Munich

[Noah]

Hey guys,

Steven S has made a movie about Palestinian fighters or something along the lines of this anyway...It's called 'Munich'

I have hear however, that it is very 'pro-Israel' and is very contraversial, so if anyone gets it early...fill me/us in. :)

Noah.

[Monty Cantsin]

I havent seen it but i've heard people attack it for being sympathetic to terrorists.

[timbaly]

I haven't seen it either but it really isn't about Palestinian fighters as much as it is about the Israeli government hunting down those responsible for the terrorist attacks at the 1972 Mucnich Summer Olympic games.

[WUOrevolt]

I saw it, it was about the Israeli response to Munich as Israeli agents hunted and killed some of eleven people who were who were on the list of the Israeli government for assisination because they were involved in the formation of Black September and the Munich massacre. Steven Spielberg is, if I am not mistaken anti-Israel and some have claimed it to be very biased against Israel.

[Janus]

What? :huh: Steven Spielberg is Jewish and he's anti-Israeli? I haven't seen the movie but I thought that the movie would be somwhat biased towards the Israeli side. After all, it's basically about Israeli state terrorism, which was unjustified since Operation Wrath of God went after insignificant Palestinians militants walking around unguarded in Europe. The Mossad agents even mistakenly killed an innoncent man and some agents were arrested for a failed assassination.

[BuyOurEverything]

Ya, totally man, Israel is just oppressing Palestinians' right to massacre athletes. State terrorism! Or something...

[CCCPneubauten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2006, 04:13 AM
Ya, totally man, Israel is just oppressing Palestinians' right to massacre athletes. State terrorism! Or something...
:D That's what I always think.

But some one needs to SEE it (the movie) before they shoot their mouth off...

[WUOrevolt]

My history teacher told me that Spielberg is Jewish and Anti-Israel.

The movie kinda portrays that they were interested in revenge while Israel says it was more interested in preventing another Munich massacre.

[Janus]

Well, I was totally unaware that Spielberg was anti-Israeli. Maybe opposed to some of Israel's policies but not actually opposed to the state itself.

The people whom Israel eliminated in the Wrath of God operation were not key decision makers or leaders. Most of them were simply liasons or representatives who were living unprotected in Europe. Supposedly, only one of the victims could actually be connected to the 1972 Munich incident. On the other hand, one of the individuals killed was innoncent. Therefore this whole operation was vital or even necessary, it was simply state sponsored terrorism. Did the Israelis think that they could scare the Palestinians by killing a couple of them? The strange part with the whole operation is that two of the kidnappers are still alive (Mohammed Safady's condition is debatable) but Jamal Al-Gashey briefly came out of hiding in 1999 to be interviewed for the documentary One Day In September.

[BuyOurEverything]

Well, it just didn't fit with my schema that a Jewish person could be anti-Israeli

You're a fucking idiot. You could have written the most brilliant political analysis and it still would have been discredited by that.

Either way, who gives a shit if they were 'major decision makers'? If you're involved in an orginization which kidnapps and murders athletes, that's not a defense.

[dso79]

I agree with Comrade Qiu that the Israeli operation was state terrorism. Of course the hostage taking was wrong, and Israeli authorities had the right to arrest the perpetrators and put them on trial. They had no right, however, to summarily execute anyone they suspected of involvement, without any sort of trial.

Operation Wrath of God killed some Palestinian officials who had nothing to do with the Munich massacre or other acts of terrorism, as well as an innocent civilian. Their methods, including public shootings and car bombs, endangered and terrorized innocent people. That sounds a lot like terrorism to me.


Either way, who gives a shit if they were 'major decision makers'?

You’re right; even if they were ‘major decision makers’ I still wouldn’t want any foreign death squads terrorizing my country.

[Janus]

You're a fucking idiot. You could have written the most brilliant political analysis and it still would have been discredited by that.

Calm down, I simply meant that I thought it was strange that Spielberg was actually anti-Israeli. I was referring to Spielberg not Jews in general. I have never known any anti-Israeli Jews but I know that they must exist. Sorry if that offended you but I don't understand why you have to get into an uproar about it.


Either way, who gives a shit if they were 'major decision makers'? If you're involved in an orginization which kidnapps and murders athletes, that's not a defense.

I never said that it was a defense or that terrorism is in any way acceptable. I just felt that Israel could've come with an alternative solution to this rather than just send out hit teams against Palestinians who were insignificant in matters of operation planning. This is what they justified it through and which they later admitted was wrong since they only killed one man related to the incident. Let me ask you a question: would you like hit squads running around your neighborhood who could perhaps mistake you for one of the people they're hunting? I'm sure Ahmed Bouchiki woouldn't have wanted it.

[Maynard]

anti-Israeli Jews Noam Chomsky? Norm Finkelstein? Tanya Reinhart? Norton Mezvinsky? Israel Shahak? Among many others. I don't think Spielberg is, though.

[BuyOurEverything]

Calm down, I simply meant that I thought it was strange that Spielberg was actually anti-Israeli. I was referring to Spielberg not Jews in general.

Well that's not what you said. Oh wait, it is what you said now that you edited your post.


but I know that they must exist

Didn't you just say that you couldn't comprehend them existing?


Sorry if that offended you but I don't understand why you have to get into an uproar about it.


Because it's absurd. Plus, you obviously have very negative feelings toward Israel, thus the fact that you believe all Jews are pro-Israel leads me to believe that you are anti-semetic.


I never said that it was a defense or that terrorism is in any way acceptable. I just felt that Israel could've come with an alternative solution to this rather than just send out hit teams against Palestinians who were insignificant in matters of operation planning. This is what they justified it through and which they later admitted was wrong since they only killed one man related to the incident. Let me ask you a question: would you like hit squads running around your neighborhood who could perhaps mistake you for one of the people they're hunting? I'm sure Ahmed Bouchiki woouldn't have wanted it.

Granted, it was probably not the best way to go about doing it, but it was hardly an injustice. Yes I agree with you that Israel's government and military (as well as every other government and military) doesn't care too much about killing innocent people. However, in theory there is nothing wrong with executing people who engage in this type of behaviour, and making this out to be some sort of major injustice against oppressed people is ridiculous. It may have been incompetance, but not much else.

[Monty Cantsin]

BuyOurEverything don’t worry so much Comrade Qiu made an error in judgment or simply a typo. I’m sure in the future he will not tar all Jews with the same brush.

[Janus]

Well that's not what you said. Oh wait, it is what you said now that you edited your post.

Okay, I admit my lack of judgement at the time of my posting. Therefore, I decided it was best for me to edit my somewhat prejudiced and stereotypical statement.


Didn't you just say that you couldn't comprehend them existing?
I was originally thinking about Spielberg. Sorry if you thought that it meant Jewish people in general.


Because it's absurd. Plus, you obviously have very negative feelings toward Israel, thus the fact that you believe all Jews are pro-Israel leads me to believe that you are anti-semetic.

Okay, now it's you who is making erroneous judgements. I am not anti-Israel and I'm definitely not anti-Semitic. I just don't think that the Isreali policy of terminating Palestinian militants was a very good decision. I acknowledge the fact that I oversimplified Jewish thoughts about Israel but you also took that too far by thinking that I was anti-Semitic.

I hope we can put this arguement behind us and get back to the actual topic of this thread.

[BuyOurEverything]

OK, if it was an honest mistake, then that's fine. However, I just have a hard time believing that the views you put forth were a simple 'typo' or whatever. You seem to have changed your views entirely on the subject and I'm having a difficult time believing your sincerity (especially when you say you are not anti-Israel). However, I see that speculation is pointless and I will form my views on your opinions based on your posts from now on.

[redstar2000]

An extremely hostile review of Munich from a very angry Arab...

Spielberg on Munich: the humanization of Israeli killers; dehumanization of Palestinian civilians (http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2005/12/62677.html)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[WUOrevolt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 03:33 AM

anti-Israeli Jews Noam Chomsky? Norm Finkelstein? Tanya Reinhart? Norton Mezvinsky? Israel Shahak? Among many others. I don't think Spielberg is, though.
Isn't Chomsky an atheist?

[Delirium]

Originally posted by leftistmarleyist+Jan 11 2006, 02:25 AM--> (leftistmarleyist @ Jan 11 2006, 02:25 AM)
[email protected] 6 2006, 03:33 AM

anti-Israeli Jews Noam Chomsky? Norm Finkelstein? Tanya Reinhart? Norton Mezvinsky? Israel Shahak? Among many others. I don't think Spielberg is, though.
Isn't Chomsky an atheist? [/b]
There are both ethnic and religious jews to remind you.