Hoxha`s albania

[Reds]

Usualy when I hear of socialist albania I usualy get some cappie acount of a mad power hungry dictator or of a marxist-leninist utopia. what I am looking for is the true socialist albania I would like to hear an accont of life there from someone who lived in that era.

[Zeruzo]

In that era or in Albania during that era?

[Reds]

in albania during that era

[Zingu]

Well, what I do know is that Albania was an entirely self-sufficent country, able to support its entire populace without any outside trade or aid. But...thats doesn't make it anymore "revolutionary", maybe progressive, but definately not "Marxist".

[Janus]

Well, I've never lived in Albania but I have some knowledge of the country. Yes, Albania became economically self-sufficient under Hoxha. However, once Albania ended its isolation following the collapse of the communist party, people found out that Albania wasn't advanced nor really industrialized. The country was backward even by Eastern European standards. Living standards were so low that it caused the massove exodus of emigrants to neighboring countries in order to find jobs after the fall of the communist party. Hoxha was a firm Stalinist who repressed his fellow countrymen for 4 decades.

[visceroid]

one thing though, he attacked religion so fervourishly that even redstar2000 would be proud :P

[Janus]

Yes, he declared his nation to be an atheist one after he was partly inspired by the Chinese Cultural Revolution. Religious building were confiscated or destroyed and religious texts were banned.

A permanent remnant of Hoxha's legacy are the large number of gun emplacements built in Albania with some pointed against towns and villages.

[Jadan ja]

I read somewhere that people in Albania didnt know what telephone is (in 1980s).

[Janus]

They weren't that backward but the cost of living was so low that only the wealthy i.e. party leaders could afford them. I think that each village had one telephone but they were extremely obsolete, low quality models. Albania had the lowest telephone density in Europe, 1.4 units for every 100 inhabitants. it's estimated that Albania onlny had about 42,000 direct lines with 13,000 in the capital, Tirana.

[Hiero]

Yes, he declared his nation to be an atheist one after he was partly inspired by the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

I don't think he was inspired by the Cultural Revolution. Albania and China split due to theoritical differences. Mao thought that revolution would lead to revisionism if the people were not able to remove revisionist from power and influence, so he launched the Cultural Revolution. Hoxha however thought that revisionism could be stoped by being a better "Stalin". By ruling with purges and keeping a strong united party. So Mao seen Hoxha doing the same mistakes that Stalin did that lead to Krushchev. Thus Hoxha called Mao a revisionist as he didn't continue on with Stalin's form of leadership.

[Janus]

The Sino-Albanian split fully occured after Mao's death in 1978. I meant to say that Hoxha was partially influenced by the fervor with which the Cultural Revolution attacked religious centers. Hoxha had been bashing religion progressively since his rise to power but it was during this period that he took it to a higher level.

[Hiero]

I assumed the split was during Mao's time. I'm surprised that is that late. Though i have read from internet achives, Chinese criticism of Albania during Mao's time.

[Janus]

Yes, Albania-Chinese relations slowly deteriorated because of Hoxha and Mao's ideological differences. But the split finally occured as a result of Mao's death and the defeat of the Gang of Four in China. From then on, Hoxha criticized China even more because China began to lean toward the West. China then ended assistance programs to Albania in 1978.

[Scars]

A BRIEF HISTORY OF ALBANIA 1944-1991

Hoxha (pronounced ho (like in hostage)-ja, xh in Albanian is roughly an English j) was an Stalinist and an oppotunist who was willing to go along with whoever would help out Albania, but in a way that would not insult his dilusions of self-suffiency, nationalism, racism and xenophobia.

Initially Hoxha was a faithful Soviet puppet and he glorified and looked up to Stalin more than any of the other Soviet Satillites. For instance Albania was the only country in the world to continue to have many statues of Stalin erected in their country, including one in Tirane (the capital of Albania). Until his death Hoxha was never critical of Stalin or his line (unlike Mao, who criticised Stalin intensely following his death) and Albania was the only country that could be accurately described as Stalinist from its inception onwards.

After Stalins death, as we all know, Stalin was denounced and Albania (NOT China, as it is often incorrectly stated) was the first to denounce the USSR for doing so. In addition to this Albania criticised the USSR for restoring relations with Yugoslavia (who Hoxha hated and feared equally and Yugoslavia was the target of the majority of his venom and xenophobia) and for Khruschev's idea of 'specialisation of the Socialist Bloc' which would see Albania reduce its attempts at industrialisation and focus on agriculture (which, honestly, Albania is more suited to) which would then be sold to the USSR at a fixed price and the cash could then be used to buy manufactured goods etc. Hoxha saw this as the USSR attempting to turn Albania into a colony and he was still worried that the USSR would support Yugoslavias claims that Albania (as a Balkan nation) should be part of Yugoslavia (plus there were more ethnic Albanians in Yugoslavia than there were in Albania!).

But despite this Albania was still more than happy to take huge amounts of aid plus accept Soviet advisors and experts to assist them in their construction projects etc. However this came to an end once the Sino-Soviet split occured and Albania sided firmly with China. China could not provide as much aid as the USSR could and the goods that were sold and given to Albania were of a lower quality, plus the advisors who were sent were often not as well trained as the Soviet ones and there were also communication problems- it's harder for Albanians to learn Chinese than for them to learn Russian and vice versa.

Not much changed in Albania though, apart from them following China's foreign policy, yelling at people they disliked (Yugoslavia and the USSR mainly) and writing extremely tedious articles on the glorious achivements of the Albanian revolution. However things did change when the Cultural Revolution started in China. Albania followed suit with a similar programme, however Hoxha was unwilling for his cultural revolution to be as extreme as the Chinese one as this could weaken the PLA (Party of Labour of Albania, the ruling party) dominance over the Albanian population, and more importantly weaken Hoxha's dominance. So think of it as the state telling the population to do stuff en mass, the most striking example being his anti-religious campaign. Within 2 months every place of worship in Albania was closed and most of the buildings were converted to other uses- for instance gyms, cinemas and kindergartens. Preists and Clerics (Albania is about 80% Sunni Muslim and 20% Orthodox Christian) were imprisoned or executed and all religious practices were banned, with hard punishments dealt out for breaches. Hoxha then boasted that Albania was the first Atheist country in the world and that this was the greatest achivement of the Albanian revolution. This of course was a lie, religious practices continued underground and the Albanians in the mountains (the Ghegs, Hoxha was a Tosk who are from the lowlands) were often so isolated that these things simply passed them by, particularly if the local party members and cadres were religious themselves.

However by the last years of Mao's life behind closed doors things weren't as rosey. Hoxha was not a Maoist and his dogmatic nature meant that long term cooperation with the Chinese Maoists was not viable. The arguement was aboutthe nature of the Communist Party. One of the things that defines Maoism is the belief that contridictions between the masses continue to exist during Socialism and thus the class struggle will have to continue- hence the Cultural Revolution. This means that there will be Bourgeoise within the party itself, disguised as Communists but really trying to return the bourgeoise to power- hence the slogan 'bombard the party headquaters!'. Hoxha, being a Stalinist, did not agree with this. He said that the Bourgeoise could only exist within the party if the party allowed them to do so. If they did allow them then they are obviously a bourgeois in the first place. But Albania still needed China's assistance and aid, so these things were kept quiet and China and Albania continued to present themselves as a united front against the USSR and her allies.

Mao died in 1976 and with this did the enthusiasm for supporting Albania, who served little purpose. The new rulers of China did not believe that Albania was important fof China and thus slowly reduced their aid, prevoking the Sino-Albanian split in 1978, when 'Imperialism and the Revolution' was published in which Hoxha denounces Maoism as a revisionist offshoot and claims that Mao was not a Communist, but a 'progressive figure'. This results in the aid tap being turned off completely and Albania was forced to go it alone, without anyone to look after them.

Hoxha became more paranoid and erratic, believing Albania to be the last bastion of Socialism on the face of the earth he launched various plans that failed and Albania slowly circled the drain. Living standards decreased, as did industrial output as they could not get replacement parts for Chinese machinary. Most of the changes made during the Albanian Cultural Revolution were revoked and Albania returned to its Stalinist roots.

Albania did start to attempt to open up a bit to the rest of the world when it was clear that they could not support themselves, but by this time it was far too late. In 1985 Hoxha died after one final purge, inlcuding Mehmet Shehu- his oldest and closest ally. Hoxha had been grooming a successor, Ramiz Alia, for quite some time but Alia did exactly what it shouldn't have done- he started attempting to reform Albania to the point that it would not completely implode, ironically enough proving the Maoists completely correct.

In 1990 protests started in Tirane and thousands of people lined up to get passports (which were previously unavailable) in order to leave Albania. In addition thousands more fled over boarders into Greece and Yugoslavia, thanks to boarder controls being loosened. In 1991 the socialist regime collapsed and Albania has been a fucking mess ever since.

Albania was never self sufficent. It could feed itself (just), but other than that it was always highly dependent on a foreign protector, which is why it went into such a decline after the Sino-Albanian split. There was always trade with other countries, mainly China and North Korea and it always recieved aid from other countries (once again, mainly China and North Korea).

I've been facinated with Albania and Hoxha for quite a while and I've read pretty much every book available in English, plus a large hunk of Hoxha's writings (*groan*). There aren't any books about life in Albania by someone who lived there that I know of, however there may be in other languages. Probably Russian, Greek, Serbo-Croat or Italian. Books in Albanian are hard to get a hold of, particularly when you life in New Zealand like me. The best you'll probably get are travel diaries, which there are many, but most of them talk more about the Kanun of Lek and the problems with gjakmarrya ('blood fueds' or 'honour killings') than what life was like under Hoxha.

If you have any questions I'll do my best to answer them...

[Prairie Fire]

scars said:


However by the last years of Mao's life behind closed doors things weren't as rosey. Hoxha was not a Maoist and his dogmatic nature meant that long term cooperation with the Chinese Maoists was not viable. The arguement was aboutthe nature of the Communist Party. One of the things that defines Maoism is the belief that contridictions between the masses continue to exist during Socialism and thus the class struggle will have to continue- hence the Cultural Revolution. This means that there will be Bourgeoise within the party itself, disguised as Communists but really trying to return the bourgeoise to power- hence the slogan 'bombard the party headquaters!'. Hoxha, being a Stalinist, did not agree with this.

This wasn't the point of Ideological conflict between Hoxha and Mao, or at least it wasn't the main one. The main point of conflict was Mao's"theory of three worlds".
Mao claimed that the war was between the developed countries and the third world. In "Revolution and Imperialism" Hoxha outlines the flaws and anti-marxist nature of this theory.

In Marxism, there are only two worlds, or two camps as Stalin put it:
The world of the bourgeosie and the world of the proletariat.
By reducing class struggle to a fight between the developed world and the third world, Mao negates all proletarian struggles in the developed countries.

Also, Maos definition of the "third world" is entirely random. Countries like Pinochets Chile and Mobutus Zaire, although the were undeveloped and poor,
apparently are not part of this "Third world" that China allied themselves with at the time. Basically Maos concept of the thirdworld, is which ever countries Mao deemed thirdworld.

Hoxha saw this theory for the anti-marxist bullshit that it was, and decided he wanted no part in it.

[A.J.]

An old post off another forum.....

The Trade Unions of Albania

by Bill Bland

Even before the advent of the developed capitalist economy which
exists in Britain today, individual workers were find*ing their
ability to defend and improve their wages and working conditions
extremely limited.

Thus, trade unions came into existence as collective organisations of
workers, as essentially organs of working class struggle against the
employing class - a struggle which, from time to time, breaks out into
the open battles of the strike and the lockout.

Albania in the 1930s was rather similar to Britain in the 15th
century. Its society was semi-feudal. There were many small workshops,
but no large factories. The working class was tiny. Under the Zog
dictatorship (1924-39) and the occupation of the fascist powers
(1939-44), trade unions were banned. Consequently, workers'
organisations were eith*er local and clandestine, or were disguised as
"friendly societies". Strikes, of course, were also illegal, although
there were some notable examples - such as the oil-workers' strike in
Kuçova (now Stalin Town) in 1935.

Then came the War of National Liberation, led by the ' Communist Party
of Albania, founded in 1941; during its course, this became
transformed from a national struggle into a socialist revolution.
Thus, Liberation in November 1944 not only freed Albania from foreign
occupation, but also established a new society in which political
power lay in the hands of the working class. Then, still under the
leadership of the Communist Party (now the Party of Labour), the
working people proceeded to abolish the undeveloped capitalist society
and to construct a planned socialist economy.

As part of this process, trade unions came into exist*ence in Albania
for the first time on January 11 th, 1945.

From the outset these naturally had a somewhat different role to play
from the trade Unions in a capitalist coun*try. For here the working
people owned the factories, mines,etc. through the medium of a
state which they controlled. There was no employing class, living on
the unpaid labour of the workers and against which they had to
struggle for a more favourable division of the value they produced,
for better wages and conditions. With the abolition of the
ex*ploitation of man by man, workers in Socialist Albania re*ceive the
full value of the labour they perform - either di*rectly in wages, or
indirectly in social services. Thus, were the oil-workers, for
example, to go on strike for high*er wages, this demand could only be
met by raising the in*comes of the oil-workers arove the full value of
their lab*our, and reducing those of other sections of the working
class below the full value of their labour. In other words, the
oil-workers would be exploiting their fellow workers, Nevertheless, in
Socialist Albania the primary function of the trade unions remains to
defend and improve the wages and working conditions of their members.
The difference lies in how this function is carried out.

In a genuine socialist society, the only way in which the standard of
life of the working people as a whole can be improved is by the
advance of social production, by the im*provement of larour
productivity, by the introduction of new techniques and inventions.
Only rarely does this involve struggle against managanent, and this
occurs only when a management has become bureaucratic and is holding
back the developnent of production - and so of the standard of life of
the workers. It does, however, involve raising the soci*alist
political consciousness of the workers and this *under the leadership
of the Party of Labour - is a very important function of the Albanian
trade unions. They are, in Lenin's words:

" . . 'transmission belts' from the vanguard to the masses of the
advanced class. . a school of communism".

But the changed role of the trade unions in Socialist Albania in no
way signifies that they are impotent or under state control. On the
contrary, they are extremely powerful - a factory trade union branch,
for example, has the power to remove the factory director in a case
such as that touched upon in the last paragraph.

Each factory trade union branch signs an annual collective agreement
with management specifying wages and working conditions in detail for
each grade of worker; it is responsible for supervising the
application of the safety regulations applicable to the plant; it runs
the factory canteen and health centre, and its sports centre; it must
approve any disciplinary measure proposed by the management against a
worker (for such things as persistent lateness, absenteeism, damage to
equipnent resulting from negligence, etc.); it elects representatives
to the local council committees concerned with schools, health
centres, housing allocation, etc., relevant to its members and their
famil*ies.

All draft legislation relating to work must be approved by the trade
unions before being placed before the People's Assembly. They
participate in the drawing up of production plans at all levels -
including the national Five Year Plans. They organise competitions
between different fact*ories and districts to stimulate invention and
productivity (a process known as socialist emulation). And they run
holiday hotels for their members in the countryside, in the mountains
and by the sea, at which a fortnight's holiday costs about two day's pay.

Organisation

Until 1957 separate trade unions existed for the principal branches of
irrlustry. It was found, however, that in the conditions of Socialist
Albania this brought about unnecess*ary duplication of staff,
buildings, etc. In this year, therefore, the trade unions were
amalgamated into a single organisation - the Trade Unions of Albania
(TUA). This now has 610,000 members - almost 100% of the working
class. Menbers earning less than 450 leks a month pay dues of 1 lek
per month in dues, those earning between 450 and 700 leks pay 2 leks,
and those earning over 700 leks pay 3 leks.

The TUA holds a congress every four years - the last (the 9th.) having
been held in June 1982. It was attended by 2,000 delegates, of whom
37% were women. The congress elects a managing body called the General
Council, composed of 151 members, and the General Council in turn
elects a Presidium of 21 members and four comittees for various
sections of workers:

1)for industrial, mining and power workers;
2)for agricultural:
3)for building; and
4) for workers in distribution and culture.

Today, forty years after the socialist revolution, Albania has been
transformed from the most backward country in Europe into what is
socially the the most advanced country in the world.

It is at present the only country in the world to have a fully
centrally-planned socialist economy. This has brought about an
increase in industrial production in these forty years of 151 times,
in agricultural production of 5 times.

Unemployment, like illiteracy, has been eliminated, and the right to
work and to choose one's occupation is written into the Constitution.

In place of world-wide inflation, as production rises the prices of
consumer goods constantly falling, while wage levels rise.
To avoid the possibility of the creation of any privileged stratum,
income differentials are limited to 2:1 (in contrast to more than
6,000:1 in Britain).

There is a completely free and non-contributory health service.

Pensions too are non-contributory, and retirement pensions (fixed at
70% of last wages) are payable as young as 50 in some occupations.

Women have been to a great extent socially liberated, and now form 47%
of the work force. There is, of course, equal pay for equal work. A
constantly expanding network of restaurants, laundries and nursury
schools is freeing both men and women from many of the household tasks
which interfere with the living of a full social life.

And in all these developments, the Trade Unions of Albania have played
no insignificant role.

The Limitation of Wage Differentials

by Priamo Bollano

In socialist Albania the social product is distributed to the working
people according to their social contribution, according to the
quantity and quality of work which each performs, according to the
principle "equal pay for equal work", without discrimination as to
sex, age, nationality or race. Of course, wage categories are adjusted
to allow for the complexity and difficulty of the work performed and
the qualification of the worker. These categories are uniform
throughout the country.

This system stimulates inventiveness and production; it harmonises
individual personal interest with the general interests of society.

The Albanian system, however, rejects not only equalitarianism, but
also excessive differenials. The experience of the Soviet Union and
other former socialist countries has shown that unfounded excessive
differentials led to the transformation of this privileged stratum
into a new capitalist class which exploits the working class. It leads
in time to the restoration of an essentially capitalist society.

Applying the lessons of this experience, in Albania the difference
between the highest and lowest incomes in society as a whole is
limited to 2:1, that between the director and the workers of an
enterprise to 1.7:1.

[A.J.]

Communist demo in Albania 2005;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvf24UvNA0Y

Who's name are they chanting?

:)

[A.J.]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 01:07 PM


Who's name are they chanting?

:)
A small clue....


Not trotsky's.

[combat]

500 people at most, half of them being over 60. Nothing serious ;) .

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

500 people at most, half of them being over 60. Nothing serious :wink:.

But that's at least five times as many people as the LFI has in all its sections around the world.. so if it's nothing serious, what does that make your clique?

[combat]

You forget one point:
1 member of the LFI=50 Hoxjaistes and anarcho-stalinists. You have to use weights in order to compare.

[classwarveteran]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 03:23 PM
You forget one point:
1 member of the LFI=50 Hoxjaistes and anarcho-stalinists. You have to use weights in order to compare.
Combat, if we are to believe all your equations, you must be priceless. :lol:

If you and your cadre are so much more valuable than anybody else, where's the revolution? Hasn't happened because your cadre can't have a revolution without the workers, who are turned off by this sectarian nonsense!

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 03:23 PM
anarcho-stalinists
:lol:

[Joseph Ball]

People want to know what life was like in Hoxha's Albania. There are interesting statistics in the 2005 UN Human Development Report, Table 10 (downloadable online).



Albania
Life Expectancy, 1970-75, 67.7
Infant Mortality per 1000 1970, 68
Under 5 mortality per 1000, 1970, 82

Macedonia
Life Expectancy, 1970-75, 67.5
Infant Mortality per 1000, 1970, 85
Under 5 mortality per 1000, 1970, 120


Bosnia and Herzegovina
Life Expectancy1970-75, 67.5
Infant Mortality per 1000, 1970, 60
Under 5 mortality per 1000, 1970, 82

Bulgaria
Life Expectancy, 1970-75, 71
Infant Mortality per 1000, 1970, 28
Under 5 mortality per 1000, 1970, 32

Turkey
Life Expectancy,1970-75, 57
Infant Mortality per 1000, 1970, 150
Under 5 mortality per 1000, 1970, 201


If you look at table 7 you see that malnutrition was non-existent in Albania in 1990-2 when socialism had only just finished. By 2000-2002 6% were malnourished.

Yes, I know the European Soviet bloc countries did better in terms of these indicators than Albania but then they had Soviet help. Capitalist countries in the region benefited from Marshall Aid and the superprofits of imperialism. Yugoslavia received buckets of western aid but its poorer regions could not beat Albania in terms of these indicators. Albania did very well given its isolation (can China and North Korea really be given all the credit for Albania's economic survival given the geography of it?)

Hoxha was a great socialist, a great anti-Fascist and a great patriot. He went very over the top in his criticisms of Mao but I don't think this should lead to a sectarian refusal to give him credit where its due.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

You should link to the report when quoting from it.. here it is anyway: http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2005/pd...r05_summary.pdf (http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2005/pdf/hdr05_summary.pdf)

[Joseph Ball]

Thanks comrade. I have a lot of trouble doing links/quotes etc. Don't know if its a problem with my PC.

[Prairie Fire]

500 people at most, half of them being over 60. Nothing serious .

It's more than that. Comrade Combat, even if you are an anarchist, you should read the pamphlet entitled Albania: Labratory of subversion. It is widely distributed by anarchists I know; Still, it is a good account of what has been happening in Albania, ever since "freedom and democracy" were restored under the ruthless butcher Sali Berisha.
You can download it in PDF at www.anti-politics.net

Also, the PKSH used to have a photo gallery of the various insurrections against capitalism in albania. For somereason ,their website isn't working anymore.

By the way, what is an anarcho-Stalinist? The two terms are in contradiction.
I'm laughing just thinking about it.

Yes, comrade AJ, comrade Bill Bland was a good friend of Albania and the Labour party of Albania, not unlike comrade Hardial Baines of Canada.
Also, kudos of the pro-hoxha demo footage. That was awesome.


Righ tnow, I'm in the process of translating a copy of "Revolution and Imperialism"
by Enver Hoxha, because all of the translation available on the internet are horrible. I hope to soon make it available for anyone who wants a copy.

[combat]

By the way, what is an anarcho-Stalinist? The two terms are in contradiction.

They are not as at the end of the day both stalinism and anarchism are reformist and counter revolutionary. The form might change, but the result is the same.
I am a marxist..that is a trotskyst.

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2006, 05:22 PM
You forget one point:
1 member of the LFI=50 Hoxjaistes and anarcho-stalinists. You have to use weights in order to compare.
http://static.flickr.com/47/136908978_79c30ed4e0_o.jpg
One Jedi is worth 100 Geonosian warriors!

[Messiah]

Yes, I'm glad the party beurocrats can agree that the people are counter-revoltuionary. How very progressive of you!

Some still needs to define what the hell a "anarcho-stalinist" is!? Quit making up terms.

[Wanted Man]

Anarchism != "the people"

[An archist]

how is anarchism counter-revolutionary?

[Prairie Fire]

Anarchism and Communism are both different kinds of socialism;
the major difference being, Communism revolves around the masses, while anarchism revolves around the individual. This seems to be a paradox to me;
Any system that revolves around an individual rather than the mass is not socialism in my book.

check out this link for a more thorough analysis:

Anarchism or Socialism (http://www.marx2mao.com/Stalin/AS07.html)

[cmdrdeathguts]

Originally posted by classwarveteran+October 16, 2006 06:06 pm--> (classwarveteran @ October 16, 2006 06:06 pm)
[email protected]ct 16 2006, 03:23 PM
You forget one point:
1 member of the LFI=50 Hoxjaistes and anarcho-stalinists. You have to use weights in order to compare.
Combat, if we are to believe all your equations, you must be priceless. :lol:

If you and your cadre are so much more valuable than anybody else, where's the revolution? Hasn't happened because your cadre can't have a revolution without the workers, who are turned off by this sectarian nonsense! [/b]
well, 100 LFIs x 50 = 5000. so, still not enough for a revolution. But doing better than the Hoxhaites!

and he's right about the age thing, you rarely get serious Hoxhaites this side of a bus-pass. whereas the LFI have been courting the youth to the point of pederasty!

[cmdrdeathguts]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 07:11 am
Yes, I'm glad the party beurocrats can agree that the people are counter-revoltuionary. How very progressive of you!

Some still needs to define what the hell a "anarcho-stalinist" is!? Quit making up terms.
isn't it what people call that subspecies of Maoist with a hard-on the size of Mars for the Cultural Revolution? also, there are certain homologies between Makhno and Stalin. but not really anyone else.

[Prairie Fire]

cmdrdeathguts:

quit saying "Hoxhaites", you donkey raping trot! Hoxaist, or Marxist-Leninist is preferable.

He he, the LFI courts the youth, because any mature and scientific Communist won't give them the time of day. Neo-Nazi skin heads have a lot of youth recruits too, what's you're point?

Anyways, I know several Hoxhaists, between the ages of 15-30. When I go to Albania, I will meet a thousand more.

what exactly are these homologies between Mahkno and Stalin? This ought to be good...

[kaaos_af]

Hoxha is popular there because the current system is shit. Doesn't mean they like him though or have read his books (which ramble on forever)

[Prairie Fire]

So, by default, you do admit that the current system is worse than "Hoxhaite" Albania? If so, we have some common ground.

Actually, the same can be said for pretty much every former socialist country. Hell, even Cambodia is worse now then it ever was under pol pot.


So which of Hoxhas books have you read, Kaaos_af? "Revolution and imperialism"? "The Titoites"? "The Kruschevites"? "The superpowers?" "With Stalin"? What exactly have you read by Hoxha, out of curiosity?

I have never seen Hoxha guilty of rambling; His books are a very scientific analysis of the conditions at the time. Maybe it just seems that way to you, because you are an anarchist, and therefore have the attention span of a humming bird for anything doesn't involve getting wasted/ stoned and wrecking shit.

[kaaos_af]

I can't remember, it was ages ago when I was in a M//L group myself.

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2006 02:34 am
you donkey raping trot!

Maybe it just seems that way to you, because you are an anarchist, and therefore have the attention span of a humming bird for anything doesn't involve getting wasted/ stoned and wrecking shit.
Heh, you're my new hero.

[Prairie Fire]

cmdrdeathguts: So, exactly what are those homologies between Mahkno and Stalin? I'm listening...


matthijis: I'm not just insulting revisionists for the sake of insulting revisionists.
In this case, cmdrdeathguts used a pejorative term against all Hoxaists. When ever people label me or attack Stalin, that qualifies them as a donkey raper in my book. You don't want to be insulted, don't throw insults.