Modernising Communism

[anti-authoritarian]

The theories of Marx and Lenin, while they may still be relevant in some aspects of modern society, have started to become outdated in this new century. The question I pose is how should Communism become 'modernised' to appeal to all social leaning thinkers?

The divide between the Borgoiesie and the Proletariat has increasingly become more undefinable. Also the so called 'centralist' attitude of governments and major political parties has caused many of the original working class to abandon there traditional very strong socialist leanings into more centerist, libertarian influences. The lack of 'noticible' major dictators in western society of course has meant that revolution or even revolt has become a rare thing. The modern media and education are starting to portray communism as a bad thing - Stalin and China being used as prime examples of an 'evil' communist force. The question remains communism needs to be modernised to show that it is a genuine ideology that should be taken seriously as a theory not as practice which has never in fact happened as little can be regarded as 'true' communism anyway. So how should communism become modernised?

[angus_mor]

First off, your concept of Communism is narrow, or atleast ildefined. Communism has never come about, though there have been Socialist Dictatorships, so-called "Dictatorships of the Proletariat", as you referred to; Communist China, the USSR, etc.

Secondly, how can you modernise communism? I'd really like to know, whereas the predicament has modernised, though not in any serious light. Ultimately what Marx has previously predicted is taking shape, though not within the time frame he suggested. The idea of modernising Communism just sounds like more reformist bullshit to me.

[DisIllusion]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2006, 09:40 PM
First off, your concept of Communism is narrow, or atleast ildefined. Communism has never come about, though there have been Socialist Dictatorships, so-called "Dictatorships of the Proletariat", as you referred to; Communist China, the USSR, etc.

Secondly, how can you modernise communism? I'd really like to know, whereas the predicament has modernised, though not in any serious light. Ultimately what Marx has previously predicted is taking shape, though not within the time frame he suggested. The idea of modernising Communism just sounds like more reformist bullshit to me.
Dictatorship of the Proletariat is meant as the dictatorship of the proletarian class to keep the bourgeois from coming back and destroying everything the revolution would have solved. It's not meant to be taken literally and have a one man based, centralized government rule all (i.e Mao, Stalin)

As for modernizing, that sounds rather strange. As Angus said, how would you come about that? Marx's work's aren't only possible in a 19th century world. As long as there is a working class and a ruling oppressive class, Marxism is possible and alive.

[which doctor]

Perhaps we should actually try out communism, before we attempt to change it. We need to learn from our mistakes.

[KC]

The divide between the Borgoiesie and the Proletariat has increasingly become more undefinable.

Hardly. If anything, the two classes are becoming more polar as capitalism declines.


Also the so called 'centralist' attitude of governments and major political parties has caused many of the original working class to abandon there traditional very strong socialist leanings into more centerist, libertarian influences.

What government does doesn't matter. Communist theory stems from the fact that capitalism will collapse in on itself. It has nothing to do with a government or a nation; it is about capitalism in its entirety.


The lack of 'noticible' major dictators in western society of course has meant that revolution or even revolt has become a rare thing.

Are you saying that dictators are a characteristic of communism? If so, then you're wrong. It's the complete opposite.


The modern media and education are starting to portray communism as a bad thing - Stalin and China being used as prime examples of an 'evil' communist force.

Starting to? They always have, ever since they realized how much of a threat it is to bourgeois society.


The question remains communism needs to be modernised to show that it is a genuine ideology that should be taken seriously as a theory not as practice which has never in fact happened as little can be regarded as 'true' communism anyway. So how should communism become modernised?

Modernised? Communism is based on Marxist economics, which capitalism is following pretty well and starting to prove how right Marx was!

[barista.marxista]

Lenny Frank Jr.'s Non-Leninist Marxism (http://web.archive.org/web/20010803232303/www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1587/nonlenin.htm) is a Council Communist work that includes an analysis of Marxism, a denunciation of Leninism, and an explanation of how councilist theories are applicable in the first-world today. It was only written a couple years ago.

[Janus]

The divide between the Borgoiesie and the Proletariat has increasingly become more undefinable.
The bourgeois still own the means of production while the proletariat must seek employment by selling their labor.


The lack of 'noticible' major dictators in western society of course has meant that revolution or even revolt has become a rare thing.
There are no major dictators but that doesn't mean that oppression has disappeared.


The modern media and education are starting to portray communism as a bad thing - Stalin and China being used as prime examples of an 'evil' communist force.
They began a long time ago. Revolutionaries must refute these slanderous claims in order to educate people as to Marx's true intentions.


So how should communism become modernised?
This would go better in the Theory thread but let's discuss it anyways. Some of Marx's theories are somewhat obsolete since capitalism has changed since Marx's time. Namely, some of Marx's economic theories need to be upgraded. Also, more thought has to be given to the idea of the transitional state between capitalism and communism. I believe that this topic will become one of the most important issues that we need to tackle if we are to succeed in our goals.

[angus_mor]

QUOTE
Namely, some of Marx's economic theories need to be upgraded. Also, more thought has to be given to the idea of the transitional state between capitalism and communism.

Indeed; he transitional phase between capitalism and communism is obscure in many theoretical doctrines, though I think it is not something of mere observation and critical analysis to solidify. It is of the scientific method - experimentation - that we must draw our conclusions, but never must we decide so conclusively of one method to another, for history has demonstrated that it can be done through multiple systems of organisation. And to decide that one is simply better than another only divides the workers movement as a whole; as seen in many examples of communists vs. anarchists.

Perhaps Marxist theory needs to be "upgraded," though his economic predictions still characterise capitalism, so one must ask, "how MUCH upgrading is necessary?" Furthermore, do we posess the consciousness necessary to "fill in the blanks"? History demonstrates that we do posess this consciousness, and must push forth in rooting it out.

[anti-authoritarian]

QUOTE

The divide between the Borgoiesie and the Proletariat has increasingly become more undefinable.



Hardly. If anything, the two classes are becoming more polar as capitalism declines.

I disagree - Capitalism is not declining in say Britain for instance, also the rise in once working class citizens who have achieved to a certain degree middle class status has in my opinion increased.


QUOTE
The lack of 'noticible' major dictators in western society of course has meant that revolution or even revolt has become a rare thing.



Are you saying that dictators are a characteristic of communism? If so, then you're wrong. It's the complete opposite.


No I'm pointing out that all the previous major revolutions in Europe (France and Russia) have overthrown dictators (or monarch as they are called) and now there are very few oppresive dictators.


QUOTE
The modern media and education are starting to portray communism as a bad thing - Stalin and China being used as prime examples of an 'evil' communist force.



Starting to? They always have, ever since they realized how much of a threat it is to bourgeois society.

But before Stalin blackened the name of Communism they had no real evidence to support their ironious claims.


Perhaps we should actually try out communism, before we attempt to change it. We need to learn from our mistakes.

Exactly - we need to be able to present Communism in a light which shows that it has never actually been applied properly.

[KC]

I disagree - Capitalism is not declining in say Britain for instance, also the rise in once working class citizens who have achieved to a certain degree middle class status has in my opinion increased.


There is no such thing as a "middle-class". Those are proletarians. Although their standard of living has raised, in the coming decades we will see it sink lower and lower until it is as it was in the 1800's.