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ReD_ReBeL
3rd January 2006, 03:02
Is it really nessesary to recruit a 13 year old? in my eyes it is not atall!
Is woman completely liberated in FARC? doesnt sound 100% like it is.



Colombia's Female Fighting Force

Adriana is 17 years old. She joined the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), when she was 13 and killed her first man at 14.

"We attacked a police station, Adriana said looking down as she recalled her first taste of combat. "I just kept firing at the police station whilst other moved in. I lost some good friends that day."

Up to 30% of Colombia's most powerful guerrilla army is female. Women fight alongside the men and endure the same hardships as them.



Women are not treated differently, we do not cut them any slack ... They march with the men and they fight just the same

Mariana Paez, FARC Commandante
The FARC control more than 40% of the country and almost every week some isolated police station or security force base is attacked by guerrilla columns, hundreds strong.

Without the women the FARC would not be able to maintain such territorial domination or mount such frequent operations.

And while the FARC seven-man secretariat is just that - all men - women are making their way up the guerrilla ranks, and several now hold the coveted title of Commandante.

One such woman is Mariana Paez, 38. She has spent more than 11 years in the rebel ranks and now is on the FARC team involved in the peace process.

'No machismo'

She said the FARC was blazing a new trail in Colombia on the treatment of women.

"In the FARC, there is no machismo, as a policy," she said. "Yes there are macho men in the FARC, because let's face it, this is a macho culture.



Women train and fight alongside the men

"But such is the discipline in the FARC, that we are erasing these tendencies."

At first sight the women appear the same as the men. Both carry AK-47 assault rifles with the obligatory machete hanging on their hips.

"Women are not treated differently, we do not cut them any slack during training or operations," said Mariana.

"They march with the men, they carry their equipment and they fight just the same," she added as she sat in the sun outside the negotiating centre in the south of Colombia, in a 16,000 square mile zone granted to the FARC for peace talks.



Despite the rough living conditions in the jungles, many of the guerrillas girls wore make up


But peace talks are frozen and the dense jungles of this safe haven are riddled with FARC camps, where guerrilla live, train and plan their next operations.

Visiting these camps the practice seemed to contradict the theory as far as women are concerned.

In the field kitchens it was the girls that were peeling the potatoes and preparing the lunch. It was the girls who served the meal and then cleared up after it.

Despite the rough living conditions in the jungles of southern Colombia, many of the guerrillas girls wore make up, had colourful hair bands and exotically painted nails.

Yet they receive no regular salary and few have the chance to go into towns to buy such luxuries as cosmetics.

Rules on relationships

Many armies around the world have, or are, considering putting women in the front line, but wrestle with how they can regulate relationships between the sexes in the close confines of operations.

The FARC have set up a complex set of rules governing sexual relations. They are permitted, but no lasting attachments are encouraged and pregnancy is forbidden.



Strict rules govern relationships within the ranks

"In the first place girls have to ask permission before they embark on a relationship. There can be no secrets and if discovered these are punished," said Mariana Paez.

"Secondly there is no contract of any kind and if the commander tells her to leave her boyfriend then so be it. While they are together they may bunk down in the same place, but at no time must the relationship interfere with work."

But there is discrimination within this policy.

While male guerrillas may form relationships outside the rebel ranks, the females may only date men within the organisation. But Adriana said that women are protected from abuse within the FARC.

"They can't abuse the women because if they mistreat a women and she reports them to the commander, he has to go in front of a war council," she said. "If the war council finds a man guilty of rape, for example, he is executed."



It is not written anywhere that we cannot have kids ... [but] it is very difficult to be a revolutionary and be a mother

Mariana Paez
Contraception is obligatory, no matter how young the guerrilla girl.

"Well it is not written anywhere that we cannot have kids, but there is an obligation to plan against such, " said Mariana.

"It is understood that we are professional revolutionaries. Now while that might not be stated when you join, slowly that is made clear to you, as it is very difficult to be a revolutionary and be a mother."

Intelligence role

Women are being used not just in the front line of battle but increasingly in intelligence gathering. In July, the elite FARC column Teofilo Forero staged an audacious mass kidnapping operation.



The civil war kills more than 3,000 people every year

In the southern city of Neiva, not far from the guerrilla safe haven there is one luxury tower block of apartments, where the city's rich live.

Guerrillas disguised as policemen took over the building, blowing armoured doors of their hinges and kidnapping 15 people.

The operation had been planned long in advance and the information about how to get in and who to take had been painstakingly gathered by FARC women, who had infiltrated the building as maids.

Adriana was asked why the FARC recruit girls and why do they recruit them so young?

She looked puzzled and said she didn't know. But then she unwittingly answered the question as she rambled on about her experiences:

"There were not that many young boys left in our village, so they asked the girls. I went because I was bored at home and thought that life with the guerrillas would be an adventure. At 13 I did not know what I wanted to do, I did not realise that I could study like I am now."



The FARC represents an exciting life for many young people

But Adriana is not speaking from a FARC jungle camp.

The FARC now want to kill her, as she has done the unthinkable - she has deserted from the guerrillas and turned herself in to the authorities.

Now she is in a special rehabilitation house for minors and she is trying to unlearn how to kill, and to learn how to live in a city and a democracy.

She can never go home again as her family live in FARC-controlled territory, where her former employers are waiting.

Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1742217.stm)

violencia.Proletariat
3rd January 2006, 03:47
christ kid! did we not already have this discussion about where you get your information from? i have yet to see proof of these child fighters except from stories in bourgeois media. even so, why cant a 13 yr old fight? are they not opressed just as much as someone that is 20 or 40?

redstar2000
3rd January 2006, 03:52
Originally posted by ReD_ReBeL+--> (ReD_ReBeL)Is it really necessary to recruit a 13 year old? in my eyes it is not at all![/b]

Life for rural young girls in the "third world" is not very good. It's not surprising to me that they join up with the guerrillas whenever they get the opportunity.

As to its "necessity", I'm willing to leave that to the FARC and the 13-year-olds.

It's not "our call" to make.


BBC
Now she is in a special rehabilitation house for minors and she is trying to unlearn how to kill, and to learn how to live in a city and a democracy.

Live "in a democracy"?

I :wub: that BBC sense of "humour". :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

Guerrilla22
3rd January 2006, 05:58
So why shouldn't kids be allowed to join the revolution if they want to? It would be one thing if they were forcing them to fight, but they're there on their own accord. Most of the time the youngest members are used for things like printing up and distributing propaganda pammplets and such, not actually engaing in combat.

I think its great that around 30% of FARC's fighting force is female also, why should they be made to sit on the sidelines, they are just as capable as men.

Rockfan
3rd January 2006, 06:21
Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 03:11 PM
Is woman completely liberated in FARC? doesnt sound 100% like it is.




There probly alot more libirated than doing there mother and farthers bidding in there villages, possible struggleing to survive.

Professional revolutionaries haha that cracked me up.

Of course it dosen't tell you why she turned herself in?!?

Nothing Human Is Alien
3rd January 2006, 16:34
Women In FARC (http://vivafarc.blogspot.com/2005/12/women-in-farc-by-arturo-alape-they-are.html)

Redmau5
3rd January 2006, 17:09
So why shouldn't kids be allowed to join the revolution if they want to?

Using your logic, you could also say;

So why shouldn't kids be allowed to have sex with adults if they want to?


It would be one thing if they were forcing them to fight, but they're there on their own accord.

It would be one thing if the adults were forcing them, but they're there on their own accord.

The point I'm making is that just because the kids want to, doesn't make it right.

Personally I am against using children in any type of warfare, whether they want to fight or not.

Forward Union
3rd January 2006, 17:12
Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 05:18 PM
Using your logic, you could also say;

So why shouldn't kids be allowed to have sex with adults if they want to?

And indeed I do say that.


The point I'm making is that just because the kids want to, doesn't make it right.

Right and wrong are matters of opinion, theres no such thing as right and wrong.

redstar2000
3rd January 2006, 17:23
Originally posted by Makaveli
The point I'm making is that just because the kids want to, doesn't make it right.

What does make something "right"? Your personal opinion???

Well, decide for yourself and if you think something is "wrong" then don't do it.

But do not imagine for a second that you can decide for others.

If they're in a good mood, they'll just tell you to piss off. If they're in a bad mood, the consequences of your unsolicited opinion may turn out to be most unpleasant for you personally.

And you'd really have no one to blame but yourself. :(

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

Guerrilla22
4th January 2006, 09:26
Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 05:20 PM

So why shouldn't kids be allowed to join the revolution if they want to?

Using your logic, you could also say;

So why shouldn't kids be allowed to have sex with adults if they want to?


It would be one thing if they were forcing them to fight, but they're there on their own accord.

It would be one thing if the adults were forcing them, but they're there on their own accord.

The point I'm making is that just because the kids want to, doesn't make it right.

Personally I am against using children in any type of warfare, whether they want to fight or not.
Like I said, the kids aren't being used in combat, but for other purposes, like printing up and distributing propaganda and other task.

ReD_ReBeL
5th January 2006, 19:41
did you read the article is states "We attacked a police station, Adriana said looking down as she recalled her first taste of combat. "I just kept firing at the police station whilst other moved in. I lost some good friends that day."
My friend that IS combat .

C_Rasmussen
5th January 2006, 19:54
Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2006, 12:09 AM
So why shouldn't kids be allowed to join the revolution if they want to? It would be one thing if they were forcing them to fight, but they're there on their own accord. Most of the time the youngest members are used for things like printing up and distributing propaganda pammplets and such, not actually engaing in combat.

Absolutely. Children are the best at changing people's minds on things. Would you really say no to a little kid? Think about that for a moment.

ReD_ReBeL
5th January 2006, 20:11
dont be such a soppy git , of course i could say no to a little kid. So if a 12 year old asked you for sex , u couldent say no? its all about the topic, personally i would not recruit little kids so therefore i would be able to say no! Kids should not be carrying around guns killing people and risking being shot, They probably dont proparly even understand the situation therefore there probably in a sense being brainwashed by the FARC or whoever to fight for them.

C_Rasmussen
5th January 2006, 20:16
Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 02:22 PM
dont be such a soppy git , of course i could say no to a little kid. So if a 12 year old asked you for sex , u couldent say no? its all about the topic, personally i would not recruit little kids so therefore i would be able to say no! Kids should not be carrying around guns killing people and risking being shot, They probably dont proparly even understand the situation therefore there probably in a sense being brainwashed by the FARC or whoever to fight for them.
Are we talking about asking 12 year olds for sex? No we aren&#39;t. What was said is that they could be valuable for propaganda against the enemy. I meant to say (being this PC is a load of shit <_<) is could you really turn down a little kid when they&#39;re handing out a flyer that goes against the opposition?

violencia.Proletariat
5th January 2006, 20:36
Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 04:22 PM
dont be such a soppy git , of course i could say no to a little kid. So if a 12 year old asked you for sex , u couldent say no? its all about the topic, personally i would not recruit little kids so therefore i would be able to say no&#33; Kids should not be carrying around guns killing people and risking being shot, They probably dont proparly even understand the situation therefore there probably in a sense being brainwashed by the FARC or whoever to fight for them.
What makes you think farc targets children for recruitment? Besides, in latin america i think the age that starts adulthood is 16. I however do not consider a 13 yr old a "child". 13 year olds can make decisions in their own interest. A 13 year old knows what an army does, and wheather or not to join. For all we know these girls could have volunteered without being recruited because of the life they would live in their village. Maybe they dont want to live in opression like that?

LuĂ­s Henrique
5th January 2006, 23:10
Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 08:22 PM
They probably dont proparly even understand the situation therefore there probably in a sense being brainwashed by the FARC or whoever to fight for them.
They understand that their families are unable to sustain them, and that there is more future - economically speaking - in the FARC than in the coffee plantations.

This may not spell much good of the FARC - but it certainly points out what the real problem is - the failure usually known as Colombian State.

Luís Henrique

LuĂ­s Henrique
5th January 2006, 23:17
Besides, in latin america i think the age that starts adulthood is 16.

In Colombia, I don&#39;t know. In Brazil, certainly, at 18.


I however do not consider a 13 yr old a "child".

Well, I do. 13 year olds shouldn&#39;t have to work for a living, shouldn&#39;t go to jail, and shouldn&#39;t fight in an Army. When you lower your standards for one side, you end lowering them for all sides.


For all we know these girls could have volunteered without being recruited because of the life they would live in their village. Maybe they dont want to live in opression like that?

Yes, this is correct. If those kids are soldiers for the FARC it is because their options aren&#39;t any preferable. Being a worker in a coffee or coca plantation, or a beggar in Bogotá is also not something 13 yo should be subjected to.

Luís Henrique

violencia.Proletariat
5th January 2006, 23:19
Well, I do. 13 year olds shouldn&#39;t have to work for a living, shouldn&#39;t go to jail, and shouldn&#39;t fight in an Army. When you lower your standards for one side, you end lowering them for all sides.

What i ment by this was, people consider a child "stupid" or "doesnt know any better". I wasnt saying society should treat them as adults, but people shouldnt critcize them for making their own decisions when the situation is necessary (a poor girl deciding farc is her better option).

Nothing Human Is Alien
5th January 2006, 23:26
Look up the other thread on this from a few weeks ago.

In Colombia women are considered adults (by the bourgeois state) at age 12.

That&#39;s the legal age for consent there..

Most of them also are out of school and working some sort of job by then.. that is, unless they&#39;re campesinos (which most of those who join FARC are), in which case there&#39;s a good chance they&#39;ve never been to school.

Janus
5th January 2006, 23:30
What I&#39;ve mainly heard about FARC&#39;s inexperienced and child fighters goes along with what Guerrilero22 said. They mainly do noncombative work and are kept towards the rear until they gain enough experience. It&#39;s not like FARC forces young kids to fight like some of the African militias did.

Nothing Human Is Alien
5th January 2006, 23:37
In Colombia, I don&#39;t know. In Brazil, certainly, at 18.

The age of consent in Brazil is 14, no?

LuĂ­s Henrique
5th January 2006, 23:37
Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 11:37 PM
In Colombia women are considered adults (by the bourgeois state) at age 12.
More a reason that we should denounce this rotten polity.

Luís Henrique

LuĂ­s Henrique
5th January 2006, 23:46
Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 11:48 PM
The age of consent in Brazil is 14, no?
What do you call "age of consent"?

In Brazil, you can work and quit school, at 14. And marry, or do business - if your parents consent.

At 14, if you get laid by an adult, violence is no longer presumed - but the adult can still get into legal problems. If money is involved, this is jail for the adults that are caught at it.

You can vote at 16.

You can drive at 18, as well as do business and marry without parental authorisation.

You cannot go to jail under 18 (though some of the juvenile criminal institutions aren&#39;t much better).

You only can enlist into the army at 18.

I would say Brazilians are legally adults at 18, not before that.

Luís Henrique