Columbia
30th January 2006, 16:04
Tormented by Treachery wrote:
"The spirit of democracy cannot be imposed from without. It has to come from within."
--Mohandas K Gandhi
Aint it the fuckin' truth.
Well, of course it's not. Like most people, I admire Gandhi, but that doesn't mean he was right about everything. And this is one of the things he happened to be wrong about.
The best example I know of was 1945 Japan. Understand that the Japanese for the most part had 2000 years of the equivilent to feudal dictatorship. There was ABSOLUTLY no "spirit of democracy." Even the Meji Reforms of during the 50 years previous to the military control of Japan in the 20's did nothing to create such a spirit.
Democracy was forced down the throats of the Japanese. PERIOD. It was performed by the United States of America. It included a seven year occupation, and when the occupation ended, and since that time, NO SERIOUS VOICE IN JAPAN has advocated the end of the deomocracy forced on Japan.
In Iraq, the U.S. did not force democracy on the people. The same polls that show the Iraqis want the U.S. out of Iraq also show they support democracy. This is indisputible. NO ONE is arguing Iraq doesn't want some form of democracy.
What the U.S. is finding out, of course, is that as democracy sweeps through the Middle East, it doesn't mean that it will be a U.S. type philosophy to its democracy. Remember that the history of the U.S. included a long period of democracy evolving in the U.S.
At first, we had very little democracy (relative to what we have now). Only white Christian land holding males voted, and only for their local (state) house's lower chamber, and the members of the House of Representitves.
As the U.S. history moved along, several classifications were dropped. Land ownership, religion, and skin color, in that order. Also, all states by 1950 had direct election of the U.S. Senate. While women had the right to vote in a few states in the 19th Century, it wasn't until the 20th Century that this occurred. Finally, poll taxes and other Jim Crow tricks were removed in the 1960's.
It has taken the U.S. 220 years of our Constitutional government to get where we are today. It's still going to evolve. We're hardly done. My personal pet peeves include the money spent on campaigns, and a broader pool of citizens who wish to run for office being able to do so without money from rich party members or political action committies, whether on the left, like unions, or the right, like business interests.
The current brand of democracy in the Middle East includes an anti-Israelie and pro-Islamic color. Our first brand of democracy included an anti-Catholic and pro-Protistant color.
Ours evolved to become less secular; theirs will evolve to become less secular.
But to say democracy can't be forced down someone? Just ask the Japanese. Gandhi was wrong about not fighting Hitler and he was wrong about this one also.
Nobody (with perhaps the exception of me, except for spelling) is perfect. Hee hee.
"The spirit of democracy cannot be imposed from without. It has to come from within."
--Mohandas K Gandhi
Aint it the fuckin' truth.
Well, of course it's not. Like most people, I admire Gandhi, but that doesn't mean he was right about everything. And this is one of the things he happened to be wrong about.
The best example I know of was 1945 Japan. Understand that the Japanese for the most part had 2000 years of the equivilent to feudal dictatorship. There was ABSOLUTLY no "spirit of democracy." Even the Meji Reforms of during the 50 years previous to the military control of Japan in the 20's did nothing to create such a spirit.
Democracy was forced down the throats of the Japanese. PERIOD. It was performed by the United States of America. It included a seven year occupation, and when the occupation ended, and since that time, NO SERIOUS VOICE IN JAPAN has advocated the end of the deomocracy forced on Japan.
In Iraq, the U.S. did not force democracy on the people. The same polls that show the Iraqis want the U.S. out of Iraq also show they support democracy. This is indisputible. NO ONE is arguing Iraq doesn't want some form of democracy.
What the U.S. is finding out, of course, is that as democracy sweeps through the Middle East, it doesn't mean that it will be a U.S. type philosophy to its democracy. Remember that the history of the U.S. included a long period of democracy evolving in the U.S.
At first, we had very little democracy (relative to what we have now). Only white Christian land holding males voted, and only for their local (state) house's lower chamber, and the members of the House of Representitves.
As the U.S. history moved along, several classifications were dropped. Land ownership, religion, and skin color, in that order. Also, all states by 1950 had direct election of the U.S. Senate. While women had the right to vote in a few states in the 19th Century, it wasn't until the 20th Century that this occurred. Finally, poll taxes and other Jim Crow tricks were removed in the 1960's.
It has taken the U.S. 220 years of our Constitutional government to get where we are today. It's still going to evolve. We're hardly done. My personal pet peeves include the money spent on campaigns, and a broader pool of citizens who wish to run for office being able to do so without money from rich party members or political action committies, whether on the left, like unions, or the right, like business interests.
The current brand of democracy in the Middle East includes an anti-Israelie and pro-Islamic color. Our first brand of democracy included an anti-Catholic and pro-Protistant color.
Ours evolved to become less secular; theirs will evolve to become less secular.
But to say democracy can't be forced down someone? Just ask the Japanese. Gandhi was wrong about not fighting Hitler and he was wrong about this one also.
Nobody (with perhaps the exception of me, except for spelling) is perfect. Hee hee.