If any Canadian exist on this forum (vote)

[SmithSmith]

Don't forget to exercise your right to vote. Every vote counts.

It is better to vote then not to vote, whatever the outcome maybe.

[BuyOurEverything]

Meh. I'll vote, but only cause it's one of the last things you can do for free.

Who should I vote for? I'm torn between the NDP and the Greens. I usually strongly dislike the greens but there's a guy I know running for them and I quite like his ideas.

[kurt]

Don't forget to exercise your right to vote. Every vote counts.
You should be wary of anything deemed to be a 'right' in capitalist society. Especially something like participating in bourgeois elections. Is the 'right' to choose which quisling will implement ruling class agenda really a right in any meaningful sense of the word?

Elaborate on exactly what you mean by every vote counts. The only thing capitalist elections decide is which political careerist is out of a job for (4) years.


It is better to vote then not to vote, whatever the outcome maybe.
The outcome will always be in favour of the ruling class, that's how capitalist elections work. Don't lend any legitimacy to capitalist elections, don't vote.

[SmithSmith]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 09:00 AM
Meh. I'll vote, but only cause it's one of the last things you can do for free.

Who should I vote for? I'm torn between the NDP and the Greens. I usually strongly dislike the greens but there's a guy I know running for them and I quite like his ideas.


NDP.

People who vote for the green party, usually do because of the environment but the NDP has an environmental platform too and even better.

[SmithSmith]

You should be wary of anything deemed to be a 'right' in capitalist society. Especially something like participating in bourgeois elections. Is the 'right' to choose which quisling will implement ruling class agenda really a right in any meaningful sense of the word?

It depends on the party you are voting for. The NDP has made it clear it stands for working people and the party is actions in my area represent that.


Elaborate on exactly what you mean by every vote counts. The only thing capitalist elections decide is which political careerist is out of a job for (4) years.

The more people that vote for the NDP the likely the NDP will win and implement policies and regulations benefiting working people and the public.


If people like me don't vote then the party that would likely screw working people and public services over will win.




The outcome will always be in favour of the ruling class, that's how capitalist elections work. Don't lend any legitimacy to capitalist elections, don't vote.



It depends on the party. Voting is better then not voting. People died fighting for people to vote, it would be disrespect not to exercise that right.

[SmithSmith]

I understand your point that you believe whatever party is elected will represents the ruling class, however there are like four parties with different values and policies. If parties do not govern based, on the values, people elected them for then they will lose support, which no party likes.

[Bannockburn]

whatever party is elected will represents the ruling class, however there are like four parties with different values and policies.

No. They are the ruling class for a reason. In Canada, just like the United States we have four fractions of the same party. The same party is that of the business party. So in fact, there is only one party, the business party. Welcome to democracy is freeland Canada.

[SmithSmith]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 01:23 PM

whatever party is elected will represents the ruling class, however there are like four parties with different values and policies.

No. They are the ruling class for a reason. In Canada, just like the United States we have four fractions of the same party. The same party is that of the business party. So in fact, there is only one party, the business party. Welcome to democracy is freeland Canada.
You know four are just the major ones.


There are many more

NDP = the founder of health care in Canada

[LSD]

Personally, I rather enjoy elections. I find them to be an entertaining display of human desire. Sort of like reality television, but without the "human interest" crap.

But I don't forget that's what they are, a show.

Electoral politics can never end the slavery of capitalism, never.

I won't deny that, come the 23rd, whichever party wins will make some minor policy adjustments, but we are talking about the difference between being whipped once a day and being whipped twice.

Either way, you're still a slave! :angry:

As long as bourgeois elections are promoted as a viable means for change, people will buy into them and continue "waiting" for "reforms".

Well, "reforms" may come, but they will come slowly and they will come small, and they will never lead to anything more.

If you feel "obligated" to excersize your "right" to put a checkmark to a name, feel free to do so, but please do not advocate it as a viable mechanism for change. What you do in your spare time is very much your own business and so you can vote if you wish, but do not try and convince others to do the same!

Instead promote revolutionary options. That doesn't mean just telling people not to vote, though, it means telling them why not to vote.

It means explaining the nature of capitalism and the nature of class oppression, and that's a difficult enough task given current conditions without confusing the matter by simultaneously promoting the very system you're decrying!

If you tell the workers that bouregois "freedom" is a lie while at the same time encouragin them to vote, they will, rightfully call you out on blatant hypocrisy.

You cannot have it both ways. It's either liberal politics or revolutionary consciousness.

Choose!


it would be disrespect not to exercise that right.

Perhaps, but it would be far more disrespectful to lie to the workers and tell them that their "vote matters".

Guess what? It doesn't.

The sooner people realize that, the better.

[SmithSmith]

Voting is better than doing nothing.


What is so wrong with the NDP that you dislike when all it does is support working people, families and seniors?

[SmithSmith]

Perhaps, but it would be far more disrespectful to lie to the workers and tell them that their "vote matters".

Guess what? It doesn't.

If you vote for the conservatives you are correct.

[kurt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 09:43 AM
Voting is better than doing nothing.


What is so wrong with the NDP that you dislike when all it does is support working people, families and seniors?
I've got news for you, it doesn't. The NDP has been pulled rightwards ever since the day the CCF was formed. That's the nature of bourgeois politics, there are no radicals. The NDP, when in power provincially has been just as brutal to working class movements as any other government party.

And who said about doing nothing? Why don't you start off with denouncing elections. Unlike participating in bourgeois politics, it's actually useful.

[BuyOurEverything]

NDP.

People who vote for the green party, usually do because of the environment but the NDP has an environmental platform too and even better.

A) No they don't.
B) I don't give a shit about the environment, I like the candidate's views on other subjects.
C) I doesn't really matter anyways

I'm with LSD, elections are entertainment.

[chaval]

NDP?!?!?! GREEN?!?! arghhhhhhhhh nooooooooo
thank God they won't win. thanks to our single-member plurality system (first past the post) these guys dont stand a chance. Green, seriously just no. i wont even bother to explain why thats a bad idea
as for NDP, perhaps they are better suited to a provincial level in provinces that need that sort of socialism(?) i know the maritimes are big fans of them. All i know is that the NDP won in BC a while back ago. worst mistake ever. they totally fucked BCs economy, everyone suffered, the total loss was much greater than any benefit that might ahve been acrued to the lower class. let me tell a story. NDP buys a couple of ferries called the fastcats (fastcraps). spend several million to buy them so that i can get from vancouver to vancouver island about 20 minutes faster. wow thats really important to all of us, saving 20 mins on a ferry. i mean who cares about education, pension, employment etc when i can get to the island THAT much faster. then they build them all wrong so that buses can't even fit on them, then they forgot about regulations that dont permit the ferries to go above a certain speed, lo and behold they end up being just as fast as the old ones and accomodate a lot less people.
so what do they do? sell them! obviously no one wants to buy these pieces of crap so they sell them at a ridiculously low price and the money is all lost. what a stupid idea. seriously wtf were they thinking. The party leader ended up joining the liberals. HA!

take note, in NDPs campaign they dont actally say much at all other than saying why you shouldnt vote for liberals.

HARPER is number ONE - vote conservative.

why? so that we can ahve a chance at saving the now crumbling healthcare system and redirect public investment where its needed. (i.e. not sponsorship scandals and coverups)

[ReD_ReBeL]

[QUOTE] thanks to our single-member plurality system (first past the post)[QUOTE]

What! First Past The Post favours the big large corporate Parties, you want PR(proportional representation) is gives the smaller parties an equal chance of winning, well in the reformist game anyway.

[SmithSmith]

HARPER is number ONE - vote conservative.

why? so that we can ahve a chance at saving the now crumbling healthcare system and redirect public investment where its needed. (i.e. not sponsorship scandals and coverups)


You are lost if you think Harper is going to do something about the public healthcare system it goes against his views and values.


Harper = privatization
NDP = public
Liberal = mixed

[BuyOurEverything]

I have to admit, it made my day when Harper called Martin on reflagging his ships. Actually, a friend of my prof's made a movie about the Canadian Steamship Line and the fucking over of the Seaman's Union and it's being shown at my school soon. I'll try to find out the name of it, but it's a pretty disgusting story. Martin's company stabbed the workers in the back.

[Orthodox Marxist]

Im not sure I want to waste my time voting neither one of the three big parties represents me and voting for anyone just to keep paul martin and his pack of liberal liars out of power seems pointless

[redchrisfalling]

Anyone whose torn between green and NDP please please please go NDP. I love the greens enviromental platform and they are the underdog, but have a look at there go damn social policies. There stances on human rights and health care are completely fucked. Go to the web sites and ask questions.

YOU DO NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR THESE SOCIAL CONSERAVTIVES!!!

[Serge]

I am going to vote for the bloc because I am fondamentaly a separatist and that in my region the only parties who have a chance are Liberals and the Bloc.

[LSD]

in my region the only parties who have a chance are Liberals and the Bloc.

That's pretty much the case throughout Quebec.

...except in my riding, of course, where the Liberals always win. <_<

[poster_child]

Voting is about picking the lesser of the evils. Why would you do nothing and not vote, and allow a CONSERVITIVE gov&#39;t be elected? I admit, the liberals aren&#39;t much better.. but they are a little (when I say little, I mean LITTLE) better than the conservatives. Yes, they are both simmilar, and aren&#39;t addressing the problems they should be (ie child povety, big corprate polluters, the gap between the rich and the poor, fair trade, etc., as they aren&#39;t revolutionary parties). Would you rather have a party in power with a right wing agenda, or a centre agenda?? ( I know we don&#39;t like any of the choices, but again, the lesser of two evils).

If you can stop a right winged agenda, like going to war, getting rid of social programs, stop addressing the root causes of crime and just putting more people in jail, for a longer time, tax cuts to corps, etc. etc.

I must STRESS that I am not endorsing the liberals... because I am not. I am not a liberal... I am just an anti-conservative.

I am definately going to vote... I just haven&#39;t decided who for yet... I just know I&#39;m NOT voting conservative. I&#39;m leaning towards green, since it&#39;s the only party that cares about fair trade, democratic reform, the environment, and sustainable development.

You can be a revolutionary and still vote. It doesn&#39;t mean that you aren&#39;t an anti-capitalist if you vote.

...except in my riding, of course, where the Liberals always win

what riding are you in? paul martin&#39;s?

[AnTi-Right Nation]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2006, 02:20 AM
NDP?&#33;?&#33;?&#33; GREEN?&#33;?&#33; arghhhhhhhhh nooooooooo
thank God they won&#39;t win. thanks to our single-member plurality system (first past the post) these guys dont stand a chance. Green, seriously just no. i wont even bother to explain why thats a bad idea
as for NDP, perhaps they are better suited to a provincial level in provinces that need that sort of socialism(?) i know the maritimes are big fans of them. All i know is that the NDP won in BC a while back ago. worst mistake ever. they totally fucked BCs economy, everyone suffered, the total loss was much greater than any benefit that might ahve been acrued to the lower class. let me tell a story. NDP buys a couple of ferries called the fastcats (fastcraps). spend several million to buy them so that i can get from vancouver to vancouver island about 20 minutes faster. wow thats really important to all of us, saving 20 mins on a ferry. i mean who cares about education, pension, employment etc when i can get to the island THAT much faster. then they build them all wrong so that buses can&#39;t even fit on them, then they forgot about regulations that dont permit the ferries to go above a certain speed, lo and behold they end up being just as fast as the old ones and accomodate a lot less people.
so what do they do? sell them&#33; obviously no one wants to buy these pieces of crap so they sell them at a ridiculously low price and the money is all lost. what a stupid idea. seriously wtf were they thinking. The party leader ended up joining the liberals. HA&#33;

take note, in NDPs campaign they dont actally say much at all other than saying why you shouldnt vote for liberals.

HARPER is number ONE - vote conservative.

why? so that we can ahve a chance at saving the now crumbling healthcare system and redirect public investment where its needed. (i.e. not sponsorship scandals and coverups)
I agreed with every thing you said, since i live in B.C, and NDP screwed us up really bad. But as soon as you said vote for Harper, I almost had a heart attack. :angry:

[kurt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2006, 10:13 PM
You can be a revolutionary and still vote. It doesn&#39;t mean that you aren&#39;t an anti-capitalist if you vote.
No, it just means you&#39;re a hypocrit.

[BuyOurEverything]

So who else is starting to think that if they get a minority, the Conservatives will make an alliance with the Bloc and basically trade them sovergnty in exchange for passing all their privitization bills in the rest of Canada?

And while we&#39;re at it, what are your feelings on Quebec seperation? Because that&#39;s a much more interesting topic than the constantly rehashed arguments for and against voting.

[flames of the flag]

Harper is a fucking fascist. This is the lamest excuse for an election ever. No candidates have really talk all that much about what their platform is, they just rant on and on in slander of their opponents. The sponsorship scandal was bullshit. The public is truly blind if they cant see that this sort of thing is simply endemic of modern "democracy" as it exists within capitalist society.
This harper ad i heard really freaked me out. the one where he says "we arent electing a prime minister, we&#39;re electing a CEO". What the fuck man , i dont want a CEO, i want a fucking prime minister. Harper will be the end of everything half-decent about canadian politics: Same sex marriage, lax marijuana legislation, public health care.
The liberals are just fuckin centrists who dont really give a fuck about any kind of political ideology at all, just getting re-elected.
The NDP however, values teh environment, they advocate public healthcare, marijauna decriminalization, same-sex rights. Furthermore, they unlinke the conservatives, would not have us any more closely aligned with the US, and they have no interest in sending canadian troops to Iraq.
So heres the point, im not saying that this election is valid or legitimate. But if you didnt vote against harper, its kind of stupid to advocate violently overthrowing his regime. Isnt the whole point of a revolution that it is justified when democratic means have failed. Yeah Yeah Yeah theres no democracy in capitalism, only cronyism and patronage. but still, Its worth the token effort. Sitting around talking about why we shouldnt vote cant change the outcome of teh election. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD VOTE NDP. or better yet MARXIST-LENNINIST/CPC if they have a candidate in your riding.

[AnTi-Right Nation]

The horrible thing about this election is, Harpers Propaganda, is working to good for him. He has so many holes on his platform. He already wants to put us in the dept :(

Lets not forget, everything the guy says, seems like bullshit.





:che:

[Commie Girl]

:angry: DO NOT vote for the Conservatives......Please read thisLink (http://www.harperstiestousa.org/american_right_report.pdf) before voting.

[BuyOurEverything]

I don&#39;t think there&#39;s much danger of anyone here voting Conservative.

[LSD]

And while we&#39;re at it, what are your feelings on Quebec seperation?

Seperation at this point would only create yet another bourgeois republic and do absolutely nothing for Quebec workers.

The Quebec left needs to get its act together and set its priorities straight. The obsession with a "sovereign Quebec" is an idealist dream that keeps them focused, but prevents them from setting up real radical goals.

On this issue, http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=20732

[SmithSmith]

You know I like the NDP and what it stands for but voting for them means a better chance for the conservatives to win.

The liberals are a lesser evil.

I think the conservatives will win because the left vote is split between the Green, NDP and the liberals.

[Wanted Man]

The lesser evil is still evil, and that&#39;s the bottom line. Vote CPC or MLP if you can.

[LSD]

I trust by CPC you mean the Communist Party and not the Conservative party. ;)

And I suppose if you&#39;re particularly bored, and it&#39;s above -20 where you are, you could spend your afternoon waiting in line to write on a piece of paper.

Just don&#39;t delude yourself into thinking that it&#39;ll actually accomplish anything politically.

It won&#39;t.

[Eoin Dubh]

Salut/Hello&#33;

IT IS VOTING DAY&#33;

I was once a guy who destroyed his ballot.
But now I vote in any election I can.
I do understand why some of us don&#39;t vote, but for those of us who wish to have some say in which members of the ruling class shall push us around for the next 4 years, do please check out these two links:

http://pcc-cpc-2006.communist-party.ca/ -- this is a list of candidates for the CPC.

and,

http://www.mlpc.ca/candidates/candidates2006.html -- This one is a list of candidates for the CPC-ML

In my riding there are no Reds on the ballot.
I am just heading out to the polls right now to vote NDP.
I will be remembering the Regina manifesto of the CCF as I hold my nose and vote for the class collaborating New Democrats.
Those of you who are lucky enough to have a CPC/CPC-ML candidate on your
ballot, well, I hope you would give them your support.
Let&#39;s all cross our fingers (on our left hand&#33; lol) and hope for a minority parliament&#33;
:marx: + :engles: + :che: + :hammer: = :D

[AnTi-Right Nation]

just voted for the NDP :che:

[I&#39;ve Defected]

instead of not voting register to vote, show up and hand in a blank ballot which they count separately and shows as a statistic of how many people are completly dissatisfied with any candidate running

[TovaryshIvan]

I just voted Conservative.
You guys are all complete idiots, not voting isn&#39;t going to help anyone.
And is life under the liberals or the conservatives really all the bad?
"whipped once and whipped twice" Wtf? What is that supposed to mean? Promote what Revolutionary ideas? You are all a bunch of complete losers, armchair revolutionaries is what you all are. Sit around talking about how great the revolution is and how it is nigh. But are you actually doing anything to help bring it about? Nope, you sit around complaining about your government, which allows you to own the computer you type your bullshit on. Your government allows you to spew that bullshit about it, your government allows you to wear what you want, and display what you want from your car or website or yard. But oh life is soooo hard isn&#39;t it? Honestly what the fuck?
ALL COMMUNIST/SOCIALIST/MARXIST/LENINST Governments have failed horribly and their economies have stagnated after short burst of growth, and declined into absolute shit.

[Eoin Dubh]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 02:19 AM
I just voted Conservative.
You guys are all complete idiots..............................(Blah blah whine,mommy,etc, ) not voting isn&#39;t going to help anyone.
............government allows you to wear what you want, and display what you want from your car or website or yard. But oh life is soooo hard isn&#39;t it? Honestly what the fuck? (ho hum)
ALL COMMUNIST/SOCIALIST/MARXIST/LENINST Governments have failed horribly and their economies have stagnated after short burst of growth, and declined into absolute shit.
:lol:
This guy is swell.
Let him stick around in OI for comic relief. :lol:

[Purple]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2006, 10:30 PM

The Quebec left needs to get its act together and set its priorities straight. The obsession with a "sovereign Quebec" is an idealist dream that keeps them focused, but prevents them from setting up real radical goals.

They should also seriously stop skimping of the Canadian government for funding for their own little bratty "needs"&#33;

The prominent choices of government are the fanatical conservatives and the stealing liberals.... Is it just me, or have the word "democracy" lost its meaning...

[RedKryptonite]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2006, 02:19 AM
I just voted Conservative.


Perhaps you feel empowered now? Remember, it&#39;s a minority conservative win. :lol:

[BuyOurEverything]

They should also seriously stop skimping of the Canadian government for funding for their own little bratty "needs"&#33;

:lol: You from Alberta?


On this issue, http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=20732

I don&#39;t speak French. Or read it.


Seperation at this point would only create yet another bourgeois republic and do absolutely nothing for Quebec workers.


What do you think the consequences would be for Quebec and the rest of Canada? I&#39;m not too optimistic about the future of Atlantic Canada or the west if it happens.