Could Canada be an ideal socialist country?

[commie anarchist rebel]

hey people just wonderin this. personaly i think canada's made 1 break through free fuckin health care. hey at least its a step towards helping the peoples needs. so just wana kno wat do u think

[CCCPneubauten]

Not to be a grammar cop...but it would be nice to try to use better English, unless it isn't your first language..if that is the case, I am sorry.

[LA GUERRA OLVIDADA]

Grammar*

[commie anarchist rebel]

srry im bad at grammar and spelling when im in a hurry

[Bannockburn]

Well the health care system isn't great. In ontario for example, there is a large private sector where the public sector won't cover. Wait times can take up a year, etc, etc.

[commie anarchist rebel]

true its not perfect but its a start. at least its somewhat better than the usa's healthcare system. but the initial question was could canada be an ideal socialist county. the heath care question is only secondary

[ComradeOm]

Canada is in no way a socialist nation. Not even close. This "free healthcare" seems to be the same system that Europeans have been enjoying for decades. It’s a slightly more humane form of capitalism but the poor are still getting shafted.

Now I don’t claim to know exactly what socialist society will look like but there are two obvious features to it.

1) The overthrow of the bourgeois state and the installation of a proletarian state… in whatever form. In socialism the workers call the shots.

2) The socialisation of the means of production. Once we’ve gotten the capitalists out of power it is necessary for the workers to take control of their workplaces. I expect to see the emergence of worker committees etc.

[Ligeia]

Personally,I believe that a ideal socialist country (if its in countries like Canada)can only come to development if the majority of people tend to socialist thoughts,if they really believe in it and so on....If the majority doesnt and is far from doing that than I would say no... but if the minority finds a good way to convince them and the majority is capable for it...who knows but in today´s western societies it is still hard to convince people.

[Enragé]

Originally posted by commie anarchist [email protected] 2 2006, 04:02 AM
hey people just wonderin this. personaly i think canada's made 1 break through free fuckin health care. hey at least its a step towards helping the peoples needs. so just wana kno wat do u think
wait a couple of years

free healthcare cannot survive in a capitalist nation, a capitalist world. Same goes for all reasonable welfare...why do you think reformists always fail? ;)

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2006, 02:10 PM
wait a couple of years

free healthcare cannot survive in a capitalist nation, a capitalist world. Same goes for all reasonable welfare...why do you think reformists always fail? ;)
The welfare state has existed in Britain since 1945 and, despite the best efforts of both Thatcher and Blair, shows no serious signs of failure. The same applies to most of Europe. The reformists have clearly not failed.

I agree that ultimatly the welfare state is doomed but it will take a drastic change in the global economy over a series of years to achieve that.

[Red Leader]

hey people just wonderin this. personaly i think canada's made 1 break through free fuckin health care. hey at least its a step towards helping the peoples needs. so just wana kno wat do u think

OK. Let me clear something up for you. Your talking as if health care is a RECENT breakthrough. Lester Pearson and the other provinces agreed to the creation of a national medicare program in 1968. Since then, Canada has taken steps backwards, with cries for more privatized health care clinics. And right now, most services aren't even free. Eye Clinics, Dental Clinics, all that costs money unless your insurance doesnt cover some of it, and if not good luck. Canada is in NO way a socialist country. it is just spiraling inwards to become another United States. It is just giving in to the capitalist machine, seemingly that coorporations and businesses are having more and more say then the government itself.

[Enragé]

Originally posted by ComradeOm+Jan 2 2006, 03:06 PM--> (ComradeOm @ Jan 2 2006, 03:06 PM)
[email protected] 2 2006, 02:10 PM
wait a couple of years

free healthcare cannot survive in a capitalist nation, a capitalist world. Same goes for all reasonable welfare...why do you think reformists always fail? ;)
The welfare state has existed in Britain since 1945 and, despite the best efforts of both Thatcher and Blair, shows no serious signs of failure. The same applies to most of Europe. The reformists have clearly not failed.

[/b]
there is no such thing as a fixed welfare system, there are periods in which spending increases...and then when they realises it fucks up the position on the global market they reduce spending, and when ordinary people start to notice that they start striking, protesting, and then spending will increase again

over and over again

[bezdomni]

Canada's healthcare system has been becoming worse and worse in the last decade. The government has drastically cut funds and partially privatized the public healthcare system in Canada.

The reason the healthcare system in Canada is not socialist is because it is not publically owned or operated. It is controlled by the bourgeois democratic government and would be no different than if the US decided to make healthcare "free".

In a capitalist nation, reforms such as free healthcare and welfare are not accomplishments by the workers or for the workers. They are merely done by the existing bourgeois power structure in order to slow down the workers struggle. This is the difference between bourgeois reformism and proletarian revolutionism.

The needs of the people will only be met when the people, not the bourgeois corporations, are able to control society. This does not exist in Canada, therefore, it would be incorrect to consider them socialist.

[commie anarchist rebel]

k i dont think ure getting this question wat im saying is could canada make a good socialist country aferter the revolution becauz of its small population. ingnore the health care bit for the moment its not perfect and could be set up to meet the people's needs latter on.

[Red Leader]

k i dont think ure getting this question wat im saying is could canada make a good socialist country aferter the revolution becauz of its small population. ingnore the health care bit for the moment its not perfect and could be set up to meet the people's needs latter on.

I dont see how having a small population has anything to do with success after a revolution. Canada has a population of 32 million, which isn't THAT small, but regardless, it makes no difference. Canada is more like the USA when it comes to pretty much everything, so you might as well be asking if america will make a good country after a revolution.

Personaly, i dont think a revolution in a country like canada will even happen. Revolutions happen in dire times, when people are so out of luck tehy resort to anything. Canada is one of the most stable nations on the planet and shows no signs of falling apart. America on the other hand...

But im a little confused as to what your asking anyway. Lets pretend there was a magical revolution in Canada. Are you asking if it would be a good country afterwards? I think so yes but isn't that a given with a socialist revolution? A drastic change means for the better. So if a revolution occurs and is succesful then yeah, any socialist country after a socialist revolution would be a success. But I do NOT think this is possible, even if there was an attempt at a socialist uprising, we are sitting right beside the world's most powerful anti-communist nation. I highly doubt as a country canada will get any more "socialist" then it is now.

[commie anarchist rebel]

k fuck this stupid thread. as much as i like critisism im sick and tird i reget ever making this thread. i didnt think id be critisized for my idea's. i just thought there could be a way. and in wat way or we like the usa in almost everything

[James]

Well you were "asking for it".
Your use of the english language.
And also your initial question - "ideal socialist country".

You shall find that all the members of this board, whilst are in "solidarity", are also in disagrement as to what constitutes an "ideal socialist country". Indeed, even the term socialism is a point of conflict.

[commie anarchist rebel]

k thats the first the ive heard in this whole form that makes sense

[James]

You are most welcome.
:)