Julius Martov

[ReD_ReBeL]

so we have heard loads on here about Stalin and Lenin but what are your opinion on the menshevik leader Julius Martov? Personally he represents the same ideas i portrait. Yes there where a few right wingers in the mensheviks but martov only kept them because the Bolsheviks had restricted free press and there where no right wing papers etc and Martov was a fond believer in everyone having there say.Also under the Bolsheviks the liberals, socialist-revolutionaries where also persecuted which MArtov was strongly against which i agree with Martov here too.

[ComradeOm]

What exactly are you saying? That Martov allowed right wingers in the party because they had no where else to go? Considering that Martov only led a factionof the Mensheviks, and one on the left of the party at that, I consider it unlikely.

On the man himself, Martov is one of the few Mensheviks that I do identify with. He opposed both the war and the Provisional Government. Ultimately however he chose to remain in the reformist camp. Hence he was consigned to the "dustbin of history"

And, on a side note, I see nothing wrong with the suppression of liberal rags.

[ReD_ReBeL]

im confused im anti-USA government as much as you people. But you critizise the US government because they are anti-communist and are biased towards them and may supress there media play BUT if you where the leader of a nation you would do exactly the same shit just the other way round ie.supressing capitalists,liberals etc. this sounds like full blown hypocrisy.
No, What i am saying about the right-wingers in the Mensheviks is that there was already some in, but he didn't want to kick them out when the bolsheviks got into power because the Bolsheviks persecuted most of the other parties and Martov believed that there should be 100%be free press. then surprise surprise the bolsheviks banned the mensheviks.

[ComradeOm]

Why the fuck should we give the capitalists the right to free press? You think they're going to say how nice we are? Bullshit. When the bourgeoisie are down, as they were in 1917, you do not let them get back up again.

[ReD_ReBeL]

:lol: So lets get this right,you would only let pro-government articles into newpapers if u where leader? If everything what u hear is 'nice' about your party, you may never notice the things what need to be worked on.That is where positive critisism comes into play.Supressing all the people and groups that critizise you, isn't that not a bit fascist?

[ComradeOm]

No. I simply wouldn't allow liberal or counterrevolutionary rags to publish capitalist propaganda.

[ReD_ReBeL]

ok fair enough personal choice i guess. But you get any other views on Martov? because we are going off the original idea of the topic lol

[ComradeOm]

As I said:

On the man himself, Martov is one of the few Mensheviks that I do identify with. He opposed both the war and the Provisional Government. Ultimately however he chose to remain in the reformist camp. Hence he was consigned to the "dustbin of history"

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2006, 01:16 PM
Yes there where a few right wingers in the mensheviks but martov only kept them because the Bolsheviks had restricted free press and there where no right wing papers etc and Martov was a fond believer in everyone having there say.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Martov led one of the smaller factions of the Mensheviks, and was in no position to say who could or could not "stay."

On the other hand, he chose to stay in their party. No matter what they did, he remained united with them. But the second the Soviets - the elected representatives of the workers, soldiers and peasants - decided for the Bolshevik Party, he walked out. (In the October 1917 Congress of Soviets.)

Martov had some positive qualities and played a positive role at some points in history. But what can you say about somebody who values unity with the worst of sellouts over unity with the majority of working people?

In Lenin's time, the Soviet government banned only those parties which took up arms against it; that's why Martov was able to remain operating legally for a long time after other Mensheviks were banned. At one point, when a group of Right Socialist-Revolutionaries decided they'd been wrong to support the armed counterrevolution; Lenin advocated they should be unbanned.

I think it's pretty hypocritical to complain about that policy. I doubt most of those who complain about it would be that tolerant under similar circumstances; few capitalist regimes are.


im confused im anti-USA government as much as you people.

You sure are confused. Who cares how "anti-USA government" or anti-anything else you are? What matters is what you're for.