differences in ideals hindering revolution?

[against all authority]

this is something that has been crossing my mind for awhile and is scaringly beginning to give me doubts of a revolution ever taking place. (at least in my lifetime)

although leftists eventual aim is the same.. different theories have different ideal transitions. so this makes me think, would that create separate groups and cause dispute between us? which would then hinder revolution and unity...

just wanted to hear your opinions on it to try restore my faith :P

[Jimmie Higgins]

The best way to find this out is to look at the examples of past revolutionay periods.

Personally what strikes me about these histories is how quickly some things change. If you look at the US, the 20s and 50s were very reationary in character (palmer raids, mccarthyism) but a decade later, there was massive radicalization. In Germany before WWI there was a large socialist party, but little revolutionary sentiment, but revolutionary activity exploded at the end of the war and during the Weimar period.

besides, I think it's good that there are lots of different groups trying different ideas and I have confidence that workers will see the groups and ideas and be attracted to the ones that make the most sense and are the most effective.

What's missing, right now is any major forums for activists and rank-and-file unionsits and revolutionaries to debate out ideas and how we can start winning again.

Sites like this are a good start.

[redstar2000]

A revolution might very well not take place in your lifetime...at least in your country.

Does that mean you should "throw in the towel" and do "something else" with your life?

Well, it's up to you.

The life of an unsuccessful revolutionary certainly has its drawbacks.

What you have to do to be "successful" in capitalist society is not exactly "a garden of endless delights" either.

In my own life, I always took (and still take) great satisfaction in doing whatever I could to subvert the power of my "masters".

I think that's "worth doing" win or lose. :)

But I can't deny that quite a few young people "flirt" with revolution and then give up when they conclude (rightly or wrongly) that it can't happen "in their lifetimes".

I don't think "faith" is a good basis to live one's life on...not even "faith in the revolution".

I think purposeful activity that we actually enjoy is much better.

Is there some form of revolutionary activity that you would enjoy...even if it wasn't successful "in your lifetime"?

I think that's your real question...and it's one that only you can answer.

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[Janus]

Yes, there are many divisions and arguements between the different leftist groups. But this will actually help to benefit the revolution. We need debate in order to provide different thoughts and ideas that will benefit us in the long run. We want to make sure that the revolution will succeed; this will requre input from different groups so that we can be aware of different ideas that may not have been analyzed before. We can't just stick to one group's theories because revolutions aren't formulas or equations. The key word is solidarity, we mustn't let these differences divide us too far.

[against all authority]

good advice, thanks :)

just that even sometimes on this forum, "comrades" seem to get personal over differences in ideals and views.

realisticly, i know that the revolution probably wont take place in my lifetime but i am definately not throwing in the towel. although im young, i am certain that this is not just a phase. i work through difficulty and dont just give up at the first sign of it.

as for now i am trying to fufill my personal aims, of living a more ethical lifestyle and helping as many people as possible.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by against all authority
As for now I am trying to fulfill my personal aims, of living a more ethical lifestyle and helping as many people as possible.

Fine. But remember that "being a revolutionary" is not just about lifestyles or "helping people".

It's "bigger" than that...a lot bigger.

In one way or another, you are obligated to communicate to people a "revolutionary message".

I know that can be really hard to figure out...both what that message should say and how to say it in a way that people might listen to it.

But without that revolutionary message, you can't be in any sense a revolutionary.

There's no such thing as a "revolutionary lifestyle" nor is there any such thing as "revolutionary charity". By their very nature, those options change nothing.

In some way, you must "fan the flames of discontent"...get across to the people around you that revolution really is the only solution.

Even at the certain risk that people will call you "crazy" or "utopian" or whatever.

In time you will meet a few people who think your message "makes sense"...and then you can start to do some things that go in the direction that you want things to go in.

Good luck.

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[against all authority]

thanks! :)
yeah im also doing everything i can to be revolutionary outside of my personal goals. in my eyes every little helps. me and a few guys from revleft are currently trying to establish a network of lefties in school and im constantly distributing pamphlets, flyers and discussing it with people, as u said, some to no prevail, but thats how it goes.

i meant it as a sort of "personal revolution" as in a change within myself to become more involved but also to help people for example, i am going to nepal next year for a few months to help build an orphanage. i know that this wont make a revolutionary change in general, but to the few kids im helping out, it will change absolutely everything. just seeing their gratitude is to me, the greatest sense of personal satisfaction.