Would God forgive Lenin?

[bezdomni]

Would God Forgive Lenin? (http://www.salon.com/travel/feature/1999/12/01/russia/index.html?CP=YAH&DN=110)

I was searching for Russian news and this came up. Page two is pretty funny when the old woman starts talking about how spelling out Lenin with matches can be re-arranged to spell 666. Therefore, Lenin is the devil.

Certainly nobody is stupid enough to actually believe that this "proves" that Lenin was the devil?

[Comrade J]

Of course God would forgive Lenin, he forgives every fucker who ever walked. The guy has no morals. Good job he doesn't exist.
Anyway, Lenin doesn't need 'forgiving' for anything, except for his failure to destroy all the churches outside of Russia. Well, least the man tried.

[Sentinel]

Certainly nobody is stupid enough to actually believe that this "proves" that Lenin was the devil?

Don't be so sure. If someone believes in the devil in first place, he/she has already rejected logic, and can believe in the strangest of things..

The devil is for the christians a word for everything opposed to their superstition.
So if we consider the fact that Lenin was an atheist communist, I guess we could say
he really was the devil. And so am I! :D


Originally posted by "Vera" in "Would God forgive Lenin"
The revolutionaries were the destroyers of our faith, and for that reason, of our nation. They deserve only hell."

The christians truly love us! :lol:

I'm really happy they feel that way, makes it easier to hate their reactionary asses.

[Zingu]

This sounds like a children's scary story...


"When we were children we discovered that if we took matches and arranged them to spell Lenin, the same number of matches could be rearranged to make 666." She demonstrated this to me with matches from the altar. "666 is Lenin, it is Lenin's sign, the sign of the Devil. We knew even then that Lenin was Satan. But we kept silent. We were afraid. God will forgive those who grow up today in ignorance. But he will never forgive Lenin and those who helped him, because they were educated in God and chose to destroy the church. Lenin had our priests killed, he turned our cathedrals into barns and our monasteries into prisons, or he razed them. The revolutionaries were the destroyers of our faith, and for that reason, of our nation. They deserve only hell."

........medieval Mongol horsemen tearing through towns, slashing and raping and pillaging, setting fire to churches and looting monasteries; centuries of serfdom; savage peasant uprisings that lasted for years and soaked the earth in blood; Cossack pogroms carried out for the glory of Mother Russia; shackled prisoners marched thousands of miles into Siberia; gulag inmates mining uranium and dying when their lungs filled with radioactive dust; Ivan the Terrible and his orgies of bloodletting followed by bouts of forehead-banging contrition at the altar; Stalin and his ruthless extermination of millions; the KGB and class war and revolution ...

So much history in Russia was a chronology of barbarity and slaughter and righteous zeal elevated to the level of crusade and national myth. Until this decade, Russians had lived for myth -- for Orthodoxy, for the triumph of communism, for the sanctity of the Motherland, for ideologies and czars, for tyrants and holy madmen. Now, they were lost. I suddenly understood the fatigue on the faces of the crowds with which I had walked in town: What was there left to believe in?

:o :lol: :huh:


Lets try posting this on Christian forums and see how seriously they take this.

[Sentinel]

Yes, it is kind of childish and most of them propably wouldn't take it seriously..
But I really don't see how it differs from their "holy book" if we start speaking logic. :)

And the common opinion amongst them most certaintly is that communism is evil, a trick by the "devil" to distance our "undying souls" from "God".

[Clarksist]

God damn.

Shit like this makes me angry.

On one hand, the USSR was not near utopia.

On the other, churches are material buildings! Early christians seemed to get along fine without churches.

I mean fucken christ, who gives a shit if the same amount of matches can spell out Lenin's name? "Lenin" was a moniker chosen later, its based off the name of a river in Russia.

I guess he checked the amount of matches it took to spell it first, just to be sure. I mean, that it such a great way of telling people your Satan.

[patrick]

Originally posted by The Sentinel+Jan 25 2006, 12:09 AM--> (The Sentinel @ Jan 25 2006, 12:09 AM)
Certainly nobody is stupid enough to actually believe that this "proves" that Lenin was the devil?

Don't be so sure. If someone believes in the devil in first place, he/she has already rejected logic, and can believe in the strangest of things..

The devil is for the christians a word for everything opposed to their superstition.
So if we consider the fact that Lenin was an atheist communist, I guess we could say
he really was the devil. And so am I! :D


"Vera" in "Would God forgive Lenin"
The revolutionaries were the destroyers of our faith, and for that reason, of our nation. They deserve only hell."

The christians truly love us! :lol:

I'm really happy they feel that way, makes it easier to hate their reactionary asses. [/b]
The devil is for christians a word everything opposed to their 'superstition'?

And from which reliable source did you get that from. Because it is certainly not the case.
Anyway I think a lot of you on here make a lot of sense and that does not make me hate you... just because Im a christian and attend church every week.
God does not condemn anyone willing to be forgiven and even for someone like Lenin if you think that. Whether you believe in God or not, that is another thing

[voice of the voiceless]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 24 2006, 05:18 PM
Of course God would forgive Lenin, he forgives every fucker who ever walked. The guy has no morals. Good job he doesn't exist.
Anyway, Lenin doesn't need 'forgiving' for anything, except for his failure to destroy all the churches outside of Russia. Well, least the man tried.
Lenin never tried to abolish religion, just to remove power from rich priests and the like

[patrick]

Originally posted by voice of the voiceless+Jan 25 2006, 01:39 PM--> (voice of the voiceless @ Jan 25 2006, 01:39 PM)
Comrade [email protected] 24 2006, 05:18 PM
Of course God would forgive Lenin, he forgives every fucker who ever walked. The guy has no morals. Good job he doesn't exist.
Anyway, Lenin doesn't need 'forgiving' for anything, except for his failure to destroy all the churches outside of Russia. Well, least the man tried.
Lenin never tried to abolish religion, just to remove power from rich priests and the like[/b]
exactly ;) Lenin did not abolish religion or destroy churches entirely.. just removed the richer higher bourgeoise priests and ministers alike.
But Stalin tried to wipe them out entirely. And then the hypocrit he was used them as a motivator for his civilians to rally for war against the German invasion <_<
Then after he&#39;d succesfully repelled Hitler and blitzkrieg Stalingrad everything.. the churches and mosques were put back to the torch and destroyed. And the oppressed people that they were then had nowhere to confide seeing as the russian orthodox and christian churches were there only underlying hope.
What a hypocrit.
(sorry im getting way off topic)

[Sentinel]

The devil is for christians a word everything opposed to their &#39;superstition&#39;?

And from which reliable source did you get that from. Because it is certainly not the case.

Well, if you ask Ratzinger in Rome, communism sure is an evil thing and wrong. And isn&#39;t the "devil" the igniter of "evil thoughts" in man?

I have seen on this very forum that there are christians who don&#39;t hate communism and even think they are communists. :lol:

Which they obviously can&#39;t be since they reject materialism. :rolleyes:

The messages and intentions of communism and christianity are opposed and don&#39;t mix, and this goes for any religion.

But since we&#39;re speaking of cristianity, both the Greek and the Roman catholic churches have been struggling against communism from the very beginning.
So it could perhaps be referred to as "the common opinion."


God does not condemn anyone willing to be forgiven

Yeah, if we "understand our mistakes" and "regret our sins" we will be forgiven.
This means: if we join christianity and abandon our sinful ways of life, disobeying authorities, being gay or something even more incompatible to christian
faith.

But what happens otherwise: Into the oven&#33; :angry:


Whether you believe in God or not, that is another thing

According to which branch of christianity can you reject and not believe in "god", do "anything you please" and "live in sin" to your death, and still get to paradise? Can you please name that one.

[Goatse]

Lenin is Satan.

Jesus is Hitler. (http://www.sprengmeister.org/nsfw/jesusishitler/index.htm)

[patrick]

How can communism be wrong? That depends on the thinker. Actually if you ask the recently deceased Karol Wojtyla about communism then he would not rebuke it but claim its been misinterpreted. He actually wrote a few works in his study days of his extensive studies in Marxism. He writes about "communism in its historical dimension" , "The Issue Of revolution" and "Marxisms ethic of class struggle" in a book he wrote called Catholic Social Ethics, a very interesting read.
Oh and your considering me a communist? Anything but. Although Im interested in a socialist uprising or revolution of sort in my country(unfortunatley i dont see it happening). And i strongly oppose capitalist ideas and thinking but that does not make me communist. Its plainly obvious religion and politics at all dont mix let alone communism.
What youve said about the churches opposing "communism".. well there just opposing and trying to remove a plainly oppressing and sadistic ideology which was slaughtering millions in the USSR china and later cambodia. Communism has never existed in its purest form that of which marx and engels wrote on.
Removing religion in countries where its plainly obvious its a strong and uniting part of the people is usually a bad mistake. So thats maybe why they "struggled" against it.
Regarding your comment on Gods forgiveness.. no that doesnt mean joining. Gods willing to forgive anyone.. anyone that means anyone willing to repent for their sins and mistakes in life. Whether you be christian, jew, buddhist, atheist, agnostic, islamic, satanist. And by that comment are you meaning you would never want to repent or say sorry for something youve done wrong? :blink:
Oh and being gay? Why must you abuse a word which "initially" meant happy or the opposite to what its portrayed as now.. theres nothing wrong with being homosexual but it is unnatural, homosexuals cannot reproduce naturally. How will the species go on? It cant under homosexuals. But Im not insulting them I respect them they deserve as much a go as any human being.
"Whether you believe in god or not" that comment I said you misunderstood i meant towards anyone not just christian. And if you as you said were like that you could still reach "paradise".

[Sentinel]

He writes about "communism in its historical dimension" , "The Issue Of revolution" and "Marxisms ethic of class struggle" in a book he wrote called Catholic Social Ethics, a very interesting read.

While I have very little respect for Wojtyla regarding his lifework, including participation in the spreading of the HI-virus by condemning the use of condoms and opposing the communist parties of eastern europe (now I said what I meant from the beginning), among other things, I&#39;ll look for the book. It does sound interesting. "Know your enemy." :)


Oh and your considering me a communist? Anything but.

No, I was referring to other people. I see you are restricted..


Its plainly obvious religion and politics at all dont mix let alone communism.

Many rightwingers, though, use religion in their attempt to control the working class.
With communism it doesn&#39;t mix because of our materialist way of thinking.


well there just opposing and trying to remove a plainly oppressing and sadistic ideology which was slaughtering millions in the USSR china

Bullshit. The numbers are manipulated and exaggerated. People who died of famine
in china under Mao, for example, are counted as "slaughtered by communists."

Yet, in capitalist India just next door, much more people have starved to death since that period. But are they counted as "slaughtered by capitalism" ...nope.


and later cambodia.

Correct. Pol Pot was a first class idiot.


Communism has never existed in its purest form that of which marx and engels wrote on.

This is of course true. By "communism" I meant the communist parties of the socialist bloc. Sorry for putting it wrong.

And while they weren&#39;t perfect in any way, much has become worse for the proletariat and different minorities of east europe since their fall.


Regarding your comment on Gods forgiveness.. no that doesnt mean joining. Gods willing to forgive anyone.. anyone that means anyone willing to repent for their sins and mistakes in life. Whether you be christian, jew, buddhist, atheist, agnostic, islamic, satanist.

Here we come to the interesting stuff, why we communists never can be religious.
All religions I&#39;m familiar with request either obedience to authorities,
or "turning away" from the material world of their followers. This is what Karl Marx
meant when he referred to religion as the opiate for the masses.

Not doing that is committing a "sin" or a "mistake". We on the other hand want the
proletariat to rebel against authorities and focus on making this one material world
optimal for everyone to live in.

And almost all religions indeed require joining and accepting their way of life. Otherwise you&#39;re a "heretic" and will "burn in hell", or won&#39;t reach nirvana, or whatever.


And by that comment are you meaning you would never want to repent or say sorry for something youve done wrong?

Of course not. I just think it serves a better purpose to say sorry to the actual person
I offended, if I did something wrong, not an imaginary friend. But most of the things
religions consider wrong, I don&#39;t.


theres nothing wrong with being homosexual but it is unnatural, homosexuals cannot reproduce naturally. How will the species go on? It cant under homosexuals.

Who says everyone must reproduce?

Homosexuals are just a little part of mankind, not a "threat" to the survival of mankind. We are going to have a huge overpopulation on the planet in the future.

Homosexuals aren&#39;t a sect trying to take over the world and make everyone homosexual. It&#39;s not a religion in other words. You need not worry. :lol:


And if you as you said were like that you could still reach "paradise".

Too bad it doesn&#39;t exist then.. :(

[patrick]

Too bad it doesn&#39;t exist then.. :(

Paradise? Well yeah not in this world anyway.

[chaval]

im pretty sure you could find the number 666 in lots of names if you tried to. i could come up with lots of numbers for lenin&#39;s name, but if im looking for a specific number i bet i could find that one too.