Have we let Che be used?

[Comrade Ben]

Che Guevara, the peoples champion, has fallen prey to a demon. The demon of the Western media. This demon has surronded, and suppresed our Comandante's ideals and power. The man that once stood against oppression, against tyrany, against all the injustices of the world, has been subjegated to dangling from the middle Americans keychain, been degraded to starring at all of the true followers from posters, t-shirts, earings, socks, clocks, hats and an infinite amount of other merchandise. Merchandise. The Capitalists little aide. The means by which the oppressor keeps control over all of the righteous. Have we let this happen? Have we given up our champion to the Western's quasi-communists? The ones who have never read Marx, but still wears the Hammer and Sickle on their shirt, because they believe it hides a great secret of power, authority, and dominance. Somehow, have we, the true believers, given his mind away? The media, and the Capitalists use Ernesto to sell their ideals. This goes directly against Che's "Che’s disdain for material comfort and everyday desires.”1 All of us know that material objects are not to be coveted, Che taught that to us many, many times over. But, how can we tell the others? They watch him because he is "cool" and "wicked", but why? Why does he speak to them as such an icon, without having any ideals to pin to him in their form? He reminds them of a forgotten time, a time of defiance, when the Government could be wrong, could be questioned, and he was one to do it, one to stand up against the tyrants. In this time of darkness in the United States, no wonder people look to a bygone era for their leader. So, who cares if his ideals are smugged, or even fo0rgotten, as long as the consumers are happy? Che would not approve of his image powering the corporate drive. Stop the purchase of Che memorbilia. It funds the oppressors. "The powerful of the earth should take heed: deep inside that T shirt where we have tried to trap him, the eyes of Che Guevara are still burning with impatience. "1




1From Time 100 Article, by Ariel Dorfman

[Abood]

u have a point, but i believe that u've taken it too far. some of those people who do wear his tshirts and buy his merchandise actually do believe in his theories and his work - me for an example. i am new to the left, and havent read much about him, except a very summarized biography of him, but i know what his intentions and beliefs were and i support him. i buy his merchandise for 2 reasons. 1. to show off my support to Communism and basically make a statement that "communism is not dead" ; 2. to try to advocate people into communism, hence my nickname Socialist Advocate.
but yeh, many people dont care about what he did and buy his merchandise.. my friend is an example of that. those people irritate me. but i think that they use it as a sign of "rebellion" as he was ,more or less, a rebel. but atleast a rebel with a cause.
but i do not believe in having "che" socks - that is soo degrading.


The ones who have never read Marx, but still wears the Hammer and Sickle on their shirt, because they believe it hides a great secret of power, authority, and dominance.
well, atleast they know it's the right path to take. its our job to teach them more about it.
personally, i look at it as propaganda. Communist propaganda and the only thing i dont like about it is that people who don't know what the hell he did or dont support him and know hardly anything about him buy that merchandise.

[Wanted Man]

I have no objection to comrades expressing themselves by owning items with Che's face on it. It sure as hell is a lot more progressive than a shirt with some random brand name on it. And buying a shirt with nothing on it usually still comes from the exploited third world.


Stop the purchase of Che memorbilia.
I will do no such thing. When you choose to express yourself through your clothing, you do it in either a progressive or a conservative(plain clothes, brand clothes)/reactionary(nazist symbols) manner. Also, you have completely ignored the possibility of communist parties promoting themselves by selling items with revolutionary symbols on them.

[Abood]

I agree, comrade Matthijs.
infact, i got interested into communism because of seeing Che's face all over. i used to think hes bob marley, for some reason :lol: oo.. and my frend thought that too, idunno why! lol! but then, i thought hes some totalitarian, cuz i used to think communism is totalitarian, like all those rightists... but turned out i was mistaken, so i started readin about it, and i embraced it :)

[Charles]

i agree with you comrade but i still were che marchandise not socks or shirts but i always were a badge when i go out because it was che's inspiring face that trund me to communisn anyway and its a good way to see if someone is a fellow comrade.

if i see someone with che marchandise i question him or her about che but sadly :( most of the time they never know what im talkin bout

[Wanted Man]

Sure, of all the people wearing Che shirts, a lot of them are useless assholes. But that shouldn't discourage people who do actually know what the picture stands for, from wearing it. Although socks are kind of silly.

[Comrade Ben]

Indeed, Comrades, I agree with your statements. I was simply pointing out that this mass marketing of Che has deluded his image. We should not let his face go by, being worn on an ignorant. Inform them of the Commandante. Spread our knowledge to the unknowledgable. And perhaps, someday soon, Ernesto's dreams will be realized, even here in the United States.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

How about not wearing it period. If you admire Che you don't need a t-shirt to prove it.

[Abood]

How about not wearing it period. If you admire Che you don't need a t-shirt to prove it.
it's not about proving it. it's about spreading the word, propaganda, and its also a form of rebellion. i also think its better than wearing $30 corporation tshirts.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

Originally posted by Socialist [email protected] 4 2006, 12:12 PM

How about not wearing it period. If you admire Che you don't need a t-shirt to prove it.
it's not about proving it. it's about spreading the word, propaganda, and its also a form of rebellion. i also think its better than wearing $30 corporation tshirts.
No it isn't, now its just used for fashion. Jay-Z wore it for fashion, he put a diamond chain over it, clearly signifying he knows nothing about Che.

You can spread the word other ways. All this is doing getting more people who don't know anything about Che wearing that damn t-shirt. These shirts are made in sweatshops so it has a "corporation" feel to it doesn't it? Now would Che approve of that? I think not.

[Ice]

I don’t think there is any thing wrong in wearing Che products. Capitalists are using Che to make money and there is no doubt about that but still for buying cloths we have to buy it from the capitalists and so the capitalists are going to benefit even if we don’t buy Che T-shirts. But still we can buy Che products from workers movements and other organizations so that the profit will at least go for a good cause.

[Charles]

hey check out the store at che lives some of the stuff they have (che military uniforms) are taking it a bit to far

[Big Boss]

I don't have a lot of merchandise of Che, but I accept that I have some. My wallet has Che's face on it and I have only 3 shirts of Che. One that I bought at Hot Topic and the other two are from Cuba that a friend of mine bought when he was visiting the island. I don't wear Che all the time because his ideals are in my mind and heart, but when I use a Che shirt I use them to spread the word and the truth about this wonderful man.

[Abood]

Originally posted by FULL METAL JACKET+Feb 4 2006, 05:46 PM--> (FULL METAL JACKET @ Feb 4 2006, 05:46 PM)
Socialist [email protected] 4 2006, 12:12 PM

How about not wearing it period. If you admire Che you don't need a t-shirt to prove it.
it's not about proving it. it's about spreading the word, propaganda, and its also a form of rebellion. i also think its better than wearing $30 corporation tshirts.
No it isn't, now its just used for fashion. Jay-Z wore it for fashion, he put a diamond chain over it, clearly signifying he knows nothing about Che.

You can spread the word other ways. All this is doing getting more people who don't know anything about Che wearing that damn t-shirt. These shirts are made in sweatshops so it has a "corporation" feel to it doesn't it? Now would Che approve of that? I think not. [/b]
well its about the intention isnt it?! i wear it for a couple of reasons, which i already said.
plus, i don't buy much stuff from corporations, the stuff i buy are from local shops that get a couple of tshirts (maybe corporation, i dunno) and sell them, and there arent any worker shops n stuff like that in here, since i am the only commie. and jay-z, maybe he knows what che stands for, maybe he supports the guy for what he did but doesnt support marxism itself. my frend has che tshirts but isnt a marxist, thts because he supports what che did.

[Seong]

As already said his face is a very widely recognised symbol of anti-authoritarianism. Most people have no idea what it means as demonstrated by Jay-Z.

Though the two aren't comparable, this is very similar to how the Ramones have been absorbed into mainstream culture. Despite the fact that many of the little teenage twats proudly wearing this band's badge have never heard a Ramone's song (unless it was an advertising jingle) it doesn't cheapen the Ramones or their pivotal place in rock history.

What it does indicate is that some sellout who does know who the Ramones are has seen their 'marketability' in order to make more moolah. *Sigh* This is the way of the Captialist world and I am afraid that Che may also become a corporate logo. Obviously some dickhead who dabbled with leftist ideas in college got a commerce degree and grew up into some suit.

I don't think we have let him be used, I think he is being use against our will. :angry: But those cappie twats sure as hell aren't going to stop me from wearing what I still consider to be representative of my personal beliefs. :che:

[Comrade Ben]

Here, I expanded this into more of an essay, and cited Mao, and Castro, and expanded it past just marketing, but into the media has destorted them Tell me what you think:

“Shoot Coward, you are only going to kill a man” the last words spoken by Ernesto Rafael Guevara de la Serna, better known as Che Guevara, or El Che. Che was but one of many Socialist leaders to fall prey to a demon, the demon of the Western media. Mao Zedong, Fidel Castro, and Che Guevara have all been seized on by the media, and have had their ideals, and images twisted into a shape that is barely recognizable today.

The post World War II era brought many new advances and changes to societies across the world. Pop culture and the media where gaining importance quickly and the fear of the Communist block was abound. Americans feared the “Domino Effect”, in which if one country fell to communism, another, followed by another, followed by yet another country would fall to a similar fate. And in the possible occurrence of World War III, any country that may join with the communists was a terrible loss. Thus, Americans did all they could to impose this unjustified hatred of communism. The media and pop culture aided in destroying the image and ideals of socialist leaders. This is the main reason for the hatred, and ridicule of the aforementioned socialist leaders.

Fidel Alejandro Castro Ruz was born in Birán, Cuba in nineteen twenty six. During college, he joined several socialist political parties, such as the UIR, the Insurrectional Revolutionary Union, and the Orthodox Party, also known as the Partido del Pueblo Cubano, Party of the Cuban People. Soon, he was picked up into politics, and in the year that he was standing for parliament, a coup de tat broke out, and Batista took power in Cuba. Castro was exiled from Cuba, and he fled to Mexico, where he met a Argentinian doctor, Ernesto Guevara, and soon these two men along with eighty other Cubans boarded the yacht Granma, and sailed to Cuba, to begin a revolution against the Batista government, and to emplace a socialist government.

Castro has been used in the media to make a bafoon out of him. He has appeared in episodes of the Simpsons, Family Guy, Saturday Night Live, and varous other commedial programing. In these apperances, he is as oft as not portrayed as a bumbling, fat, cigar chewing imbecial. The film “Bananas”, directed by Woody Allen, is a parody off of Castros life in many ways. But, alas, it falls prey to the same ideals as all other media tools. Toward the end of the film, the dictator character begins to go mad, declaring ridicolous laws, such as “all undergarments must be worn on the outside”.These are a few of many attempts to lessen his power in the world, and diminish his views.

Mao Zedong was born in the Hunan province of China in 1893. At age 27, he became interested in communism, and two years later he was elected the Central Comitee of the Communist Party at the Third Congress. He was then blocaded in his quest to rule China by the Guomingdang. But soon after following the Long March, and the end of World War II, Mao engaged the Kuomintang, or the current Chinese government, and finnaly took control of mainland China.This lead straight to his Chairmanship, and onto his rule over China for 33 years.

Mao has not been cartooned in the same sense as Castro. Instead, Mao has been capitalised on. One can now purchase a Mao suit, or The Sayings of Chairman Mao, and numerous other “Maoist” items. The Nixon/Mao ping-pong paddles where quite the large sellers in the 60’s and 70’s, as well as the now extremly popular “Peoples Liberation Army Mail Carrier Bags” on which, the Chairman’s face is plastered to the side, with one of his many captions written in deep red ink. One can buy T-shirts with Mao’s face, and Mao hats. It is madness, the extent to which the West has capitalised on a Socialist leaders image. This is in direct conflict with Mao’s ideals, that it borders on hypocracy, anyone who purchases said items, and claims to be a “Maoist”, or a communist, or even a marxist.


Ernesto Rafael “el Che” Guevara de la Serna was born in 1928, and has become somewhat of a martyr, with his own cultish uprising. To quote the Time 100 article on Che, Ariel Dorfman states “That Christ-like figure laid out on a bed of death with his uncanny eyes almost about to open…the anonymous burial and the hacked-off hands, as if his killers feared him more after he was dead than when he had been alive: all of it is scalded into the mind and memory of those defiant times. He would ressurect, young people shouted in the late 60’s, I can remember feverently proclaiming it in the streets of Santiago, Chile, while similar vows exploded across Latin America. !No lo vamos a olvidar! We wont let him be forgotten.” This paints an erie image, of a man who has inadvertainly inspired such a cultish rising, the same man who, admitantly signed death warrents of enemies to the Revolution, but also the man who tended wounded enemy soldiers, who was wearied by the patients of a leaper colony that he visited and worked at when he was merly twenty six. This man is a coin, a double sided paradox. Of course, the media and marketers of the twentieth century cannot have a complex icon, especialy one who has brought about so much support for a socialist cause. So, the marketers took Che, the Commandante, the peoples image of their fearless champion, and brought him to the same fate that it has brought so many others. The marketers capitalized Ernesto, so that he not only lossed his ideals, and his power, but he gained a sort of mystique. “This is the fate of any icon,” says Ariel Dorfman, “Che has become ubiquitous; his figure stares at us from cofee mugs and posters, jingles at the end of key rings and jewelry, pops up in rock songs and operas and art shows. This apotheosis of his image has been accompanied by a parallel disapearance of the real man, swallowed by the myth.” In truth, one can purchase Che berets, shirts, jackets, mugs, pants, socks, clocks, sweat bands, posters, backpacks, wallets, messanger bags, and many, many other products. This directly goes against “Che’s disdain for material comfort and everyday desires.”1

The Western media has cartooned, capitalized, and demolished Socialist leaders images. These proud men, who fought and killed for their beliefs, who stood against tyranny, corruption, hatred, and evil, and tried to simply better the world for the people that they lived among, have been hated by American school children for decades. Why? Because, it was necessary to ensure capitalisms survival. To ensure that the media got their billions, to ensure that the West could continue to be free, it had to destroy any threats.





1From Time 100 Article, by Ariel Dorfman

[Ciaran r]

Hi

I think you take what should be taken from the man, his passion to change things and desire for all people to have a chance. I feel the merchandise is cool and everything, though I think it should have been patented properly ( heard it was a mess?) and all proceeds to the needy. Its just clothing...so if people want to wear it I have no problems, you have to remember it represents youth and kids imo should wear this, later in life they will read about Che and possibly start to change their thinking, its a knock on effect :)

[Alexknucklehead]

Seems perfectly reasonable, revenge for the dolphins.

:ph34r:

[MachinegunHead]

I just joined up to these forums after reading this thread, so this is my first post, feel free to judge me by it :P.

First of all, I totally agree with Comrade Ben. It sickens me how every day i go into university i see some form of Che merchandise, and i just find it extremely hypocritical and ignorant. Most people i talk to seem to wear it as a 'fashion statement' and normally respond to a question asking why they wear it with, "im a rebel! fight the government!", as if they are fulfilling some sort of punk fad. Capitalist merchandise depicting a socialist icon is just ridiculous.

Through out my life I have allways leaned towards socialism and communism, as I feel it impossible to be able to put the responsibility of running a country into the hands of a group of people. The fact that our lives are purely controlled by wealth in this western society also turns my stomach over, as we just get pushed into a system, and then locked in, and then brainwashed with all these flashing lights and colours, telling us to buy a coffee machine at a 'low low discount special price'. To me possesions don't mean much. I make my own shirts, I don't buy any single item that isn't really a neccesity. Heck, i one day want to throw everything away and just live my life day by day without possesions. But does that mean that I need to wear a che guevara hat just because i can relate to his, 'disdain for material desires'? No, because the merchandise itself is a material desire.

(sorry bout the rantishness of this post)

Also, I find that the majority of people who wear Che merchandise are totally unaware of things like his involvement in the upbringing of modern day guerilla warfare and his lack of mercy for prisoners after the cuban revolution. They seem to either just think he was a generic 'fight the system' figure, or a perfect revolutionary, when he also had his dark side that they just wont admit existed.

With that said, I tend to disagree with the wearing of Che geuvara merchandise, just because i feel the hypocracy is insulting to him, and I don't wear them as a sign of respect to his views and opinions, regardless of the fact that i disagree with some of his methods of revolution, (i.e. ghandi's approach >> Che's in my opinion). I do, however, find no problem in wearing symbols such as the communist star, or the hammer and sickle, as it shows that you agree with the pure ethics of the political concept of socialism and communism.

[fernando]

What about "parodies" of Che Guevara in movies. I give some examples:
-Cuervo Jones in Escape from LA...a truly lame figure a former Sendero Luminoso leader from Peru who wants to conquer America, but looks exactly like Che and "unites" the Third World..but is also very sadistic and like to kill everything.

-Dr Guevara in Once upon a time in Mexico...sadistic doctor who likes to torture people, sounds a lot like the gusano's interpretation of Che Guevara.

I mean we have direct exposure to Che Guevara in the forms of shirts, underwear, and all other sorts of goodies, but what about these twisted parodies of him portraited by Hollywood?

[Haligonian Red]

I generally take the view that it's fine for "useful idiots" to be running around like free billboards, advertising socialism everywhere they go. I agree though, it is infuriating sometimes.

If you want to REALLY get your blood boiling, have a look at this: Pancakes for Pinkos (http://pancakesforpinkos.com/)


Here's a funny story for you: I was standing around with a bunch of comrades waiting to get into the building where we had our monthly meetings. A couple of us were wearing Che shirts. There was another meeting going on at the same time, some kind of book club, mostly women.

One of them kept looking at us, sort of scowling. Finally she came over and proceeded to give us a tongue-lashing about how we shouldn't be wearing symbols of something we didn't understand or believe in, how it was an insult to the memory of the man and what he stood for, and so on.

We let her go on like that for a while. It was hard to get a word in edgewise, but once she slowed down enough we told her we were there for a meeting of the local chapter of the communist party. We even invited her to come and join us since she was obviously on the same page as us, but she clammed up and ran away instead.

I'm not sure what the moral of the story is, something about books and covers I guess.

[drain.you]

Yes, we've let Che be used.
I have a keyring and a poster with his face on but apart from that I tend to stay away from it, I refuse to wear any tshirts with him on. Don't think its right that the capitalists can make money from his image.

[guevarista]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2006, 10:13 PM
Yes, we've let Che be used.
I have a keyring and a poster with his face on but apart from that I tend to stay away from it, I refuse to wear any tshirts with him on. Don't think its right that the capitalists can make money from his image.
Merchandising is a symbol from our times, what about merchandising of the pope or whatever other symbol or man? It´s the way we have nowadays to try to express our ideas and spread them as well. We don´t have to underestimated the power of merchandising, we have to use new tendences and technology to shout our opinion loud. It makes a stand of us and our ideals. I would only hope that the benefits of this merchandising would be used to support Latinamerica in their way to freedom. If it was for that reason, I think Che would agree...

[drain.you]

Merchandising is a symbol from our times, what about merchandising of the pope or whatever other symbol or man? It´s the way we have nowadays to try to express our ideas and spread them as well. We don´t have to underestimated the power of merchandising, we have to use new tendences and technology to shout our opinion loud. It makes a stand of us and our ideals. I would only hope that the benefits of this merchandising would be used to support Latinamerica in their way to freedom. If it was for that reason, I think Che would agree...
Its not the same to compare Che merchandise to merchandise 'of the pope or whatever other symbol or man' because merchandise comes from Che's enemy, its capitalism using him and I doubt he would be happy of that since, as we all know, he wanted to destroy capitalism.

[Haligonian Red]

its capitalism using him and I doubt he would be happy of that..."

I agree that it's a contradiction, for sure. I just don't see how we can get around it short of setting up co-operatives and printing them ourselves. I'm sure some comrades are doing that on a small scale for local fundraising.

It still seems to me that the benefits outweigh the costs. Now more than ever Che is the symbol of popular opposition to capitalism and American hegemony, not just in Latin America, but around the world. We're "using" him too, but I think it's benefitting the movement a lot more than it is benefitting the garment trade, if you catch my drift. I think he'd have liked that just fine.

It's not as though the comrades in Che shirts are advertising for Nike or something.

As for the clueless ones, they just need to be educated and radicalized. Same as everyone, that's just how it goes. Meanwhile, the "coolness" factor is definitely working to our advantage, so why knock it?

I say let the craze continue.

[Hauck_the_Communist]

Che would be spinning in his grave if he knew what were going on. If you must wear a shirt with his picture on it, please, make it yourself. True communists would support the capitalist corporartion beast that practices such hypocracy to print such a great man's face. Half the people who wear the shirt don't know anything about communism. Half of those people didn't even know Che was a communist. Some of these people are the same people who would shoot Fidel Castro just beacause some 7th grade text book said "Castro is an evil terrorist." Its like taking a written copy of my values and taking a sh*t on them!

[Le Libérer]

I was researching Che's and Fidels use of Rolex watches on the net. And I came across the most interesting bit of info. In the late 80s Swatch came out with a Che swatch. The Cuban Government has bought up as many of them as they can. One report said 100,000 of them were found in a CUban warehouse.
http://ii.csusb.edu/journal/cuba/image.html

Some reports say to sell back to tourists, but I doubt that. I beleive (or maybe I should say, I think) they were doing their part to take back the commercialization of Che. I'm still researching the swatch in particular and have actually gone on ebay to see what the going price is for them. The price there was about $100. I was just glad to hear CUba is doing their part to stop CHe chic.

[Comrade Ben]

Or, perhaps they are holding such massiv eamounts of them, and selling them one by one, in order to make huge profits. Just my two cents.

[Niall]

it was inevitable that che would be "used". Any iconic figure will be. Perhaps a band such as RATM should carry a proportion of the blame. But on the other hand, if every one in ten kids who buy che memorabilia takes the time to look him up, then is it not worthwhile?

[Zak]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 10:40 PM
Its like taking a written copy of my values and taking a sh*t on them!
I agree with what your saying. But I think it's important to realize that the same is true of someone wearing a cross or a yinyang. I would imagine Jesus would say to take that money and give it to the poor. Lao Tzu something of the like. It makes me sick when I see people building giant churches and temples forsaking everything there religion stands for.

[hamperleft]

dude, don't buy che shit make your own, jack a red shirt from wallmart target whateva, make a stencil of che's face, and just use some acrylic gold paint(preferably stolen) to put it down on the shirt, spreads a message, and your hurting the cappi economy.