People Come to America for Freedom

[Columbia]

On another thread, I made the comment:
You'd have to ask the tens of millions of people who immigrated to America why they did it.

I received the response:
I wouldn't say (in most cases) it's "freedom" they emigrate for, rather a higher standard of living. For instance I've heard American prisons are considered a step up by some immigrants.


These comments have been made before and have received the same, through away comment, that it's all about economics, and not about freedom.

Well, now it's time for those who believe this to show me some evidence of this. Tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands not only immigrate, but nationalize each year (there's no one making them do so), and all the Left says is that the USA is bad news.

Of course there are economic benefits to living in America, but the same can be said of many other countries.

So stop giving me your opinion, Lefties, show me the poll that says people immigrate here for cash, and could give a rat's ass about "freedom". Show me anything relating to this notion.

There may not be anything out there. But Europe has a vibrant economy, as does parts of Asia. How many people move permanently to Taiwan? I'm sure there is immigration to western Europe of this nature, and Australia, but what are the numbers.

Put your figures where your mouth is.

[KC]

Since you are making a positive assertion then you must also prove your position and provide evidence.

Here's something that you'll find interesting:

Net Migration Rate(Source (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2112.html))

Afghanistan 21.43 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Andorra 6.53 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Anquilla 8.83 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Australia 3.91 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Botswana 6.07 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
British Virgin Islands 10.01 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Brunei 3.45 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Canada 5.9 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
French Guiana 5.11 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Guernsey 3.83 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Hong Kong 5.24 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Ireland 4.93 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Isle of Man 5.33 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Jordan 6.42 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Kuwait 14.96 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Liechtenstein 4.8 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Luxembourg 8.86 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Macau 4.86 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Mayotte 5.62 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Monaco 7.71 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
New Zealand 3.83 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Northern Mariana Islands 8.92 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Portugal 3.49 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Qatar 15.17 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
San Marino 10.84 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Singapore 10.3 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Somalia 5.19 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
United States 3.31 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)

[Sentinel]

http://www.scb.se/templates/tableOrChart____91833.asp

Here you will find the immigration rate to Sweden. When looking at these numbers please indicate, that Sweden is a small country with less than 10 million inhabitants.

Sweden is far from socialist, regrettably, but years of class struggle and social democrat rule have made the welfare system one of the most outstanding in the world.

The taxes are also among the highest in the world.

So saying that people only leave their homes "looking for freedom" is bullshit. With few exceptions they are looking for security, which they won't find in the USA.

I'm not saying Sweden is an ideal society, of course, since the capitalism is "still there", but it's pretty far from the american Lick-up-kick-down-survival-of-the-
fittest-Freedom kind of place.

The people who go to America "looking for freedom" to oppress workers are mostly from western capitalist countries where the laws still prohibite the cruelest, most open kind of capitalist bloodsucking.

[Columbia]

Afghanistan 21.43 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)

The United States frees a nation, and everyone returns to it.

God Bless America.

Are WE the fucken greatest thing since sliced bread, or what!

I am beginning to believe that ALL "socialist" nations are going capitalist becuase it blends se well with freedom and American values.

Cuba and Venezuela will be there next, D BY CHOICE!

We continue to bring freedom to the world.

[KC]

Good job completely avoiding the topic at hand.

[red team]

Since Americans value "freedom" so much why are they militarizing the Mexican border to prevent "freedom" loving Mexicans from sneaking across the border? If what you say is true and the Mexicans going across the border to America are simply doing it for freedom who are the American government to prevent them from achieving "freedom" by blocking them from coming over? In that case aren't they enemies of freedom? :lol:

Can you just smell the stink of hypocrisy and lies? :lol:

[вор в законе]

Columbia has a point.

During the first half of the previous century America was a nation that accepted many immigrants (due to their industrial policy, not because of love) and most of these immigrants in fact believed that America was this capitalist paradise where everyone becomes rich and wealthy.

But when they arrived there, they suddenly realised that America was not this capitalist paradise that they thought it would be. :(

And this is how the following philosophical dictium came to birth :

''"Look, I came to America because I heard the streets were paved with gold. But when I got here, I found out three things: first, the streets weren't paved with gold; second, some of the streets weren't paved at all; and third, I was expected to pave them."

[ComTom]

Well its too bad that the Irish came over to America because there was a famine, for that was the reason they all came over. It is also weird that when the Italians/Poles/Russians/etc. immigrants started coming over in the late 19th century that they started to form popular leftist groups. Ever hear of the story of Sacco and Vanzetti? How immigrants were suppressed of their freedom? Did you ever hear that atleast a million immigrants were active in millitant labor movements made up of immigrants? Did you know that recently Mexican grape pickers have marched with a picture of Che, wasn't he a socialist? No, most likely not. Did you ever heard police brutality of immigrants is on a wide scale? Capitalists only like immigration on the simple fact that they can provide themselves with cheap labor.

MANY IMMIGRANTS CALLED THEMSELVES SOCIALISTS AND ANARCHISTS.

[CrazyModerate]

Originally posted by The [email protected] 25 2006, 08:24 PM
http://www.scb.se/templates/tableOrChart____91833.asp

Here you will find the immigration rate to Sweden. When looking at these numbers please indicate, that Sweden is a small country with less than 10 million inhabitants.

Sweden is far from socialist, regrettably, but years of class struggle and social democrat rule have made the welfare system one of the most outstanding in the world.

The taxes are also among the highest in the world.

So saying that people only leave their homes "looking for freedom" is bullshit. With few exceptions they are looking for security, which they won't find in the USA.

I'm not saying Sweden is an ideal society, of course, since the capitalism is "still there", but it's pretty far from the american Lick-up-kick-down-survival-of-the-
fittest-Freedom kind of place.

The people who go to America "looking for freedom" to oppress workers are mostly from western capitalist countries where the laws still prohibite the cruelest, most open kind of capitalist bloodsucking.
Sweden is better for workers than almost any nation in the history of the world. Social Democracy is the closest thing to marxism.

Getting that off my chest, I would like to say, most immigrants to the USA come for the wealth. If they weren't free in their home countries they wouldn't be able to get to the States.

[Severian]

Why do you keep making the same post over and over again, Columbia? Do you have anything to say besides this one thing?

Seems like spam to me.

[Iroquois Xavier]

America + Freedom = BULLSHIT!

America and Freedom are words that do not connect to each other in any way except contradictions. America would not know freedom if it was naked and slapped them in the face! :lol:

Your views are confused codswallop!

[Sentinel]

Sweden is better for workers than almost any nation in the history of the world. Social Democracy is the closest thing to marxism.

Let's not get fooled by the "velvet" prison provided to the proletariat by reformists.
While high welfare capitalism has better living standards for workers than naked capitalism, it is still capitalism.

We are still wageslaves, and the capitalist ruling class still holds the society in check.
Social democrats can never become progressive enough. Every time they want to
raise the taxes for the rich, the CEOs threaten to move their businesses abroad.

And since the nineties, the social democrats have constantly moved to the right.
They have sold out most of public property in Sweden. Any "real" socialist ideology
there ever was disappeared with the assassination of Olof Palme (1986).

While we still have a long road to america-type capitalism, we have clearly seen that reformism has little to offer the for the proletariat in the end. The social democrats are only trying to make capitalism work. They hinder the class struggle actually.

They are not marxists.

[ack]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 06:12 PM
Afghanistan 21.43 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)

The United States frees a nation, and everyone returns to it.

God Bless America.

Are WE the fucken greatest thing since sliced bread, or what!

I am beginning to believe that ALL "socialist" nations are going capitalist becuase it blends se well with freedom and American values.

Cuba and Venezuela will be there next, D BY CHOICE!

We continue to bring freedom to the world.
Too bad that America's on it's way out. Thanks to your buddy Bush, our econonmy has fallen into a recession. Next up: China/India.

[Forward Union]

Freedom is to be exempt from the arbitrary exercise of authority...

So if you have authority in any arbitrary form, you do not have freedom.

*thank you, and goodnight*

[boosh logic]

We continue to bring freedom to the world.


What the fuck is the we?

Have you done anything to "free" these people?

Have you risked your life to help anyone?

Just because you were born on that side of the border doesn't mean you can say "we", you're just a pig eating the slop in front of you and telling the chef to keep it coming, regardless of whose expense it is at.

[Columbia]

Red Brigade:

I enjoyed this comment very much. It's one of those things that is simple, yet also shows insight. Before now, I had only heard of the first sentence.

''"Look, I came to America because I heard the streets were paved with gold. But when I got here, I found out three things: first, the streets weren't paved with gold; second, some of the streets weren't paved at all; and third, I was expected to pave them."

boosh logic:

I have, infact, contibuted to the freedom of America, by working to insure/support the Union of the United States of America. I don't know if you realize this (I'm not being smarmy, I just don't know your expertize.) but there are various organizations who work to achieve a physical separation of the United States in smaller sections, such as the Aztlan nation, the independence of San Francisco or California, and the reclaimation of Hawaii as a reestablished kingdom, etc. (I won't bore you with all of them.) Obviously, to continue America is to fight for freedom. I'm sure along these Union lines, I have your support. Most people here, though "revolutionary", support the maintainance of a UNITED states of America.


Additives Free wrote:

Freedom is to be exempt from the arbitrary exercise of authority...
So if you have authority in any arbitrary form, you do not have freedom.

Of course, the word Additives phrase turns on is "arbitrary", and he is of course, correct. However, in the United States, it is the Supreme Court which determins what is and what isn't "arbitrary", for purposes of state authority. They don't do a bad job at it.

You will perhaps note that there is a split, mainly along Dem v. Repub lines in the Senate in the matter of the recent Supreme court Associate justice position. In voting against the candidate, many Dems are worried that his writings fall too much on the side of the state, and not enough on the plaintiff, whose rights were, from his point of view, abridged.

My point is that as long as this issue is always alive and well in argument in America, that is a good thing. I realize that for many "anarchists" this is not "good enough". However, from a world view, America is EXTREEMLY LIBERAL in the area's of the individual's rights.


ack wrote:

Too bad that America's on it's way out. Thanks to your buddy Bush, our econonmy has fallen into a recession. Next up: China/India.

Remember, I'm the one linking the love of America NOT to economics. That's you guys (or at least many's view here, and the reason for my making the thesis of this post.)

The U.S. has had many recisions. Big deal. They hardly define us. If you believe that people throughout the world will eventually immigrate to China and India in tens of thousands yearly, then make your point. In 2005, how many "Non-Chinese" (I'm talking naitonality, not ethnicity) have nationalized to become good little PRC citizens? There are of course, North Koeans who do their best to enter China illegally. Now that's TRUE immigration fo economics and getting fed.


The Sentinel:

I have no real interests in the internal decisions of Sweden. It may do as it pleases. If it wishes to move more to the "LEFT", who cares, except for the Swedish. But keep making those movies!


Iroquois Xavier wrote:

America + Freedom = BULLSHIT!
America and Freedom are words that do not connect to each other in any way except contradictions. America would not know freedom if it was naked and slapped them in the face!
Your views are confused codswallop!

Umm, you really need to take a tour of the world and see what's out there.

La Ciudad Segunda De Inglaterra

Well, I don't know where La Ciudad Segunda De Inglaterra is. I know that "ciudad" means city, and La Ciudad means "The City", but Google wasn't too helpful with the rest of your town's name. I don't agree with anything your wrote, and there appears to be no connection between any discussion we may have. Because yoyu appear to be dedicated to fixing the tarnished view of Communism, and I am interested in the indivisibility of the United States of America, we appaer to have lines that will never meet. I read all of your pledges and vows, and am glad you're so passionate, especially at 17 or 18. You wrote that you wanted to do something to improve either the world view of communism, or the actual practice of it.

This has always been strange to me. You know that my post is about people coming to America for freedomsake. Well, you may argue that we in America openly argue that greed is good, and that we believe in open markets and free enterprise, and capitalism. You'd think that no one would want to come here, to nationalize here. At the same time, Communism SHOULD be an easy sell: There are more poor than rich, and the idea of collectively sharing everything's got to be such a winner that it should sell itself. Then why doesn't it? Why are you having to dedicate yourself to its tarnished image? I should think people would flock to Communism. I'm not being silly, I'm being serious.

The world views America as a place of freedom and opportuntiy, and Communist nations as prisons. I realize that one can travel in circles where this discussion is not the case, and America is seen as the devil, and socialism the great goal to achieve. I do not travel in such circles, and regardless of the present Anti-Americanism that is popular especially because of the Iraq War, that does not magically make the former USSR, China and Cuba systems that others are copying.

Red team:

Ironically, the laws that apply to those entering our country illegally are FAR more kind than those of the rest of the world. Perhaps that slipped your mind.

[Sentinel]

Columbia:

If you have "no interests in the internal decisions of Sweden", why did you ask this then:


But Europe has a vibrant economy, as does parts of Asia. How many people move permanently to Taiwan? I'm sure there is immigration to western Europe of this nature, and Australia, but what are the numbers.

My post showed that there are other countries, with different systems than the American, that people choose to move to in large numbers. They look for security, not "freedom". Don't be ignorant.


But keep making those movies!

Swedish movies are great indeed. If only your taste in politics was as good. :rolleyes:

[KC]

No reply to my post, Columbia?

[Columbia]

Hi Lazar,

Didn't mean to disregard what you wrote.

So, how did you guys beat Northwestern and lose to North Dakota State?

Look: If I got 20 people in Upper Slabobia and allow one more in, that's a 5% increase in population in immigration in relation to the population as a whole.

If we have a nation of 285,000,000 or whatever we have, it's gonna take nearly 15,000,000 to match Slabobia's percentage.

I was speaking in sheer numbers. I'm also discussing America's historical track record (or, actually, the record of people coming here to live) over many decades. Millions want to come here and want to be citizens of our nation. People kill themselves trying to get here. You can't say the same about your list.

Do you believe they're all suckers. Would you try and stop them from coming here?

[KC]

Look: If I got 20 people in Upper Slabobia and allow one more in, that's a 5% increase in population in immigration in relation to the population as a whole.

If we have a nation of 285,000,000 or whatever we have, it's gonna take nearly 15,000,000 to match Slabobia's percentage.

I was speaking in sheer numbers. I'm also discussing America's historical track record (or, actually, the record of people coming here to live) over many decades. Millions want to come here and want to be citizens of our nation. People kill themselves trying to get here. You can't say the same about your list.

Our nation is also much larger. A percentage of land that someone takes up in a smaller nation has to be much larger in the united states to take up the same percentage. Therefore the United States can fit many more than smaller countries could. Percentages such as these are the best to go off of.

Also, the point was that people immigrate for many reasons besides freedom, and these percentages prove that.



Do you believe they're all suckers. Would you try and stop them from coming here?

Who's trying to stop them?

[Columbia]

Lazar, you wrote:

people immigrate for many reasons besides freedom


Thank you. You are the first here to admit that freedom is at least one factor considered in the reasons for immigrating to America.

Lazar,

I do not support the notion that the purpose of any nation, America included, is for a few rich people to enjoy life at the expense of the vast majority.

But I have written, in my profession and for non-internet publications, that people expect to make private arrangements, and that these arrangements are a form of natural freedom.

One of the hardest things for Communism/Maxism/Socialism/Leninism or what have you, is that one must restrain oneself from making an agreement between parties that does not take the society as a whole into consideration.

I know you're very young, but even so, try if you can to construct an agreement between yourself and another party that takes "society" into consideration as you do it.

Let's say you like to go to the movies and watch films where bad guys fight against America, America gets a bloody nose, fights back, and kicks their ass.

So you go and see the movie Air Force One, where the president's plane is hijacked by baddies who demand x and y. So President Harrison Ford fights them off aboard the plane and protects his family, also on the plane.

Now, that decision to watch that film was between you and the theatre owner, and you spent your $8 as you chose, and you got to see your movie. You "contracted to watch a film, the theatre delivered (or, as we say, performed) on the contract, and all are happy.

Now, let us say that you want to consdier "Society" into the mix.

OK, the vice president is a woman in this film (portrayed by Glen Close, in fact), and she has to make the very real decision of whether to invoke the powers in the 25th Amendment, allowing the Cabinet to remove preidential powers from Harry Ford and take them herself, as the amendment allows.

What if there's a group of people who believe Glen Close should have played this character more firmly, taking the power from Ford rather than waiting (as her character did) to determine whether Ford could still operate as president.

How do you determine what society's best goal is in this situation?

Now expand that to include every decision you make and every decision every person has to make.

Does such a socialist society you would hope for issue demands to every film made, that women are to portray themselves as "wymen".

Extend this to its absurdity, and you understand what I'm discussing.

So, this freedom to contract becomes an issue when one consideres what "Society" wants.

How can this be reconciled?

[Iroquois Xavier]

I need to see the world and you cant even translate spanish?

Ciudad does mean city. well done! :) Segunda means second and Inglaterra means England. La means The. it roughly translates as "The City Second of England" rearranged it is "The Second City of England" which is?

17/18 years old? Maths not a subject of yours then? :rolleyes:

Communism is viewed as dirt because of America spreading hatred of it about and Stalins authoritarian government.

The ignorant masses of America fail to grasp communism as it is taught to them at an early age as "Bad". Open Your Eyes And You Will See :ph34r:

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 11:12 PM
Afghanistan 21.43 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)

The United States frees a nation, and everyone returns to it.
Why do you think they left in the first place? Oh wait, maybe because some imperialist nation started bombing the whole fucking country down and turned the place into a living hell?

Idiot.


God Bless America.
Yeah, and the tooth fairy bless the UK...


Are WE the fucken greatest thing since sliced bread, or what!
Err.. No?


I am beginning to believe that ALL "socialist" nations are going capitalist becuase it blends se well with freedom and American values.
Exactly, capitalism and America are both well-known for their sense of freedom.. :rolleyes:


Cuba and Venezuela will be there next, D BY CHOICE!
Lol
America has been saying they will take over/punish/destroy Cuba for decades, and they still can't do shit. If that's not pathetic, I don't know what is.


We continue to bring freedom to the world.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


No, seriously...

:lol: :lol:

[Columbia]

Iroquois Xavier:

I need to see the world and you cant even translate spanish?

I'm sure there are plenty of languages you don't know either. The little Spanish I know if from a former boyfriend from Mexico.

Ciudad does mean city. well done! Segunda means second and Inglaterra means England. La means The. it roughly translates as "The City Second of England" rearranged it is "The Second City of England" which is?

Great! Yet another commie who refuses to use the actual names for people, wants to number everything or call it Peoples City No. 2 or something like that.


17/18 years old? Maths not a subject of yours then?

So you're 16 going on 17...I didn't do the math, just estimated. Does it really matter?

Communism is viewed as dirt because of America spreading hatred of it about and Stalins authoritarian government.

That is illogical. There are PLENTY of people in the world who are not fond of America and want to see the destruction of capitalism. I guess you haven't seen all the "ABOLISH CAPITALISM" signs at various protests. The irony is that so many people want to leave "communist" countries and everyone wants to come to "capitalist" ones. Of course some prefer going to democratic socialist countries with a strong safety net and high taxes like Sweden. Fine by me. BUT NO ONE IS BEATING DOWN THE DOORS TO ENTER A COMMIE COUNTRY.

Why not? And please don't blame America. If the vast majority of the world wouldn't follow us into Iraq then then they're capable of choosing their own economic system.

The ignorant masses of America fail to grasp communism as it is taught to them at an early age as "Bad". Open Your Eyes And You Will See

Well, not any more. The Cold War being over, there's far less in state text books about government (usually taught in 12th grade) that discuss the evils of Communism. It really depends on the teacher, but the obsession with Capitalism v. Marxism went out with American v. the Soviets.

If you should know, the "ignorant masses" in my country are far more interested in "capitalism" because the culture of music, fashion and entertainment leads one in that direction, and people, from an early age in the U.S., are saturated with this. But they like it, so that's their business. My eyes are plenty open and I see it all the time. I suppose there's something similar you deal with in the UK as well, but I wouldn't know. It's one of the places I've never visited.



RedFaction:

Why do you think they left in the first place? Oh wait, maybe because some imperialist nation started bombing the whole fucking country down and turned the place into a living hell?
Idiot.

Sorry moron, you're the idiot here. They ran from being beat up for not growing their beards, or not having their daughters be allowed to wear what they want or learn anything. They returned after we helped them build a government with some secularism.


God Bless America.

Yeah, and the tooth fairy bless the UK...

That's between you and God. I'm really not interested in your teeth. Yuck!


Are WE the fucken greatest thing since sliced bread, or what!

Err.. No?

Err..Yes!

I am beginning to believe that ALL "socialist" nations are going capitalist becuase it blends se well with freedom and American values.

Exactly, capitalism and America are both well-known for their sense of freedom..

We finally agree on something.


Cuba and Venezuela will be there next, D BY CHOICE!

Lol
America has been saying they will take over/punish/destroy Cuba for decades, and they still can't do shit. If that's not pathetic, I don't know what is.

I am not aware of anyone in government saying "America will take over or destroy Cuba." After the Cuban Missile Crisis of '62, the U.S. promised it would not attempt such a thing, and for over 40 years it's kept its promise. I do not speak of the Embargo, but of an overt or covert invasion. It is not pathetic that we do not do this, but the correct way to act. We made this promise, we should live up to us. I do not know of any people who "laugh" at us for not invading Cuba. Maybe some Cuban nationals living in Miami, but not the vast majority of Americans.


We continue to bring freedom to the world.

If you truely wish to laugh at something, drop your pants and look in the mirror.

No, seriously...

[Iroquois Xavier]

I know English, most Spanish, some french and some German. And some Irish as i am of Irish descent.

If your eyes are open wipe the shit out of them. :rolleyes:

You are blinded by the fake patriotism your country preaches. Your country is an Imperial shithole run by the most idiotic fascist since Mr Hitler told Mrs Hitler "Come on Helga im feeling frisky!" :)

Your country invades or as Bush would say "Liberates" countries from evil dictators when America is run by the biggest dictator of them all. I still cannot believe that idiots like you still exist. While Bush sends his lambs to the slaughter in Iraq you praise him for saving the day!

You prove how cold and heartless you really are by trying to justify Hiroshima as if it was necessary. Innocent Civilians Being Slaughtered Is Never Necessary :angry:

No ones breaking down the doors to enter a commie country? Commie countrie dont have doors, America has a 20 ft iron fence around it. You used to go out with a Mexican? Did he have to crawl under a fence to get in? If he did he is lucky he didnt get shot by border patrol! Your country is Hell on Earth!

HAVE A NICE DAY! :)

[boosh logic]

Do you believe they're all suckers. Would you try and stop them from coming here?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there numerous "peoples militia" groups on the border of mexico preventing south americans entry?

Whatever their reason for doing so, its not the left that is telling them to fuck off or throwing them in jail.

[Columbia]

I know English, most Spanish, some french and some German. And some Irish as i am of Irish descent.

I'm very happy for you.

I enjoyed France. Paris is a beautiful city. It's too bad the French live there. Ha! (I wish that was mine, but it's Mark Tawin.) I loved Germany. I never imagined it to be son green. I am of Irish descent on my father's side, which probably explains the drinking. Ha!


If your eyes are open wipe the shit out of them.
You are blinded by the fake patriotism your country preaches. Your country is an Imperial shithole run by the most idiotic fascist since Mr Hitler told Mrs Hitler "Come on Helga im feeling frisky!"

Well, I don't know where to go with this one. My government does very little to encourage my patriotism, at least in the preaching department. At least, I have never been aware of this. And you appear to make comments implying that you know ME specifically. Or can figure me out based on my comments. I hope I'm more complex than that. But the fact that I am "partiotic" does not define me and who I am.

Also, this comparison to Hitler and Bush is one of the silliest disservices the far Left did to itself. You're going to look like idiots on Jan 20, 2009, when a new person is sworn in as President. And here, you are at far more of a loss than I am as your retoric has trapped you: Either Bush is an anomoly of an American leader, unlike the others, and he has a plan to create some Neo-Conservative funky America, or he's merely the face of America that is true no matter who is president.

If he's "the most idiotic fascist since Mr Hitler told Mrs Hitler "Come on Helga im feeling frisky!" then he won't leave on Jan 20, 2009. Now get this, Iroquois: Here we will be brutally honest. No fascist, NOT ONE OF THEM, has ever announced/did the public know of when he would step down. NOT EVER! To be a fascist is to stay in power until you are killed, or die of some cause, or are exiled to some island. Now, we have some questions about President Bush here in the U.S. re: his ordering wiretaps and whether his administration leaked the name of a CIA officer to the press. But these things are more or less domestic in nature. Then there's the war in Iraq. Only history will show whether or not it was a good thing; whether Saddam shoudl have been forced out; whether we should have stayed to help them with their government. But remember that our House and Senate passed legislation for the invasion of Iraq. So Bush didn't do this alone. Also, your House of Commons paid some money also. And, unlike our system, you in the UK can, more or less, change your government in a day. You see, you have the Blair Government, and you say it that way. We do not have the Bush Government. We have the Bush Administration, the 108th Congress and the Roberts Supreme Court. Together, they are our government. We can't "get rid of Bush" unless there was an impeachment.

Now, let's say that you believe that Bush is not a facsist, but simply a more personification of the same old America that's been screwing the world over. If he's that, then he's no fascist. He's simply Clinton, his father, Carter, Reagan, FDR, Kennedy, Ford, etc. Many at this board believe this. They believe that who ever the president is is meaningless, and that the forces of commerce and industry run America, and Bush or Clinton, merely a puppet.

So take your pick. But fascist? Gimme a break.

Your country invades or as Bush would say "Liberates" countries from evil dictators when America is run by the biggest dictator of them all.

Again, a dictator requires greater powers than those given to our president under Art II or our Constitution. And if you're correct, ALL American presidents are dictators, and I can make a very good case that FDR was a greater dictator than any of them by far. (I think any view of U.S. history would demonstrate that Lincoln had more power than any other U.S. president. He "suspended" habeus corpus, and didn't allow Congress to meet for a few months, and did a whole bunch of other stuff. Far more than Bush, he is HATED by the Revolutionary Left, becuase he set the standard that any part of America which tries to break off will be dealt with with military force.)

I still cannot believe that idiots like you still exist.

I'm hardly an idiot. And yes, I do exist. (I write to RevolutionaryLeft, therefore I am. Hee hee.)


While Bush sends his lambs to the slaughter in Iraq you praise him for saving the day!

This statement is hardly worthy of comment.


You prove how cold and heartless you really are by trying to justify Hiroshima as if it was necessary.

I haven't mentioned Hiroshima. But, if you're curious: I'd choose Hiroshima over sending in troops to the entire Japanese Islands. That could have caused hundreds of thousands dead. From our troops to the Japanese subjects. Remember that in 2,000 years of history, the Japanese had never been defeated, and the notion of defeat to them was something that was so out of their thoughts, there is no telling what the common farmer, or businessman would have done to see a Yankee running around their properties.



Innocent Civilians Being Slaughtered Is Never Necessary

This is a philosophical question, of course. Were the Germans who supported Hitler innocent? That's a tough one. A lot of people believe that Americans are not "innocent civilians" and are free to kill to advance some political agenda.

Person X kills Y. Then he runs into city Z. City Z will not "give him up" and will continue to hide him. Are they innocent if Y's army kills them to get to X?


No ones breaking down the doors to enter a commie country? Commie countrie dont have doors,

Most people at this board do not believe there are any commmie contries. And it was an expression. Gees!


America has a 20 ft iron fence around it.

Not a chance. Though this is being debated as we write to each other. But what do you care if we have such a thing? It's not your business. I mean, I really could care less if you have an open border with France or not.


You used to go out with a Mexican? Did he have to crawl under a fence to get in?

He was what we call a legal resident.


If he did he is lucky he didnt get shot by border patrol!

Illegally entering the US is NOT a crime, though many wish it were and may change that. It is currently a tort (a civil action) against the US. Get shot?!? You really didn't learn this crap in school did you? I think you're starting to simply joke with me now.


Your country is Hell on Earth!

Yeah, people are always killing themselves to get into hell.


HAVE A NICE DAY!

It has been a good one so far. (9:35 a.m.) Gonna go out and do some capitalist things after work.

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 04:56 PM
RedFaction:

Why do you think they left in the first place? Oh wait, maybe because some imperialist nation started bombing the whole fucking country down and turned the place into a living hell?
Idiot.

Sorry moron, you're the idiot here. They ran from being beat up for not growing their beards, or not having their daughters be allowed to wear what they want or learn anything. They returned after we helped them build a government with some secularism.
No they fucking well didn't


I am beginning to believe that ALL "socialist" nations are going capitalist becuase it blends se well with freedom and American values.

Exactly, capitalism and America are both well-known for their sense of freedom..

We finally agree on something.
No we fucking well don't


I am not aware of anyone in government saying "America will take over or destroy Cuba." After the Cuban Missile Crisis of '62, the U.S. promised it would not attempt such a thing, and for over 40 years it's kept its promise. I do not speak of the Embargo, but of an overt or covert invasion. It is not pathetic that we do not do this, but the correct way to act. We made this promise, we should live up to us. I do not know of any people who "laugh" at us for not invading Cuba. Maybe some Cuban nationals living in Miami, but not the vast majority of Americans.
:blink: You just turned my whole point around; I'd never want the US invading Cuba, what makes you think I find that pathetic? It's pathetic that you so-called "patriots" keep claiming Cuba is a great threat (the "Ashes of Evil" as Dubya and Condi put it :D ) while knowing you can't do shit about it.

And why do you think they had to make that promise in the first place? Because they had tried to invade Cuba and failed miserably, so they were forced to make that humiliating promise.


We continue to bring freedom to the world.

If you truely wish to laugh at something, drop your pants and look in the mirror.

No, seriously...
I'm so glad you bring reasonable arguments into this debate ;)

[Tormented by Treachery]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 10:12 PM

The United States frees a nation, and everyone returns to it.

God Bless America.

Are WE the fucken greatest thing since sliced bread, or what!

...

We continue to bring freedom to the world.
In response to this, I give you:

"The spirit of democracy cannot be imposed from without. It has to come from within."
--Mohandas K Gandhi

Aint it the fuckin' truth.

[Comrade Hector]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 10:12 PM
Afghanistan 21.43 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)

The United States frees a nation, and everyone returns to it.

God Bless America.

Are WE the fucken greatest thing since sliced bread, or what!

I am beginning to believe that ALL "socialist" nations are going capitalist becuase it blends se well with freedom and American values.

Cuba and Venezuela will be there next, D BY CHOICE!

We continue to bring freedom to the world.
You are one dumb fucking republican, you know that? Aside from Sweden, most of Europe has far more freedom for their citizens that the USA has ever known. For example: they can travel anywhere on this planet, Americans cannot; Europeans can travel freely without the harassment for the officials with there paranoia. They can drink anywhere, as opposed to that shit of drinking beer from a paper bag. So what can we do in America that we can't do in Europe? Nothing! What can't we do in America that Europeans do? A lot of things!


Also, this comparison to Hitler and Bush is one of the silliest disservices the far Left did to itself. You're going to look like idiots on Jan 20, 2009, when a new person is sworn in as President. And here, you are at far more of a loss than I am as your retoric has trapped you: Either Bush is an anomoly of an American leader, unlike the others, and he has a plan to create some Neo-Conservative funky America, or he's merely the face of America that is true no matter who is president.

You are quite correct in this field. Hitler at least had a real vision, he was able to mobilze the people, win the whole country over to his cause. Hitler was a very intelligent and charismatic who convinced his people that his program would truly end poverty, corruption, and create a better society. Bush on the other hand, is as dumb as a freaking doorknob. The only reason people support him is because typical Americans believe whatever they hear without question, as long as their leader is a chauvinist, and a bible thumper. All Bush has done is tell is ignorant followers that they are threatened, and the believe it. Americans are a very paranoid people, and this is what the US government relies on the do what they do with the support of the people. This is not mobilizing people or winning them over, this is terrifying them. Bush is the face of American patriotic naivety and stupidity.

[ComTom]

COLUMBIA! YOu still have no awnsered me! If the immigrants came here because they love it so much, why did they call themselves anarchist and socialists? Why did they join groups intent on overthrowing the capitalist system of America? Ever here of Sacco and Vanzetti and how many Americans supported them? Did you ever hear about the large membership of the socialist party and how their ticket for the presidential election in the 1920s was considered a real threat the system? IMMIGRANTS WERE RADICALS! Even to today without the immigrant streets of New York no longer existing with strong leftist labor movements, we now see mexican workers joining hand in radical movements. As a matter of fact, Grape picker strikers in the 70s carried pictures of Che. THESE ARE RADICALS THAT NEEDED A JOB, THATS WHY THEY CAME TO AMERICA!

[Tormented by Treachery]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 28 2006, 08:37 PM
You are quite correct in this field. Hitler at least had a real vision, he was able to mobilze the people, win the whole country over to his cause. Hitler was a very intelligent and charismatic who convinced his people that his program would truly end poverty, corruption, and create a better society. Bush on the other hand, is as dumb as a freaking doorknob. The only reason people support him is because typical Americans believe whatever they hear without question, as long as their leader is a chauvinist, and a bible thumper. All Bush has done is tell is ignorant followers that they are threatened, and the believe it. Americans are a very paranoid people, and this is what the US government relies on the do what they do with the support of the people. This is not mobilizing people or winning them over, this is terrifying them. Bush is the face of American patriotic naivety and stupidity.
To add on to Comrade Hector's statement, Hitler did help the economy and practically end poverty, unlike Bush, who has tanked the economy and lost millions of jobs. And he was actually elected :lol:

If you doubt the second half of this paragraph, think of the fact that we invaded Iraq because we thought they were a threat to national security (laughable), we voted overwhelmingly in favor of the Patriot Act, most people have no qualms about the wiretapping scandal...

[Iroquois Xavier]

Originally posted by Tormented by [email protected] 28 2006, 10:08 PM
Hitler did help the economy and practically end poverty
Unless you were black or jewish. :rolleyes:

[Columbia]

Tormented, I answered your post in a new post called about democracy and the Middle East.

Comrade Hector, I am not a member of the Republican party, though I have voted for some on occasion. Your choice of examples re: freedom is pretty dumb. Americans can travel anywhere they wish. Merely because they cannot travel directly to Cuba doesn't stop them from going to Cuba through Mexico. So your statement here is wrong. There is no law preventing U.S. citizens from going anywhere.

Europeans travel without harrassment?!? I was in Germany at the Frankfurt airport. There were guys with machine guns everywhere. Officials in Europe have greater powers of hassling you than the U.S., even in the post 9-11 period. You're nuts. So, you can drink anywhere? That's your big claim to fame. Drinking laws of this kind are the purview of the various states. There are no "American" laws preventing one from drinking on the beach, but there are, let's say, North Carolina laws that do such. And this is your idea of freedom?

You don't have a Fourth and Fifth and Sixth Amendment in Europe. It's a great place, don't get me wrong, but come on. There are also in Europe PLENTY of social unwritten rules on behavior, for better or worse. Far more than in the U.S. I could go on, but gimme a break.

Second, my comments re: Bush were about fascism. If you prefer Hitler to Bush, that's your worry. Ha! What an idiot!

Com Tom, There were plenty of radicals who came from Europe, it's a more class conscous place than America, and they brought that with them. But this was not neccessarily the norm, or typical. Their workers were more left leaning and were involved in the pro-union movement. But radicals as the majority to overthrow America, you've been reading too many of J. Edgar's speaches.

Tormented, Yes, I can see everyone in Europe voting for a Hitler platform in 2010. Whatever dude!

[Atlas Swallowed]

Millions buy lottery tickets to get wealthy.

Millions buy diet pills to get thin.

So fucking what...

[loveme4whoiam]

Americans can travel anywhere they wish. Merely because they cannot travel directly to Cuba doesn't stop them from going to Cuba through Mexico. So your statement here is wrong. There is no law preventing U.S. citizens from going anywhere.

If Americans really are free to go wherever they wish, why shouldn't theybe able to go directly there?

EDIT - Realised I unnecessarily repeated myself there :blush: .

[Tormented by Treachery]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 04:44 PM
Tormented, Yes, I can see everyone in Europe voting for a Hitler platform in 2010. Whatever dude!
No way to twist a post quite like that. All I'm saying is that if you toned down Hitler's racism to an acceptable level (Read: Bush), made all of his charisma and success (for the Aryans, although Bush's limited gains seem to favor white folks as well) disappear, you'd have a candidate similar to Bush.

[Columbia]

Tormented by Treachery wrote:

You are quite correct in this field. Hitler at least had a real vision, he was able to mobilze the people, win the whole country over to his cause. Hitler was a very intelligent and charismatic who convinced his people that his program would truly end poverty, corruption, and create a better society. Bush on the other hand, is as dumb as a freaking doorknob. The only reason people support him is because typical Americans believe whatever they hear without question, as long as their leader is a chauvinist, and a bible thumper. All Bush has done is tell is ignorant followers that they are threatened, and the believe it. Americans are a very paranoid people, and this is what the US government relies on the do what they do with the support of the people. This is not mobilizing people or winning them over, this is terrifying them. Bush is the face of American patriotic naivety and stupidity.


This is probably the stupidest thing written on the board in the past while.


You are quite correct in this field. Hitler at least had a real vision, he was able to mobilze the people, win the whole country over to his cause.

He was a dictator. His party was THE only realistic party and rubberstamped every one of his plans. Everyone had to salute him in school every morning. His face was on placards everywhere. To not react in certain ways was criminal conduct. DO YOU GET THAT, TORMENTED, TO NOT RETURN THE SALUTE WAS A CRIMINAL ACT IN VARIOUS CIRCUMSTANCES. There were monthly parades NOT caused by spontanious love, but orchestrated from soup to nuts. There was no Supreme Court to overtun his actions. There was no minority party waiting in the wings.

If Bush had Hitler's powers, his dumbass Social Security plan would now be the law of the land.



Hitler was a very intelligent and charismatic who convinced his people that his program would truly end poverty, corruption, and create a better society.

HA! Idiot! "convinced his people". He had Brown Shirts that beat up his opposition during his early years. He as an electiric speaker speaking to a bankrupt people who had just lost a war and had a hated government.

None of this is Bush's lot.

Everything else you wrote was a pile of crap. You need help. Go to school. Eeesh.

[Columbia]

Atlas Swallowed wrote:

Millions buy lottery tickets to get wealthy.

Millions buy diet pills to get thin.

So fucking what...



Millions march in the streets of the world to prevent the invasion of Iraq.

Millions march in Europe hating America.

So fucking what...

[Iroquois Xavier]

Columbia... you still here? havent you got to kiss Bush's ass today?

[Comrade Hector]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2006, 04:44 PM
Tormented, I answered your post in a new post called about democracy and the Middle East.

Comrade Hector, I am not a member of the Republican party, though I have voted for some on occasion. Your choice of examples re: freedom is pretty dumb. Americans can travel anywhere they wish. Merely because they cannot travel directly to Cuba doesn't stop them from going to Cuba through Mexico. So your statement here is wrong. There is no law preventing U.S. citizens from going anywhere.

Europeans travel without harrassment?!? I was in Germany at the Frankfurt airport. There were guys with machine guns everywhere. Officials in Europe have greater powers of hassling you than the U.S., even in the post 9-11 period. You're nuts. So, you can drink anywhere? That's your big claim to fame. Drinking laws of this kind are the purview of the various states. There are no "American" laws preventing one from drinking on the beach, but there are, let's say, North Carolina laws that do such. And this is your idea of freedom?

You don't have a Fourth and Fifth and Sixth Amendment in Europe. It's a great place, don't get me wrong, but come on. There are also in Europe PLENTY of social unwritten rules on behavior, for better or worse. Far more than in the U.S. I could go on, but gimme a break.

Second, my comments re: Bush were about fascism. If you prefer Hitler to Bush, that's your worry. Ha! What an idiot!
Oh really? My stepfather went to Cuba in 1996 and upon his return officials said to him "Did you know it was illegal for Americans to travel to communist countries?". Something else that might be of interest, Bush a few years ago passed a law stating that any American who travels to Cuba is required to pay an $800 fine. Didn't like that? Well, how about Bobby Fischer. An American chess player who's only crime was being an American violating the embargo against Yugoslavia to play a chess game. Europeans never face this kind of harassment by their own officals. Maybe there is no law on paper, but that doesn't stop the harrassment.

I too was in Germany, kid. Summer of 2004. There was not one armed guard at the airport, in or out. My idea of freedom are gains Europeans have that Americans can't even begin to dream about. No curfew, no statutory "rape" laws, many social benefits (including medicine) , low crime (Western Europe), and far less restrictions. None of the above applies to the "Land of the free". The drinking argument was a mere example, moron. So tell me, what are these "social unwritten rules"?

I didn't say I prefered Hitler to Bush, you dumb conservative. Don't you brain-dead zombies read correctly? Obviously not! My argument was simple and clear: Bush and Hitler cannot be totally compared for the reason being that Hitler was a genius, and bush is a idiot with his head so far up his ass he can eat his consumed meal.

[Comrade Hector]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 02:32 AM
This is probably the stupidest thing written on the board in the past while.






I'm afraid you'll have to elaborate with other than just a blunt statement. Oops, I'm sorry. I forgot, I'm talking to an American conservative here.


He was a dictator. His party was THE only realistic party and rubberstamped every one of his plans. Everyone had to salute him in school every morning. His face was on placards everywhere. To not react in certain ways was criminal conduct. DO YOU GET THAT, TORMENTED, TO NOT RETURN THE SALUTE WAS A CRIMINAL ACT IN VARIOUS CIRCUMSTANCES. There were monthly parades NOT caused by spontanious love, but orchestrated from soup to nuts. There was no Supreme Court to overtun his actions. There was no minority party waiting in the wings.

If Bush had Hitler's powers, his dumbass Social Security plan would now be the law of the land.

HA! Idiot! "convinced his people". He had Brown Shirts that beat up his opposition during his early years. He as an electiric speaker speaking to a bankrupt people who had just lost a war and had a hated government.

None of this is Bush's lot.

Everything else you wrote was a pile of crap. You need help. Go to school. Eeesh.

Again, you've proven yourself incompetant. I'm not refering to Hitler's reign, but of his rise to power. Hitler did have a vast majority of Germany supporting, people whom he had won over with his speeches, his intellectual abilities, his awareness of the problems that faced Germany at the time, and his solutions. Due to the fact that Germany was bankrput, they wanted out of this misery. Hitler, of course provided to the public his program, which appealed to many in Germany. Yes, he had brown shirts beating up his opposition, which were mainly Communists. Ever wonder why Hitler had such widespred support with Churchill in the beginning? Read some history, boy! Better yet go to school, and maybe you can learn to think critically. Oh, wait what am I saying? Then you wouldn't such a good American patriot because you'd be thinking independently from the TV.

Although, you're right about one thing. It is definitely not Bush's lot. He doesn't brains it takes to do such things.

[Columbia]

Iroquois Xavier:

Hey, remember the post I wrote to respond to you. It's above and begins with:

I know English, most Spanish, some french and some German. And some Irish as i am of Irish descent.


Remember your not responding to it, because it made your arguments look like monkey-meat?

Well, you didn't respond because you can't. So don't post "kiss your ass" crap, ok? Back to school with you. Try learning something today before going home and watching SpongeBob.

Sucker.

[Columbia]

Comrade Hector,

There's no use wasting words on you. I'm very glad there are no statutory rape crimes in Europe and you can screw an 8 year old. As your idea of freedom surrounds drinking, diddling children and loving Hitler, who gives a shit what you believe about anything.

I am done responding to you under any circumstance.

Columbia

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 02:36 AM

Millions march in the streets of the world to prevent the invasion of Iraq.

Millions march in Europe hating America.

So fucking what...
Yeah thats what Dumbya and Cheaney said too....

Democracy for the few by the few..

Keep waving old glory or better yet shove it up your ass.

[Columbia]

You're partially right Atlas. I'll keep waving the Stars and Stripes and then one day shove it up YOUR ass.

Please do not respond with absurd 5th grade comments.

[loveme4whoiam]

Please do not respond with absurd 5th grade comments.

I beg your pardon? If you will perhaps look at your previous posts -


I am done responding to you under any circumstance.

Sounds pretty much like a 5th grader to me, except maybe with slighty better language than "I don't like you, I'm not talking to you!"

In your two previous posts you have made no form of coherent argument. By reducing your posts to childish insults you prove that we are right, unless of course you add something that actually means something to your argument, rather than "So fucking what..." :huh:

This post is dead. Your arguments have become nothing more than petty insults, whereas we (ie, Atlas Swallowed, Comrade Hector, Tormented by Treachery, and everyon else who has argued against you) have remained aloof from this crap.

Then again, you could opt to ignore this post since you don't like what I say. In that case, I'll drap myself down to your level for just a moment - "Your reasoning is crap, your belief is crap, and I think you're a fucking moron to constantly spout this bullshit." Understand that?

[Columbia]

loveme4whoiam:

What I understand is that my well reasoned arguments were too much for the list of morons you mentioned, and not having anything more to say, they started stating bullshit, which you are no doubt expert on.

I've never seen any of your posts here, and you're more dead than any post here, or any of your theories, that are now going down the toilet world wide.

You don't know your head from your ass, as if there is a difference.

[Sentinel]

Columbia: My first post in this thread sent your initial well reasoned argument "down the toilet".

Are you planning to answer to it this year? :rolleyes:

By showing you how enormous waves of people keep coming to Sweden, a country
where american-style capitalist freedom is just a wet dream for the ruling class,
I proved that "freedom" isn't the main reason people leave their native countries.

They do it looking for security. Period. (Yawn)

[Tormented by Treachery]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 02:32 AM
Tormented by Treachery wrote:

You are quite correct in this field. Hitler at least had a real vision, he was able to mobilze the people, win the whole country over to his cause. Hitler was a very intelligent and charismatic who convinced his people that his program would truly end poverty, corruption, and create a better society. Bush on the other hand, is as dumb as a freaking doorknob. The only reason people support him is because typical Americans believe whatever they hear without question, as long as their leader is a chauvinist, and a bible thumper. All Bush has done is tell is ignorant followers that they are threatened, and the believe it. Americans are a very paranoid people, and this is what the US government relies on the do what they do with the support of the people. This is not mobilizing people or winning them over, this is terrifying them. Bush is the face of American patriotic naivety and stupidity.


This is probably the stupidest thing written on the board in the past while.


You are quite correct in this field. Hitler at least had a real vision, he was able to mobilze the people, win the whole country over to his cause.

He was a dictator. His party was THE only realistic party and rubberstamped every one of his plans. Everyone had to salute him in school every morning. His face was on placards everywhere. To not react in certain ways was criminal conduct. DO YOU GET THAT, TORMENTED, TO NOT RETURN THE SALUTE WAS A CRIMINAL ACT IN VARIOUS CIRCUMSTANCES. There were monthly parades NOT caused by spontanious love, but orchestrated from soup to nuts. There was no Supreme Court to overtun his actions. There was no minority party waiting in the wings.

If Bush had Hitler's powers, his dumbass Social Security plan would now be the law of the land.



Hitler was a very intelligent and charismatic who convinced his people that his program would truly end poverty, corruption, and create a better society.

HA! Idiot! "convinced his people". He had Brown Shirts that beat up his opposition during his early years. He as an electiric speaker speaking to a bankrupt people who had just lost a war and had a hated government.

None of this is Bush's lot.

Everything else you wrote was a pile of crap. You need help. Go to school. Eeesh.
:lol: :lol:

You take a whole post to rip apart a bunch of stuff to show me.

I actually quoted someone, so I have said the stupidest fucking thing on the forum in a long time? You need help. Go to school. Eeesh.

That's funny, you've just made an ass of yourself.

[Columbia]

I know you made an ass of yourself, Tormented. But when haven't you?

You are a creep. Try not trolling around here and get a job, a life, a girlfriend (good luck there).

[Tormented by Treachery]

Uh oh, looks like it's time for somebody's nappie!

You fucked up, and now you resort to that. Please, do yourself a favor, be a man, and admit you did so. Are you American? If so, I am ashamed to be associated with you.

I'm a creep, I need a life, a job, and a girlfriend? To answer your attempted insults, I'm 16, have a life, have a job, and have a girlfriend. But thanks for the advice.

Now that we've dealth with the douche bag of the day, can we move on to the subject at hand?

[CrazyModerate]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 09:34 PM
I know you made an ass of yourself, Tormented. But when haven't you?

You are a creep. Try not trolling around here and get a job, a life, a girlfriend (good luck there).
I come to America for sloppy joe.

[La Comédie Noire]

I find it strange that there are so many escaped american mental patients on the opposing Ideology forms. Ignore this patriotic coo coo. He does not represent the more sensible people in america, he only represents the goverment. :P

[Iroquois Xavier]

Whats wrong with spongebob? anyways i didnt reply to you because i had better things to do than talk to a dumb yank with 1 solitary brain cell. who will never admit they are wrong and live in some dreamland where America can do no wrong!

oh yeah your attempts at humour are quite humorous. :rolleyes:

[Vladislav]

You are a creep. Try not trolling around here and get a job, a life, a girlfriend (good luck there).

oh shit...how did he know? :blush:

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2006, 03:47 PM
You're partially right Atlas. I'll keep waving the Stars and Stripes and then one day shove it up YOUR ass.

Please do not respond with absurd 5th grade comments.
Well covered in shit is fitting for that rag anyway. Fifth grade comments are all your posts warrant. Maybe one day little girl, you will grow up have children and learn that the system in the US is rigged against them and getting worse as the years go by. Keep supporting a system that is detrimental to yourself and everyone you know and love. You seem somewhat intelligent unfortunatly you are also smug and lack common sense.

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 10:53 AM


oh shit...how did he know? :blush:
Columbia is a 17 year old girl from California. Click on her profile and read the lyrics to the song or poem thier. Its sad, scary and cheesy all at the same time. Sounds like something John Ashcroft would sing.

Columbia did you write that? If not do you know who? Just curious had to chew on some razor blades for five minutes to get the memory out of my head :blink:

[ItalianCommie]

Columbia, although you're a female, your posts gave me the idea you looked like Homer Simpson.

[boosh logic]

It's funny, yeah, but I don't think making fun of Columbia is right. We may not agree with her views, but at least she is having (in general - I realise she has been stooping to abuse as well) an intelectual arguement about her views, instead of doing what pretty much every other right-winger who gets banned after two posts does, and just spam racist and homophobic ideas.

She contradicted herself a few times, and I don't agree with her ideas, but hell if every other member of this forum hasn't slipped up in their arguement at some time or another. I probably have even in this very post.

[Atlas Swallowed]

Why be soft on capitalists they are not soft on us. If it is because she is female, forget it, Ann Coulter is a female(maybe) and besides I believe in equality to all. Who is spamming homophobic comments on this thread? How do you discuss anything intellectually with a blind patriot, it like trying to teach an armless man to wipe his ass.

[Tormented by Treachery]

And after a post like


I know you made an ass of yourself, Tormented. But when haven't you?

You are a creep. Try not trolling around here and get a job, a life, a girlfriend (good luck there).

I think I deserve to say something back, haha.

But you make a good point. Let us carry on teaching the unenlightened (or better still, the irrational) about why people come to the United States (not America, America is two continents full of nations).

[boosh logic]

Atlas, it wasn't because she is female, but because it seemed the arguement was turning to her personal characteristics and life, which I found irrelevant to the actual topic.

But still I stand by the fact that most of the right-wingers just spam, whereas she is at least providing an intelectual (though jaded) arguement.

[Columbia]

boosh logic and Tormented,

Well, you can read the posts and see where somehow it became absurd. Merely because people disagree with me does not mean that I expect them to be jerks to me when making their comments.

Look, I know the majority of people don't agree with me. I am after all at RevolutionaryLeft.com. Also, understand that my issues have to do with the Union of the United States and the adhearence to its Constitution (which is why I believe that Pres. Bush may soon find himself in trouble.)

Tormented, I have no problem using the word "America" as a nickname for the United States of America. I know the term "United Statsian", invented by some on the far Left to mean the citizens of the USA. But I have plenty of friends who are Mexican, and they say all of the time "Americano", to represent a US citizen, even though they're aware they, too, are "Americans", in the general, continental sense of the term.

Perhaps one day they will mean the same thing, and that all current nations on the American continents will be part of the United States of America. (Tee hee.)


Some people have commented about the song, "Roll On Columbia". This is a very famous song about the expansion of the United States and is probably 100 years old. It celibrates manifest destiny of the U.S. As many of the commies here like to quote their heros of revolutionary dogma, you will allow me the privilege of quoting pro-American dogma.

Thank you for commenting that, though "misguided" I am at least, not babbling on about mere right wing what have you. I am, by the way, a moderate. but I know that means little to the people who are commies.

Yours,

Better Fed than Red,

Columbia

[Atlas Swallowed]

Were not all Communists(Anarchist/Socialist in my case). Bush is in no trouble electronic voting makes it so easy to rig elections now. US expansion "Manifest Destiny" how noble, tell that to the Indians. Better fed than red, tell that to the Cubans were alive before the Revolution. Africa seems to be doing well under capitalism :rolleyes: Columbia do you believe in "The divine rights of kings" also?

Boosh Logic I brought up the fact Columbia was female because several posters refered to her as him. Yes I got a bit mean but being nice all the time gets real fucking boring :)

[Columbia]

Have people really been referring to be as a boy? Yuckers.

I'm female. Spell it woman, not wyman.

Atlas, you are right about Cuba under what's-his-face v. under Castro. Under Castro the state of living has been far better for the common citizen than before his time.

Better Fed Than Red is a pun on Better Red Than Dead, or vice-versa. But it works for plenty of places where the Commies took over, or call it the People's Republic of X. Such as North Korea.

Yes, U.S. expansion was noble. The Indians did get the bad end of the deal. Most all nations have not treated their former occupiers of the land too well. It's a good thing they have the courts. (Then, we can ignore what they rule! Ha!) just playing. I don't know what to do about the Indians. maybe we can make it even for them by naming our pro sports teams after them.

Remember that I am AGAINST the divine right of kings, as I support the commentary put forth in the Fedealist Papers.

also, I have a thick skin, and you can tease me if it's in good fun.

[Atlas Swallowed]

North Korea is a dictatorship be a left or a right dictatorship does not matter it is detestable all the same. Manifest Desteny is just a silly as the Divine rights of kings in my humble opinion anyway. Thier is nothing we could do to compensate the Indians the damage is done, just because thing have been done repeatedly in the past does not make them right and doing it now is even worse. Humanbeings have to learn from past mistakes. We have to stop living like a bunch of rats seeing who can glut themselves on the most food and start taking care of each other instead of working against one another for the benefit of the few. Selfishness is self destructive regardless of what Ayn Rand might have said(do not know if you are familliar or a follower of Rand but I despise her philosophy).

The Federalist papers you should read Democracy for the few I can not recall the authors name but it has a different take on the Federalist papers then you are probably accustmed to. It is good you have a thick skin you always need that when discussing politics with people who are passionate about thier beliefs.

[ItalianCommie]

I wasn't teasing you, Columbia. I was serious.

Don't you realize how evil patriotism is? It's a perverse idea. Your country is the one of the most "god fearing"(believing in god) countries in the world, yet you are some of the most undisciplined christians ever. By your standards, Europe is morally much more "ahead" of you, applying things like the welfare state, being more charitable to the poor. Oh dear, hypocrisy I believe?

Your country is trying to police the world. You're not even able to police your cities! God Bless America, indeed! Let's sing Stars and Stripes forever! :lol:

You have no idea exactly how many people hate your guts out there for your military adventures around the world, your secret CIA air flights that violate countries's sovreignties, barging in to catch presumed terrorists. And those people are not a few dispersed brainwashed people. I see them every day, especially with the young generations. They absolutely despise american ignorance and carelessness. The next generation are certainly not going to be as diplomatic as the current one. :angry:

[JKP]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 10:57 AM
I don't know what to do about the Indians. maybe we can make it even for them by naming our pro sports teams after them.


The miltary names their helicopters after them; Cheyenne, Chinook, Apache, Commanche, Blackhawk, Kiowa, Iroquois etc.

However, that doesn't really make up for genocide.

[CubaSocialista]

Originally posted by The [email protected] 25 2006, 08:24 PM
http://www.scb.se/templates/tableOrChart____91833.asp

Here you will find the immigration rate to Sweden. When looking at these numbers please indicate, that Sweden is a small country with less than 10 million inhabitants.

Sweden is far from socialist, regrettably, but years of class struggle and social democrat rule have made the welfare system one of the most outstanding in the world.

The taxes are also among the highest in the world.

So saying that people only leave their homes "looking for freedom" is bullshit. With few exceptions they are looking for security, which they won't find in the USA.

I'm not saying Sweden is an ideal society, of course, since the capitalism is "still there", but it's pretty far from the american Lick-up-kick-down-survival-of-the-
fittest-Freedom kind of place.

The people who go to America "looking for freedom" to oppress workers are mostly from western capitalist countries where the laws still prohibite the cruelest, most open kind of capitalist bloodsucking.
Problem with Swedish Socialism is that often people immigrate there just to leech off the system, whilst not returning anything to society. Thus, authoritarian guidance is necessary to prevent such treacherous, slimy crap.

[Tormented by Treachery]

Merely because people disagree with me does not mean that I expect them to be jerks to me when making their comments.

Excuse me, but you accused me of a statement, ripped it to pieces, and then insulted me, all on something I had not said. I brought it to your attention, and you made a meaningless post with nothing but invective, completely irrelavent, and doing nothing to account for your blunder. Quit *****ing, you deserved it.


Look, I know the majority of people don't agree with me. I am after all at RevolutionaryLeft.com. Also, understand that my issues have to do with the Union of the United States and the adhearence to its Constitution (which is why I believe that Pres. Bush may soon find himself in trouble.)

The problem I have with your fanatic devotion to the Constitution is that to obsess with it as you do is to ignore that it was written by rich white land-owning men, for rich white land-owning men. To apply it to today's society with such few changes is ridiculous. Oh, did I mention it lays the foundation for the most powerful government which has mastered the slight-of-hand involved with exploited the masses without causing a revolution?


Tormented, I have no problem using the word "America" as a nickname for the United States of America.

America and American are connote different nationalities. While it is explicit to the world that an American is from the United States, to state that one is from America is ambiguous.


Perhaps one day they will mean the same thing, and that all current nations on the American continents will be part of the United States of America. (Tee hee.)

Is this imperialism support? Do you mean to say that you are in effect for the invasion of the whole western hemisphere for American (notice the usage explained above) capitalist gains? Wow. Crazier than I thought :blink:


Some people have commented about the song, "Roll On Columbia". This is a very famous song about the expansion of the United States and is probably 100 years old. It celibrates manifest destiny of the U.S. As many of the commies here like to quote their heros of revolutionary dogma, you will allow me the privilege of quoting pro-American dogma.

This is ludicrous. In my opinion, warrants a warning or something of the nature in itself, although it's not my decision. We quote 'heros of revolutionary dogma' who dictate that the masses should be freed from economic slavery, you quote those who would rape and plunder so that they could gain an advantage and enslave the masses (while killing the 'savages'). We're opposed to slavery here, hadn't you heard? Manifest Destiny is the rationalization of a ridiculous notion -- like the 'racial superiority' of the Aryan race.


Thank you for commenting that, though "misguided" I am at least, not babbling on about mere right wing what have you. I am, by the way, a moderate. but I know that means little to the people who are commies.

I have not used misguided, I can't account for others however. You are glorifying the continual murdering, lying, raping, plundering, and imperialism of American history. That's not moderate. Moderate in the United States (and I am a resident of the nation, so I know this too) means to basically oppose radical views such as abortion and gay marriage, while opposing imperialistic, racist, and 'morally wrong' actions such as the War in Iraq, anti-immigration (in some cases, anyway), and other right-wing convictions. This is called being an irrational right winger, even by the Green - Democrat - Moderate - Republican spectrum.

By the way, is 'commies' an intended insult? What do you connote?

If your way of being fed is what my only option is,

Better Dead than Fed,

TT

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by Tormented by [email protected] 2 2006, 11:44 PM



Perhaps one day they will mean the same thing, and that all current nations on the American continents will be part of the United States of America. (Tee hee.)

Is this imperialism support? Do you mean to say that you are in effect for the invasion of the whole western hemisphere for American (notice the usage explained above) capitalist gains? Wow. Crazier than I thought :blink:
I hope that was just a joke if it was not she might as well slap on some jackboots and a red,white, and blue swastika.

[Sentinel]

Originally posted by CubaSocialista
Problem with Swedish Socialism is that often people immigrate there just to leech off the system, whilst not returning anything to society. Thus, authoritarian guidance is necessary to prevent such treacherous, slimy crap.

First of all I'll say once again: Sweden is not a socialist country. It is a capitalist country with a social democrat (reformist) welfare system, called "Folkhemmet"(People's Home).

Sweden welcomes immigrants with open arms because the capitalists need to keep the unemployment rate high. In this way they keep the wages low. The social democrats are no longer socialists. They are servants of the ruling class. :angry:

The immigrants don't want to be unemployed and live of welfare. Many are refugees from war-haunted countries who wish nothing more than to be able to build themselves a new life in Sweden.

But unfortunately, many racist employers prefer ethnic swedes to do the more "respected" duties in society.

This is why we see ethnic persian doctors cleaning lavatories in Sweden. :angry:
Were you one of them, wouldn't you rather do nothing?

[Iroquois Xavier]

Its amazing that Columbias one brain cell can think of such drivel. she is such a culo.

[Columbia]

Atlas Swallowed:

Yes, I like Ayn Rand, and her views are mine in some circumstances. I believe the mind is a tool of the individual and one person's views should never have to bow to the collective. A society where there is majority rule with minority rights is my point of view.

I already wrote at another post how the American Revolution was not about democracy, but that that was/is an ongoing process, now in its 225th (or so) year.

It is agreed there is nothing we could do to compensate the American Indians for their loss.

Re: Thick Skin, remember, I'm at RevLeft.com. i could put you at Rightwinger.com and you'ld better have the same thick skin.


ItalianCommie:

I am not a Christian, and to steryotype American as a Christain country is a mistake. I know it is convienient for the Far Left to do that, but this is not 1925. There are no bibles in classrooms and courtrooms, Judeo-Christian displays must be part of an overall cultural context and not stand alones; a Jewish man got the majority of popular votes for President in 2000. I think Italy wins the battle of blending church and state more than the U.S.

Let's sing Stars and Stripes forever! Here, we agree.

I couldn't care less how many people world-wide like or dislike Americans. What will this current or next generation DO to us? I'm shaking in my boots.


JKP:

Your quote: The miltary names their helicopters after them (American Indians); Cheyenne, Chinook, Apache, Commanche, Blackhawk, Kiowa, Iroquois etc.

However, that doesn't really make up for genocide.

Agreed. But those are cool names.


CubaSocialista:

I probably disagree with your view of America. And this argument you have about Sweden is not on my radar. When I was in 6th grade, I had to do a report on a country, and chose, or was assigned (I can't remember) Sweden. I focused on a lot of the aspects of the nation, but not these things you write about with The Sentinal. Sorry.

Problem with Swedish Socialism is that often people immigrate there just to leech off the system, whilst not returning anything to society. Thus, authoritarian guidance is necessary to prevent such treacherous, slimy crap.

Atlas Swallowed and Tormented by Treachery,

You appear to be upset over my notion that the United States may, eventually, include more than 50 stars. Well, don't be such hypocrites. Many here at this board believe that the USA should unwind itself on several accounts and have less territory. I have read it here. There is commentary that the southern part of America become a nation for "black America"; that the southwest be given up to Chicanos for something called Aztlan; that New York become and international city, and perhaps San Francisco also; and that actual land be given to American Indians. All of this would result in a smaller USA. As many here can support such a thing, I think it's only fair that I be allowed to envision more stars on the flag representing a greater USA in size.

Expansion does not have to be through violence. People can petition to become a new state, even though they're currently part of Mexico or Canada, or one of the islands, like Cuba or Puerto Rico. Also, the US could offer to purchase large tracks of land that would increase our territory. These may, from your point of view, demonstrate imperialism on our part, but could also be the improvement of lives on other peoples' part.

I never argued that it should include jackboots and Red White and Blue Nazi uniforms. I beleive that, by its nature, it is the RevLeft that supports violence. I mean, you can't have a revolution without it.

Tormented by Treachery, here are my responses to your (important) comments:

C's Quote:
Look, I know the majority of people don't agree with me. I am after all at RevolutionaryLeft.com. Also, understand that my issues have to do with the Union of the United States and the adhearence to its Constitution (which is why I believe that Pres. Bush may soon find himself in trouble.)

TT's Comment:
The problem I have with your fanatic devotion to the Constitution is that to obsess with it as you do is to ignore that it was written by rich white land-owning men, for rich white land-owning men. To apply it to today's society with such few changes is ridiculous. Oh, did I mention it lays the foundation for the most powerful government which has mastered the slight-of-hand involved with exploited the masses without causing a revolution?

My New Response
I wrote an extensive comment at another place of how America has taken 225 years to become the democracy that it originally was. Here, TT, history is against you; the history of the United States. The Constitution has proven to be a VERY flexible tool for government operation. The 14th Amendment is one of the most amazing achievements itself, and Martin Luther King, Jr. would have failed at his battle against STATE AUTHORITY (it was individual state action he fought, not the federal government) without the 14th. It brought equal protection to many, and is used constantly. (It is, of course, not part of the original 1787 language, and was added aroung 1866.) My faith in the Constitution is very justified, and its success since 1789 has proven itself, while various left leaning revolutions have shown themselves to be elusive in their protection of THE PEOPLE.

It's not a secret document that prevents revolution anymore than any constitution states it is the only authority in the land (or the greatest), and that to go against it is subversion. All constitutions do and say that.

Remember that you, as a revolutionary socialist, never accept the rule of constitutionary law; it is your doom. And I, as a constitutional supporter, accept the rule of law as a given. We will never meet on this issue.






C's Quote:
Tormented, I have no problem using the word "America" as a nickname for the United States of America.

TT's Comment
America and American are connote different nationalities. While it is explicit to the world that an American is from the United States, to state that one is from America is ambiguous.

My New Response
You say "to-MAY-to", I say "to-MAH-to". This is not worth the argument.

C's Quote:
Some people have commented about the song, "Roll On Columbia". This is a very famous song about the expansion of the United States and is probably 100 years old. It celibrates manifest destiny of the U.S. As many of the commies here like to quote their heros of revolutionary dogma, you will allow me the privilege of quoting pro-American dogma.

TT's Comment
This is ludicrous. In my opinion, warrants a warning or something of the nature in itself, although it's not my decision. We quote 'heros of revolutionary dogma' who dictate that the masses should be freed from economic slavery, you quote those who would rape and plunder so that they could gain an advantage and enslave the masses (while killing the 'savages'). We're opposed to slavery here, hadn't you heard? Manifest Destiny is the rationalization of a ridiculous notion -- like the 'racial superiority' of the Aryan race.

My New Response:
OK, loosen your sphincter there, TT. Let's make this easier and remove those things we both agree with, and then we can see if I deserve a "warning point", which, if you can do the math, would cause me to be bounced from the board. Notice how you use the term, "economic slavery" and expect me to accept you are correct. But I'm a cappie, and of course don't accept that I support slavery of any kind. In fact, I believe capitalism is liberating. This is the basic argument between capitalism and socialism/Marxism. It is why this board exists. To expect me to accept that the USA economically enslaved anyone is for me to become a socialist. (I do not discuss actual slavery, which some of our states practiced, and I presume that you, like me, hated the concept and practice, though it happened and ended LONG before I could do anything about it.)

So let's get to the heart of the issue: Your disgust over my appreciation of the westward movement at the expense of the American Indians. Remember, the song doesn't celibrate the destruction of the Indians, or the "white race", or bringing harm to anyone. It celibrates America's move westward. It is a song one leans as a child (that's where I learned it) and only celibrates Manifest Destiny.

Your comment implies that I owe a duty to think a certain way. That I must embrace the notion that America's westward expansion was a "bad" thing. While I believe the harm done to the Indians was a bad thing, I support the expansion. I OBVIOUSLY SUPPORT THE EXPANSION!!! Hello! I'm HERE! In California! I'm alive BECAUSE of the expansion! You can't figure that out?

Now, let's address that issue of "duty" you apparently believe I "owe" to the first Americans who came over about 20,000 years ago:

My answer is, I DON'T!

I'm happy to be alive and living in California, and happy to see the Stars and Stripes over my school. I'm happy about not only California, but New Mexico as well, and Kansas, and Ohio and New York. Indians used to live in all of these lands. They still do, but they no longer enjoy the nations, tribes and systems of government they had have been destroyed, and they were killed wholesale in the 1800's especially. No one is happy about this, but nearly all Americans are happy of the result of the United States of America.

I mean, what did you expect?! Should all Americans wake up tomorrow and say to each other, "Damn! We got this nation through the destruction of other nations, so we should unwind America, give lands back to various Indian nations, and accept their authorities? I don't see it happening.

I don't get it? Why do you believe I deserve a "warning poing" for my support of the USA, since the moment you began reading my stuff, you learned I was a supporter of the USA.


C's Quote:
Thank you for commenting that, though "misguided" I am at least, not babbling on about mere right wing what have you. I am, by the way, a moderate. but I know that means little to the people who are commies.

TT's Comment:
I have not used misguided, I can't account for others however. You are glorifying the continual murdering, lying, raping, plundering, and imperialism of American history. That's not moderate. Moderate in the United States (and I am a resident of the nation, so I know this too) means to basically oppose radical views such as abortion and gay marriage, while opposing imperialistic, racist, and 'morally wrong' actions such as the War in Iraq, anti-immigration (in some cases, anyway), and other right-wing convictions. This is called being an irrational right winger, even by the Green - Democrat - Moderate - Republican spectrum.
By the way, is 'commies' an intended insult? What do you connote?

My New Response:
Man, I couldn't reside in a country that supported that! And I don't! But you apparently do. What will you do about it?!?

I support: Gay marriage and abortion and the Fourth Amendment, which I believe the violation of should cause President Bush his job.

I also support the removal of Saddam Hussain by the US Army. Good job, America!

I support the US troops leaving Iraq by April 2007, or earlier if the new government orders the US to do so.

I am against any division of the United States, reparations to any peoples do to former treatment that was legal at the time though immoral. I am against those Hawaiians who wish to have their kingdom back. I am against people entering the US illegally, and believe it should be a crime. It is currently only a civil action against the US.

P.S. Commie is not an insult. When this board was first described a few months ago, it was directed toward "cappies", and that was the word it used. It makes me laugh to think of it. Obviously if those at this board can refer to me as a cappie, I can refer to you as a commie.

Hope your day is a fun one. That's to everyone. I'm off to Vegas in two hours! Yeah! (I wonder if that city would survive a Red Takeover? It may be a bit capitalistic. ya think?!?)

[Atlas Swallowed]

Too bad Rands views are crap, I am a strong belever in individualism but not at the expense of everyone else. The collective? been watching Star Trek lately? Her philosophy is for those who need thier egos stroked and do not have the charector to be content with knowing you are the best or one of the best at what you do and strive to help others with your skills instead of worrying about collecting, wealth power and fame. We are all individuals, because someone is good at manipulating money and living off others labor(CEOs) does not mean they should live like royalty, have thier knee caps broken perhaps.

I have tried posting on Free Republic a few times, they are so afraid of dissent that in all cases have banned me and to top it off deleted my posts. Maybe I will try rightwing.com when I am in the mood to piss someone off. Bush and his regime are such easy targets it should not be too hard.

I never suggested the US become smaller except I think I said once I wish the US would give Texas back to Mexico, they can have Orange county California back also :) We are individuals on this board not Borg like collective. I speak for myself what someone else says does not make me a hypocrite. The ideas you stated that someone said about seperating states into racial groups I find to be totally idiotic.

If you do believe the US should one day take over the rest of the hemisphere then it too bad you can not travel back in time you would have made a great Nazi. The superman avatar is suitable your world view is kind of cartoonish. Are you a fan of Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity or any other of the right wing talking heads?

[broken]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 07:03 PM
Yes, U.S. expansion was noble. The Indians did get the bad end of the deal. Most all nations have not treated their former occupiers of the land too well. It's a good thing they have the courts. (Then, we can ignore what they rule! Ha!) just playing. I don't know what to do about the Indians. maybe we can make it even for them by naming our pro sports teams after them.

Remember that I am AGAINST the divine right of kings, as I support the commentary put forth in the Fedealist Papers.


Noble? Perhaps you mean bloody. Who cares what "most all nations" do. This justifies inhumanity? What does that even mean? It's irrelevant, why even bring it up? Yay for courts, maybe there's some unused scrubland in South Dakota that we could relegate even more native Americans to, as an encore we can carve our president's faces into their sacred mountains, oh wait, we already did that. And I am still waitin' for a sports team called the Honkies. ;)

I doubt you had to point out your opposition to divine right. If it were 1625, maybe, but not now.

[Columbia]

Atlas Swallowed wrote:

Too bad Rands views are crap, I am a strong belever in individualism but not at the expense of everyone else. The collective? been watching Star Trek lately? Her philosophy is for those who need thier egos stroked and do not have the charector to be content with knowing you are the best or one of the best at what you do and strive to help others with your skills instead of worrying about collecting, wealth power and fame. We are all individuals, because someone is good at manipulating money and living off others labor(CEOs) does not mean they should live like royalty, have thier knee caps broken perhaps.


My response:

Atlas, I do not understand all of what you write, because you allude to many things I don't concern myself with. In this regard, of Ayn Rand, I can only say that the part of her writings I agree upon are those which deal with the notion that the human being is an individual, and must make his or her own decisions concerning the vast majority of matters.

If one becomes a doctor, does he owe a duty to the world at all times? Is his life to be commanded by the collective and an object of its orders? At all times? Of course, every person, a doctor included, has a moral code, and that makes him or her available as he or she chooses. However, to be a slave to the state at all times is what Rand warned about. And here I side with her. Communism will always be her enemy, because it will (or has to this point in history, in the name of Communism) only created societies which turn people into slaves. Again, here she and I agree. But this obsession people have of her is beyond me. She is a near cult figure to some, and I should not be included in the number. Based on your name, it's you who have this interest in her far more than I.


Atlas Swallowed wrote:

I have tried posting on Free Republic a few times, they are so afraid of dissent that in all cases have banned me and to top it off deleted my posts. Maybe I will try rightwing.com when I am in the mood to piss someone off. Bush and his regime are such easy targets it should not be too hard.


My response:

Again, you allude to matters of which I am not aware.


Atlas Swallowed wrote:

I never suggested the US become smaller except I think I said once I wish the US would give Texas back to Mexico, they can have Orange county California back also We are individuals on this board not Borg like collective. I speak for myself what someone else says does not make me a hypocrite. The ideas you stated that someone said about seperating states into racial groups I find to be totally idiotic.

My Response:

I, of course, agree with the last. But as I wrote, such comments have been made by some members of the radical Left, and here on this board.


Atlas swallowed:

If you do believe the US should one day take over the rest of the hemisphere then it too bad you can not travel back in time you would have made a great Nazi. The superman avatar is suitable your world view is kind of cartoonish. Are you a fan of Coulter, Limbaugh, Hannity or any other of the right wing talking heads?

My response:

Atlas, what I wrote was this:
Expansion does not have to be through violence. People can petition to become a new state, even though they're currently part of Mexico or Canada, or one of the islands, like Cuba or Puerto Rico. Also, the US could offer to purchase large tracks of land that would increase our territory. These may, from your point of view, demonstrate imperialism on our part, but could also be the improvement of lives on other peoples' part.

I only support the peaceful acquisition of new territories, and the right of States who are not currently states within the United States, to petition to be so. While you may not have the vision to see this happen, or believe such would be a non-occurence, than we have no issue. But is such occurs, then you have to decide if, let us say, Puerto Rico has the right to make such a petition.



Broken wrote (concerning my comments regarding U.S. expansion):

Noble? Perhaps you mean bloody. Who cares what "most all nations" do. This justifies inhumanity? What does that even mean? It's irrelevant, why even bring it up? Yay for courts, maybe there's some unused scrubland in South Dakota that we could relegate even more native Americans to, as an encore we can carve our president's faces into their sacred mountains, oh wait, we already did that. And I am still waitin' for a sports team called the Honkies.
I doubt you had to point out your opposition to divine right. If it were 1625, maybe, but not now.


My response:

Well, there really is no other way to determine good or bad but by comparison. In the scheme of things, we know that men and women are capable of all sorts of mischief. That includes ALL peoples, including various groups who arrived in America before the Europeans. The Europeans themselves, the Pre-Columbian Americans, Asia, Africa and the whole world.

I guess what I'm asking about broken is how to unwind all of it. YOU CAN'T! Unless you unwind the world. (Unwind is the legal act of reversing and "unestablishing" a business. It means more than merely ending it, because it implies that what exists will be redistributed.)

I have no where else to go but to use, "most all nations", because any remedy or proposal you make, must be applied to all of the world.

Mt. Rushmore is the coolest. I got to see it. It's beautiful. Of course, what's sacred to one group isn't sacred to another group. Such is the way of the world. I'm not trying to be mean for its own sake, but merely pointing out that when the world population gets in their cars and drives everywhere they're making things "unsacred" for someone's view of things somewhere.

Let's say I own a home. Some Indians would laugh at the concept, because how can a being of the Earth OWN some of the Earth. It's absurd.

You know of course that one has to file an EPA report if they indend to do something which would, by statute, harm the environment. Should we adopt something similar for destruction to the "secredness" of something? How about the First Amendment?

What if I, and many other Americans call Mt. Rushmore sacred? Are we less worthy of such a declaration? What if we call it a shrine? What if we make it a Shrine of Democracy? Oh, wait. We already did that?

And your honkie metaphore fails. More accurate would be to use the Notre Dame Fighting Irish. There's the use of a group of Europeans, and without their "premission" and making them look like a stereotype. This is a problem that's being dealt with by many agreements by the governing agencies of the NCAA and NFL (for example). You couldn't deal with this by a government issue, perhaps, due to the First Amendment and the lack of a federal issue in some of the matters.

One of the greatest problems the American Indian faces (like most issues concerning race) is what happens to one who is the product of more than one group? Is there a political attachment that automatically goes along with being an American Indian? What about the issue of an Indian and an Italian-American? An Indian and a Swede visiting America? If such a child recites the Plege to the Flag, are they doing something "wrong"?

I don't have the answer to all of this, merely make the observation. Though, as you can read by my comments, the more who declare themselves to be proud American citizens, the happier my political views are served.

[norwegian commie]

in the cold war bla bla bla non atacc agreement. We made this promise, we should live up to us. I do not know of any people who "laugh" at us for not invading Cuba. Maybe some Cuban nationals living in Miami, but not the vast majority of Americans.


Hahaha lol :lol: :lol: :lol:
America has tried countless times to assasinate Castro.
The CIA have terrorised Cuba since the revolution.
Exploding boats, killing top-men in the govurment.

Have you heard about Operation Northwood?
Check Wipekedia its really interesting.
Fucking terrorist USA.

There is no freedom in capitalism, it is slavery!

[Columbia]

NOBODY CARES ABOUT CUBA!!!

THANK GOD FOR CHINA, THE FORMER USSR, AND EAST GERMANY. THEY GOT RID OF CAPITALSIM AND ENDED UP WITH PRISON COLONIES FOR COUNTRIES.

ARE YOU FOR REAL!?!

[loveme4whoiam]

NOBODY CARES ABOUT CUBA!!!

Apart from the Cubans themselves, of course. And Mr Bush and co. seem to have an unhealthy fixation with the poor island.

[Tormented by Treachery]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 08:36 PM
NOBODY CARES ABOUT CUBA!!!

THANK GOD FOR CHINA, THE FORMER USSR, AND EAST GERMANY. THEY GOT RID OF CAPITALSIM AND ENDED UP WITH PRISON COLONIES FOR COUNTRIES.

ARE YOU FOR REAL!?!
Ever heard of trolling?

How about taking a Quaalude? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methaqualone)

[Sentinel]

NOBODY CARES ABOUT CUBA!!!

THANK GOD FOR CHINA, THE FORMER USSR, AND EAST GERMANY. THEY GOT RID OF CAPITALSIM AND ENDED UP WITH PRISON COLONIES FOR COUNTRIES.

ARE YOU FOR REAL!?!

Columbia, regardless the fact that we disagree on absolutely everything, and I've always considered you mighty ignorant, I was beginning to respect you as an at least somewhat serious debater.

Not anymore. What is this?? Are you posting under the influence or something?
If you want to stress something, use the bolding option! Nobody wants to read entire posts in caps.

[RNK]

Just one thing.

Quote from Columbia's Sig:

"The flames kindled on the Fourth of July, 1776, have spread over too much of the globe to be extinguished by the feeble engines of despotism; on the contrary, they will consume these engines and all who work them." --Thomas Jefferson

To which I reply:

"..this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other. " Benjamin Franklin, On The Constitution (1787)

The flames were not extinguished by despotism; they have become it.

[Commie Girl]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 02:36 PM
NOBODY CARES ABOUT CUBA!!!

THANK GOD FOR CHINA, THE FORMER USSR, AND EAST GERMANY. THEY GOT RID OF CAPITALSIM AND ENDED UP WITH PRISON COLONIES FOR COUNTRIES.

ARE YOU FOR REAL!?!
:o I care alot about Cuba.

[Iroquois Xavier]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 08:36 PM
NOBODY CARES ABOUT CUBA!!!

THANK GOD FOR CHINA, THE FORMER USSR, AND EAST GERMANY. THEY GOT RID OF CAPITALSIM AND ENDED UP WITH PRISON COLONIES FOR COUNTRIES.

ARE YOU FOR REAL!?!
The troubles of an ignorant mind. :rolleyes:

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2006, 08:36 PM
NOBODY CARES ABOUT CUBA!!!

THANK GOD FOR CHINA, THE FORMER USSR, AND EAST GERMANY. THEY GOT RID OF CAPITALSIM AND ENDED UP WITH PRISON COLONIES FOR COUNTRIES.

ARE YOU FOR REAL!?!
Most of us on this board care about Cuba that is who.

What country has the highest prison population in the world?

The USA :angry:

You have got to stop sniffing glue the damage it is doing to your brain is becoming obvious. Please get help before it is too late.

[Columbia]

Atlas,

I presume your non-discussion of my serious comments about what you wrote is an agreement with me over those issues.

Thank you.

[SocialistGenius]

Originally posted by CrazyModerate+Jan 26 2006, 05:06 AM--> (CrazyModerate @ Jan 26 2006, 05:06 AM)
The [email protected] 25 2006, 08:24 PM
http://www.scb.se/templates/tableOrChart____91833.asp

Here you will find the immigration rate to Sweden. When looking at these numbers please indicate, that Sweden is a small country with less than 10 million inhabitants.

Sweden is far from socialist, regrettably, but years of class struggle and social democrat rule have made the welfare system one of the most outstanding in the world.

The taxes are also among the highest in the world.

So saying that people only leave their homes "looking for freedom" is bullshit. With few exceptions they are looking for security, which they won't find in the USA.

I'm not saying Sweden is an ideal society, of course, since the capitalism is "still there", but it's pretty far from the american Lick-up-kick-down-survival-of-the-
fittest-Freedom kind of place.

The people who go to America "looking for freedom" to oppress workers are mostly from western capitalist countries where the laws still prohibite the cruelest, most open kind of capitalist bloodsucking.
Sweden is better for workers than almost any nation in the history of the world. Social Democracy is the closest thing to marxism.

Getting that off my chest, I would like to say, most immigrants to the USA come for the wealth. If they weren't free in their home countries they wouldn't be able to get to the States. [/b]
CrazyModerate,
Comrade, I am also a member of Democratic Socialists of America. I noticed you are too, judging by your avatar. I haven't seen to many others on here. I was wondering how much support there is for DSA here?

[Iroquois Xavier]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 02:47 PM
Atlas,

I presume your non-discussion of my serious comments about what you wrote is an agreement with me over those issues.

Thank you.
That glue must be extra strong shit! :rolleyes:

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 02:47 PM
Atlas,

I presume your non-discussion of my serious comments about what you wrote is an agreement with me over those issues.

Thank you.
No not agreement. It seems you lost track of the conversation and did not know what I was refering too. For example: you said (not quoting) of course I have thick skin I post on Rev left you should try posting on right wing.com or something along those lines.
I responded by telling you how I have posted on Free republic. com and the result of it. Then you posted, something along the lines of what does this have to do with anything.
Not a big deal the conversation just lost track for some reason.

As for South American countries willingly becoming a part of the US. Not going to happen, do you think they are stupid and do not know who has been exploiting them and subjecting them to right wing dictatorships?

[Iroquois Xavier]

well this thread is pretty dead.

[Oh-Dae-Su]

Lazar pointed out that Afghanistan, Hong Kong, Kuwait, Singapore, and Somalia(?) have higher migration than us.

First of all Afghanistan, is there any restrictions in the border between Afghanistan and probably any of its neighboring countries?!!! please, also these are probably people escaping persecution in maybe Pakistan's northern regions because of the "crackdown" on talibani, also persecution of Sunnis in Iran, since Afghanistan is Sunni. Plus Afghanistan is practically an American colony right now, so what do you think is better for these mountain people?expect to see a plane that is going to America and jump on it? or just cross the border to an American sponsered country? ( i said mountain people because they live in the Hindu Kush , do some research, just saying this little disclaimer, because i bet some freak anarchist communist is going to come, and be like "OHH YOU SAID THE MOUNTAIN PEOPLE! GET HIM MOD!BAN HIM!")

Hong Kong, do i need to say more? who do you think are better off? Mainland China or Hong Kong, i mean thats just absurd, you cite the most populated country in the damn world, the influx of chinese to Hong Kong is amazing, i mean HELLO!! Hong Kong is now part of China

Kuwait, thank you for citing yet another American colony, Kuwait is probably the best country in the middle east, they have the highest standard of living, and more wealth than anybody in the middle east, although im not sure about the UAE, so appart from refugees.

Singapore, yet again you keep citing the best countries in the worst areas, Singapore has the most amazing and best economy of all of South East Asia, do i need to say more?

you might as well have cited, South Africa!!! or Australia!!!

the fact is that you are citing facts from 2005!! after 9/11, with the Patriot Act in full enforcement, so this is irrelevant information.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

This thread will eat your brains!

[Oh-Dae-Su]

:rolleyes: UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!! watch out now!! lmao

[KC]

Oh-Dae-Su, you seem to have missed the point of my post. Columbia said this:


Originally posted by Columbia
On another thread, I made the comment:
You'd have to ask the tens of millions of people who immigrated to America why they did it.

I received the response:
I wouldn't say (in most cases) it's "freedom" they emigrate for, rather a higher standard of living. For instance I've heard American prisons are considered a step up by some immigrants.


These comments have been made before and have received the same, through away comment, that it's all about economics, and not about freedom.

Well, now it's time for those who believe this to show me some evidence of this...

So stop giving me your opinion, Lefties, show me the poll that says people immigrate here for cash, and could give a rat's ass about "freedom". Show me anything relating to this notion.


My post was in response to this. Your attempt to debunk my statistics hasn't worked, as you have looked at it from an economic perspective, and this is exactly what I was arguing. I was pointing out that more people immigrate to these countries with less "freedom" than the United States. You have actually supported my argument by stating the economic benefits of these countries.

[CCCPneubauten]

If people are coming for freedom why do groups like the Minutemen send them back and deny them 'American" freedom? They have done it with credible immigrants to the US, as in legal ones.

If we wanted everyone to enjoy this freedom why do we keep making it harder to come into this country and why do we harass the ones that do?

[KC]

If people are coming for freedom why do groups like the Minutemen send them back and deny them 'American" freedom? They have done it with credible immigrants to the US, as in legal ones.

If we wanted everyone to enjoy this freedom why do we keep making it harder to come into this country and why do we harass the ones that do?


Because they're stealing our jobs!!! :lol:

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

People come to America to look for all the shit that's been stolen from their countries over the last 200 years.