Fascism in America

[Commie Dic]

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

Do you agree?

[Comrada J]

Has any one posted the flash version yet?
http://www.ericblumrich.com/14.html

[rebelworker]

Well Bushes regeim does fall neatly into these 14 catagories and the point this guy is trying to make is a valid one but...
Fascism is not just any brutal regeim it is a very specific ideology with specific determining factors.
Pinochet and Suharto's regeims were not facism, they were classic military dictatorships.

As for Fascism it is a political movment, focused on extreem right wing populism, with an almost revolutionary charachter before it seizes power.
It starts wth paramilitary gangs, this is true of Italy(the only actual "Fascist" regeim) and Nazi Germany(the copt cat but more "effective" regeim).
These Street gangs, the Italian Blackshirts and German Brownshirts, work exactly as revolutionary organizations and are cgharacterised by quasi socialist values.
The Head of thed Blackshirts(mussilini) was formerly an anarchist, and the head of the Brownshirts, was a gay socialist. These populist elements are furmented in order to build a mass base for fascist parties BEFORE they seize power, this involves violent confrontation with real socialist groups.
The reason d'etre of these political movments is ORDER, restore order and protect it from Communist and Anarchist instability.

Once the fascist group has gained a significant mass base, they then are handed power by the ruling class who fears them less than the leftist menace(this aspect is similar to a military dictatorship that is annuling the "legitimate" power of a leftist movement, but it differs in that the parties take power"legaly" as oposed to pinochet or suharto who seized power militarily.

In the Case of Germany the Nazi Party had to purge its "undesirable" elements in order to secure the confidence of the ruling class. This was done in the "night of the long knives" where the head of the brownshirts and hundreds of other uncontrollable or cantradictory memebrs of the Party were assasinated.

Once a fascst regeim is n power, they then through legislative means move to entrench their power and permit single party rule. After this is done ALL liberal freedoms are removed in the country.

If the Bush govt was actually fascist there would be no democrats, no green party, their would be gangs of thugs roaming the streets, mandatory "cultural" reeducation organization for the youth and certinly you could not discuss weither the regeim was fascist or not on the internet without gangs of thugs or the secret police comming to your house and killing you.

I think its important to point out the real scary aspects of todays america(really glad i dont live there) but dont over state it. Fascism is so horrible that we should not take meaning away from its name by labeling far less than fascist regeims as such.

Good luck down there, we just got one of our own to deal with North of the Border.

In solidarity,
rebelworker

[Commie Dic]

Well we have gangs in America. We will have them as long as America keeps trying to take away our freedoms. Then we have racial gangs. Though we do not have many revolutionary gangs in America. We need them, and bad. We need to make a move in America. We need to start revolutionizing before another Bush is born and gets in office. We need to end the constant struggle of the party differences. I though know nothing of making a move though. I am just like most people all bark and no bite. Ha, I love and hate it. If we could orgainize and make like the Communist League again. This is not just for Americans... just like the Communist League in the past. From all over the world people could organize, plan, and make a move to make the world the Utopia we all seek today.

[Redeye]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 03:57 PM

I think its important to point out the real scary aspects of todays america(really glad i dont live there)



Good luck down there, we just got one of our own to deal with North of the Border.


I agree, pointing out the scary aspects of today's western governments is an inportant step to educating the general mass of the public against these kinds of rulers and let them see through the smoke and mirrors side of things like anti-terror laws to the real issues of just what freedoms are being taken away.
I say western governments instead of the US as we have been living with G.W's no1 lickspittle puppet for a while now( he has lied himself into a 4th term) and all the things happening in the US, Howard is trying his best to bring something of the same into OZ.

[jaycee]

i would slightly disagree with your view of the role of facism. in Germany for example the nazis were not used to defeat the workers in a 'head on way'. The social democrats and stalinists had already defeated the workers by the mid to late 20's 9the spd used the early for fathers of the nazis, the 'Friekorps' to physically defeat the workers in 1918), the nazis were there to finish them off and as the best party for the capitalists to wip up nationalism for imperialist wars and the building of a war economy.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Please. "The United States"/"The U.S."

Not America.

[RedKryptonite]

Originally posted by Commie [email protected] 27 2006, 04:18 PM
We need to start revolutionizing before another Bush is born and gets in office.
Aint that the truth!

[Rockfan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 02:52 AM
Please. "The United States"/"The U.S."

Not America.
Why, people don't hear America and think south america or canada or greenland, they think the states.

[encephalon]

I do not have one there. I did create one somewhere...but I can't even remember where now and I never wrote anything in it.[

Because there are many more americans outside of the united states than there are inside it. The United States has claimed the title "American" in order to propagate the illusion that its the only thing on the continent that matters.

[Rockfan]

Ok yeah well good point seen as I just illistrated it so well :lol: , my bad.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Why, people don't hear America and think south america or canada or greenland, they think the states.

Far as I can remember, Che used "America" to describe the America's, or South America (can't remember which).
And yes, when I hear "America", I am confused wether you mean the America's, South America, Central America, North America, or the United States.

If Sweden was called "the united states of Europe", would you describe "Europe" as the nation Sweden? Would you not be pissed if someone said "What do you think of Europe", when the person asking actually meant Sweden?

[Zero]

I'm pretty sure he was refering to Central America.

[romanm]

"The United States" is also misleading because amerikkka currently occupies the Black Nation, First Nations, Puerto Rico, and Northern Mexico.

I think this is a good reason to adopt alternative spellings like "amerika" or "gringoland" for the white settler state in North America. Or, you can refer to it as the "United $nakes" and so on..

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Why, people don't hear America and think south america or canada or greenland, they think the states.

What people? When I hear America, I think of.... America (North, South & Central).

Those in the US tend to refer to their country as America though, and think of their country anytime they hear 'America'.

[LSD]

I vehemently disagree with that "14 point" definition of fascism.

It is clearly an attempt to stir up controversy by crafting a defintion based on modern-day America.

From what I can tell, "Dr. Lawrence Britt", the author of these "14 points", is neither a Doctor, nor a political scientist but rather a retired oil executive! Furthermore, it appears that he ripped off his "points" from this site (http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html) of all places, but changed some of the entries to make them more mainstream...

The point is that this definition is hardly authoritative and certainly not "neutral", its a political attempt to newspeak the word "fascism" in order to attack American policy.

Now, I am no fan of the American government and will freely admit that it is one of the scariest in memory, but it is not fascist.

Honestly, the definition you provided is awful.

It's ludicrous that this Mr. Britt didn't include that fundamental feature of fascism: social repression. Instead he lists entries such as "Religion and Government are Intertwined", which was not true in Germany; "Rampant Sexism" which was no more marked in Italy than the rest of Western Europe; and "Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts" which was as common among radical communist groups as it was fascist ones.

As a student of history and espcially of the 20s and 30s, I can tell you that Mr Britt does not know of what he speaks.

In short, this is a BAD defintion, and I strongly reject it.

[ReD_ReBeL]

Now, I am no fan of the American government and will freely admit that it is one of the scariest in memory, but it is not fascist.

Totally i agree with you man. I'm sick of hearing everyone call certain states Fascist.
The actualy definition of Fascism is -A political movement or system which there is ,typically, State control of all aspects of society, A supreme dictator, Supression of democratic bodies such as trade unions, and emphasis on Nationalism and Militarism.

Now the United States promotes the private sector, corporations , share holders etc therefore the US doesnt have state control of all aspects of society. A supreme dictator ie.Hitler, doesn't match the United States system where there is a president voted for ever 3/4 years(whatever it is in the US).

[Tormented by Treachery]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fascism

"A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."

So you'd argue that one of these is not evident in American society? Not to be confrontational, just wondering.

[LSD]

So you'd argue that one of these is not evident in American society?

No, I'd argue that all of them are not present.

The word "and" is an inclusive operator. In this case it means that all conditions must be met for a society to be considered fascist. Right off the bat, the US fails to meet the first, second, and third criteria.

Yes, Bush is powerful, but he is by no means a "dictator". Nor does he exert much "economic control". Indeed, his policies are rather economically liberal.

Insofar as "suppression of the opposition", while there is no doubt that the present administration is no fan of dissent, there is stil a sizable and quite public domestic anti-Bush movement.

Remember, Hitler didn't "condemn" Otto Wells, he had him shot. If the US were truly fascist, Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan, and Ted Kennedy would all be dead.

The United States may be oppressive, but it is not fascist!

[ReD_ReBeL]

(Tormented by Treachery)

"A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."

Not being funny, but that sounds slightly like Cuba doesn't it not?

[Rockfan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 11:55 AM

Why, people don't hear America and think south america or canada or greenland, they think the states.

What people? When I hear America, I think of.... America (North, South & Central).

Those in the US tend to refer to their country as America though, and think of their country anytime they hear 'America'.
Most people I know think the states when someone says america.

[Tormented by Treachery]

Referring to the United States as America, if you're an American (such as myself) comes accross as arrogant. As if we are the only country on either of the two continents that matters.

[travisdandy2000]

<_< All right just an opinion so don&#39;t jump on me, but If you don&#39;t call people from the U.&#036;.A. Americans what can you call them? Canada has a nice plural, Canadians, Mexico, Mexicans, and so on. What would you call the plural form of people frome the U.S.? United Statians? North Ameiricans might work as I understand they use that term in South America, but then how do you tell Canada and the empire apart? Yankees, is the only thing I can think of, and I have some freinds in the South who would object to that as well. So what&#39;s your solution?
As far as Fascism, in the Marxist sense of the word. Fascism is a desperate response of the ruling class to the spectre of socialist revolution. Italy and Germany both had powerful Communist and Anarchist movements that were gainging momentum. Fascism used disillusioned WWI vets to fight for nationalism in direct response to the threat these revolutionary groups posed. Fascism also has some degree of a lumpen element to it, as both Hitler and Mussolini were of the lumpen class before rising to power. Anything happening in the U.S. today can only be calle athouritarianism, and not true fascism. I only wish the movement was stong enough to provoke a fascist response. There&#39;s no place for a street fighting man.