Cuba: Non-socialists/capitalist candidates banned?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Is it correct that non-socialists and/or capitalists cannot be elected?

Cuba's constitution, article 62:
"None of the freedoms which are recognized for citizens can be exercised contrary to what is established in the Constitution and by law, or contrary to the existence and objectives of the socialist state, or contrary to the decision of the Cuban people to build socialism and communism. Violations of this principle can be punished by law."

A person, who is actually a moderate Castro supporter who also in many ways support the current system, and who has family in Cuba, and has lived on the island for about 3 years (he has probably gone back to Cuba to live there a year or two by now), told me that the elections in Cuba is a bluff and everyone in Cuba knows it. He is a "common sense, down to earth" guy. He manage to seperate fact from fiction, and is even sometimes accused of being a brainwashed communist. He says politics in general and the political landscape is being decided by leading politicians, and only those politicians who agree in the guiding principles, are elected. If they go against these, they are not going to get nominated.

If the change their view and go outside of the guiding principles they are first asked if they want to step down voluntarily, or being removed under other excuses, and they know it is useless not to follow Castro's direct recommendation.


He also talked about how a cousin of a friend of his was visited by the police and asked her why she had not participated in the elections.

He says Paya, who is leader of the opposition group Varela Project, can never run for elections.

But he also says that Castro does not have complete power in the government, and that his proposals and wishes sometimes have been rejected.

He is very clear about this. The elections are a bluff.

[Body Count]

While I am not in the position to speak on whether or not Cuba is even socialist or not in the first place, I really don't have a problem with capitalist candidates being banned.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I really don't have a problem with capitalist candidates being banned.

The question is... Is it true that non-socialists and/or capitalists cannot be elected?

[Enragé]

also...can socialists who do not follow the guiding principles be elected?

anyway what are those guiding principles exactly?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

By guiding principles I think he meant the status quo. He may also have meant "guiding principles" as in support of the current revolutionary leaders, the economic system of Cuba, etc.

[The Red Scare]

A couple years ago there was a nation-wide referendum that was passed by the overwhelming majority of Cubans that 'solidified' socialism in the Constitution. It made it so groups that espouse a return to capitalism are banned from running in elections. But you don't have to be a Communist to run in elections...in fact 15% of elected officials in government are not associated with the Communist Party. And no party, including the Communist Party, is allowed to campaign for candidates. Candidates are instead chosen through discussions in various workers' councils and community groups (such as the Committees for the Defense of the Revolution)

[Karl Marx's Camel]

.in fact 15% of elected officials in government are not associated with the Communist Party

But still only socialists or communists can stand for election?

[The Red Scare]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 04:14 PM

.in fact 15% of elected officials in government are not associated with the Communist Party

But still only socialists or communists can stand for election?
Basically, yes. You cannot advocate capitalism. But you can advocate a range of socialist and communist platforms.

[LA GUERRA OLVIDADA]

There's more difference in the Communist Party of Cuba than there is between American Democrats and Republicans.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Basically, yes. You cannot advocate capitalism. But you can advocate a range of socialist and communist platforms.

So if the people are growing tired of the status quo like in the USSR, the people have no choice in the elections?

And as far as I understand, votes are counted by the Young Pioneers, which is something like a Communist Youth thing... If they counted the ballots during the vote on the constitution, and if people are visited by police if they do not vote, how can we call that reliable? How is that not very close to an election sham?


For some reason I doubt that libertarian socialists or communists would be allowed to stand for election if they were opponents of Fidel and the other revolutionaires.

[Enragé]

^^ what he said

[Manack]

In theory anyone can stand for election if they have community support. The elections are reasonably transparent and legitimate. Cuba has quite a good representative system on paper.

In practice the CDRs ensure that no one too radical gets to express their views publically and will harrass any attempts at organising real opposition or debate to the status quo.

Outside of the touristy areas I found that I felt like I was being watched by the CDR. So I am sure dissidents would feel considerable pressure.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

First, let me tell you that you're really asking the wrong questions. When you run as a representative, you don't run on a 'platform'. There is no 'issue campaigning'.

Anyone can stand for election; and the Cuban Communist Party cannot interfere in anyway in the elections, as per the constitution.

You first have to be nominated by fellow Cubans, then you can stand for election. There is no campaign. A biography of you and your picture are posted at places with heavy traffic (like barbershops and grocery stores), and people place their votes based what you have done, what kind of a revolutionary you have been, how much you have been committed to the revolution.

People who want to vote for the return of capitalism are encouraged by the 'dissidents' to spoil their ballots, and a few do.. but it's always a very small percentage; and it's been getting even smaller every election.

The Young Pioneers count the votes at each polling station out in the open, infront of everyone that wants to watch them be counted.

"Dissidents", which are almost always part of a U.S. funded group are confronted by large groups of regular Cubans any time they try to demonstrate against the revolution.

The reality is, a large majority of Cubans support the revolution and don't wan't these people to be able to slander it and try to overthrow it.

Also, let me make it clear that while the elections in Cuba are very democratic, they're only a small part of the democratic nature of the revolution. The Cuban people truly are involved in every aspect of the revolution.

I've visited Cuba a few times (never spent a minute in the tourist areas), and lived and worked there, and I never felt like 'I was being watched' by the CDR. It was alot more relaxed than the police state atmosphere I felt when I lived in New York.

Of course, they are vigilant; and as they should, and must be! A simple review of the Cuban revolution and its relationship with the colossus to the North can tell you why.

[Enragé]

i think the best thing anyone can really do is just go...go to cuba and see things with your own eyes, you cant trust castroists really, nor can you trust CNN

[Severian]

Leaders of the government and Communist Party have repeatedly, publicly said that dissidents could run in the elections, if the people who show up to the open neighborhood nominating meetings choose them as candidates.

So far, no dissident or opposition activist has attempted to test this. That is, they refuse to run in the elections, or attempt it. As CdeL says, they call on people to cast blank or spoiled ballots...with limited success. Less than 4% did so in the 2003 elections. (http://www.granma.cu/ingles/enero03/mar21/elecciones.html)

Associated Press (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/04/18/international/i203715D67.DTL) reports that "Under Cuba's one-party system, municipal, provincial and national representatives are elected by citizens on a local level. Anyone can be nominated to these posts, including nonmembers of the island's ruling communist party — the only one recognized in Cuba's constitution."

Emphasis added, since AP buried that fact in the middle of a paragraph, bracketed by redundant references to the "one-party system".

When the Cuban electoral system was first set up, there was a prohibition against people who were candidates in the Batista-era elections, according to Marta Harnecker's book "Cuba: Dictatorship or Democracy?". That's apparently no longer in effect, probably considered unnecessary.

[CubaSocialista]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 05:56 PM

I really don't have a problem with capitalist candidates being banned.

The question is... Is it true that non-socialists and/or capitalists cannot be elected?
In the US, non-capitalists and communists can never be elected. And, if we look at the Diebold-Bush connection, we see the US elections are bluffs. And, Bush himself exercises similar amounts of power, extending the Patriot Act despite "Congress"


It would be hypocritical to criticize Cuba as a dictatorship if they actually count the votes, and ordinary people can be elected (only white males here!) while the US is dancing around its constitution, which is in itself as much of a sham as constitutions are in military dictatorships.

[LA GUERRA OLVIDADA]

White males? There are many black congressman and senators and whatnot.

[BuyOurEverything]

Cuba's constitution, article 62:
"None of the freedoms which are recognized for citizens can be exercised contrary to what is established in the Constitution and by law, or contrary to the existence and objectives of the socialist state, or contrary to the decision of the Cuban people to build socialism and communism. Violations of this principle can be punished by law."


Is that their current constitution?

[KC]

Yes.

[BuyOurEverything]

I was under the impression that they had altered their consitution to remove any reference to the fact that it was a 'communist state' sometime after the collapse of the Soviet Union. I guess I was misinformed, is there a link to a reliable page with their current constitution?

Also, there are very very few countries where parties with platforms seriously differing from the mainstream political views are actually able to win elections. In certain countries this is accomplished in different ways. Obviously in a small broke island with the worlds richest most powerful country a few miles away constantly trying to overthrow the government this will be accomplished in different ways than it would in a more stable rich country.

[Severian]

English-language text of Cuban constitution, on Cuban government site (http://www.cubaminrex.cu/english/Look_Cuba/The%20Island/Constitution%20of%20the%20Republic%20of%20Cuba.htm )

[RedJacobin]

Originally posted by LA GUERRA [email protected] 3 2006, 02:20 AM
White males? There are many black congressman and senators and whatnot.
Correction: there's 1 Black senator. Also, 2 Latino senators and 1 Asian senator.

The US Senate is still very much a white man's club.