view, America is the closest to paradise any nation has yet achieved. I don't want a socialist nation and that great of a safety net as Sweden has voted for. It's a big wide world out there. If one doesn't like the American way, and feels trying to change it in their lifetime is too great a challenge, then they can immigrate to where they will be the happiest.
Ah you see thats the problem. Young192 started this thread, he is American. Why would he want to go to Sweden? I've heard that so much, people telling me, "Well you like communism? Yeah well go to Cuba." Well no it doesn't work like that.

I myself like some of the social programs in Sweden, doesn't mean am going to move there, am not Swedish, am American. The whole idea is not to immigrate where you would be happiest in, but to fight for what you believe in your own country so everyone can have the benefits. Its not me me me me me.

[Sentinel]

Columbia,

I of course recognize your right to express your views in OI, as long as you follow the rules. But I also challenge them if they are against my views, or acknowledged facts.

Claiming Sweden to be a "socialist state", for example, is in my opinion absurd.


Originally posted by Wikipedia
Socialism is an ideology of a social and economic system where the means of production are owned and controlled by all of society. This would ideally eliminate extremely unfair distribution of wealth. The idea of abolition of private property became a part of the idea in the early 19th century.

Sweden doesn't meet these standards by any means. Even though some "socialist" elements may exist, calling Sweden a "socialist state" is like calling a ladybug black
if you see what I mean.

Even though the social democrats and other reformists may sometimes claim themselves to be socialist, I don't see how they are.

They are only trying to sooth the working class with their "safety net" to avoid the inevitable, a revolution by the proletariat. Or to be more exact, were.

These days they are abandoning the welfare state policy and privatising with an accelerating speed. :angry:

[Columbia]

Full Metal Jacket,

1. I liked that movie.

2. I agree with what you wrote, and didn't mean to imply that America should remain as capitalist as it is, or that Sweden should remain as socialist as it is. Yes, all should fight for what they believe in.

If the U.S. moves to the left, and wants to do just that because of hard working people who convinced Americans we'd be happier and they achieved that through constitutional means, I totally accept such a thing. If this is your fight or part of it, good for you. keep on fighting.



The Sentinal,

Hee hee. That face you made was cute. But don't make it at me, it's not my struggle. Make it at the Swedes who wish to move the nation to the right.

And what you see as backsliding I see as the normal process of change, experimentation, pressures on the system. the usual stuff that bothers governments.

[Rockfan]

I know it dosen't have anything to do with the thread YoUnG192 but that looks like John Toogood from a kiwi band called Shihad and thats a shot from one of there vidios.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 01:25 AM
I know it dosen't have anything to do with the thread YoUnG192 but that looks like John Toogood from a kiwi band called Shihad and thats a shot from one of there vidios.
Are you serious? It's obviously Malcolm Mcdowell from Clockwork Orange. A great movie. I cannot believe you haven't seen it. :angry:

[Columbia]

If you haven't seen Clockwork Orange you should run and rent a copy ASAP. And that icon/avatar has become a part of pop culture. You can buy it in poster form in Westwood (that's part of Los Angeles).

[Rockfan]

Hahahaha thats cracking me up, I guess John was copying him hahahahaha. I've heard of the movie but yeah just never seen it. Fuck Shihad are the shit yeah.