Canadian Election - Voting

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Though I can't vote, I am curious who I should vote for some day. I know some of you argue against voting, but I disagree with that.

The liberals strategically are often the best choice, but I won't vote for them. Previously I thought of voting to keep the conservatives out, but I am not going to give into the corrupt election system.

This leaves other alternatives. The NDP, which is social democratic (some democratic socialists), seems like a reasonable choice. At least they support reasonable policies - although they don't take things as far as they should.

The Communist Party of Canada and the Marxist-Leninist party are two other alternatives. Again, I don't support the NDP or these parties because of political differences. I am not Marxist-Leninist because I object to centralization as a means of defeating capitalism. Regardless, my vote for either party is not going to influence this much. When time comes to deal with centralization, I could vote for another party by then - plus my vote likely won't make a difference.

I am very conflicted. Strategic voting gives a termporary boost the the working class, but it does not provide a long-term solution. Neither does voting at all, though. Voting does, however, tell comrades that they are not alone, which is always good.

So, even though I support none of the parties, which should I support with my vote? Remember, the Communist Pary of Canada is also Marxist-Leninist - I don't even know what the two commie parties disagree on, frankly.

Here is my order, at the moment.

Communist Party of Canada
Marxist-Leninist
NDP

The Marxist-Leninist party has more support, but, even though the Communist Party of Canada is Marxist-Leninist, too, it seems more acceptive of other communist ideologies.

[Forward Union]

I am not going to give into the corrupt election system.

Wonderful idea, I suggest you Vote like this (http://uk.geocities.com/votenobody/), but in application to your elelctions. And when people ask why your wasting your vote, simply ask them why they're not wasting theirs.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

I would rather vote for a party where my vote counts statistically. That way fellow leftists can see others are voting for leftists parties, and, because of this, they may be less likely to vote strategically.

[kurt]

Voting doesn't make a difference, regardless if you're "strategic" about it or not. It's not a good strategy period. One should concern him or herself with encouraging others to not participate in capitalist fraud.

[Forward Union]

For the working class, choice between political parties is like choosing between a kick in the face or a punch in the stomach.

Best to refuse both, that way you have a right to complain about the government. So, 'Blackrazor' to answer your question directly, don't vote at all. Not even for Marxist parties, because they are frauds. If you feel that not voting is just not right, consider going to the ballot and spoiling the paper, draw a Hammer and Sickle or Anarchy A, that way people know your not ignorant toward politics.

If you wish to get involved in real working class politics, PM me or something, and I'll let you know about local groups and campaigns.

[Guest]

Okay well anarchists have their own ways of organizing ..


The Communist Party of Canada is the second oldest party in canada.

Our party has had many famous leaders such as Norman Bethune (a candian hero-- a medical doctor who helped china in the battlefield), Tim Buck (great fighter during the depression) and many others who have been elected to parliament, such as Fred Rose. (Not to say the membership itself has played a huge role in the working class movement in our country)

Comrades played a frontline role in the "On to Ottawa Trek" and the "Mackenzie-Papineau Brigade" to help fight in the Spanish civil war.

We are a revolutionary party, and that's why we we're banned in the 80's.

Later, we were almost unregistered, under a pro-big business election act, but fought it, and won, in the case "Figueroa vs. Canada" (That's the reason you see so many small parties in Canada today).

Even in this election, you'll see candidates raising a fuss about capitalism and making some change.

In guelph, communist candidate Scott was voted as winning the Rogers televised debate (and he's just a student!)

At Ryerson in Toronto, another communist candidate got a big article written on fair debates and democracy in the student paper: http://www.theeyeopener.com/storydetail.cfm?storyid=2474

They finally let him in the debate.

The CP is necessary, the NDP doesn't talk about scrapping NAFTA or banning privatized health care or nationalizing oil and gas. but we do.

If you don't vote, you're only helping the capitalists.

Geez, when the stats come out they're not going to say '40% voted convservative an 0.001% drew an anarchy a on the ballot!'
Neither are they gonna say ''40% voted conservative and 1% decline to vote because they think ''the working class have no choice!"

But I suppose if you're not in line to lose your child care benefits or if you don't really care about capitalism a whole lot, it's cool to fuck around and mess with your ballot.

Otherwise, voting communist sends the clearest message against capitalism and war.

[red_orchestra]

...we need smaller political parties to diversify the electoral system. 4 choices- all mainstream parties inbed with corperate world. Yuck! Common, we need more Communist Party reps running in election!!

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Guest
If you don't vote, you're only helping the capitalists.

Typical reformist rubbish.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Guest]

Capitalists pay attention to the communist vote because it's a measure of social discontent.

[Red Leader]

Best to refuse both, that way you have a right to complain about the government. So, 'Blackrazor' to answer your question directly, don't vote at all. Not even for Marxist parties, because they are frauds. If you feel that not voting is just not right, consider going to the ballot and spoiling the paper, draw a Hammer and Sickle or Anarchy A, that way people know your not ignorant toward politics.

OK, I disagree that by voting you don't have a right to complain. Quite the contrary. Vote with your heart, dont vote "strategically". I really dont see the point in not voting. Its retarded. By not voting yuo have no say in your government and therefore cannot complain about the current state of it. Its ridiculous, we have at least some freedoms with the current stae of democracy, why not use them?

Just vote, its not hurting anybody and in the end if all the people that say they dont vote because the system sucks actually go out and vote for a party that isnt the conservatives or liberals, youll see how much better we'd be off.

Its sensless to sit around complaining about the way things are and not try and do anything about it. The analogy of choosing between a punch in the stomach or a kick in the face is false. There are differnces in the partys, or else our multiparty system wouldnt exist and we would be like america. (Unless you want this by not voting and allowing stephen harper to just cruise into office and completly warp canada into a second USA)

As for who to vote for, personally, I would vote realisticly and choose NDP. Although some of thier policies conflict with my views, at least they put working class people first and not busineses.

[Guest]

Although some of thier policies conflict with my views, at least they put working class people first and not busineses.


Actually, that's not true.

They water down everything in order to attract more votes.

They support the Clarity Act, an act of big nation chauvinism
They wouldn't scrap NAFTA
They wouldn't ban private clinics
They won't increase taxes (not even for the rich, says Jack Layton)
They very rarely attack the tories (that's not their main enemy since they want to win votes from Liberals)

In short, they're big opportunists.

At my all-can. debates, the NDPer always loves to drop this one comment that:
The Board of Trade are very friendly to him and the NDP.
And he met a CEO who was going to vote for him!

I'm voting NDP because there are no coms or ml-ers in my riding,
but they certainly do not represent the working class.

[red_orchestra]

The NDP are pro-corperate, spineless
The Liberals are pro- corperate, greedy, tyranic
The Conservatives are pro-police state, religious wingnuts

...who am I voting for? I hear their is a Marxist rep where I live... thats who i will vote for.

[kurt]

By not voting yuo have no say in your government and therefore cannot complain about the current state of it. Its ridiculous, we have at least some freedoms with the current stae of democracy, why not use them?
The working class has no say in bourgeois politics, I can "complain" all I want. The freedoms we have in our current state of "democracy" weren't won by voting in the bourgeois electoral system, they were won on the streets.


Just vote, its not hurting anybody and in the end if all the people that say they dont vote because the system sucks actually go out and vote for a party that isnt the conservatives or liberals, youll see how much better we'd be off.
Typical reformist nonsense. If only we voted in the correct party, then we'd be so much better off.


Its sensless to sit around complaining about the way things are and not try and do anything about it.
Well, let me lay it out for you in a way even you can understand.

Reformism is not a valid revolutionary tactic. It simply doesn't do anything useful. This particular method of "struggle" is useless. This isn't to say we advocate doing nothing.

Why not go out and actually protest elections? There's a start.


(Unless you want this by not voting and allowing stephen harper to just cruise into office and completly warp canada into a second USA)
Canada isn't so much "better" than the USA. If we were more powerful, we'd be taking on tougher imperialist ventures. Don't act like we don't already have countries under the yoke of Canadian imperialism.


As for who to vote for, personally, I would vote realisticly and choose NDP. Although some of thier policies conflict with my views, at least they put working class people first and not busineses.
A lie. Or maybe you really are just that naive. :P


...who am I voting for? I hear their is a Marxist rep where I live... thats who i will vote for.
What a "dialectical" choice he/she has made.

[Red Leader]

The working class has no say in bourgeois politics, I can "complain" all I want. The freedoms we have in our current state of "democracy" weren't won by voting in the bourgeois electoral system, they were won on the streets.

However pitiful the current state of democracy is right now, it is still a democracy. Everyone has a right to vote and voice an oppinion. Communism stands up for the democratic process and it is contridictory to think otherwise. Unless you want to end up like the old USSR or China, where all the shots were called by one ruthless party, elections allow every citizen to choose who he wants to govern.


Reformism is not a valid revolutionary tactic. It simply doesn't do anything useful. This particular method of "struggle" is useless. This isn't to say we advocate doing nothing.

Why not go out and actually protest elections? There's a start.


And im not advocating doing nothing but voting either. I am all for protests, riots and the like. However the need can be lessened if you have a government that actually hears what you say. Wouldnt it be better to protest a government that actually encourages it, as opposed to one that advocates a police state like harper's? Allowing a more progressive government into office that will actually listen to our struggle will make it a lot more effective than trying to protest a far right wacko. You have a choice. Its useless to protest and riot and try to get people to hear you if the government your opposing wont listen. What you want is an instant revolution and that wont happen.

Use the tools this corrupt system gives you to overthrow it.


Canada isn't so much "better" than the USA. If we were more powerful, we'd be taking on tougher imperialist ventures. Don't act like we don't already have countries under the yoke of Canadian imperialism.

At least canada isnt a theocracy run by a megalomaniac. You can help prevent this. Right now it looks like harper is going to win this election tommorow, because millions of people like you decide that its "useless" to vote. You can help prevent a police state like the US from forming simply by marking an X beside someones name that isnt harper or martin. So what if they are all just bourgois scum in the end? Im not denying it, but some are a LOT worse than others and there is a HUGE difference in thier policies. But it seems to me that you and everyone like you are blind to that.

Do you not realize the difference a party like the NDP can make? Do you enjoy not having to pay for your hospital bills? Well you can thank the NDP for that.

[kurt]

Do you not realize the difference a party like the NDP can make? Do you enjoy not having to pay for your hospital bills? Well you can thank the NDP for that.
I enjoy throwing up everyday for the last year or so with a severe stomach problem, and I'm even more "thankful" for the year long wait to even simply visit a specialist.

My good friend is also sincerely "thankful" for being forced to wait for an operation on his stomach until he was 65(!) pounds. He's 5'9.

And if I recall correctly, the NDP has never had a majority in parliament at the federal level. I do however, recall the anti-working class legislation by the NDP in BC in the last 20 years.


Everyone has a right to vote and voice an oppinion. Unless you want to end up like the old USSR or China, where all the shots were called by one ruthless party, elections allow every citizen to choose who he wants to govern.
What a liberating "right" the capitalists have given me. Electoral politics doesn't amount to more than a puddle of vomit.

You may think that the shots are being called by bourgeois "politicians". This is in fact, not true. The real decision making is in the hands of big buisness.


Its useless to protest and riot and try to get people to hear you if the government your opposing wont listen. What you want is an instant revolution and that wont happen.
The government we oppose will never "listen" to anything that has to do with it's overthrow. I would like a revolution now, but that clearly won't be happening any time too soon. I, however, never said that protesting elections would lead to a revolution now. It would simply help sow the seeds of discontent.



Use the tools this corrupt system gives you to overthrow it.

[Red Leader]

I enjoy throwing up everyday for the last year or so with a severe stomach problem, and I'm even more "thankful" for the year long wait to even simply visit a specialist.

My good friend is also sincerely "thankful" for being forced to wait for an operation on his stomach until he was 65(!) pounds. He's 5'9.

Obvioulsy our system has flaws, but its far better than the USA where you have to both wait and pay. You can thank the conservatives for he wait time, by the way, which the NDP plans to shorten.


And if I recall correctly, the NDP has never had a majority in parliament at the federal level. I do however, recall the anti-working class legislation by the NDP in BC in the last 20 years.

NO, the NDP has never ruled federaly, i was refering to the sixties in saskatchawan with Thommy Douglas , where he introduced provincial health care, which allowed the liberals like pearson make it federal.


What a liberating "right" the capitalists have given me. Electoral politics doesn't amount to more than a puddle of vomit.

You may think that the shots are being called by bourgeois "politicians". This is in fact, not true. The real decision making is in the hands of big buisness.


Like I said before, it doesnt matter if they are all supporters of busnises and what not, they have to be, thier politicians, not communists. HOwever if you dont vote, you can guarentee that harper will win and reduce coorprate taxes for banks and busnisses, somtihng the NDP is against.


The government we oppose will never "listen" to anything that has to do with it's overthrow. I would like a revolution now, but that clearly won't be happening any time too soon. I, however, never said that protesting elections would lead to a revolution now. It would simply help sow the seeds of discontent.


So will electing a more progress government. By not voting your taking steps backwards, not forwards

[RABBIT - THE - CUBAN - MILITANT]

.. my famliy has been voteing CPC (communist party of canada) since we moved here but we dont have a reperisentitive in our riding now so im a go NDP ;)