GANGSTA RAP

[redstar2000]

I thought this was a very instructive analysis of "gangsta rap".


Originally posted by bell hooks
The sexist, misogynist, patriarchal ways of thinking and behaving that are glorified in gangsta rap are a reflection of the prevailing values in our society, values created and sustained by white supremacist capitalist patriarchy.

It's Bigger Than Hip Hop. (http://leninology.blogspot.com/2006/01/its-bigger-than-hip-hop.html)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I love Bell Hooks
great writter and thinker

She assesses and analyses American culture and education in such a way that I think could alter the bourgeois, racist mindset of many average Americans if they would just read her books and articles

[Rockfan]

Nice artical, its like what I think of it in big words. ;)

[Tekun]

Great article, Im gonna spread it around

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

I dislike gangsta rap, but if people want to listen to it (without any political/racist/whatever meanings) I couldn't give a fuck.

[steel town boot boy]

Gansta Rap is just lower class black people writing about the environment they grew up in, like all music its a mirror to the society which created it and if we don't like what we see we should change the ghettos, not try and change rap itself.

[Rockfan]

50 cent lower class - no
Jay Z lower class - no
Any other rapper in the top 200 charts lower class - no!!

You can talk about how they "came from the streets" as much as you want but there music deffernatly dosen't reflect the life there living now.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Their music doesn't even talk about real working class people. Working class people don't have "bling", "hos", and abundant amounts of Louis Roederer champagne.

Their music only mirrors a society of greed, sexual exploitation, and decadence. That is not the working-class.

[Hampton]

I still hold to the belief that there is no such thing as gangsta rap, just like there is no such thing as gangsta actors. Rappers up in the Top 200 talk about where they grew up and how they came up in life and also the life that they lead now. Rap has always been about geting things, money, jewelry, cars, or women because when you have nothing it is easy to rap about what it would be like to have them and to fill the persona of an alternate character, wich is what 90% of rapper do.

[Jimmie Higgins]

People act like gangsta rap invented anti-women attitudes and the desire for flash and luxury goods and so on. To me there is not difference between the worse aspects of gangsta rap and the worst aspects of rock and roll or hollywood.

2/3 of gangsta rap in the last few years has just been regurgitating talkes from movies like "scarface" anyway.

As far as materialism in hip-hop, yeah there's a lot of that and Hampton is right, except I think hip-hop is about trying to get respect, not wealth (but for a poor kid, wealth is seen as a road to respect in capitalism). Respect could come from having well-developed skills or from being knowledgeable on the one hand or being violent, feared and wealth and admired on the other hand.

I think when people start organizing against police brutality and the justice system and for fair treatment at jobs, we will see gangsta rap loose much of its apppeal because people will see that standing up and fighting back is a much better way to get respected.

[steel town boot boy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 10:11 PM
Their music doesn't even talk about real working class people. Working class people don't have "bling", "hos", and abundant amounts of Louis Roederer champagne.

Their music only mirrors a society of greed, sexual exploitation, and decadence. That is not the working-class.
I disagree, the ganster lifestyle is exploited but it is based on real neighborhoods, neighborhoods where upper middle class people don't go. I've worked with people, white and black, who have grown up in that environment and talking with them really caused me to check my assumptions about violence, drugs, prostitution etc. People see this lifestyle as the only alternative to a life of back breaking labour and scrimping and saving. While I agree that popular rappers have moved beyond that level, its bound to have an influence on their artistic expression. The same themes can be seen in punk if you care to look, drinking, fighting, crime the difference is punk gained a political edge early on and got respect with it where as rap (in the mainstream) has not been as outspoken.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Both punk and hip hop started out as expressions of class anger and this anger ususally develops into two main camps: 1)Cynacism and nihilism 2) radical politics.

Gangsta rap is the nihilism of hip-hop just as in punk a band might just have songs about getting drunk and fighting because life is shit and you can't really do much about it besides escape through drinking and drugs or getting wealth.

If Punk seems more generally political, it isn't because it got political earlier on, it's because it never blew up in the US like rap did. When it did start getting airplay in the 90s, the bands were explicity less than radical. In fact, aside from the Clash, I can not think of one other political punk band that regularly gets airplay.

[steel town boot boy]

Bad Religion gets played every so often, and here in Canada we get more Canadian punk because of content requirements, but the bands on the radio usually aren't too much of a challenge to the status quo.

[Global_Justice]

the only rapper i can think of who kept "it real" for at least the most part of his short life was 2pac, other than that they all became part of the problem

[JC1]

G-Funk is the most reveloutionary kind of Music today. Look at Tupac, Eazy E, NWA, Ice Cube, Ice T, et cet era.

I Mean you guy's are condeming people who wrote song's like "Fuck Tha Police' "Cop Killa" "Changes", et cet era.

I cant think of a single Rock and Roll Artist that has picture's of themselves standing next to cadavar's of Uncle Sam on there album cover's a la Ice Cube..

Sure it's rightoues to diss people like 50 Cent, P. Diddy, Young Buck, et cet era. I doubt those guy's were bangin' a set in the first place.

I mean it's violent music, yes, but life when youre poor is violent.When I was a youngin', the only thing that made me feel good in between seeing my mother drunk and getting into fight's on the street, was poppin' in my Tupac tape.

Hip hop talk's to me as a poor person just as much Karl Marx ...

... So fuck off.

[Eoin Dubh]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 12:47 AM
G-Funk is the most reveloutionary kind of Music today. Look at ........ Ice Cube, ..., et cet era.

I cant think of a single Rock and Roll Artist that has picture's of themselves standing next to cadavar's of Uncle Sam on there album cover's a la Ice Cube..



... So fuck off.
How do you feel about Ice Cubes use of the slurs "Devil" and "Cracker"?

I will fuck off at my earliest possible convenience. :)

[JC1]

How do you feel about Ice Cubes use of the slurs "Devil" and "Cracker"?

His rage at whites in general is misdirected.

However, The fact is that there is no deragatory word for whites in the english language that is as inflammatory as "Nigger".

[bunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 09:35 PM
the only rapper i can think of who kept "it real" for at least the most part of his short life was 2pac, other than that they all became part of the problem
Lord Ginesse has never sold out neither has KRS-One

[The Grey Blur]

JC1 I was once like you...

Right now I could list a whole load of bands (most of them speedy punk or ska punk, which is what I'm into right now) who have that same sort of rage that is a cool attribute of rap but listing bands is just annoying and I don't think you wanna be told what kind of music to listen to

Still man, I think you should broaden your musical horizons



I cant think of a single Rock and Roll Artist that has picture's of themselves standing next to cadavar's of Uncle Sam on there album cover's a la Ice Cube
Cool shock tactic cover but hardly revolutionary music


I mean it's violent music, yes, but life when youre poor is violent.When I was a youngin', the only thing that made me feel good in between seeing my mother drunk and getting into fight's on the street, was poppin' in my Tupac tape.
:lol: For some strange reason I thought you were a well-off Jewish person :lol:

[Eastside Revolt]

The term "gangasta rap" is mostly only used by those who know nothing about hip-hop.

I believe what she is referring to is poeple like 50cent, and puffy. In terms of that kind of shit I agree that it perpetuates capitalist, patriarchal values. In terms of 2pac and the like, they are merely accepting the fact that gangsterism is some of the only means for some people to gain any kind of power. The unfortunate fact is that some people get it twisted, and sadly in this case an intellectual.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

I think there is some sort of subconscious racism within people who dismiss hip-hop. I know that is easy to say, but it is, for me, a very credible opinion. When you look at what hip-hop is, it is the rawest cultural artform in comparison to all other music genres. When it started, and still to some extent today, hip-hop borrowed extremely little technology, very often none at all. It's poetry. But it's poetry of a kind that I think white people often find irritative because it is black people composing it. And it's often blaming white people for the problems that black people have.

I don't understand people dismissing it because of how obviously important and artistic it is. That is why, in my search for an answer, I've thought that it MUST be some sort of subconscious racism. There's no other reason why someone can't appreciate it. Not necessarily like it, but appreciate it.

Of course, I'm open to anyone's suggestions as to why else it may be.

And I'm NOT one of those folks who listens exclusively to hip-hop music. Infact, as some of you may have noticed from my other threads, my preference lays in gritty guitar music.

[Charles]

I hate Gangsta rap i hate the music and the people who sing it, but i am by no meens racist, i just think these people are a descrase to every thing the black people have fought for, i always have upmost respect to a black man who isnt trying to be all "gangsta"

once again sorry bout the spelling and puncuation

EDIT: i just reread this and realized how stupid my post realy was
im going to leave it here so people who read this know what the following argument is about

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Ohhh, you mean all the stuff that the "good nigger Martin" did? You'd rather blacks be passive? Be nice?

Got something to tell you. The lyrical content in what you call "gangsta rap" (and I don't know fully what you mean, but what that term means to me is the form of hip-hop born out of L.A. in the late 80's and early 90's, so I'll only use West-side examples) as written by the likes of N.W.A. (and their subsequent solo work), Snoop Doggy Dogg, Warren G and 2Pac is the purest means of expressing the culture they live/lived in. They cannot be nice about their situations. Why do you "hate" people expressing the pains in life they're forced to go through because of white capitalist society? Do you think they should keep schtum and take what they're given?

N.W.A. didn't shout "fuck that police" because they wanted to sound like "gangstas". They were representing a culture within black American society whereby police had brutalised them and subjected them to humiliating and disgusting treatment. It was a protest. And just because they aren't white with long, scruffy hair, it doesn't make it any less of an artistically and, more importantly, culturally significant document.

Snoop Dogg wasn't lying when he said, "murder was the case that they gave me", so that he sounded like a "gangsta". He felt he'd been unfairly banged up and prosecuted in the public eye for a murder he didn't do. Should he have just shut up about it? Or used his means of artistic expression to show the world the injustice?

When "gangsta rappers" rap about themselves, for example in Snoop Dogg's, "What's My Name?", it's not for a fun way of making themselves sound like big, bad gangstas. Have you ever heard of any theories of subcultures? Gangs are subcultures, formed when society can't "legitimately" provide for people their basic every days needs and rights. In certain subcultures, unwritten rules exist whereby your "rep" to others in your gang and other gangs is the one thing you live to keep up. It's not for fun. Gangs aren't formed as a means of passing time or scaring people. They are mini-societies, subconsciously formed because the wider society is so incapable of giving them a place in it for whatever reason. Well, instead of saying "for whatever reason", I'll take a stab in the dark and suggest it's because they're poor and black. Do they therefore have any less of a right to express the ways of their culture than, say, Salvador Dali? Mikhail Bulgakov? Beethoven? Writers, painters, composers, rappers. They are all expressing their lives and their cultures through the means accessible to them.

Have you heard 2Pac's song "Changes"? Do you not have the "utmost respect" for him for writing what is essentially (as all hip-hop is) a poem on the hardships of life where he came from? Should he not tell the world about racism? Gun crime? Police brutality? Should he shut the fuck up and stop "being gangsta" like you seem to think he should? Should he be a nice little nigger and ask politely to be treated well?

And if you were terming the big hip-hop heads from New York and the rest of America in your definition of "gangsta rap", just tell me and I'll happily explain some more to you.

For fuck's sake learn about what you are talking about before slating it in what was a completely uneducated and invalid way.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 09:38 PM
the only rapper i can think of who kept "it real" for at least the most part of his short life was 2pac, other than that they all became part of the problem
Far from keeping it "real", 2pac was from a family of black radicals and he pretended to be a hood to sell records to naive white americans. Gangsta rap just plays into the bigotry that white americans already have about african american males. Just the amount it's promoted should make you think about how much this genre actually represents ghetto communities.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by Socialsmo o [email protected] 25 2006, 05:08 AM
Ohhh, you mean all the stuff that the "good nigger Martin" did? You'd rather blacks be passive? Be nice?

Got something to tell you. The lyrical content in what you call "gangsta rap" (and I don't know fully what you mean, but what that term means to me is the form of hip-hop born out of L.A. in the late 80's and early 90's, so I'll only use West-side examples) as written by the likes of N.W.A. (and their subsequent solo work), Snoop Doggy Dogg, Warren G and 2Pac is the purest means of expressing the culture they live/lived in. They cannot be nice about their situations. Why do you "hate" people expressing the pains in life they're forced to go through because of white capitalist society? Do you think they should keep schtum and take what they're given?
The piece in question was dealing exactly with the idealist crap you're peddling:


That viewpoint was graphically highlighted in the film "Menace To Society" which dramatized not only young black males killing for sport, but also mass audiences voyeuristically watching and, in many cases, "enjoying" the kill. Significantly, at one point in the movie we see that the young black males have learned their "gangsta" values from watching television and movies--shows where white male gangsters are center stage. This scene undermines any notion of "essentialist" blackness that would have viewers believe the gangsterism these young black males embraced emerged from some unique black cultural experience.

Contrary to a racist white imagination which assumes that most young black males, especially those who are poor, live in a self- created cultural vacuum, uninfluenced by mainstream, cultural values, it is the application of those values, largely learned through passive uncritical consumption of mass media, that is revealed in "gangsta rap."



For fuck's sake learn about what you are talking about before slating it in what was a completely uneducated and invalid way.

Maybe you should do the same.

I'll never understand the love some on the left have for hoods. They should be put to the wall with the other capitalists.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by Socialsmo o [email protected] 24 2006, 03:10 PM
I think there is some sort of subconscious racism within people who dismiss hip-hop. I know that is easy to say, but it is, for me, a very credible opinion. When you look at what hip-hop is, it is the rawest cultural artform in comparison to all other music genres. When it started, and still to some extent today, hip-hop borrowed extremely little technology, very often none at all. It's poetry. But it's poetry of a kind that I think white people often find irritative because it is black people composing it. And it's often blaming white people for the problems that black people have.

I don't understand people dismissing it because of how obviously important and artistic it is. That is why, in my search for an answer, I've thought that it MUST be some sort of subconscious racism. There's no other reason why someone can't appreciate it. Not necessarily like it, but appreciate it.

Of course, I'm open to anyone's suggestions as to why else it may be.

And I'm NOT one of those folks who listens exclusively to hip-hop music. Infact, as some of you may have noticed from my other threads, my preference lays in gritty guitar music.
No there is not any form of racism in people that dont like hip-hop. I'll admit I really like the old school rap but I absolutely despise this new shit (with a few exceptions) with their bling bling, I'z got da money, da hoes, n da 24" rims homie. That really fucking nerves me when it becomes so damn repetitive. I also have to listen to it all the time in this one guy's car. Thank God I'll be buying it off him next week so I can put my favorite stuff in.

[Charles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 08:05 AM

No there is not any form of racism in people that dont like hip-hop. I'll admit I really like the old school rap but I absolutely despise this new shit (with a few exceptions) with their bling bling, I'z got da money, da hoes, n da 24" rims homie. That really fucking nerves me when it becomes so damn repetitive. I also have to listen to it all the time in this one guy's car. Thank God I'll be buying it off him next week so I can put my favorite stuff in.
my words exactly.

and i havnt seen 50cent put any of the millions he made back into the hood
because he needs the poor gangstas in the hood to keep his buisness rollin

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

You were all talking about "gangsta rap". In general. I know that people like 50 Cent, CashMoney Millionaires etc aren't representing the true essence of what hip-hop is meant to be.

But you talk about "gangsta rap". "gangsta rap" is not just 50 Cent. It goes back as far as the people I mentioned in my last post.

And as for Oglach...

The fact that you seem to be terming every rapper under the name "hoods" makes me physically sick enough. That in itself indicates a sort of racism to me. What's more, nobody denies the fact that the black gangs are synonomous with white gangsters from decades ago. The white gangs were formed, in exactly the same way, as subcultures for when society couldn't provide for their wants. The difference is, black gangs are formed because society doesn't cater for their NEEDS.

And I uphold my argument. I think there is an inherent racism in all of you who cannot appreciate hip-hop as an artform.

And Charles, instead of hiding behind what someone else said, why not respond to my response to your ignorant post?

[Intifada]

I think people need to stop generalising the musical genre that is Hip-hop.

Hip-hop is not represented by the few artists, such as 50 Cent, who release repetitive shit

Listen to the likes of Immortal Technique, Dead Prez, The Roots, The Coup, Public Enemy, Sun RA, Talib Kweli.

Those are just some artists I can come up with off the top of my head that are political and/or have a message other than shooting people, abusing women and doing drugs.

Even still, some "commercial" rappers do at times have good things to rhyme about. Look at Nas or Kanye West.

Commericial Hip-hop is mostly full of shit, no doubt, but the likes of Charles should stop making ignorant criticisms of a genre they obviously know little of.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 05:27 PM
I think people need to stop generalising the musical genre that is Hip-hop.
Agreed.

I am not the biggest hip-hop fan, but there is nothing inherently wrong with the genre. It has been manipulated and abused by the bourgeois, just like most aspects of life. If it wasn't hip-hop it could be punk, or blues, or metal. Stating a few popular artists and likening them to the entire genre is propoganda at best.

There are reasons for why things currently exist as they are in a class based society. Our job as Marxists is to attack primarily those areas that necessitate reactionary practice, or the perpetuation of it.

Not to simply generalise about something we don't like because it isn't pure enough for us. Almost every aspect of our lives is bent towards a bourgeois ideology in some way. Is the real problem to do with rejecting all these areas, or the system which exists whereby these areas of our lives are manipulated in this way?

It may appear self evident that hip-hop is racist, religion is evil, and that all swans are white, but unless there is a causal reason for any views we definitely hold then we are being prejudiced. Of course we have to hold oppinions based on what we actually see, but to assert knowledge, or actually attack something based on this, especially when exceptions are conceivable, or exist, is discriminatory.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Thank god for that. I thought I was the only one who hated this ignorance about hip-hop.

[commie kg]

Hip Hop is just about the only real revolutionary genre of music left today. No, not the MTV Gangsta rap. That stuff was made for rich white kids to consume en masse.

What other genre of music really speaks from the viewpoint of disenfranchised working class people? Punk sure as hell doesn't anymore. Most punk bands are just suburbanite white kids who hate their parents these days. Hip Hop is the only revolutionary genre left that hasn't completely died yet.

[Charles]

WHOA you all shut me up

yes i do know nothing of hip hop, and i did not wish to offend anyone i was only speeking of the artist my (white rich kid) freinds listen to I apoligise for my ignorance and am sorry to start such an uproar.


p.s I have nothing against hip hop or black people i just dont like the crap i constantly hear on MTV

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by Socialsmo o [email protected] 25 2006, 04:34 PM


The fact that you seem to be terming every rapper under the name "hoods" makes me physically sick enough. That in itself indicates a sort of racism to me. What's more, nobody denies the fact that the black gangs are synonomous with white gangsters from decades ago. The white gangs were formed, in exactly the same way, as subcultures for when society couldn't provide for their wants. The difference is, black gangs are formed because society doesn't cater for their NEEDS.

And I uphold my argument. I think there is an inherent racism in all of you who cannot appreciate hip-hop as an artform.

And Charles, instead of hiding behind what someone else said, why not respond to my response to your ignorant post?
Now you're just changing the subject bringing up hip hop as even I know hip hop and gangsta rap are two different genres. It's irritating to ignore what I actually post and then accuse me of racism.

Playing the race card is just silly, where I'm from the hoods aren't black, they're the same "race" as me. :lol:

I don't like hoods as they were used to kill some of our most dedicated revolutionaries like Gino Gallagher among others.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

"Now you're just changing the subject bringing up hip hop as even I know hip hop and gangsta rap are two different genres"

Well I went a bit off course. But to criticise what you call "gangsta rap" is to still criticise hip-hop. So my criticism of your ignorance still stands.


Playing the race card is just silly

I'm not "playing" any "card". If that's all you think my serious suggestion of racism is, I must bring into question how important you think racism is.

[The Grey Blur]

I despise Rap in general because all the pure shite outweighs the class stuff

I think that's how any music genre should be judged

[The Grey Blur]

Hip Hop is just about the only real revolutionary genre of music left today
How so? The boring, bland counter-revolutionary stuff outweighs the good stuff


That stuff was made for rich white kids to consume en masse.
Hardly, it's the "rich white kids" who buy the Talib Kweli CDs


What other genre of music really speaks from the viewpoint of disenfranchised working class people?
Well since most rappers aren't actually working-class...


Punk sure as hell doesn't anymore.
It never did, Punk was pure rebellion undivided by race or class. Still is.


Most punk bands are just suburbanite white kids who hate their parents these days.
:lol: Speaking from personal experience?

Listen to Anti-Flag, Thought Riot, NoFX , etc, there are piles of good Punk bands out now - some originally working-class, some originally middle-class, all briliant.


Hip Hop is the only revolutionary genre left that hasn't completely died yet.
The exact same description applies to Punk or Metal or whatever, don't be so close-minded

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by Socialsmo o [email protected] 26 2006, 01:36 PM

Playing the race card is just silly

I'm not "playing" any "card". If that's all you think my serious suggestion of racism is, I must bring into question how important you think racism is.
I said it was silly as race had nothing to do with anything I said. You playing the racial card is just away to avoid the unpleasant reality that hoods mostly prey on working class folks and often are used as tools of reactionary intrigue, like the example I gave of hoods being employed to murder IRSP INLA members.

For the record, you said:


The fact that you seem to be terming every rapper under the name "hoods" makes me physically sick enough. That in itself indicates a sort of racism to me.

in response to my post stating that hoods should be shot with the rest of the capitalists who oppress our class.

Where is the racial content in that? Are you saying that only one "race" produces hoods? You've lost me now. Most the hoods I've known are the same ethnic and religious grouping as myself.



"Now you're just changing the subject bringing up hip hop as even I know hip hop and gangsta rap are two different genres"

Well I went a bit off course. But to criticise what you call "gangsta rap" is to still criticise hip-hop. So my criticism of your ignorance still stands.

What ignorance? :lol:

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 06:32 AM
I'll never understand the love some on the left have for hoods. They should be put to the wall with the other capitalists.
My experience with what I think you're calling "hoods", is that they are much easier change than say... Nazi's or capitalists. But I do agree that hoods should be attacked if they are proved to be working with the authorities.

I wouldn't say it is love for hoods but rather love for comrades in struggle, even if they may be severely misguided. :P

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by redcanada+Jan 30 2006, 04:56 AM--> (redcanada @ Jan 30 2006, 04:56 AM)
[email protected] 25 2006, 06:32 AM
I'll never understand the love some on the left have for hoods. They should be put to the wall with the other capitalists.
My experience with what I think you're calling "hoods", is that they are much easier change than say... Nazi's or capitalists. But I do agree that hoods should be attacked if they are proved to be working with the authorities.

I wouldn't say it is love for hoods but rather love for comrades in struggle, even if they may be severely misguided. :P [/b]
I'd agree with that, Keymaster. :lol:

[deak]

I don't think the question of this article or post was whether there is good rap or not but whether Rap music is a reflection of reality, or if reality is a reflection of Rap music. I would vote for a mixture of both. I think that Rap has always been a reflection (although often exagerated or romanticized version) of what is going on in people's neighborhoods and lives. I also think that Rap has become such a pop icon that it is also begining to influence and change society. If a song like "Air Force Ones" can make millions and inspire people to buy shoes made by six year-olds, that definatley says something about its power as a shaper of society. Of course this is pretty much one of the most flagrant examples and shouldn't really be used as an umbrella description of the genera as a hole (again not gangsta rap).

Debating whether rap or gangsta rap is good or bad is irrelivant and imposible. It's never simply good or bad. Tupac wrote songs like "Krazy" and "Brenda's got a Baby" but he also wrote songs like "Hit 'Em Up" that probably wouldn't be concidered very positive. The point is in every genera, punk, rap, country, there is good shit that has something to say that is real and then there are the groups that are basically fake music that is here for money. For evey 50 cent, there's a Paris, just like for every Toby Keith there's a Johnny Cash.

I'm gonna give you all this website if you haven't heard of it (don't worry I don't work for them so I'm not plugging anything) http://www.guerrillafunk.com/ There's some good hip hop to get you all started (I strongly suggest Sonic Jihad). Granted, I guess it's not really "gangsta" in the least, but it seems as though some folks don't know where to start looking. Let that be your antidote to 50 cent and the Yin Yang Twins (not that I haven't been known to listen to both at the club).

--sidenote, does anyone else find it amazing tha Public Enemy is on that label now? I mean, these guys are like the greatest hip hop group ever.

[Tekun]

I used to be a big 2pac fan, but I have since understood that while he did make positive songs, he gave alot of garbage as well

The majority of his work was not positive, despite his direct roots to the Black Panthers

Unfortunate really, kuz he gave u purity with songs like Brenda and Dear Momma, engulfed in poison like I get Around and 2 of Amerikaz...

[Hampton]

I still don't get why it seems that when a hip-hop song does not have some sort of message that the song is without merit and it gets written off. Tupac just made good songs, Brenda or Hold Ya Head or not, they are good. His link to the Panthers is just another thing people seem to hold over his head and use it against him.

[La Comédie Noire]

I think early rap is good because it talked about how hard the streets where and ways to fix it than the music companies began marketing it in such a way it glorified street violence that the artists were protesting against. I think today's generic main stream rap doe's nothing but breed reactionary tendencies. When you look at it it supports the Idea of having no education and being proud, of acting exactly like peple think a "true" african american acts like. But that is also true of other music genres, wetaher music companies meant it or not I think main stream rap is keeping the "black man" down.

And thats my reason for disliking the genere of today, it is a better reason than "smarmy niggers need to shut up"and all that jim crow crap people usually say in opposition to rap

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 10:25 PM
I still don't get why it seems that when a hip-hop song does not have some sort of message that the song is without merit and it gets written off. Tupac just made good songs, Brenda or Hold Ya Head or not, they are good. His link to the Panthers is just another thing people seem to hold over his head and use it against him.
Alot of 50 Cent songs don't have a good message, would u argue that he receive merit for em, or that ppl should accept them despite the fact that they negatively influence young ppl?

As far as music goes, IMO Tupac was okay as a rapper (but he doesn't come close to the likes of Rakim or Rass Kass)
But his following and influence increased due to the persona and the image he built
But thats just personal opinion

I don't use his relation with the Panthers against him, it just seems odd that he didn't adopt the causes or promote the solutions that the Panthers so vehemently fought for, after all his mother and godfather were high ranking officials in tha BP

Since you admire Fred Hampton, as do I
If Pac was the son of a panther, why didn't he follow in his fam's footsteps or at least promote the positive things that they did, to such a large fan base that he had
Fred Hampton Jr did it, and many more panther children have done it as well