Malcolm X on Homosexuality&Womans rights

[ReD_ReBeL]

so what was Malcolm's outlook on Homosexuality and Womans Rights? Because muslims tend to be against homosexuality as an act and also view men as superior to woman. but didn't Malcolm X not view woman as equals? but im not sure bout homosexuality i've never read anything of his on it.

[Severian]

I'm not aware of any statement by Malcolm X on homosexuality. Of course he lived before the emergence of the modern gay rights movement.

Also before the beginning of the "Second Wave" of modern feminism, i.e. at a time when women's rights wasn't a major national issue. He did make a few statements on that question, though:

from one of Malcolm X's last interviews, with an Arabic-langugage Islamic paper. (http://www.malcolm-x.org/docs/int_almus.htm)


AL-MUSLIMOON: Now that you have visited and revisited many Muslim countries, what are your major impressions regarding Islam and Muslims both in the present and in the future?

MALCOLM X: We are standing at the threshold of the nuclear age. Education is a must, especially in this highly technical era. In my opinion, Muslim religious leaders have not stressed the importance of education to the Muslim communities, especially in African countries. Thus when African countries become independent, the non-Muslim areas have the higher degree of educated Africans who are thus the ones best qualified to occupy the newly created positions in government. Muslim religious leaders of today need a more well-rounded type of education and then they will be able to stress the importance of education to the masses, but ofttimes when these religious leaders themselves have very limited knowledge, education, and understanding, sometimes they purposely keep their own people also ignorant in order to continue their own personal position of leadership. They keep the people narrow-minded because they themselves are narrow-minded.

In every Middle East or African country I have visited, I noticed the country is as '"advanced" as its women are, or as backward as its women. By this I mean, in areas where the women have been pushed into the background and kept without education, the whole area or country is just as backward, uneducated, and "underdeveloped." Where the women are encouraged to get education and play a more active role in the allaround affairs of the community and the country, the entire people are more active, more enlightened, and more progressive. Thus, in my opinion, the Muslim religious leaders of today must re-evaluate and spell out with clarity the Muslim position on education in general and education for women in particular. And then a vast program must be launched to elevate the standard of education in the Muslim world. An old African proverb states: "Educate a man and you educate an individual; educate a woman and you educate an entire family."

It's interesting to remember, also, that Malcolm X left the Nation of Islam in part because of Elijah Muhammad's sexual exploitation of female members of the group - which was accompanied by the application of a hypocritical sexual double standard. They were kicked out for having children outside marriage - Elijah Muhammad's children!

[commiecrusader]

In his autobiography he advocates beating women, and suggests that it keeps them on their toes and stops them getting bored :angry:

I think he was also anti-gay rights, but I can't remember if he ever says it outright, I'm not sure.

I admire what he did for black rights, but much of what he advocates is a load of shit.

[Vanguard1917]

Malcolm X:

In every Middle East or African country I have visited, I noticed the country is as '"advanced" as its women are, or as backward as its women.

This is a good observation by Malcolm X. It reminds of Fourier's argument that any society can be judged by the way it treats women. Engels supported this view. Trotsky also applied this idea to the Soviet Union in the late 1930s: 'The position of woman is the most graphic and telling indicator for evaluating a social regime and state policy.'


In his autobiography he advocates beating women, and suggests that it keeps them on their toes and stops them getting bored

I can't defend him there. But it's worth pointing out that such contradictory elements often affect anti-imperialist nationalist movements in the historical process of overthrowing capitalist society. Lenin made a point of saying that such elements within anti-imperialist movements need to be understood historically. It's idealism to want a 'pure' revolution, he said.

[Viva Fidel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 01:12 PM
In his autobiography he advocates beating women, and suggests that it keeps them on their toes and stops them getting bored
can you please cite this? what page was it on?

[Red Flag Rising]

You can pretty well figure out Malcom X's positions by realizing that he was a Black Muslim.

I see him as a reactionary fascist and a capitalist. He advocated Black PROPERTY OWNERSHIP and Black advancement through traditionally capitalist means. His cult of personality and many of his methods were sure-fire fascism. Had he ever had a chance to run some form of government, he leaves no doubt that it would have been a distinctly fascist state.

Do not forget that his "revelation" about there being white Muslims was a bullshit, post-break ploy to better position himself against his former allies. Also, do not forget that he negotiated with the KKK on behalf of the Black Muslims on ways to discredit Martin Luther King.

[La Comédie Noire]

I do not see him as a facist, he never talked about goverment policies like that he rather talked about the way the U.S Goverment treated the black community. He never really expressed an opinion on Capitalism other than the system under paid african americans. H was a civil rights activist so he would think of everything he was fighting for in terms of changing the system, not really reveloutionary but not reactionary either.

[Severian]

Originally posted by Red Flag [email protected] 31 2006, 10:45 PM
You can pretty well figure out Malcom X's positions by realizing that he was a Black Muslim.
Sorry, no. You have to actually read what he said, particularly in the last year of his life when he broke with the NOI and developed in a more and more revolutionary direction.

Even before that, he identified with the world revolution, including the Chinese and Cuban Revolutions. After the break, this became more explicit.

And it was not just a matter of a visit to Mecca, and adopting a liberal view on race, though liberals sometimes try to make it seem that way.

He also travelled through Africa, met revolutionaries there, and adopted an increasingly revolutionary perspective on the fight against racism and imperialism. This did not better position him in relation to the NOI - in fact it led the U.S. government to stand by while NOI violence against him escalated to the point of murder.

From another of his last interviews:

Young Socialist: How do you define Black nationalism, with which you have been identified?

Malcolm X: I used to define Black nationalism as the idea that the Black man should control the economy of his community, the politics of his community, and so forth.

But when I was in Africa in May, in Ghana, I was speaking with the Algerian ambassador who is extremely militant and is a revolutionary in the true sense of the word (and has his credentials as such for having carried on a successful revolution against oppression in his country). When I told him that my political, social, and economic philosophy was Black nationalism, he asked me very frankly: Well, where did that leave him? Because he was white. He was an African, but he was Algerian, and to all appearances, he was a white man. And he said if I define my objective as the victory of Black nationalism, where does that leave him? Where does that leave revolutionaries in Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Mauritania? So he showed me where I was alienating people who were true revolutionaries dedicated to overturning the system of exploitation that exists on this earth by any means necessary.

So I had to do a lot of thinking and reappraising of my definition of Black nationalism. Can we sum up the solution to the problems confronting our people as Black nationalism? And if you notice, I haven’t been using the expression for several months. But I still would be hard pressed to give a specific definition of the overall philosophy which I think is necessary for the liberation of the Black people in this country....
....
Young Socialist: What is your opinion of the worldwide struggle now going on between capitalism and socialism?

Malcolm X: It is impossible for capitalism to survive, primarily because the system of capitalism needs some blood to suck. Capitalism used to be like an eagle, but now it’s more like a vulture. It used to be strong enough to go and suck anybody’s blood whether they were strong or not. But now it has become more cowardly, like the vulture, and it can only suck the blood of the helpless. As the nations of the world free themselves, then capitalism has less victims, less to suck, and it becomes weaker and weaker. It’s only a matter of time in my opinion before it will collapse completely.
link (http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/070.html)

He expressed similar views on capitalism and socialism on other occasions.

Yes, Malcolm X negotiated with the KKK for the Nation of Islam. We know about this because Malcolm X revealed it publicly and denounced it as part of his break with the NOI.

The truth is that much of the U.S. left rejected Malcolm X because he was too revolutionary for them - in his opposition to the Democratic Party, for example.

I don't remember the specific bit from the autobiography mentioned, but you have to keep in mind that most of it is based on sessions with Alex Haley while he was still in the NOI, and describing his actions and attitudes from before that even. I really don't think endorsement of wife-beating is part of the NOI's particular brand of sexism even - they tend to project the man as protector of his family and all that.

[commiecrusader]

Originally posted by Viva Fidel+Feb 1 2006, 04:16 AM--> (Viva Fidel @ Feb 1 2006, 04:16 AM)
[email protected] 31 2006, 01:12 PM
In his autobiography he advocates beating women, and suggests that it keeps them on their toes and stops them getting bored
can you please cite this? what page was it on? [/b]
I cannot I'm afraid as I am at uni and my copy of the book is at home, but if you read it you will find it fairly easily. He isn't sly about it, he doesn't beat around the bush, he just flat out says pretty much that partway through the book.

[bolshevik butcher]

When was that written? As has been mentioned he basically became a socialsit inthe last year of his life, he talked class politics and revolution, and advocated working wtih left wing white poeple.

[commiecrusader]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0...5483772-5037234 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140028242/qid=1138814923/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_3_1/026-5483772-5037234)

There is a link to the exact book I read, although obviously as it's on amazon you can't read it itself. He wrote it towards the end of his life. As I said, I don't know the exact date because I haven't got my copy with me.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Trotsky also applied this idea to the Soviet Union in the late 1930s: '

Wasn't he expelled before the late 1930's?

[UltraLeftGerry]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 09:01 PM

Wasn't he expelled before the late 1930's?
I think in order to show that there was a counterrevolution, Trotsky would have probably discussed the reversal of the role of women in the USSR during the 1930's. Particularly the stressing under Stalin of the traditional family and the abolition of liberal abortion and divorce laws. It's been a while since I read the Revolution Betrayed. :D I believe Trotsky was formally expelled from the USSR in Feb. 1929.

[poetofrageX]

Malcolm X showed several signs of being a socialist in the much later days of his life. he met with several important socialist revolutionaries and leaders, including Che, Kwame Nkrumah and others. He was definately a reactionary in his days with the NOI, but saying he was a reactionary his whole life is stupid, just look at the evidence!

[Ligeia]

I've read his biography and some speeches some months ago and as far as I can remember,there was a speech where he said that he is not really sure and concerned about which system to follow but as many oppressed countries tend to socialism,he,too,would like the oppressed in the u.s. to go this way.And yes,he met a lot of revolutionaries.

And he postulated revolution and considered "revolution" being a fight for land and not peaceful reformism.

And women rights?..hmm...well,I remember he viewed them as equals and was sure that the islam did make women be human beings and not pieces of flesh because you live with your wife due to her soul and not her appearance,but nevertheless,he followed the traditional rituals and he was not obsessed with materiality....I can&#39;t remember enough ,anymore .... <_<

[bayano]

malcolm x, like che guevara and a great many others, died young and early. had they lived, they would have progressed. malcolm x&#39;s heirs to the leadership of Black radicalism usually got progressively better on questions of gender and sexuality, but not bcuz of any great epiphany. it was bcuz of the struggles of wimmin and lgbt within the left. and many who survived the 1960s got progressively better since. i am one who believes malcolm x would have been radically pro-lgbt and anti-sexist had he survived to today, as that is what happened with many of the movements he helped to build.

[FidelCastro]

I like Martin Luther King Jr. more

[Black Dagger]

so what was Malcolm&#39;s outlook on Homosexuality

Who knows? I&#39;ve read his auto-biography, listened to and read collections of his speeches and the subject was never brought up. It would be unfair to assert definitively one way or the other, but it is certainly possible that his position of queer peoples was reactionary but contemporary standards - it would make sense given his historical context. The same could be said for people like Bakunin, Marx, Engels, Lenin, Kropotkin, Rocker whoever - it&#39;s quite possible they were homophobes given their historical context but i&#39;m not aware of any quotes that indicate this.

Malcolm X did often make statements that suggested a widespread acceptance, humanistic sentiments such as:

"I believe in human rights for everyone, and none of us is qualified to judge each other and that none of us should therefore have that authority."

or ""I believe in recognizing every human being as a human being - neither white, black, brown, or red; and when you are dealing with humanity as a family there&#39;s no question of integration or intermarriage. It&#39;s just one human being marrying another human being or one human being living around and with another human being."



and Womans Rights?

There is definately elements of paternalism in his ideas towards womyn, but in practice he was progressive in this regard given his historical context. The paternalism comes from &#39;traditional&#39; religious portrayls with an emphasis on the role of womyn as care-givers and so forth. Nevertheless, sexism is not a recurring theme in his words/ideas, these are peripheral criticisms that are pieced together from isolated statements.



In his autobiography he advocates beating women, and suggests that it keeps them on their toes and stops them getting bored

Hmmmm, i don&#39;t remember reading that - i&#39;m not saying it&#39;s not in there, but you should get a page reference to support this statement.



I think he was also anti-gay rights, but I can&#39;t remember if he ever says it outright, I&#39;m not sure.

He made no so such statements.



I admire what he did for black rights, but much of what he advocates is a load of shit.

What specifically does he advocate that is a &#39;load of shit&#39;?



You can pretty well figure out Malcom X&#39;s positions by realizing that he was a Black Muslim.

No, you can&#39;t. In order to understand someones positions you need to listen to/read what they have to say - otherwise you would be making an assumption without basis, and given the diversity of opinion amongst &#39;black muslims&#39; - your attitude is particularly baffling.



I see him as a reactionary fascist and a capitalist.

Do you understand the historical-political meaning of the term fascist? There is no connection between fascism and malcolm x - but please feel to demonstrate otherwise. As for being a &#39;capitalist&#39; - Malcolm X lived in and just above poverty his entire life, he was not a member of the ruling class, he was not a &#39;capitalist&#39; - please stop abusing terms like fascist and capitalist.



He advocated Black PROPERTY OWNERSHIP and Black advancement through traditionally capitalist means.

When he was a member of the NOI he advocated community control over resources/community economy - and yes he was talking about black communities, where he and the members/supporters of the NOI lived - amongst the poorest communities in the US. The idea was to stop black people from just filling the baskets of the rich non-black people who lived &#39;down-town&#39; - i.e. the capitalist class, and instead support the businesses and and organisations of the community that had the interests of the local community at heart.

The flaw in this is obvious, it maintains capitalistic social relations, a flaw he overcame later in his life. In his post-NOI life he shifted away from &#39;black community capitalism&#39; - towards a socialist organisation of the means of production.



His cult of personality and many of his methods were sure-fire fascism.

What &#39;fascist&#39; methods did he employ?



Had he ever had a chance to run some form of government, he leaves no doubt that it would have been a distinctly fascist state.

And you&#39;re basing this on what?



Do not forget that his "revelation" about there being white Muslims was a bullshit, post-break ploy to better position himself against his former allies.

How do you know this?



Also, do not forget that he negotiated with the KKK on behalf of the Black Muslims on ways to discredit Martin Luther King.

see Severian&#39;s post, and then see it again, because you really need to dump this prejudiced shit from your brain.

[RABBIT - THE - CUBAN - MILITANT]

i would think that his views on homosexuality were those that are found the the Holy Qu’ran

" Homosexual acts are condemned as unnatural. (Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?)" - The Heights 7:80-81 , the Qu’ran

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The funny part about that is that many "creatures" have "committed the acts before us" and continue to do so.

[Black Dagger]

i would think that his views on homosexuality were those that are found the the Holy Qu’ran

Very possible, but did the Qu&#39;ran also determine his views on revolution and race relations as well?

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 01:20 PM
In his autobiography he advocates beating women, and suggests that it keeps them on their toes and stops them getting bored :angry:
what? i must have missed it, because i don&#39;t remember reading such a thing.

do you know where the offending passage is? i&#39;d like to see this for myself.

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by Red Flag [email protected] 1 2006, 04:53 AM
I see him as a reactionary fascist and a capitalist. He advocated Black PROPERTY OWNERSHIP and Black advancement through traditionally capitalist means.


hmmm. i tend to think of the early malcolm x as some kind of reform capitalist, black nationalist. the latter malcolm x, based on his speeches, seemed purely socialist, completely abandoning the idea for a "black state," especially within the last few months of his life.

"It is impossible for capitalism to survive, primarily because the system of capitalism needs some blood to suck. Capitalism used to be like an eagle, but now it&#39;s more like a vulture. It used to be strong enough to go and suck anybody&#39;s blood whether they were strong or not. But now it has become more cowardly, like the vulture, and it can only suck the blood of the helpless. As the nations of the world free themselves, the capitalism has less victims, less to suck, and it becomes weaker and weaker. It&#39;s only a matter of time in my opinion before it will collapse completely."


Also, do not forget that he negotiated with the KKK on behalf of the Black Muslims on ways to discredit Martin Luther King.

it would be interesting if it were really true. haven&#39;t really read anything on this in particular. do you have a link or a book to show that substantiates that claim?

[&#33;Injustice&#33;]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2006, 01:27 AM
I like Martin Luther King Jr. more
y is that?.....and can u explain him a little more such as his philosophies???

[Hampton]

Do not forget that his "revelation" about there being white Muslims was a bullshit, post-break ploy to better position himself against his former allies. Also, do not forget that he negotiated with the KKK on behalf of the Black Muslims on ways to discredit Martin Luther King.

Where&#39;s the proof on the first accusation? The second is true and false.


"I was in the home of Jeremiah, the [NOI] minister in Atlanta, Georgia. I’m ashamed to say it, but I’m going to tell you the truth. I sat at the table myself with the heads of the Ku Klux Klan, who at that time were trying to negotiate with Elijah Muhammad so that they could make available to him a large area of land in Georgia or I think it was South Carolina. They had some very responsible persons in the government who were involved in it and who were willing to go along with it. They wanted to make this land available to him so that his program of separation would sound more feasible to Negroes and therefore lessen the pressure that the integrationists were putting upon the white man. I sat there I negotiated it. I listened to their offer. And I was the one who went back to Chicago and told Elijah Muhammad what they had offered."
—Malcolm X: The Last Speeches

www.bolshevik.org/1917/West/1917%2520West%2520%25233.html+malcolm+x+negotiate+ kkk&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1]Link (http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:y_ZWj9K2BuEJ:[url).[/url]


A week before his assassination Malcolm X publicly revealed that the leaders of the Black Muslims had been colluding with the Ku Klux Klan and Rockwell, the leader of the US Nazi Party. They had looked to giving Elijah Muhammed financial aid. In return he was to continue churning out the separatist message and at the same time keep the heat off racist organizations. This graphically shows how Black Nationalism could play into the hands of the racists. In the course of struggle Malcolm X was forced to question whether Black Nationalism was the correct philosophy. He did not break with the idea of blacks organizing separately but he recognized using the term Black Nationalist was setting him apart from "true revolutionaries dedicated to overturning the system of exploitation that exists on this earth." he said, "Can we sum up the solution to the problems confronting our people as Black Nationalism? If you notice, I haven&#39;t been using that expression for several months now."

Link. (http://www.socialistalternative.org/literature/malcolmx/ch4.html)


The NOI&#39;s key go-between with the white supremacists was John X Ali, identified by authors Louis Lomax and Karl Evanzz as the FBI&#39;s top informant within the organization. Soon after John X. Ali had been named the NOI&#39;s national secretary in early 1960, Texas millionaire H.L. Hunt began to send funds to the NOI. According to Evanzz, John X. Ali suggested that the Nation establish a dialogue with the Ku Klux Klan and the American Nazi Party, which might lead to the purchase of land in the deep south. According to FBI records, on January 28, 1961, a meeting between Ku Klux Klan representatives and the Nation, including Malcolm X, was held in Atlanta.

Also in 1961 at a NOI rally in Washington, DC, American Nazi George Lincoln Rockwell sat in the front row with a few dozen storm troopers. When it came time for the collection, Rockwell cried out: "George Lincoln Rockwell gives &#036;20." So much applause followed that Malcolm X remarked, "George Lincoln Rockwell, you got the biggest hand you ever got, didn&#39;t you?" In 1962, at the NOI&#39;s annual Savior&#39;s Day in Chicago, Rockwell was a featured speaker. He stated, "I believe Elijah Muhammad is the Adolph Hitler of the black man," and ended his speech by pumping his arm and shouting "Heil Hitler." (Chicago Free Weekly Reader, April, 11, 1986)

Link. (http://www.plp.org/TheCommunist1/noi.html)

Martin Luther King was not mentioned.