New dude here...

[Koruptah]

Hiya all, New to the board, and I'm kinda new to actively thinking of myself as a socialist. I've allways been very left leaning. While I was in the US Navy (I joined cus they pay for college), I met several friends who are socialists. I told one of them that I thought free health care and education should be availiable to everyone(not just military personel), and my friend informed me that this was a socialist idea, and that i should read more about it... So I did, and came to the conclusion that, yes I am a socialist... I have yet to narrow down, exactly what type of socialist I am. Socialist Democracy sounds good to me so far...

I've also been checking out the World Federalist Movement, cus I'm reading "The Anatomy of Peace" by Emery Reeves. I'm not done with the book yet, but in it he states that wars are caused by separate sovereign entities having conflicting goals.. Basicly... So if we disolve all of the seperate sovereign states into one sovereign world comunity, most of the problems caused by conflicting national interests would cease, allowing government to work for the good of man, instead of working to protect its own sovereignty...

uhhh yeah so thats where I'm at right now....

[death88junkie]

Hello and welcome aboard :) that is very true.. eventhough i havent read any books of that kind, from my instinct i know that war is caused by division, basically, if the world was united there would be no war - and isn't that what Communism is about?!
You also said that you're in the navy.. this is very confusing, cuz you are fighting for a capitalist nation. i don't think any socialist should support any capitalist country. personally, i oppose patriotism, as it's the exploitation of the people by its government. people should open up and realise that their government is run wrongly. Please comment on whether ur still in the navy, and if ur still in the navy, are u considering leaving, and if not, why?!

[Koruptah]

Well I was never patriotic, never liked the government very much, basicly I joined to pay for school.. Then while I was in the navy, 9-11 happened, and from seeing the actions that my government took after 9-11, I began to realize the true nature of my government's intentions. I really hadn't payed attention to this stuff before.

I actually met alot of people in the Navy who did not agree with what the US government was doing. These are the people who got me to actually think about what our government was doing. Most of the people who were my friends in the navy, were either socialists or anarchists...

[Koruptah]

oh yeah...I'm out now...

[death88junkie]

U left, that's good, but why are socialist and anarchists in the US Navy, that's stupid. theyre supporting their opponents..
and thanx for proving my theory right. that americans hate the government, and therefore there could be a socialist revolution. i dont think that any1 would agree to capitalism, they only follow what they have and dont really care, but once they are enlighted with what it does and with socialism, i think they will all oppose it, except the bourgeoisie ofcourse, who are much better off with their power.

[expatriot]

Welcome Comrade to the board! I know a lot of people who were in the military. Many join to get an education or they have no other options. In this capitalistic society, if you don't come from a wealthy family or have the means to pay for college it is very difficult to acquire an education unless you can rack up student loans and also work while you are in school.

The gap between the rich and the poor is growing wider in America. You make some good points and it's good to hear from someone who was formerly military. :)

I think you will find this forum enormously educational. I joined recently and have learned a lot from the members.

[death88junkie]

U left, that's good, but why are socialist and anarchists in the US Navy, that's stupid. theyre supporting their opponents..
and thanx for proving my theory right. that americans hate the government, and therefore there could be a socialist revolution. i dont think that any1 would agree to capitalism, they only follow what they have and dont really care, but once they are enlighted with what it does and with socialism, i think they will all oppose it, except the bourgeoisie ofcourse, who are much better off with their power.

This picture is a reason why no one should be in the american army or navy or any kind of military.

[death88junkie]

Sorry for posting my reply twice, there was a problem with the internet connection..and i added a pic in the second one..

[VictoryOverWar]

welcome i am also a former military man....however i was in the airforce and i joined for similar reasons....well 1 reason really and that was school. I never liked my government but it beats living on the streets which i virtually was. Anyway welcome to the board i am also fairly new here. DeathJunkie many people in the military join simply because there is no other option. Not everyone in the military is this patriotic puppet that questions nothing. This is why i hate when i hear people on this board say they hate the military and there are threads on how to insult them etc....Many members of the military would be your strongest supporters if all you did was take a little time to educate them on the subject. Imagine if Koruptah's military friend had not taken the time to tell him about socialism. He certainly wouldnt be here and we certainly would not have another brother for the cause.

[Koruptah]

Heh, I was practically living on the streets too. The military gave me a place to stabilize my goals, and polital veiws as well. I think it was the best thing I ever decided to do... DeathJunkie, as VictoryOverWar said, many people join the military to get out of difficult economic conditions, because there is really no other way. So, please don't blame the US Military, for the stupid decisions of a corrupt government.....

DeathJunkie, I really don't think that there ever could be a peoples revolution in the United States, for several reasons:

1. The media constantly redirects peoples attention, and therefor thinking to inflamatory issues, such as Gay marrage, and abortion, indstead of focusing attention on the real issues.

2. The government is slowly taking away all of our guns.. So even if Americans did want to revolt, all we'd have would be BB Guns and single shot 22s, against a government with the most advanced technology in the world.

3. The government now can spy on us whenever they want, so they'd prollly know kow before hand if a revolution was brewing, and launch "pre-emptive strikes" to crush it...

.....but maybe thats just what they want us to think :) Really though I think that the process of revolution in the US, will be one that will take a long, educating the people.
With out the support of a majority of the people, any revolt, would be branded as a terrorist attack, and it's perpetrators vilefide in the press. This would turn public opinion against the revolutionaries, and the American people would help stop it.

[Koruptah]

OMG.... I started reading Marx and did the course at OneParty.org.uk - Damn I've got a lot to learn, the course i mentioned made it sound like, if I am anything other than a Marxist-Leninist, then I'm betraying workers every where... ummm.... this is heavy S#*t

[Tekun]

Welcome to RevLeft, may ur stay be long and informative :D


Im glad that both of u (Koruptah and VictoryovaWar) left the US Army
But, I have to admit as a committed socialist, anyone who fights for capitalism/imperialism deserves nothing but utter destruction at the hands of those who they are trying to oppress
It doesn't matter whether they're trying to make $ or truly believe the ignorance that the army and gov feeds them

And I'll give u my reasons:

As human beings, we are both intelligent and willful
If a person is foolish enough to pick up a gun and fight for something that their leader tells them is right without looking into the cause and scrutinizing the conflict's purpose/cosequence/benefit, then they deserve whatever resistance and retaliation the oppressed have for them

If ur a street person and u decide to rob a bank, you've decided to rob a bank knowing full well what the consequences and benefits will be
U don't rob a bank, without knowing what you're doing it for
Same goes for the military, u join the military for a or many reasons, and u ignorantly choose not to examine the results of your decision, kuz u know they're neither noble or gallant

Even if you know nothing about politics
If u scrutinize the situation, you'll see that the US Army is an extension of the gov
Lets turn the tables, lets imagine that Iraq invaded the US and removed the president
I truly believe that the entire population of the US, would be out in the streets, fighting the occupation, in the manner of the Iraqi insurgents
So without adhering to the lies of the military and of its master, any simple minded person would see that the invasion of another country and the subsequent control of its gov and society, no matter what "freedom loving" purpose is used to justify it, is nothing less than evil


Humans are not robots nor are they automatons who follow instructions without questioning the validity of their commands
We all have brains
It doesn't matter if you're a socialist or not, the history of America has portrayed the US gov as an imperialistic force that has fabricated reasons for war, in order to fulfill their political/economic interests
And that alone should convince u that the US is the epitome of evil and not worth risking your life to empower them
All ppl have to do is read a history book in school, look up Vietnam or Korea, and they'll see how evil their gov is


Another reason that I intensely loathe the military and all of its personnel is personal:
The reason I live in the US today, is because the US military invaded my original country-overthrew our democratically elected and very popular president- and created a puppet gov that would slaughter, during a 36yr civil war, more than 200,000 of my people
8 presidents, especially RReagan, had knowledge of the carnage that their puppet gov (with US military assistance) was committing in Guatemala, and they ignored it
it
So any person, that joins the US military, is an enemy of ppl who just wanna live in freedom

I am the product of US military aggression, and that is why anyone who fights alongside the US, is an enemy of mine

I hope u understand what I meant, and I happy that you've joined our ranks as socialists/anarchists/communists/anti-capitalists and anti-imperialists

Please don't take my reply as an attack on your person, but realize that joining the army is at least a conscious decision which many choose to ignore its consequences or results

[Koruptah]

Yeah... :( I know, thats why I got out, and I wouldn't say that I fought for my country... I kinda just hung out, spread disent with in the ranks, and played video games, until my contract was up. LOL, and they would have let me re-enlist if I had wanted to... stupid Navy...

[hemybel]

the philippines...

I JUST WANT YOU ALL TO KNOW THAT ERAP ESTRADA IS STILL POWERFUL IN THIS COUNTRY AND WE HATE THAT.. BECAUSE HE IS NOTHING BUT A GANGSTER AND HIS BROTHER IS A PORNSTAR! HE'S A PIMP!

[chaval]

So if we disolve all of the seperate sovereign states into one sovereign world comunity, most of the problems caused by conflicting national interests would cease, allowing government to work for the good of man, instead of working to protect its own sovereignty...

no. first of all thats not gonna happen. states arent just going to give up their power that easily. more importantly. the state is necesessary to provide certain things that private interests could not such as taxing, public works, healthcare, protection, law and order, judicial system etc etc. you cannot argue against these being social needs in our world. they were not necessary back when poeple lived in isolated villages such as many areas of precolonial subsaharan africa but our world is much too evolved and complex. also the whole system needs governing for the sake of implementing laws and supervising the public organizations. this system, in our highly interdependent world would need a form of inderect democracy as opposed to direct (everyone, literally everyone, gets to voice their opinion in a parliament such as the city-state governments of ancient greece) which would be ridiculously inefficient. so it can be concluded that a form of hierarchical structure is needed.

you propse one giant community but the needs of people are so vastly different and varied across the globe, whose gonna hear them? do you want one centralized government? one government that must meet the needs of 6 billion people and represent millions of societies? perhaps a better idea would be some form of cosmopolitanism where governing agencies are created for regions with specific needs. demands are kept at the lowest form of government such as community government but needs that cannot be met by such small bodies are relayed to higher bodies and so on. but what happens when conflicts occur that trancend more than one region? will you need a higher form of government that regulates those regions? would it not escalate again to one central government? the idea of confederation among the regional agencies might work but confederations are highly unstable, which is why USA abandoned that system completely in favour of a federal system. or soemthing like that.


oh and if you propse for an anarchic system where there isnt really a government at all other than maybe the small community (which in my opinion doesnt ever really exist in the western world anymore, at least not in cities) how will the community meet thr ridiculously high demands of people these days. who would pay for public goods? would each community have to build their own roads, drainage, sewage, water source etc etc? how highly inefficient and costly. in fact im pretty sure we would all be broke by now if tahts what we had to do

and if you break it down even further and propose no governing bodies at all then those ever famous 3 adjectives of Hobbes on life with the absence of government will most definately come true