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Koruptah
16th January 2006, 08:32
So, I've been reading quit a bit about the diferent branches of socialist thinking, and I've got a couple of questions:

Q1: Is there a definitive definition regarding council communism, i.e. a description of how it would work in practice. Such as how would the means of food, and commodity distribution work, etc.

Q2: Are Council Communism, Anarcho-Syndicalism, Left Communism, and Anarcho-Communism, more or less the same things?

Lamanov
16th January 2006, 13:29
Q1: Is there a definitive definition regarding council communism, i.e. a description of how it would work in practice. Such as how would the means of food, and commodity distribution work, etc.

Read this short joined article (http://www.marxists.org/archive/pannekoe/1936/councils.htm) by Anton Pannekoek, or better yet read his book Workers' Councils (http://www.geocities.com/~johngray/wcontitl.htm).


Q2: Are Council Communism, Anarcho-Syndicalism, Left Communism, and Anarcho-Communism, more or less the same things?

They pretty much advocate the same thing (self-emancipation of proletariat), although there are some doctrinal and philosophical differences.

Left Communism is usualy equal to Council Communism, describing non-Leninist Marxism in general, although, there are some "Left Communists" which do not affiliate to some councilist theoreticians. In exaple, some L-Cs organized in parties naturally do not identify themselves with Anton Pannekok, who was against party organization in general, but rather with Amadeo Bordiga.

I'm not that familliar with Anarcho-Communism, so I would not talk about it in detail. As for the difference between Anarcho-Syndicalism and Council Communism - A-S is orientated about organization of proletariat in "One Big Union" (IWW, in example) which will take over the economical struggle of the proletariat and take it to the next level by overthrowing capitalism, possibly with General Strike, while C-C advocates workers' Council self-organization by workplace-->community line. Difference is that C-C emphasizes spontaneous mass action, while A-S practicizes instant direct organization with gradual growth.

Koruptah
17th January 2006, 19:47
Thanx, for the info, Comrade. This has really helped me solidify my views. I'm definatly a left commie, although I still have questions about real world applications, is there a forum or thread, discussing Left Communism?

Lamanov
18th January 2006, 01:03
Hmm... not really. But the best way to get "into" it is to start reading it.

Just click on my signature link "Left Communists".

[edit: here]

Workers' Councils, by Anton Pannekoek (http://www.marxists.org/archive/pannekoe/1936/councils.htm)
Party and Class, by Anton Pannekoek (http://www.marxists.org/archive/pannekoe/1936/party-class.htm)
Theses On The Fight Of The Working Class Against Capitalism, by Anton Pannekoek (http://www.marxists.org/archive/pannekoe/1947/theses-fight.htm)
Council Communism, by Paul Mattick (http://www.marxists.org/archive/mattick-paul/1939/council-communism.htm)
Masses and The Vanguard, by Paul Mattick (http://www.marxists.org/archive/mattick-paul/1938/mass-vanguard.htm)
Mass Strike by Rosa Luxemburg. (http://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1906/mass-strike/index.htm)

Some LC basic literature.

And a link for Council Communist literature (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=44010) thread.

JazzRemington
18th January 2006, 03:40
Council communism and anarchist communism are essencially the same thing, except that anarchist communism has more respect for the individual's rights.

Entrails Konfetti
18th January 2006, 04:04
Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2006, 03:56 AM
Council communism and anarchist communism are essencially the same thing, except that anarchist communism has more respect for the individual's rights.
There isn't any proof, there hasn't been a long enough period in the Council-communist movement to determine that we lack repect for individual rights.
We didn't have the chance, we were thrown into gulags and/or concentration camps.

Only the future will tell, friend.

Koruptah
18th January 2006, 09:39
Originally posted by DJ-[email protected] 17 2006, 05:19 PM
Hmm... not really. But the best way to get "into" it is to start reading it.

Just click on my signature link "Left Communists".
Oh I did.. Hence my second post.. Thanks a lot! :)

beltov
21st January 2006, 20:18
Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 08:48 AM
Q1: Is there a definitive definition regarding council communism, i.e. a description of how it would work in practice. Such as how would the means of food, and commodity distribution work, etc.

Q2: Are Council Communism, Anarcho-Syndicalism, Left Communism, and Anarcho-Communism, more or less the same things?

Take your questions in reverse order: no, these political currents are not more or less the same. There are minor similarities, but also some important differences.

1. Two main currents represent the tradition of the communist left: the Italian Left, and the Dutch-German Left.
- The Italian Left was formed by the groups expelled from the Third International, and therefore from the Italian Communist Party, during the 1920s. Remaining true to the tradition of proletarian internationalism, the Italian Left (notably around the review Bilan) had two great strengths: its insistence on theoretical clarity and rigour, and on the importance of the organisational question. The ICC is the most important heir to the Italian Left today. We have written a book on the history of the Italian Left, details here:
http://www.word-power.co.uk/catalogue/thecommuni
- The Dutch and German lefts are generally grouped together because of the extremely close links between the two. Like the Italian Left, they were expelled from the Third International as it degenerated, and in some respects had more immediately correct insights into the critical questions of the day (notably the union question). However, their complete under-estimation of the organisational question, added to ferocious repression during the 1930s-40s, meant that the groups were unable to maintain a coherent existence and to pass on their lessons to the new generation. The ICC has written a book on the history of the Dutch-German Left, details here:
http://www.word-power.co.uk/catalogue/1899438378

2. The Council Communists came from the Dutch and German communist left of the 1920s and '30s, rejecting the role of the Party in the class struggle and the revolutionary process, and in many cases considering the Bolshevik party and the Russian revolution as bourgeois. Council Communism should be distinguished from its degenerated descendant, "Councilism", which developed after World War II and is heavily influenced by anarchist ideology.

3. Anarcho-syndicalism should not be confused with revolutionary-syndicalism, which developed as an international phenomenon within the proletariat during the early 1900s bringing forth organisations such as the IWW, whose members were heavily influenced by Marxism. The specific social and political situation in France at the time made it possible for anarchism to play a particularly important role in the development of the CGT, as it did with the Spanish CNT. This conjunction between a real proletarian reaction against the opportunism of the 2nd International and the old unions on the one hand, and the influence of anarchist ideas typical of the artisan petty bourgeoisie on the other, formed the basis of what has since become known as anarcho-syndicalism.

4. Anarchist-communism, or 'libertarian-communism' as it is often known, is an attempt to reconcile anarchism with marxism - by attempting to 'take the best' from the above political currents and leave behind the 'authoritarianism'. But, with its roots still firmly in the left-wing of the bourgeois camp, it fails to defend the basic class positions developed by the communist left on central questions, such as the need for dictatorship of the proletariat, the need to reject the trade unions, the need for centralised political organisations.

You can find a useful number of links to organisations from these different political currents - and what we think about them - here:
http://en.internationalism.org/links.html

As for your first question, DJ-TC has provided some relevant links. You can find a number of articles replying to all of the above political currents, and more, under the 'Political currents and reference' section of the ICC's site map:
http://en.internationalism.org/taxonomy_dhtml

If you have any more questions about these currents then fire away!

Beltov,
for the ICC.