Graffitying

[razboz]

I am not an expert in this subject. I have only been doing for a little while. One of the greatest advantages of tagging, graffiting or writting is that it is one of those things that most people dont know wether to condemn or not, so people will think twice before denouncing you. Nonthe less it requires some organisation and ethics so that you dont end up in jail or give a negative image to the community as whole. The first thing to do is meet up with other artists. this has several advantages. If you cannot draw or have no artistic skills they will be able to teach about some techniques. Also tthey will know how to operatespray cans and things. The most important advantage though is that you'll be able to go on "bombing" raids (this is waht some poeple call garffitng) on your own. Going on your own may seem like a good idea (no need to coordinate, less crowds and so on) but eventually you will be caught, due to the facts you cant be looking out for yourself AND create appreciable peices of work. Not only this but you a lone person is more dubious than a group. A good number for a graffing "cell" is 3. This enables one person to work comfortably, one person to look out and anoother to assisst the first. Taking turns is a good idea so that no one person is bored or tired of what they are doing. Good places to meet fellow artists will vary from city to city but looking for your nearest graff shop is good. There you'll be able to meet fellow graphers without having to ask awquard questions.
Your gear is essential to any successfull operation. The first thing youll need is "writting" equipment: spray pain is ideal, because of its versitality and rapidity of use. A problem with spray paints is their size and the noise they make. Special bags can be bought or made, and pocket cans purchased though. Regular paints would work as well but spray paint is really a must. Stencils are good isf your going to be doing many of the same throughout your area and work fast and well once you know how (www.stencilrevolution.com for more info on that). A respirator is very useful so you dont hurt your lungs but cost a lot and are difficult to make. You should also plan to take gloves and a hat. Your clothes should not be too showy abd cover at least your fore arms and legs. once you and your partners are geared up you should try to fin da time you can all go. A good moment is around 3 or 4 in the morning if your going to go to a major urban or rsidential center as this is the time people are least alert. if not you can plan to go some time after midnight at least, once again not to get caught. at least for the first few times, try to go with somone more experiaenced than you. Get around fast is essential if you plan to hit large areas fast. Good means include bicycles ,roller skates and skate boards if you dont have a car or cant use one. OF course a car would be best because you can relax and spray calmly, waiting for each layer to dry inside your vehicle, but this may not be convenient in some situations. The essential thing is not to get caught of course. Try to keep up the artistic or intelectual value of your work or it will ge quickly buffed over. Try to get recognition by keeping the same style for most of your work.

[VictoryOverWar]

oh hell yah " bombing" is a great way to get your ideas and thoughts accross and is a very beutiful art form. Nice post....do you graf??

[Abood]

one more thing, remember to tag some leftist pics and words :D

[razboz]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2006, 12:39 AM
Nice post....do you graf??
Yes i do graff, but not as much as i would like to. Something i forgot to mention were some ethics that can be usefull to remeber:
-Never hit any place you know cannot afford it (especially poorer areas)
-Never Vandalise: tagging should not solely destructive
-try not to paint over other artists work (unless its fascist or bad)
- Don't boast
- Don't steal other artists work

[flames of the flag]

Graffiti is an excellent form of peaceful protest becuase it challenges one of the very foundations of our society: the ownership of space. In a just society people should have the right to express themselves upon whatever surface they want. If you know the area well going alone is advisable.
Never tag with anyone who wouldnt fight for you.
http://www.graffiti.org

[RNK]

My cousin is a semi-famous graf artist, in Montreal. Yeehaw! Personally I don't care about it, other than as a way to get across simple messages and doing away with pieces of paper stapled to wooden power line posts that can be torn away.

[Pishoo]

Check out this stencil I did of Lenin (Attached file)
Its a bit old thats why its faded.

[razboz]

Yeah thats a hot stencil. We rarely see actual leftist tags and graffiti (apart from a very few very bad hammer and sickles). around were i live.

Perhaps artists should take a stance rather than just making art for its own sake.

[Coolpie]

Im gonna go on a " Bombing raid" tomoz do put some left wing symbols about the place. I have only graffitied a few times before but i think i will do well. Knowing my like they,ll be police randomly hovering around though lol :ph34r: :lol:

[Ultra-Violence]

Nice thread really enjoying it so far cause me and my bro are just begining to get into the graffiti art seen and all seems really helpfull info but were are some good graffiti artist and places to network Etc..... and the only things i have done so far are throw ups and not so good but practice makes perfect :hammer:

[Red Sky Revolution]

Im just getting in to it....its nice where I live...theres not really that many cops.

[razboz]

Ultra Violence good places to network depend entirely on where you live. A good place to start would be a street-shop that sells graffitti materials (usually they also sell skate boards) or your try to find an "alternative" art community, oyou sometimes find them in some cities.
To practice what you can do is draw, draw and draw. Draw all the time. Get yourself a notbook or booklet in which to practice. Familiarise yourself with the design completely before puutting it up. once it comes to you absolutely naturally it sould be easy to paint onto a wall fo your choice.

[Ultra-Violence]

Ultra Violence good places to network depend entirely on where you live. A good place to start would be a street-shop that sells graffitti materials (usually they also sell skate boards) or your try to find an "alternative" art community, oyou sometimes find them in some cities

Thanks for the info Yo! Aprecaite the info! :hammer:

[redflag32]

is it best to do stenciliing/graf art on a dru wall or does it not matter much if its been raining?

[bolshevik butcher]

Closed buissneses and bill boards I'd imagine make good targets. Still to go out and do some, think i will soon.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 10:42 AM
Yeah thats a hot stencil. We rarely see actual leftist tags and graffiti (apart from a very few very bad hammer and sickles). around were i live.

Perhaps artists should take a stance rather than just making art for its own sake.
Making art on the streets is taking a stance.

[bolshevik butcher]

Yes, but it's not spreading a message in itself.

[razboz]

is it best to do stenciliing/graf art on a dru wall or does it not matter much if its been raining?

Its best to do it ona dry wall cos the paint may run. Also if your spraying trs to avod windy nights cos the paint will get everywhere. Also i cannot stress the imprtance of a respirator.

If your going to hit a high profile target plan ahead and get a good team. If its really high profile (gvnmt building ect...) try wheatpasting. A good recipe can be found here (http://riotersblock.blogspot.com) (scroll down).

[Abakua]

I hate graffitti.. I don't want to see that shit everywhere, why do you insist on inflicting your pathetic scrawlings on people? Like dogs pissing up walls...

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Because it challenges the idea of private property, and is a bold way to get your message out.

I tagged a few times but with paint pens rather than spray paint since I'm too young to buy any near where I live. I managed to get a can once but then lost it... I'm thinking about stenciling leftist messages now.

[Abakua]

How does it challange the idea of private property? What message? Tagging is primitive, anti social and reactionary..

[Black Dagger]

How does it challange the idea of private property?

Well that really depends on what exactly is the subject of the graf and what message is put up but, it challenges the idea of private property most plainly by ignoring it. Graf pisses on the sanctity of private property, appropiating it for creative and political ends, often at the expense of government structures, space, corportate ads and billboards.



What message?

Well messages can be very specific, i.e. if you're manipulating/defacing a billboard or ad, or more generally anti-capitalist/racist etc. whatever.


Tagging is primitive, anti social and reactionary.

:lol: lighten up, you sound like a bourgeois polly or a school principal! :o

Don't confuse graf with tagging, tagging generally refers to putting up an individual's tag or signature, and usually people spam the fuck out of whole areas. Graf & stenciling are a lot more creative and political forms of expression that take a lot of skill and effort. Good graf/stencils can be jaw-dropping, there's absolutely nothing 'anti-social' or 'reactionary' about making street-art, busting ads and billboards or spreading progressive messages all the while pissing on the sanctity of private property.

[razboz]

Tagging, graffing and stencilling on private and public property are good ways of challenging the society w elive in. By taking a wall and in a way stealing it from its original purpous the artis is in a way giving it back to the poeple it belongs to by giving it a purpous. Graffs are extremely helpfull in a rapidly changing technocrized society becaus they donot accept grey for an answer. They do not accept straight lines as being the boundaries for our lives. Even your little "dog-piss" tag helps to this purpous by suggesting that there might be something else behind the concrete, that somone somewhere is not a blind faceless drone and they beleive, like you, that walls ashould not be there to keep us apart. they are like the flower or bblade of grass bursting through the concrete. The streets belong to the poeple that walk them. It is to these people that the streets should go. And if your just too damn uptight to accept that, to accept that rules are there to be broken well next time you see a tag, or a graph or a stencil close your eyes.

[Abakua]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 01:03 PM
The streets belong to the poeple that walk them.
Correct, so.. Who appointed you as a decorater? Essentialy who are forcing your "art" upon people univited.. Doodling your personal opinions or designs all over a wall doesn't liberate it. Eventually some poorly paid and exploited worker will have to come and scrub it off because of your self indulgence.

Put these childish things away!

[Black Dagger]

Correct, so.. Who appointed you as a decorater?

Who appointed you as a 'moral' arbitrator? People don't need the permission of anyone to express their creativity or dissent.



Essentialy who are forcing your "art" upon people univited..

Er... so you'd rather look people just left all those billboards and ads alone so people can enjoy their consumerist landscape? Okay. You'd rather we respected private property rights?



Doodling your personal opinions or designs all over a wall doesn't liberate it.

Of course not, but no ever suggested that it did so your point is irrelevant. There are many ways to express dissent, to challenge capitalist/social hegemony, reclaim public space, or just express one's self creatively at the expense of some cappie's property, some are revolutionary, others are not - that doesn't make them meaningless or not worth doing. Not everything we do in life must 'spark' 'revolutionary conditions'.



Eventually some poorly paid and exploited worker will have to come and scrub it off because of your self indulgence.

Yeah defacing private property and appropiating corporate spaces to spread revolutionary/anti-capitalist/subversive messages is soooo 'self-indulgent' - well at least you didn't say 'decadent' or call anyone 'bourgeois'... yet.

And yes, a worker (and no, not necessarily 'poorly paid') may eventually, come to remove the graf, stencil, ad-bust. It's not really hard work, but why does any of this matter?

You're blaming activists for the exploitation of workers by capitalists. It's not an a graf or stencil artists fault that we live in a capitalist society based on labour exploitation, with a system of private property ownership in which those who own property employ others to keep 'their' property clean. These things are at the heart of societies problems, capitalism, private property, not street art - get a grip on reality!


Put these childish things away!

Lighten up.

-_-

[Abakua]

Originally posted by Black [email protected] 25 2006, 02:11 PM
And yes, a worker (and no, not necessarily 'poorly paid') may eventually, come to remove the graf, stencil, ad-bust. It's not really hard work, but why does any of this matter?


Yeah because they pay them handsomely to scrub walls these days, very lucrative work!

I'm no moral arbitrator, it's general public opinion that graffiti is ugly and unwanted, despite dressing it up as protest - that fact is that most graffiti exponents are merely foisting upon us their personal creative urges.. 9 out of ten pieces of graffiti are unreadable psydonuems or crass caricatures..

And we find them mainly in deprived inner city areas.. Graffiti "artists" are not reclaiming anything, they are more interested in personal noteriety, their messages do not speak for the people. Damaging billboards or private advertisments is a different matter.

I'm a musician but I don't force people to listen, why do you force people to see your graffiti?

[razboz]

Whatever the intention of graffitti artists the fac tis that they help degrade property. Property is the source of many of our problems today. Thus by degrading it by breaking its "sanctity"we take down another little brick from the great castle, the cold fortress of Capitalism.

And the reason most if it is unfortunately confined to the poorer areas only shows the way those capitalist running dogs veiw justice. Justice for the rich. Nothing for the poor.

[Black Dagger]

Abakua, do you plan on addressing the bulk of my last two posts in this thread?


Yeah because they pay them handsomely to scrub walls these days, very lucrative work!

It's a job, i don't get paid 'handsomely' either, again as i said, it's not the 'fault' of street artists that capitalism exists, your argument is illogical.



I'm no moral arbitrator, it's general public opinion that graffiti is ugly and unwanted,

And it's general public opinion that communism = dictatorship and that same-sex marriage 'threatens' 'morality' - so what? But yeah, what you're talking about is not what people in this thread are talking about (tagging), so try again.



despite dressing it up as protest - that fact is that most graffiti exponents are merely foisting upon us their personal creative urges..

For sure most graf IS tagging, but that's not I or others in this thread have been supporting, you've just out-right rejected all graf - including political stuff, that's very narrow-minded.



Graffiti "artists" are not reclaiming anything, they are more interested in personal noteriety, their messages do not speak for the people. Damaging billboards or private advertisments is a different matter.

See above.



I'm a musician but I don't force people to listen, why do you force people to see your graffiti?

You don't have to stare at every inch of every wall, unlike music which is much harder to avoid. But yeah, it's kinda hypocritical for a supposed communist to be complaining that i'm forcing people to see graf instead of corporate advertising.

[Abakua]

Graffitti never changed a fucking thing so stop kidding yourselves.. Do it on your own walls if you must.. The enviromental consequenses are horrendous and it's basically an eyesore and a waste of everybody's time..

[Black Dagger]

Graffitti never changed a fucking thing so stop kidding yourselves.. Do it on your own walls if you must.. The enviromental consequenses are horrendous and it's basically an eyesore and a waste of everybody's time..

Okay, so you're not going to actually my respond to my points them? I mean, i've given you opportunity after opportunity and you pass every time.

I must say the 'i'm gonna put my fingers in my ears and keep repeating myself over and over' school of debating is not very convincing, if you no desire to actually engage in a discussion why even post in the first place?

[Abakua]

What points?

You say your activists I say your bored kids with too much time on your hands, defacating on public space, polluting public air, scaring old grannies etc.. Put down the can and pick up a weapon if you want to actually change anything..

[violencia.Proletariat]

The enviromental consequenses are horrendous

Evidence. I figuered this would be a big arguement from "concerned citizens" in anti-graffity campagins, but I've never heard of it.


and it's basically an eyesore

Subjective and meaningless. Individual neighborhoods can decide and designate graff zones if it really bothers them that much.


and a waste of everybody's time

Subjective and obviously not to those who do it. However, I think arguing about something as insignificant as graffiti is a waste of time.

[Black Dagger]

What points?

Um, you know how you posted and then i responded with several paragraphs and then you responded with one or two sentences without directly addressing said paragraphs? The stuff in those paragraphs, that is how a debate works, debating is not repeatedly posting one line responses that essentially repeat the same (refuted) point over and over, i.e. your latest post.


"You say your activists I say your bored kids with too much time on your hands, defacating on public space, polluting public air, scaring old grannies etc.. Put down the can and pick up a weapon if you want to actually change anything.."

Kids? Most street artists are in their 20's or 30's - as i am, how old are you? As far as having too much time on my hands, i'm working and am studying at the moment, i don't have a lot of free time and actually havent had time to do any graf stuff or stencils lately, but i'm still turning up to demos, organising events, going to discussions, collective meetings, and doing unpaid shifts at a collective bookstore - what do you do? Shoot cans with your A-K?

Whilst i'm quoting your latest spam, lol @ at "Put down the can and pick up a weapon if you want to actually change anything", hasta la victoria siempre~! You realise that 'picking up a gun' doesn't actually change anything in and of itself right? Playing with a gun or weapons doesn't liberate anyone - unless you're playing a coup (?) - and is a lot more 'self-indulgent' than political graf or stencils. In the present political climate the only thing that picking up a weapon is going to do is alienate people and give the media and state grounds to further marginalise the revolutionary left.


But anyway, for the sake of forcing you to justify your conservative, pro-property crap,

Your 'arguments' and my responses thus far (the fact that i have cut and paste all of this to get you to actually respond is absurd):


How does it challange the idea of private property? What message? Tagging is primitive, anti social and reactionary.. what message?

"Well that really depends on what exactly is the subject of the graf and what message is put up but, it challenges the idea of private property most plainly by ignoring it. Graf pisses on the sanctity of private property, appropiating it for creative and political ends, often at the expense of government structures, space, corportate ads and billboards."

"Well messages can be very specific, i.e. if you're manipulating/defacing a billboard or ad, or more generally anti-capitalist/racist etc. whatever."

You seem incapable od separating the popular practice of tagging from political/artistic graf and stenciling, this is a distinction that everyone in this thread, but you, has made quite easily. Just to repeat for something like the third time, people in this thread are not talking about 'tags', i.e. when people scrawl their signatures on property.


Tagging is primitive, anti social and reactionary.

"Don't confuse graf with tagging, tagging generally refers to putting up an individual's tag or signature, and usually people spam the fuck out of whole areas. Graf & stenciling are a lot more creative and political forms of expression that take a lot of skill and effort. Good graf/stencils can be jaw-dropping, there's absolutely nothing 'anti-social' or 'reactionary' about making street-art, busting ads and billboards or spreading progressive messages all the while pissing on the sanctity of private property."


Who appointed you as a decorater? Essentialy who are forcing your "art" upon people univited..

Who appointed you as a 'moral' arbitrator? People don't need the permission of anyone to express their creativity or dissent. You'd rather look people just left all those billboards and ads alone so people can enjoy their consumerist landscape? Okay. You'd rather we respected private property rights?



Doodling your personal opinions or designs all over a wall doesn't liberate it. Eventually some poorly paid and exploited worker will have to come and scrub it off because of your self indulgence.

Of course not, but no one ever suggested that it did so your point is irrelevant. There are many ways to express dissent, to challenge capitalist/social hegemony, reclaim public space, or just express one's self creatively at the expense of some cappie's property, some are revolutionary, others are not - that doesn't make them meaningless or not worth doing. Not everything we do in life must 'spark' 'revolutionary conditions'.


Eventually some poorly paid and exploited worker will have to come and scrub it off because of your self indulgence.

Defacing private property, i.e. street art (check some of the stuff here, http://blackpurpleredpink.deviantart.com/gallery/ for examples) and appropiating corporate spaces to spread revolutionary/anti-capitalist/subversive messages is not 'self-indulgent', spamming your tag all over a city is - but again, i'm not talking about tagging.

And yes, a worker (and no, not necessarily 'poorly paid') may eventually, come to remove the graf, stencil, ad-bust. It's not really hard work, but why does any of this matter? You're blaming activists for the exploitation of workers by capitalists. It's not an a graf or stencil artists fault that we live in a capitalist society based on labour exploitation, with a system of private property ownership in which those who own property employ others to keep 'their' property clean. These things are at the heart of societies problems, capitalism, private property, not street art - get a grip on reality!



Yeah because they pay them handsomely to scrub walls these days, very lucrative work!

It's a job, i don't get paid 'handsomely' either, again as i said, it's not the 'fault' of street artists that capitalism exists, your argument is illogical.



I'm no moral arbitrator, it's general public opinion that graffiti is ugly and unwanted

And it's generl public opinion that communism = dictatorship and that same-sex marriage 'threatens' 'morality' - so what? But yeah, what you're talking about is not what people in this thread are talking about (tagging), so try again. Moreover, from my experience most people are generally impressed when they see quality graf on the walls, many stop and check it out.



despite dressing it up as protest - that fact is that most graffiti exponents are merely foisting upon us their personal creative urges.. Graffiti "artists" are not reclaiming anything, they are more interested in personal noteriety, their messages do not speak for the people. Damaging billboards or private advertisments is a different matter.

For sure most graf IS tagging,but that's not what I or others in this thread have been supporting, you've just out-right rejected all graf - including political stuff, that's very narrow-minded.



I'm a musician but I don't force people to listen, why do you force people to see your graffiti?

You don't have to stare at every inch of every wall, unlike music which is much harder to avoid. But yeah, it's kinda hypocritical for a supposed communist to be complaining that i'm forcing people to see graf instead of corporate advertising, least of all when you are talking about 'forcing' people to see political art, and when a lot of graf and stencils (particularly graf) is in out-of-the-way places, like alleys etc.

[Red Heretic]

My favorite graffiti:

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/1307/dr6hd.jpg

[Black Dagger]

Cool, where's that from? Any more pictures?

[YSR]

Correct, so.. Who appointed you as a decorater? Essentialy who are forcing your "art" upon people univited.. Doodling your personal opinions or designs all over a wall doesn't liberate it. Eventually some poorly paid and exploited worker will have to come and scrub it off because of your self indulgence.

Put these childish things away!

Sorry, Mom.

[Abakua]

Urrghh look I don't have time to neatly arrange all your points into little paragraphs and dissect them one by one.. O.K I do understand that "Tagging" & "Graffiti" are in your mind different


"Don't confuse graf with tagging, tagging generally refers to putting up an individual's tag or signature, and usually people spam the fuck out of whole areas. Graf & stenciling are a lot more creative and political forms of expression that take a lot of skill and effort. Good graf/stencils can be jaw-dropping, there's absolutely nothing 'anti-social' or 'reactionary' about making street-art, busting ads and billboards or spreading progressive messages all the while pissing on the sanctity of private property."

But hold on a minute>> Whom exactly decides which is which, isn't this the kind of subjectivity you speak of? You seem to estimate your Graffiti as somehow higher than others tagging.. To me it's all the same crap. It's not social protest it's anti social provocation... What about Nazi graffiti? is that valid? What if it took a long time to paint a swastika with fancy shading and pretty colours.. Is it about how long it takes?

Carry on with your doodles my friend but please don't try and tell me it's about liberating anyone... And for the muppet who questions the enviromental consequences do your own research and start with CFC'S you total dipper...

[razboz]

And for the muppet who questions the enviromental consequences do your own research and start with CFC'S you total dipper...

Most spray paints do not contain CFC's anymore, in any case none of those brands i buy (Montana, Belton etc..).


What about Nazi graffiti? is that valid? What if it took a long time to paint a swastika with fancy shading and pretty colours.. Is it about how long it takes?

This statemen validates Nazi action so long as it follows simalr methodology as Leftis action, or invalidates Leftist action if it is similar to Nazi action. I have heard this argument used before. "If we use the same methos as them, what sets us aprt form them? What makes us any better? What sets apart a Nazi Skinhead from a RedSkin if they bpoth beat people up on the basis of their ideology?" i beleive that waht makes a beautifully shaded Anarchist A not only better than but more usefull and to a certain extent liberating, than say a beautifully shaded Swastika is that one is reaching for a better world while another is not. Relativism is a dangerous thing, because it means that we begin to give an equal chance to ideas who do not desrve it. At one point we have to decide: is such an idea correct? Can we afford to allow it to continue existing? Can we give it equal weight in the face of our own set of ideas? BEcause that is what you are suggesting Abakua. That because we are forced use some of the same methods as delinquants and Nazis this makes us no better. This is wrong. What makes us better than them is that morally we are not deliquants. Morally we are not Nazis. We are people who are looking for a better world. If it means we have to use violence (against prperty for example) so be it. Our actions are sanctioned and justified by our goals. I beleive it was Trotsky who once said " The end may justify the means, so long as something justifies the end". I beleive my ends to be justifiable.

Abakua i agree with you a certain extent: the lines between tagging and graffitti are blurred. However i think i can offer a rapid rule of thumb to distinguish the two. If it is illegible, incomprehensible, monochrome, and/or otherwise pointless it might be considered to be a tag. Otherwise it is safe to assume it is GFraffitti or stencil. If we look at the root of the very words "tag" and "graffitti" we can perhaps gain some understandin gtinto what people may mean when they refer to either. Tag means to label, to associate a word, or meaning to an object. Graffitti comes from the italian, and means to write, to inscribe. Thus we see that graffiti resembles more street literature, while tags would be more equvalent to random doodles. Tags are designed to applied rapidly and mechanmically to surfaces, whill graffs are meant ot provoke the viewer and entertain a more two sided relationship with passer-bys. It has nothoing to do with artisticness as Samo proved to us already 30 years ago in the strets of new-york. Also ^known as Basquiat this graffitti artis (nbot tagger) would wroite and draw enigmatic messages on walls. By anyones standards they not very artistic, but the viewer had a real sense of being someplace else than the grimmy streets of the Big Apple.

[Abakua]

I hear you.. From Basquiat to Banksy, I appreciate good art but these people transcend graffitti... They are artists, they get away with it, they get noticed.. The thousands of copycats are not artists or at least not considered so popularly- and popularity is ultimately the judge of any art.

Graffiti/tagging is an attack on the senses, so is advertising I agree and hate advertising of course... but the message isn't really important or cannot be digested when it is forced upon you.. I don't know, you make good points, I'ts complex.

[cbm989]

Anyone else hear about that law that makes it illegal to buy spray paint under 21 in NewYork, on top of heavier fines for being caught spray painting? Sounds like garbage to me. How can you deny someone the right to PAINT?

[apathy maybe]

If you have really shit laws regarding spray cans and a high chance of getting caught, then use ordinary paint.

It might not be as fast as spray, but for stencils it should work just as well.

For some strange reason the punishment is less (at least where I am) for using a paint brush rather then a spray can.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Abakua
Urrghh look I don't have time to neatly arrange all your points into little paragraphs and dissect them one by one.. O.K I do understand that "Tagging" & "Graffiti" are in your mind different

Okay, i'll take that as a 'white flag', you clearly don't have the debating ability/intelligence to support your arguments, even after I did the work for you, arranging all your points and my counter-points.

In future, don't post if you're not willing or able to back up the crap that comes out of your mouth, it makes you look foolish.

[Abakua]

:lol: Take it how you want, I'm a bit too long in the tooth to give a shit what some snotty kid thinks of me...Dickhead :lol:

[Black Dagger]

:lol: how mature :lol:

:rolleyes:

[razboz]

laugh.gif how mature laugh.gif

Indeed.


Anyone else hear about that law that makes it illegal to buy spray paint under 21 in NewYork, on top of heavier fines for being caught spray painting? Sounds like garbage to me. How can you deny someone the right to PAINT?

The System wants to deny us the right to express ourselves in ways that go beyond the framework of "art" that they have set us. By stopping us from going beyond their limits they wish to turn us all into grey mindless, imagination-less grey drones that go to art galleries filled with white canvases and say "mmh, interesting" and then go to wrk to produce sucha nd sucha good or service with athe warm fuzzy feeling of hving been cultured, and manipualted into yet another ant...

To circumnavigate these laws just dont get caught to start off with, and for high profile ocations like steets or trains or goverbnment buildings usse pasties: theiyre much faster, much more compact and if you get busted with them theyre just abunch of harmless posters and spaghetti sauce...

Marker pens are always a winner for smaller epices: nab yourself a bunch of refillable ones and then add acrylic paint of your choice inside so that you get whtever range of coulours you want. ill try to find arecipie for making some good permanent ink. i've seen those sho shine little bottle/shinner contraptions at use with home made inks.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by apathy [email protected] 8 2006, 11:24 PM
If you have really shit laws regarding spray cans and a high chance of getting caught, then use ordinary paint.

It might not be as fast as spray, but for stencils it should work just as well.

For some strange reason the punishment is less (at least where I am) for using a paint brush rather then a spray can.
Is that in the U$?

[apathy maybe]

Nope, I'm in Tasmania Australia. I think it is the same in other parts of Australia as well.

It is illegal to write on walls, fences etc., and then there is another law regarding spray cans that adds more penalties.

[KEI]

damn!!u guys realy used ur brain 2 discuss instead of ur butt.this is my 1st tym here n i'm doing this topic as asignmen and u guys had hepld me alot!!tq2
p/s:ignore this shit if it sounds fuckin stupid.nway,that abakua guy is a communist eh?

[YSR]

Most of us are. Hence the name of the website.

[An archist]

Originally posted by Young Stupid [email protected] 12 2006, 09:22 PM
Most of us are. Hence the name of the website.
Pssst, what about the little encircled a and the antifa sign?

[elmo sez]

What about graffitti with a proper message like usful information , i mean theres really no point in putting up all these fancy poetic slogans about revolution or freedom or what ever cause at the end of the day most people think thats nothin but hippie / commie /anarcist bullshit ....

so what about usful information like FACTS about corporations the government or any number of things ... information people can use ..

educating people to the faults of the current system is the key , let them come to their own conclusions , and usually form my own experience theyre the right ones ie some form of social anarchy (communism socialism what ever as long as theyre some were on the left we are one step closer) with a little bit of help.

Basically people will become hostile to the idea/s that your tryin to spread if you preach , remember to teach not preach people have to come to these conclusions by themselves , its the only way INFORM and EDUCATE !!!

Does anyone have any suggestions to what kind of information should be included in such graffitti ?.... remeber they need to be short brief facts not manifestos or economic theories or poetic slogans .

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 08:10 PM
What about graffitti with a proper message like usful information , i mean theres really no point in putting up all these fancy poetic slogans about revolution or freedom or what ever cause at the end of the day most people think thats nothin but hippie / commie /anarcist bullshit ....

so what about usful information like FACTS about corporations the government or any number of things ... information people can use ..

educating people to the faults of the current system is the key , let them come to their own conclusions , and usually form my own experience theyre the right ones ie some form of social anarchy (communism socialism what ever as long as theyre some were on the left we are one step closer) with a little bit of help.

Basically people will become hostile to the idea/s that your tryin to spread if you preach , remember to teach not preach people have to come to these conclusions by themselves , its the only way INFORM and EDUCATE !!!

Does anyone have any suggestions to what kind of information should be included in such graffitti ?.... remeber they need to be short brief facts not manifestos or economic theories or poetic slogans .
I don't really agree with your point in a practical sense because I've seen loads of thought-provoking graf that is a bit abstract. Well, it wasn't nearly as direct as a manifesto anyway! :lol:

I think long amounts of text are, if anything, LESS likely to get people's attention than, say, an eyecatching stencil of an image. One example I've seen around Melbourne was one on Australia's Industrial Relations "reforms." It featured a boss and worker speaking, in comicbook style.

Boss: You're fucked now Billy.
Worker: Yes, sir. (I may be paraphrasing, but I think that's right.)

And I have NO problems with graf for its own sake, just because it looks cool. And as someone stated, it's a violation of private property. so yay!

[elmo sez]

yeah i totally agree that graffitti is a good thing, as long as its not shit ( but i suppose we all gotta start somewhere).

That comic book thing is the kind of thing im talking about, it was satirical and people knew what it was, the kind of graffitti that i think is usless is the kind that ssimply says "THE REVOLUTION IS COMING" etc what good is that to anyone , so what i propose is pictures that convey usful information or maybe even a simple fact underneath example

some kid eating a massive chocolate bar and the under neath or worked into it , it says 6 million slaves brought you this or somethin along those lines .

Basically, Eye-catching picture, with a point or fact

[An archist]

Facts?
What about the new bank cards (and ID cards in Europe)? They've got RFID chips in them, wich can hold ALL information of a person and can be read by special scanners, even without you knowing it. Also, in a couple of years/months/weeks (maybe secretly now already) they will be able to trace those chips anywhere they go. I think there are two bars where you can have such a chip implanted and use it to pay. If I remember well, they're in Holland and Spain.

Big Brother is watching you and you don't even know.

[elmo sez]

Man thats fucked up
ok so where gettin started .. but it needs to be shorter and you need actual proof so do some research when your positive its true try work it into aa brief summary and a pic to go along . im workin on some at the moment ill post them when there done

[razboz]

What could be interesting is getting the figures for people dying of poverty daily and painting them onto a wall next to ahelpfull image depicting some of the suffering they go through and updating it every so often.

To be honest the whole Big Brother is Watching thing is a bit petty, not to mention insanely bourgeois as akind of worry. i mean who owns a bank card? Somone who has enough money to be able to open an acount. An who would worry about the State knowing where they are spending their money?

You guessed riight: Capitalists afraid that increased state surveillace might interrupt their abitlity to spend.

[elmo sez]

yeah something like there are 27 million slaves in the world today ...with some slavery picture . ive been looking for some but cant seem to find a good one . Anybody any suggestions ?

[razboz]

Well what are you thinking about doing exactly? A stencil or a pastie of some sort? If you intend on working free hand onto your wall your gonna wnat to draw it out yourself: it alows you th ebe much more afamiliar with the drawing.

[elmo sez]

No im not talking about free hand well it is an option, but im talking mainly about making a stencil or pastie of somesort , something ready made , so an individual can go and stick it up with relative ease and speed.

How the stencil/pastie is made doesnt bother me , it can be freehand or done on photoshop.

[An archist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 07:59 PM
To be honest the whole Big Brother is Watching thing is a bit petty, not to mention insanely bourgeois as akind of worry. i mean who owns a bank card? Somone who has enough money to be able to open an acount. An who would worry about the State knowing where they are spending their money?

You guessed riight: Capitalists afraid that increased state surveillace might interrupt their abitlity to spend.
You may have missed my point there. I don't have a bank account, but I do ahve an ID card, of course you can leave that at home at the right times, but the point is: you can implant those chips! Fairly easily even.
and now they're making chips to put in your brains for medical treatments: for example to stop epileptics from getting seizures(?), but it's even possible to prevent depression. They can alter your mood! and these chips are just in the beginning phase. what if they start implanting them in criminals brains to prevent them from committing crimes? :ph34r:

Anyway, I'm getting oof topic, continue please.

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 08:10 PM

so what about usful information like FACTS about corporations the government or any number of things ... information people can use ..

educating people to the faults of the current system is the key , let them come to their own conclusions , and usually form my own experience theyre the right ones ie some form of social anarchy (communism socialism what ever as long as theyre some were on the left we are one step closer) with a little bit of help.

Basically people will become hostile to the idea/s that your tryin to spread if you preach , remember to teach not preach people have to come to these conclusions by themselves , its the only way INFORM and EDUCATE !!!

Does anyone have any suggestions to what kind of information should be included in such graffitti ?.... remeber they need to be short brief facts not manifestos or economic theories or poetic slogans .
I totaly agree with that, people have to be told the truth about their employers, big private companies etc. Either way, it has to be something they can link to their own lives, for example, Me and my "team" here in Croatia have done that sort of stuff using facts against the opressors; write on the wall how much is Kerum's(one of the local rich guys) anual profit and than write how much is the average clerks salary in his markets. To give you a hint; a family with no children NEEDS around 3,700 kn for one month(with that amount they would live in poverty) and the salary of a clerk in mentioned market is around 2,700 kn. And, making it all worse that man, that god damn capitalist junk is shownig off with his blood money buying MORE THAN FANCY cars and stuff like that.
If you show this kind of info to people and if they see that there is someone that dares to speak the truth and oposse their enslavers THAN there will be a change in voting, if that's your aim.
:ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

[elmo sez]

Thats pretty much the aim.

If anyones got any interesting facts / statistics / etc post them up so then maybe someone else can help come up with a stencil idea .

Good work Gojo

[An archist]

Well, I'd try to find information on wages and stuff like that.

[dannie]

an archist, here are some salarys of topmanagers with NMBS, De Post and others. I'm sure as hell going to use this on my next graffitying spree

Johnny Thijs, (De Post, 820.000 euro).
Didier Bellens, (Belgacom, 2,2 miljoen euro).

source (http://www.ptb.be/scripts/article.phtml?section=A2AAAABK&obid=31225)

Jannie Haek (SP.a)
Topmanager NMBS holding
Loon 2005: 0,40 à 0,63 miljoen euro

Jean-Luc Dehaene (CD&V)
Raad van bestuur InBev
Aanwezigheidspremies 2005: 79.000 euro

Pierre Richard
Topmanager Dexia
Loon 2005: 5,27 miljoen euro

Pierre-Olivier Beckers
Topmanager Delhaize
Loon 2005: 2,22 miljoen euro

source (http://www.ptb.be/scripts/article.phtml?section=A2AAAABK&obid=31111)

1.5 million belgians (15%) earn a meager 775 euros a month, having to work 16 years to earn the average monthly income of the bel-20 managers

[elmo sez]

What about including the hours they work too , thats if you can get a hold of them

[An archist]

:blink: How did you foun out I'm Belgian?

Thanks though, I'm quite active in 'poetic terrorism', so I can surely use that.

EDIT: the source is interesting too, the perfect slogan for a wall "these gentleman think you earn too much money" and then they give their wages. :D

Thanks a million Jannes (are you flemish?)

[dannie]

you wrote you could distribute pamphlets in belgium somewhere so i figured you must live here, yep i'm flemish

[Gojo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 05:01 PM
an archist, here are some salarys of topmanagers with NMBS, De Post and others. I'm sure as hell going to use this on my next graffitying spree

Johnny Thijs, (De Post, 820.000 euro).
Didier Bellens, (Belgacom, 2,2 miljoen euro).

source (http://www.ptb.be/scripts/article.phtml?section=A2AAAABK&obid=31225)

Jannie Haek (SP.a)
Topmanager NMBS holding
Loon 2005: 0,40 à 0,63 miljoen euro

Jean-Luc Dehaene (CD&V)
Raad van bestuur InBev
Aanwezigheidspremies 2005: 79.000 euro

Pierre Richard
Topmanager Dexia
Loon 2005: 5,27 miljoen euro

Pierre-Olivier Beckers
Topmanager Delhaize
Loon 2005: 2,22 miljoen euro

source (http://www.ptb.be/scripts/article.phtml?section=A2AAAABK&obid=31111)

1.5 million belgians (15%) earn a meager 775 euros a month, having to work 16 years to earn the average monthly income of the bel-20 managers
:o even though I knew these kind of things I ALWAYS GET TOTALY SHOCKED when faced with these "BRUTAL TRUTH" numbers.
I'd say that this alone is more than reason enough to start a fucking riot or torch the nearest mc'donalds. God, if people only knew this facts....
well, that's all up to us :ph34r:

[elmo sez]

Its a good start but has anyone got something a bit more international ;)

[An archist]

It shouldn't be too hard to find those figures for other countries should it?

[Fidel Follower]

I think the street art should be quick, and different, something to make you think, something to make you stop, because i for one wouldn't drive by and takea good hard look at aloda fingures.

Any way, it is art. The leftist messages are a plus.....(*a very BIG plus at that* :D *)

[An archist]

Other ways of graffity are writing messages on money, money passes everywhere, from rich to poor, black to white.

[razboz]

One thing i though might be neat is to get some instant cement and a wall and glue bits of miror ont it. Then paste some real good clour fotocopies of bills all around it. Somewhere on it there would be the inscription : " Look at yourself, not your money" or something of that kidney.

Feel free to use my idea.

[Fidel Follower]

Okies, thanks.

[renagade]

i have been a writer for about a year now and it is a very good way to get back at the community and make them spend money, just a long as you hit large corparations and not small business. political images are good also for stencil graff.
a good political protest as well...

[Angelo-Von-Drez]

I go round my town with a friend graffitting -

"KURT WEILL Shall Rise Again..."

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y196/angelo-von-drez/KurtWeillshallRiseAgain.jpg

There's one of them. (More Pics soon) :rolleyes:
If you have the urge to do it in your town please... do it.
:P
Kurt Weill represents everything anti-fascist and left wing in our artisitc society. While being a Communist Jew in 1930s Fascist Nazi Germany, he also created revolution amongst his discordant music. He attacked Hitler while working with Bertolt Brecht who is possibly the most left-wing politically activist playwright in history.

Graffiti it!
"KURT WEILL SHALL RISE AGAIN..." :lol:

[razboz]

Haha pun!

"KURT WEIL RISE AGAIN"!

Get it?

[which doctor]

too bad many people don't know who kurt weill. Therefore your political message turns into confusion for most people

[RevSouth]

Some graffiti I saw or something.

[RevSouth]

Sorry about the double post, but heres the second one.

EDIT: arrgh this one looks shitty. Definitely not making it onto Black Daggers deviantart page.

[Pawn Power]

I like the squids, they are fun.

[Black Dagger]

Those are cute RedSouth, not sure if you should make any admissions as to their author though, perhaps edit your post? :P