Heterosexuality as a product of conditioning.

[RebelOutcast]

After reading Brave New World the other day (which is a fantastic novel by the way) I started thinking about how we are conditioned from an early age to accept certain things, one of the thoughts that I had was that heterosexuality was conditioned in to us from day one through the medium of stories and nursery rhymes, and later in life through television, radio, film and print that heterosexuality is the norm.

Anyway, I'd like to hear what other people think about this.

DISCUSS!

[Hegemonicretribution]

I would agree largely that BNW is a great book, and that conditioning has at least a massive, if not definitive effect on sexuality. Various social agents act upon you from an early age suggesting sexual preference. In the U.K. still, as far as I know, sexual education is not allowed to really deal with gay/lesbian relationships, teachers can't give advice about condoms for anal sex, or advice on coming out etc. Religions, although they are changing (with a huge amount of heel dragging) are becoming more tollerant (not accepting) of the gay community. Of course many are becoming more hardline in response to this.

Often family life is inherently homophobic, and this is quite often in working class families as well. There is a huge requirement for cultural identity nowadays, and the options are many and varied. However the inpenatrability of certain communities (real or perceived) acts as an unnatural force over who fits where. There are those I am sure, that would likely be homosexual, but have no interest in being "gay." This causes a lot of discomfort, and friction amongst groups.

Society defines these groups for us, but the amount of mixed messages is confusing a lot of people, and whether or not following preference or social expectations will bring us more happiness is not often seen as clear.

[Sentinel]

Sadly, often the inbuilt prejudices in society force gay people into a long and at many times painful process, before being able to live their lives in a satisfatory way. :(

It is very hard to break the accepted norms of society at the young age when a person usually realizes his/her sexual orientation. Many don't dare to do that ever!
That's why many a homo/bisexual at young age tries to repress his/her own feelings and true sexual identity. This deprives years from gay peoples lives. :angry:

This is why fighting homophobia is so important. It must be constantly confronted in every situation!

NO joke is harmless enough, NO "tradition" is old and "honorable" enough to be tolerated if it can be seen as homophobic.

Especially amongst leftists!

We communists must show the example for others in this as in many other cases.
Sorry about the raving tone, but this really gets me going..

Who wrote that novel and when? It sounds interesting.

[RebelOutcast]

Brave New World was written in 1932 by Aldous Huxley.
More info on the wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_new_world

[communist fanatic]

Heterosexuality is rendered "acceptable" to us because it is the only kind of pairing that gives us children, not to mention that it feels good to merge with the opposite sex. Does anyone know what the "official" percentage of homosexuals in the USA is?

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by communist [email protected] 18 2006, 04:50 PM
Heterosexuality is rendered "acceptable" to us because it is the only kind of pairing that gives us children, not to mention that it feels good to merge with the opposite sex.
Dosn't it feel equally good to merge with the same sex?


Does anyone know what the "official" percentage of homosexuals in the USA is?

Sorry.

[bed_of_nails]

Dosn't it feel equally good to merge with the same sex?

For me, no. I have tried bisexual sex twice, and neither time did anything for me. Didnt feel as good because even though I tried it with an open mind, it just didnt arouse me.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Although I was never really advers to it, I never talking same-sex relations past kissing, it just doesn't work for me. I have never felt biologically or emotionally attracted in that respect to a man.

I would admit that I think society has probably had some effect on me to this end. I can discount prejudices against all these things, but for me at least I can't enjoy them in the same way as I perhaps could of.

[which doctor]

I think that we were brought up to be heterosexuals. Our parents expected us to have an interest in the opposite sex. This would explain the overwhelming majority of people being heterosexuals. I think that we are all actually bisexual. Some of us just have a preference for one sex over another just like some of us have a preference of one person over another.

[Sentinel]

QUOTE
Dosn't it feel equally good to merge with the same sex?

For me, no. I have tried bisexual sex twice, and neither time did anything for me. Didnt feel as good because even though I tried it with an open mind, it just didnt arouse me.


Although I was never really advers to it, I never talking same-sex relations past kissing, it just doesn't work for me. I have never felt biologically or emotionally attracted in that respect to a man.

I think Additives Free meant: Doesn't it feel equally good to merge with the same sex, should you be gay Am I correct?

I mean, listen to what communist fanatic said:


Heterosexuality is rendered "acceptable" to us because it is the only kind of pairing that gives us children, not to mention that it feels good to merge with the opposite sex

Of course it doesn't feel equally good to you guys, if you are straight.
I don't believe in the theories that say that all people are bisexual.

But, however, how would I know? I think we can never fully understand how another person feels sexually.

[BuyOurEverything]

If sexuality is conditioned, then why are there so many queer people who grew up in homophobic households? While, conditioning doubtlessly plays a role in sexuality, I would say it plays a pretty minor role in determining homo/heterosexuality.

[1984]

Well, we do have natural instincts about preserving our own species, and I belive that's a solid base for heterosexuality.

Sexual repression in a homophobic atmosphere can actually liberate one's true feelings about who he/she is, so that's why many bi/homosexuals come from over-conservative/repressive families.

Fortunatelly sexuality isn't the big tabu that it was 50 years ago (thanks 60's!) but there's still much sexual repression in family life. That could ruin one's "emotional self", regardless of his/her sexuality.

And this obviously goes far beyond that. For instance - are TV, movies, family and like truly conditioning people to be hetero is this just a reflection of the sexuality of most people?

:huh:

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 08:47 PM
If sexuality is conditioned, then why are there so many queer people who grew up in homophobic households? While, conditioning doubtlessly plays a role in sexuality, I would say it plays a pretty minor role in determining homo/heterosexuality.
Many communists have come from reactionary families, take me for examlple. Perhaps they are just realizing the truth and seeking it for themselves.

[Kittie Rose]

I don't think sexuality can be conditioned in the normal sense, but it is possible that many people are bisexual and are "conditioned" to choose one sex, but there are still exclusively gay and straight people. I think that sort of makes sense...

Whatever we're programmed for, it's not reversible nor should it be treated that way.

[BuyOurEverything]

Perhaps they are just realizing the truth and seeking it for themselves.

You're shitting me right? Homosexuality is 'truth'? You think people destroyed their lives, ruined their careers, and in many cases commited suicide due to their homosexuality because, why, it was 'true'? Homosexuality is inate, people need to fucking realize this.


I don't think sexuality can be conditioned in the normal sense, but it is possible that many people are bisexual and are "conditioned" to choose one sex, but there are still exclusively gay and straight people. I think that sort of makes sense...

Whatever we're programmed for, it's not reversible nor should it be treated that way.

I agree.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 09:02 PM

Perhaps they are just realizing the truth and seeking it for themselves.

You're shitting me right? Homosexuality is 'truth'? You think people destroyed their lives, ruined their careers, and in many cases commited suicide due to their homosexuality because, why, it was 'true'? Homosexuality is inate, people need to fucking realize this.
I think you must have misunderstoon my post. I'm talking about people being true to themselves. People coming out, because they really are a homosexual. I know that homosexuality is innate. People can be 'truly' homosexual.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 04:01 AM
one of the thoughts that I had was that heterosexuality was conditioned in to us from day one
Well, sure. But apparently not all that effectively, huh? Seeing as how there are still gay people.

And considering most people would be heterosexual even without conditioning....most people are in all societies, and most animals are in all species with two sexes.

BNW exaggerates the effectiveness of conditioning, as does a lot of paranoid fantasizing out there. There's no evidence that subliminal stuff has any psychological effect, for example.

[RebelOutcast]

Seeing as how there are still gay people.

BNW exaggerates the effectiveness of conditioning.
Firstly, I never said it was all that effective as you pointed out BNW does exaggerate.


as does a lot of paranoid fantasizing out there
I wasn't being paranoid about it, I was trying to start a discourse on the matter.


There's no evidence that subliminal stuff has any psychological effect
I also never said that it was subliminal, infact I was trying to imply that it was rather overt, as it only seems to be so-called "straight" couples portrayed in childrens stories, nursery-rhymes and the like.

[Severian]

Never said you did say it. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.