Gun control

[Technocrates]

I know that most people on the "left" they talk about in the media are for gun control. I myself am against it, because I realize as Chairman Mao said, that liberty is only found down the barrel of a gun. I also know that the Founding Fathers created the 2nd Amendment just so we could defend against tyranny with a people's army. That is why I am against gun control, what about you. Are you for it or against it?

[Comrade Ben]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 04:05 AM
that liberty is only found down the barrel of a gun.
The quote is "Politial power grows from the barrel of a gun."

[Janus]

I know that most people on the "left" they talk about in the media are for gun control.
What do you mean by "left"? If you're talking about the Democracts, then you're right.


I also know that the Founding Fathers created the 2nd Amendment just so we could defend against tyranny with a people's army.
Well, that's where the controversy arises from, the interpretation of the 2nd amendment. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." The scribe who wrote it capitalized militia and arms. So the main issues include the exact definition of militia and how can the amendment can be applied to the 21st century.

However, I haven't heard any radical leftists support gun control simply because it will take weapons from the hands of ordinary people, thereby hindering a workers' revolution. It's mainly the right conservatives who vehemently oppose this issue.

[Seong]

As a comrade living in a country that bans guns I can say that it really, really sucks. Like Comrade Qui said, it's hindering the possibility of me going and shooting certain liberal politicians in the head or something like that.

I'd say I'm against gun control.

[Eoin Dubh]

Practice your aim with this nifty target.


http://www.jpfo.org/hitlertarget.pdf

[BuyOurEverything]

I support mandatory licences for guns, similar to cars.

[Goatse]

I've only ever seen three guns, all in the same place, outside Downing Street.

My grandfather used to own a shotgun... but he had to sell it. I don't think he even had it legally.

Fuck New Labour.

[Abood]

personally i think gun control is kinda good. imagine there are no guns in the world.. then we would punch down evry1 against the revolution.. also, if there arnt any guns, then the bourgeoisie cant slaughter the proletarians when they revolt. on the other hand, proletarians need guns to revolt.. so, hmmm.. thts a pretty hard question..
let say: ban guns until we need them?!

[Janus]

personally i think gun control is kinda good. imagine there are no guns in the world.. then we would punch down evry1 against the revolution.. also, if there arnt any guns, then the bourgeoisie cant slaughter the proletarians when they revolt. on the other hand, proletarians need guns to revolt.. so, hmmm.. thts a pretty hard question..
Gun control takes guns out of the hands of ordinary civilians not the poice or army. Therefore, giving these two institutions the capitalists a much greater amount of power.

[Technocrates]

Qui makes my exact point. First some history of gun control.

1. It was first thought up by Adolf Hitler.

2. It was first implimented in America briefly in order to disarm blacks in the South.

3. Almost every tyrannical regime has used gun control to stay in power.

[ComTom]

Every person in the world should own a gun, it would reduce crime greatly. I think that we can get rid of the police and have a army of prolateriat to protect the commonwealth of the state. We don't need gun control. After all, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Killing people is a crime. Most of the time crime is fueled from poverty. Under the dictatorship of the prolateriat the move towards a classless society depletes of crime. Therfore, no gun crimes.

[Janus]

In my state, they have implemented a new law where you can shoot anyone whom you deem a threat to you. There haven't been any incidents concerning it yet but it looks like it could be used to potentially settle some old scores particularly if there aren't any people around to witness it.

[Technocrates]

You live in Florida. That reminds me, I am curious as to gun control laws around the world. Who has the most and who has the least?

[Tormented by Treachery]

All I can say is that we have 6 or 7 at my house, so if there were a revolution, I would have your back :lol: :lol:

[Fidelbrand]

I don't support guns owned by civilians.

The incumbent government (if it is for the people, by the people) should hold urgent deliberative democratic forums/votes,etc if there are huge sagas.

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2006, 08:35 AM
I support mandatory licences for guns, similar to cars.
I think it is hypocrisy here in the US to have to liscensing/registration of guns to the government. They send guns,ammunition and weapons to brutal murders worldwide. The military and intelligence services occupies and goes into other countries and shoots people for no just cause on a daily basis. The police serve and protect only the wealthy for the most part and annoy and harass the rest of us. Why should these corrupt scumbags know what weapons I possess? Why should I pay the scumbags to own a weapon? Liscening is inneffective anyway, criminals are not going to bother.

On another subject, car liscening and registration what a scam. For what they do it should cost no more than 5-10 dollars. Got to love hidden taxes.

[fernando]

The world would be such a nicer place if people only used guns on themselves

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 04:30 AM
The world would be such a nicer place if people only used guns on themselves
Now, That's a good one. :o :lol:

[commiecrusader]

I think everyone should be allowed to have guns probably. The only thing is what if fascists get hold of guns?

[boosh logic]

I live in the UK - there is gun control. There are probably many people who get guns illegally, but even so there are hardly ever any gun crimes. However there are plenty of stabbings and other murders, so I doubt that giving everyone a gun will reduce crime.

[Dark Exodus]

1. It was first thought up by Adolf Hitler.

I agree with what you are saying, but that is a logical fallacy.

Hitler was also against hunting and a vegetarian. That does not instantly make these things bad or wrong.

[The Grey Blur]

I think it's ironic that those who are against gun control appear to be those who live in countries where a lack of gun control has led to incidents like the Columbine massacre - you want that to happen at your local school?

BTW - Who owns all the legal weapons in the States? Umm yeah, that's right the suburban whites, not the proletariat

[loveme4whoiam]

Every person in the world should own a gun, it would reduce crime greatly.
:huh:

As boosh logic says, we have gun control and very little gun crime. If we made owning guns legal, that statistic would sky-rocket. If you allow people to have the means to commit a crime (for instance, taking a shotgun and shooting your neighbour in the chest for letting his damn dog bark all night) it is obvious and logical that more of these crimes will be commited.

Looking at this from a revolutionary point of view, it's obvious that we need guns to oppose the capitalist bastards with their private security forces etc. However, I'd advocate the complete decommission of all guns after the revolution was over and no longer needed. If you want to defend yourself, get a non-lethal self-defense weapon (I do support these, and I'm disappointed that the UK don't allow them as I'd feel a hell of a lot safer walking around the streets of Plymouth on a Friday night with a stun baton in my pocket). And as for:


In my state, they have implemented a new law where you can shoot anyone whom you deem a threat to you.
Are you fucking KIDDING me? This is insane! "Those four girls who walk past me every day and giggle are a threat to me - BOOM!" "That guy who has a new car is a threat to my family's economic well-being - BANG!" "I don't like you, and you don't like me. Therefore, you are a threat to me - BOOM!" What in the name of hellfire kind of law is this! This is the opposite of law! Comrade Qui, I am very scared for you my friend :unsure:

[fernando]

And why should everybody have a gun? In these times driven on paranoia? I would be very scared if Holland would turn like the US in which every moron could own a gun. Oh yes you can have your little revolution a bit easier perhaps which is probably the reason why many leftists yell against gun control. And then? Bla...cruel leaders are only replaced by leaders turning cruel.

But yeah...guns...why should we all have guns? Do you need it in your daily life?

However have you guys seen Bowling For Columbine? Canada has no gun control, more people have more guns than in the US, however gun-related crime is way lower. But the circumstances present in Canada are also different than the US.

[Atlas Swallowed]

You watch too many movies Fernando. It is not like the wild west over here. If your going to get shot here it is probably going to be from the police or a criminal with an illegal weapon. Just love pussies who want their corrupt governments to protect them. Fear for thier own safety is what motivates them above all else.

Michael Moorer is a fake just trying to make an entertaining movie. He cares more about the movie being entertaining and well made than the subject matter. He said so himself, while verbally blowing Quentin Terrentino.

[fernando]

You watch too many movies Fernando. It is not like the wild west over here. If your going to get shot here it is probably going to be from the police or a criminal with an illegal weapon.
That is not the point, in the US there are relatively speaking way more gun related crimes than there are in Canada where guns are also legal.


Just love pussies who want their corrupt governments to protect them. Fear for thier own safety is what motivates them above all else.

Yes and giving those pussies guns isnt going to solve the situation...

[Atlas Swallowed]

Imagine the USA with total gun control. Especially with the patriot act. What would stop the police from breaking and entering into anyones house at a whim(not to mention the CIA FBI ATF etc...). They would not need to call for backup or the SWAT in and if they get caught no big deal. Minorities have it rough enough here. The government of the US acts illegally now if as it is the populance were unarmed thier ruthlessness would be unchecked. Be careful what you wish for it may come true.

The US cities are larger(the drug problem is greater, thankyou CIA) and besides most Canadians are hockey fans and as everybody know hockey fans are good shit(besides we would rather pull your shirt over your head and punch you a couple dozen times than shoot you) :)

[fernando]

Imagine the USA with total gun control. Especially with the patriot act. What would stop the police from breaking and entering into anyones house at a whim(not to mention the CIA FBI ATF etc...).
So...you are saying that the police would simply constantly raid everybody's house when there is gun control?


They would not need to call for backup or the SWAT in and if they get caught no big deal.
Now there is an idea, a big gunfight...


Minorities have it rough enough here.
And their lives will be easier if they all run around with guns?


The US cities are larger(the drug problem is greater, thankyou CIA) and besides most Canadians are hockey fans and as everybody know hockey fans are good shit(besides we would rather pull your shirt over your head and punch you a couple dozen times than shoot you)
Wouldnt it then just be better to prevent people from having guns in the US and work on the social inequality there? Now you suggest its better to arm them because then...well...they at least have the freedom to run around with guns.

[Atlas Swallowed]

No did I say everyones houses, corrupt cops(not all police officers are good guys son) would be more inclined to do so because they would not have the threat of the home owner being armed. The SWAT comment was they would not have to call in backup to raid someones house there fore less witnesses(yes son some cops are basically honest few but some).

Alot of cops are conservative wanna be NAZIs that hate and attack those that are different to them. If the possibility of an intended victim is armed they will not be attacked with impunity. The Black Panthers in thier begining are a perfect example of lessening police violence through arms unfortunatly the FBI destroyed them I never said everybody should be armed the option should be available though. In a government run for and by the rich thier will always be social inequality to think otherwise is border line retarded. Since you are so contemtuos of "our little revolution"(making thousands of posts on a site named Revolutionary Left, hello!)I won't even go thier. No thier probably won't be a revolution anytime soon here because the majority of those on the left here think as you do.

[fernando]

No did I say everyones houses, corrupt cops(not all police officers are good guys son) would be more inclined to do so because they would not have the threat of the home owner being armed.
Criminals and gangs do the same...


The SWAT comment was they would not have to call in backup to raid someones house there fore less witnesses(yes son some cops are basically honest few but some).

Okay but I still think you put too much good faith in every gunowner.


Alot of cops are conservative wanna be NAZIs that hate and attack those that are different to them.
And a lot of non-cop gun wielders from ethnic minorities living in poor areas join gangs which kill each other....


In a government run for and by the rich thier will always be social inequality to think otherwise is border line retarded.
Yes and letting people have guns will help against this?


Since you are so contemtuos of "our little revolution"(making thousands of posts on a site named Revolutionary Left, hello!)I won't even go thier. No thier probably won't be a revolution anytime soon here because the majority of those on the left here think as you do.
How large part of the population wants an actual communist revolution? The succeeded 'communist' revolutions who had mass support (Cuba and Vietnam) started out as not specifically communist revolutions in order to get support, only after the revolution was a success they claimed to be comminists, alienating a large part of the original revolutionaries.

Not all of the left agree with the idea of shoving guns down the faces of those who do not agree with the doctrines made up by a (mostly) small group of middle or upperclass peeps!

[deak]

since when does a revolutionary care if the guns they are using to overthrow the government are legal or not. for revolutionary purposes, gun control is pretty much a mute point. the guns we can buy at the pawn shop aren't going to help us overthrow the government. the guns you can buy on the streets may.

[travisdandy2000]

:ph34r: Why we should be aginst gun control:
U.S.A. 2008: After a massive terroist attack in Washington D.C., Commander and Cheif Bush has declared a state of emergency, backed by the Supreme Court that has declared the move fully constitutional. The elections are to be suspended until the war on terriorism is over. All democratic senators and congressmen have been placed under house arrest for their own protection. There are tanks on every street corner of every major city in the U.S. . The media has been placed under white house control until the crisis is over. Hundreds of thousands have vanished overnight with no information as to their whereabouts. Rumsfield assures a jittery population that these measures are only in place to preserve our freedoms, and will be lifted as soon as every enemy of freedom in the world is done away with.
What now, comrades? I'd feel better with a gun then a handfull of rocks. If there going to try to ship me to some prison camp in Europe, I'd like to take a few of the bastards with me.

[commiecrusader]

My god... what an active imagination you have. You do however make a very valid point. How can we defend ourselves from the oppressive rulers and their minions without weapons?

[Seong]

We won't be able too. We have to either destroy all their firepower or find creative ways to create our own.

[Delirium]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 05:59 AM
the guns we can buy at the pawn shop aren't going to help us overthrow the government. the guns you can buy on the streets may.
The are a plethora of quality firearms that you can buy legally. You can own a .50 legally. If you are able to go to your local gun show (in US) and buy firearms with no papertrail, why go and risk buying weapons on the blackmarket?

Edit: Spelling