Idea: Crimes of Capitalism

[Axel1917]

I have noticed that there are important, pinned topics on the crimes of Stalinism and the crimes of American imperialism. I think that comrades should come together here and manage to complile a massive list of the crimes of capitalism, past and present, of which have been committed all over the globe (particularly considering that imperialism is the a natural and the highest stage of capitalism).

Unfortunately, I am a bit short on time, and I may not have a whole lot of time to post here, but I feel that a collective effort by the site's members can really help compile such a list of crimes, of which would also help out in educating comrades, as well as exposing Bourgeois hypocrisy whenever they point their fingers at people like the Bolsheviks for using force.

It is known that Fascism is an extremely reactionary form of captialist government (see MIA's definition of it). We should also note and expand on the fact that both world wars were the result of unbearable contradictions between rival capitalist superpowers exploding. Not to mention other horrible crimes, such as the genocide of the Native Americans in the USA, genocide against Jews in Nazi Germany, anti-Jewish pogroms in Tzarist Russia, etc. More should be expanded on these topics and others. Not to mention other horrib

Hopefully I will be able to contribute more in the future, if I am not too busy.

[ioncannon152]

There's this picture with Joseph Stalin and lists many of the crimes of capitalism, I found it somewhere, but can't remember where.

"When capital and the ruling classes apologise for: Colonialism, the 14 hour day, Class Privilege, the 7 day working week, children in coalmines, the opium wars, the massacre of the paris commune, slavery, the spanish-american war, the boer war, starvation, apartheid, anti-union laws, the first world war, flanders, trench warfare, mustard gas, aerial bombing, the soviet intervention, the armenian genocide, chemical weapons, fascism, the great depression, hunger marches, nazism, the spanish civil war, militarism, asbestosis, radiation death, the massacre of Nanking, the second world war, belsen, dresden, hiroshima, racism, the mafia, nuclear weapons, the korean war, DDT, McCarthyism, production lines, blacklists, thalidomide, the rape of the third world, poverty, the arms race, plastic surgery, the electric chair, environmental degradation, the vietnam war, the military suppression of greece, india, malaya, indonesia, chile, el salvador, nicaragua, panama and turkey, the gulf war, trade in human body parts, malnutrition, exxon valdez, deforestation, organised crime, the heroin and cocaine trade, tuberculosis, the destruction of the ozone layer, cancer, exploitation of labour and the deaths of 50,000,000 communists and trade unionists in this century alone, then - and only then - will I consider apologising for the errors of socialism."


I'll attach the picture.

[Kamerat Voldstad]

Wow... that's just what we need... I think I'll post that on my street and maybe gain a few votes...

[Goatse]

The thread was in Opposing Ideologies by Capitalist Lawyer, if I recall correctly. It was about a new monument being made in DC to remember the victims of "communist" regimes... although the grammar was a bit dodgy in the post, I think the bloke copied them from that picture.

Anyway, a few are a bit questionable, like malnutrition... and also, the 50,000,000 dead communists bit should say "in the twentieth century alone"... unless it's referring to the past 5 years and 8 days? :huh:

[CCCPneubauten]

" 50,000,000 communists and trade unionists in this century alone, then "

Who are they? I don't know my history on this one... -_-

[Sentinel]

I think the Soviet victims of the Nazi aggression are counted in, at least.
And a lot of people have perished in Vietnam and Latin America, to name two
examples, thanks to the American Imperialism.

[Fight Them With Your Lives]

well i know a little bit about the U.S crimes between 1898 and 1934!!!

The U.S had invaded cuba 4 times, Nicaragua 5 times, Honduras 7 times, the Dominican Republic 4 times, Haiti 2 times, Guatemala 1 time, Panama 2 times, Mexico 3 times and colombia 4 times!!!

Thats just between 1898 and 1934 not to mention the amount of bodies they had no problem creating!!!


When the U.S attacked the Philippines (around 1900) they ended up with 600,000 filipinos dead by the time they were finished!

Not to mention the amount of behind the scene slaughters like in palestine when the U.S give Israel billions of dollars to fund thier army!

*alot of this information came from the book addicted to war by joel Andreas*

[Tormented by Treachery]

Originally posted by Fight Them With Your [email protected] 19 2006, 07:41 AM
well i know a little bit about the U.S crimes between 1898 and 1934!!!

The U.S had invaded cuba 4 times, Nicaragua 5 times, Honduras 7 times, the Dominican Republic 4 times, Haiti 2 times, Guatemala 1 time, Panama 2 times, Mexico 3 times and colombia 4 times!!!

Thats just between 1898 and 1934 not to mention the amount of bodies they had no problem creating!!!


When the U.S attacked the Philippines (around 1900) they ended up with 600,000 filipinos dead by the time they were finished!

Not to mention the amount of behind the scene slaughters like in palestine when the U.S give Israel billions of dollars to fund thier army!

*alot of this information came from the book addicted to war by joel Andreas*
Gotta love the Roosevelt Corollary, no?

[KC]

There's no such thing as the "crimes of capitalism". Capitalism is a socio-economic system where the social relations are based on commodities for exchange. Of course, people can commit crimes because they are a part of this system, but that is why we have things like "Crimes of American Imperialism" and the such. Capitalism isn't "evil". It's better than what was before it and it will be worse than what comes after it. It's a necessary step in the evolution of our society.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2006, 03:06 AM
" 50,000,000 communists and trade unionists in this century alone, then "

Who are they? I don't know my history on this one... -_-
Well, for one, millions of communists were killed in 1965 in Indonesia in a CIA-sponsered massacre.

[Goatse]

List of countries the USA has bombed since WW2. (Compiled by my friend, Nebb... he has an account here, but doesn't post much.)

China 1945-46
Korea + China 1950-1953
Guatemala (sp?) 1954 (or possibly 55)
Indionesia 1958
Cuba 1959-61
Guatemala (again) 1960
Congo 1964
Peru 1965
Laos 1964-72 (or possibly 73)
'Nam 1961-73
Cambodia 1969-70
Guatemala (3rd times the charm) 1967-69
Grenada 1983
Lebanon 1983
Lebanon 1984
Libya 1986
El Salvador All through the eighties
Nicaruga All through the eighties
Iran 1987
Panama 1989
Iraq 1991-present
Kuwait 1991
Somalia 1993
Bosnia 1994
Bosnia 1995
Sudan 1998
Afganistan 2001 onwards
Iran 2005 (fuck up due to general shitness of US artilery)

[drain.you]

Every injustice you can see is a crime comitted by capitalism. The only exceptions are things that have been kept from feudalism and maintaining that kinda stuff is criminal too! lol.

Do we class Nazi Germany as capitalist? I think I would and theres quite alot of hardship under Hitler as you all well know.

[JasonJ]

I think the most overlooked crime committed by the forces of Capital is the institutional violence that is waged on a daily basis against the weak, uninformed working classes of the world. The downward spiral of human society is a direct result of the competative model of human interaction.

I doubt I am speaking anything new to anyone here by reminding everyone that in a capitalist system there will always be one winner and many losers of various degrees; but I feel it is worth repeating as often as it takes to make the world stand up and take notice of the statement's validity.

So let us spell it out in no small words. Let's not dance around the truth and argue that priviledge may or may not be the cause of man's collective strife. Poverty IS a crime. It is a crime against every living man, woman, and child in the world. There simply is no excuse in our modern world of excess and technological advance to allow people of any genre to starve and suffer, whether it is due to financial gain or lack of personal energy or committment.

[KC]

Every injustice you can see is a crime comitted by capitalism. The only exceptions are things that have been kept from feudalism and maintaining that kinda stuff is criminal too! lol.

No it isn't.



Do we class Nazi Germany as capitalist? I think I would and theres quite alot of hardship under Hitler as you all well know.

Yes.

[Djehuti]

A list of early death due to american politics; weapon aid, torture aid, aggresion wars, terror bombings, low intensive terrorism, support to fascist groups, military councilors, support to dictatorshops, support to exploative cooperations, et cetera, during the 20ieth century.


Kuba 1898-1959 - Probably 2 miljoner victims.
Puerto Rico 1898-2003 - Probably 0,5 miljoner victims.
Mexico 1910-2003 - Probably 5 miljoner victims.
Guatemala 1898-2003 - Probably 2 miljoner victims.
Honduras 1900-2003 - Probably 1 miljon victims.
Nicaragua 1894-2003 - Probably 1 miljon victims.
El Salvador 1900-2003 - Probably 1,5 million victims.
Costa Rica 1900-2003 - Probably 0,3 million victims.
Panamá 1902-2003 - Probably 1 million victims
Colombia - 1900-2003 - Probably 4 million victims.
Venezuela 1897-2003 - Probably 3 million victims.
Brazil 1900-2003 - Probably 20 million victims.
Haiti 1820-talet - 2003 - Probably 2 million victims.
dominican republic 1899-2003 - Probably 1 million victims.
Ecuador 1900-2003 - Probably 1 million victims.
Peru 1900-2003 - Probably 3 million victims.
Bolivia 1900-2003 - Probably 1 million victims.
Chile 1900-2003 - Probably 1-2 million victims.
Argentina 1900-2003 - Probably 5 million victims.
Paraguay 1860-2003 - Probably 2 million victims.
Uruguay 1900-2003 - Probably 0,5 million victims.
Zaire/Kongo 1961-2003 - Probably 6 million victims.
Angola 1970-2003 - Probably 6 million victims.
Moçambique 1970-2003 - Probably 5 million victims
South Africa 1949-1992 - Probably 2 million victims.
Kenya 1965-2003 - Probably 1-2 million victims.
Egypt 1979-2003 - Probably 1 million victims.
Liberia 1820-talet - 2003 - Probably million victims.
Russia 1918-1924 - Probably 3 million victims.
Balticum 1918-1920 - Probably 0,1 million victims.
China 1820-talet - 1949 - Probably 25 million victims.
Korea (syd och nord) 1946-1990 – Probably 5-6 million victims.
Japan 1945 - Continued terror after Japan already was beaten, including two atomic bombs against civilian targets, 1 million victims.
Vietnam, Laos och Kambodja 1949-1975 - Probably 10 million victims.
Philippines 1898-2003 - Probably 5 million victims.
Indonesia 1965-1997 - Probably 10, kanske 15 million victims.
Iran 1950-1979 - Probably 2 million victims
Palestine 1947-2003 Probably 1 million victims (through Israel).
Turkey 1945-2000 - Probably 4 miljoner million victims.
Pakistan, India, Bangladesh 1947-1990 - Probably 50 million victims.

Not counted: Tyskland 1917-1918, and 1941-1945, Japan 1941-1945. Here died an additional 10 million people.
Irak 1991-2002 - 1,5-2 million victims.
Afghanistan and Iraq - Still counting.


Well, this gives around 150-160 million victims. If we include the victims of inhuman, povertry generating and exploative structures during the 20ieth centrury, that gives maybe 250 million additional victims. So we have like 400 million.

And that was USA. Let's move on to the other 243 capitalist nations in the world...
We'll probably land at billions if we tried.

[1984]

Djehuti, just wondering, where'd you come up with this numbers? Could you show us a few sources?

[вор в законе]

End 19th century - beginning of 20th

Last repressions anti-Indians in the USA, which transfer the term of the committed génocide at the 19th century: 100 000

The war anglo-boer (for the control of South Africa) 1902 : 100 000

Victims of the colonial conquests of the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century (of which the conquest of Korea by Japan, 1908) : 500 000

The Russo-Japanese war (1904-1905). The only battle of Moukden that made more than 100 000 deaths : 300 000

The repression of the Revolution of 1905 in Russia: 100 000

The Italo-Turkish war for Tripolitaine (1911) : 50 000

Balkan wars (1912-1913) between Turkey, Serbia and Bulgaria: 500 000

The Armenian génocide in Turkey : 1 500 000

The First World War (1914-1918) : 8 500 000

The civil war in the USSR, the consecutive famines and epidemics with the foreign interventions and the blockade by Occident : 6 000 000

Repressions after the revolutionary movement in the various countries dEurope, Finland, Country-Baltic, Hungary, Germany, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria (1918-1923) : 200 000

The gréco-Turkish war (1920-1922), with more than 1 500 000 exiled: 100 000

Victims of Fascism in Europe before the Second World war (1924-1939) : 150 000

The Franco-Spanish war counters the Morrocans of Rif (1925-1926) : 50 000

Military interventions of the USA in Central America, South America and in the Caribbean (1910-1940): 50 000

The war of Chaco for its oil, between Bolivia and Paraguay (1931-1935): 150 000

Victims of the famines and the epidemics in the Indies, in China and Indo-China (1900-1945), including 6 000 000 for only China : 8 000 000

Massive repressions and the civil war started by Tchang Kaï-Chek in China (1927-1937) : 1 000 000

The war Japanese agression in China (1931-1941) : 1 000 000

The war of Italian Fascism in Ethiopia : 200 000

The civil war in Spain, started by Franco, supported by Hitler and Mussolini and facilitated by "non-intervention" : 700 000

The Second World war, military and civil victims, including deportees and Holocaust : 50 000 000

The French war in Indo-China (1946-1955) : 1 200 000

The American war in Vietnam (1956-1975) : 2 000 000

Repressions colonialists daprès-war in Algeria (1945), Morocco, Tunisia and Black Africa : 500 000


Repression colonialist in Madagascar : 800 000

The consecutive massacres indo-Pakistani with the partition of lInde (1948), including 14 million moved people : 300 000

The War in Algeria (1956-1962) : 1 200 000

The Genocide of the anti-communists in Indonesia, after September 1965 : 1 500 000

The war and repressions in Eastern Bengal/Bengladesh (figures dAmnesty International) : 3 000 000

The four wars israélo-Arabic in the Middle East (1948-1956-1967-1973), including the deportation of 700 000 Palestinians : 300 000

Repressions anti-Kurdish of Turkey, Iran and lraq : 200 000

The Iran-Iraq war : 600 000

The war in Eastern Timor : 200 000

American direct interventions or by guerrilla or paramilitary groups interposed in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, Panama, Dominican Republic, etc. : 200 000

Repressions in Latin America, supported by the American services : 150 000

Wars in Angola and in Mozambique : 3 000 000

End of the 20th century

The war of the Gulf, direct victims : 200 000

Iraq, victims of the denutrition due to the international blockade : 500 000

Inter--ethnic conflicts in Transcaucasia and Central Asia (1990-1995), including the war of Chechnya at 1995 : 200 000

Massacres in Somalia, in Liberia, in Rwanda, Burundi, Sierra Leone, Congo/Zaïre, Congo/Brazzaville, South Africa (Apartheid). Include the victims of the famines (the Sahel, Somalia, Ethiopia, etc.) : 4 000 000

The civil war in Afghanistan after the fall of the last government : 700 000

Wars and massacres ethniques in ex-Yugoslavia, caused by the disintegration of the countries and encouraged by the Western powers (1996-1996), including more than 1 million refugees : 200 000

Between 1990 and 1995 only, the Imperialist wars , an unavoidable part of the capitalist system, caused in the world 5.500.000 ( In Europe 250 000, Asia 1 500 000, the Middle East 200 000, Africa 3 500 000).

At 1997, the refugees and exiled amounted 40 million.

Number of Dead by Imperialism/Colonialism : 99 700 000

However these stats are incomplete.

First, because it does not include the recent war on Iraq.

Second, because it is necessary to add the deaths by malnutrition, which are 30 000 000 every year.



Source : ''Le Livre Noir du Capitalisme", Ed. Le Temps des Cerises, Paris, published at 1998.


http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/2841093255.08.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

[drain.you]

No it isn't.
I cant say I see other causes. I suppose lefties have committed crimes but isn't exactly visible. Care to expand?

[KC]

I cant say I see other causes. I suppose lefties have committed crimes but isn't exactly visible. Care to expand?


Rape, violence and murder not having any financial relation, crimes committed as a result of psychosis or mental disorder, drugs, crimes committed in the name of religion, etc...

[drain.you]

Hmm...some people have argued that rape is a product of capitalist society, think I read a thread on it here in revleft a while back.
Suppose violence and murder don't really correlate with capitalism and violence is a tool of most societies, capitalist or not.
Point taken :)

[KC]

Hmm...some people have argued that rape is a product of capitalist society, think I read a thread on it here in revleft a while back.

It could be argued that rape is a product of class society. Not just capitalist society.

[Punk Rocker]

Cool idea, man. We should forget this Stalin vs Trotsky bullshit and unite against our common enemy.

But capitalism has so fucking many crimes. In this trash heap of society, every corporate sellout, every imperial attack, we could never name them all.

[Zero]

One thing that would be pretty cool would be to map the progress of Americas intervintion. Then compare pros and cons... T`would make a great poster.

[vox_populi]

Originally posted by Punk [email protected] 26 2006, 04:36 AM
Cool idea, man. We should forget this Stalin vs Trotsky bullshit and unite against our common enemy.

But capitalism has so fucking many crimes. In this trash heap of society, every corporate sellout, every imperial attack, we could never name them all.
We could mention as many we could possibly fit into a book, a poster, a web page so that people becomes overwhelmed with the evils of capitalism...but that's just hopeful thinking...a cappie will point out ONE error and then everything will be deemed untrustworthy

Please keep this going...leave nothing out...the cappies don't...

[rouchambeau]

Trotsky at Kronstadt.

[Shredder]

Yes, damn that trotsky! what right does he have to smash counterrevolutionaries during a revolution. despicable.

[Haligonian Red]

Here's a link to a similar thread on another website: Right Wing Repression: a brief history (http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=001605)

This was my contribution:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Little is known about anti-communist massacres after World War II, not least because of the efforts by the anti-communist regimes to cover up such events. Such a massacre happened on the island of Jeju (South Korea) in April 1948. The estimates of the number of victims range from 30,000 to 140,000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And that's all Wikipedia has to say, and for most people maybe that's enough. This was on an island with a population of around 300,000.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This mass murder, in the guise of an anti-Communist civil war, was undertaken by the South Korean army, the Cheju-do police, and the U.S. military, which directed the counterinsurgency operation, providing military advisers, naval and air support, and U.S. ground troops. Prof. Bruce Cumings of the University of Chicago, America's foremost authority on contemporary Korea, is the scholar in the United States who has been trying to notify the American public about the 1948 genocide in Cheju-do. In 1990 he wrote in Volume II of The Origins of the Korean War, published by Princeton University Press:
"Other evidence demonstrated active American involvement in attempting to suppress the rebellion: daily tutoring of counterinsurgent forces, interrogating prisoners, and using American spotter planes to ferret out guerrillas. One newspaper reported that American troops interceded in the Cheju conflict at least one instance in late April [1948], and a group of Korean journalists charged in June that Japanese officers and soldiers had secretly been brought back to the island to help in suppressing the rebellion."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More about it and other ant-communist rampages around the southern half of Korea (prior to the war) here: Justice for Victims of the Korean Holocaust (http://www.kimsoft.com/1997/kr-holo.htm)

Jeju-do's crime was basically this: "No fences, No thieves, No beggars." That was how the islanders defined themselves long before communist theory came along. Like a lot of other subsistence level farmers and fishers around south Jeolla province on the mainland as well, they were basically egalitarian, traditionally communal in a lot of different ways, and with the Japanese gone they had some ideas of their own about how they were going to run things.

The massacres were pre-emptive strikes, to make sure those ideas never got put into practice.

[321zero]

10 000 Red Army fighters killed during the storming of Kronstadt outnumber by far casualties on the other side. It was a fortress after all.