World Consciousness

[TheEndOfMan]

There is a lot of talk on this site about change. E.g. "we have to change the western world's view of Iraq and make them realise the real reasons behind this war etc".

But personally I believe that much more needs to be done than simply changing people's views on individual problems in our society. We need to change world consciousness. At present world consciousness revolves around materialistic obsessions like consumerism and monetarism. For too long now money and progress have taken precedence over life.

Talk of a revolution has been going on for many, many years. But yet I see no evidence of this revolution.

During the 70's the acid freaks thought they had discovered a new plain of consciousness and that the revolution had begun. Tim Leary and many like him talked of such things. But the majority of people who thought this revolution was possible soon realised it was just a canvas for a wasted life and a few bad acid flashbacks.

History shows us many, many attempts at a change of world consciousness. But all on the relatively small scale. Ghandi, Che and other great socialist "revolutionaries" achieved some form of liberation. But to what extent? Sure they succeeded in their country or in many cases in various countries... In fact people like Che acted as a sort of symbol for socialists everywhere. But still where is this revolution so many people have been talking about??

Still thousands of upon thousands of men, women and children die every single day from poverty. And yet the IMF makes enough money every day to pay back all third world dept! World super powers declare war on third world countries just so that their economy can receive a bit of a boost. People are shot daily by drug sickened men needing sum quick cash to get another fix. Yet the drug trade is aided by the victim's "democratically" elected Government. Corporate criminals get away with stealing millions upon millions of dollars from hard working mum's and dads while two blocks away a teenager is sent to jail for stealing $500 worth of clothes. Where is the sanity?? And where is this revolution?

But I bet your saying "there is proof, look at the millions of people who rallied against a war in Iraq". And you’re right... There is evidence of a change of world consciousness.. And it has to start somewhere.. Why not with the anti war movement.. But I still say more needs to be done.. We have to stop thinking that we can change the world by protesting against wars. We have to change world consciousness as a whole! We have to make people understand the true meanings of life. Love, compassion, enjoying our natural environment. We have to destroy this consumeristic bullshit! But how? How do we make this revolution possible? How do we succeed where so many others have failed? Well I honestly can't tell you. But I know it won't happen in your lifetime or mine. So I guess we just have to look to the future. The generations to follow must not make the same mistakes we are making now. We must educate today's children that there is an alternative to consumerism, there is an alternative to greed. We must educate tomorrow's world leaders. For if not, this world will surely fall to the hands of capitalism, to the hands of hate, greed and true evil.

[ChiTown Lady]

There is an answer TheEndOfMan, but the answer lies in educating, and also convincing the masses that the path they are following is the wrong path. What makes this more and more difficult is the fact that there has been put a different kind of burden on “the people” who would otherwise be in a position to protest what is goin’ down these days. There is no longer the security of any type of long term pension plan from your employer (company/corporation anymore – rather, there is the expectation that you work long and hard hours towards the capital gain of the corporation (or risk losing everything), while at the same time planning and paying into your own retirement fund (with no pension plans as it was a custom for companies to offer employees – not too long ago).

People seem to be running scared – from my perspective (from what I see). People seem to be scared to death to say what’s on their minds – be it in the private sector, in the corporate sector, or where ever – and part of it is because of the power that has been given to the FBI regarding information that could be collected on them, and also this government agency here in the US called OFAC. OFAC stands for the Office of Foreign Assets Control, a part of the Treasury Department. OFAC can cut off ALL of your income and assets in the US by putting your name on their “target list – or – black list” even if you are just suspected of being subversive against the US Government, ------ as a result of being blacklisted for suspicion of any subversion against the government if the US you can have ALL assets from any and all US payroll’s, banks or what ever totally frozen and cut off to you – no matter how long or hard you have worked to attain these assets. ------ And I want to stress that this can happen as a result of suspicion of whatever (NOT conviction of any crime).

OFAC (sites to find out about that specifically):

Description of what OFAC is:

http://www.sword-group.com/eng/offerings/c...ompnt_ofac.html (http://www.sword-group.com/eng/offerings/compnt_ofac.html)

The "blacklisted" parties (this list appears to be updated "almost" daily):

http://www.bankersonline.com/ofac/

Cuba specific data regarding OFAC:

http://www.cubanonet.com/ofac.html

But it goes way beyond that. There are those here who have obviously been brainwashed by the oppressors into thinking that what they are up to is for the good of and the benefit of the “people” – even though it is not, and there are those others who know it is not good, but are way to afraid to speak out against it. The few who have the foresight to know that the shit goin’ down here is not a good thing and also have the guts to say it out loud are definitely in the minority, so this is the primary reason why any revolution to a greater moral and/or humanitarian end is very difficult if not impossible to realize.

Brainwashing and fear are the 2 most real factors working against such an end. This is the real enemy of the truth, in my opinion.

[ChiTown Lady]

Then there are those who are living lives that I could not even imagine, because I personally have never been faced with this situation ---- but for those, they must certainly have all they can do to survive. They are thinking more in terms of survival than any kind of revolution, even though it may be true that revolting against the powers that be may bring some sort of change – but what kind of change would it really bring in their world and at the scale they would be capable of posing such a revolution – and that is assuming that they would even know why they are suffering as they are and who they should be revolting against for it.

The following is an example of a people who are in such a desperate situation, that they are probably only thinking in terms of where they will find the means to get their next meal – and have not even a thought about revolution or even who they would revolt against in the event of a revolution:

At least 7.2 million out of Zimbabwe's population of 12 million is at risk of starvation, with deaths from Aids-related illnesses "peaking at about 2,500 per week", says Stephen Lewis, the UN's special envoy on HIV and Aids in the region.

In rural areas, where the drought is taking hold and hunger is already biting deep, herds of cattle are being slaughtered, trees felled for firewood, and wild animals poached in their thousands.

More than one million Zimbabweans have already abandoned their homeland in search of a better life elsewhere.

The two-mile-long queue outside the passport office in central Harare tells a story that the exodus will not abate any time soon.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2780775.stm

[TheEndOfMan]

I know the cause of this current state of consumerism and hysteria. FEAR in my oppinion is humanity's biggest flaw. We are so susceptable to fear. The media has us all wrapped around their little finger.

Education is the only answer, just think if everyone that opposed war and believed in a free world convinced one other person that capitalism was not the answer and then that other person convinced another person and so on and so fourth. Eventually the majority of the world's population would begin to understand the truth.

But this is the point i'm trying to make. We cannot just educate people on one issue we must change their way of thinking all together. Show them what it really means to be a being in this world. And i don't mean to offend anyone, but we could do without religion. Faith is just another form of control. Though it is good for people to believe that someone out there really gives a damn. Well atleast it is good in certain situations. But i think if we really are going to change our counsciousness we have to get realistic. No fucking magical powers or what not. Face it we are flesh and blood. Living, breathing organisms. And we are only what we are because that is how we perceive it. You can think what ever you want. You can say to yourself there is heaven and everything will be fine when i die. But look, all we know for sure about life is that we are flesh and blood and we are alive. Even that we don't really know for sure.

Anyway we can make things better, we can make this world better. We just have to start thinking differently.

Money, what the fuck is it?! Man invented it for fucks sake! Everything is just someone's idea. A car, a seat, school, taxes... They are not unquestionabley right just because they are supported by the majority. A man just like you and me thought up these things. A man decided to drive cars. It does not mean that everyone needs a nice expensive car. We can change! We must change! Play time is fucking over... We must act now... We must change world consciousness!

[TheEndOfMan]

Yeah i know we can't change people who are suffering like Zimbabwean's consciousness... Because all they know is survival.. But Zimbabweans are not the people destroying this planet and the beings who live on it. Western cultures like America must change. Europe has begun to change... But we must start to change the mentality of America, Australia and other capitalist countries.... It is hard... Because i sit down and think where the fuck do we start?! How do we, the minority, convince the majority that consumerism, materialism, money, greed etc is not the answer?? How do we show them how to live? It is hard enough for me to try and live my life avoid of superficial shit like consumerism.

It can really get me down... Sometimes it looks like the battle is lost for good. Sometimes i feel as though it would be better if the ice age did come and we were all wiped out. Then again there is always hope i guess.... Humanity may yet be saved.... Hope... Not faith but hope....

[sc4r]

Socialists should distinguish between what can be done in the developed world and what can be done elsewhere.

In the developed world we need to focus on getting across the message that socialism is actually better at managing production than capitalism, and fairer, and accept that any move towards it cannot be anything but gradual (far better regulation of tax loop-holes coupled with gradual increases in social investment funded by taxation on business profits not personal income).

The biggest single hurdle to this is the total absence of any electable centrist party with the objective of making the centre ever further towards the left. In the UK the liberal democrats may look like such a party but I suspect that their inclination would actually be to move to the right given the opportunity.

The other huge barrier to overcome is the one created by the association in the popular mind with Socialism, and Facism labelled Socialism.

All socialists should support moves toward direct democracy rather than representational democracy as another way of moving this process along.

In the undeveloped world the problem is different. Democratic process is not especially effective there (and even where present easily subverted). The problem there is not to gain power and popular support (this has been done many times) but to simultaneously hang on to it without risking the perversion into facism which regrettably socialist intentions without democracy is suceptible to. This to my mind means encouraging our developed governments to actively support such governments and inevitably means that such new regimes must also be extremely careful how they position themselves.

This is far from easy I know (Chavez in Venezuela is really pretty moderate and has been far from attempting full socialism but look at the destabilising attacks from international capitalism he has been subjected to). In my view you must nationalise your key industries or risk having them exert extreme pressure for revisionism on you but you must not make conditions for any workers within those industries worse and to soften the blow you must also ensure that the current ‘owners’ of those industries are compensated (even if it is over a course of years). I know this goes against the grain but there are few places like Cuba where the populace will stand for the almost inevitable deprivation that will otherwise follow as embargoes and destabilising tactics are employed and even fewer where there is a leader of Castro’s stature to hold such a thing together.

The biggest single problem is that socialism is not a quick fix. People like, recognise, and respond all to readily to immediate gains (the enthusiasm in the USA for tax cuts which are nothing of the sort merely deferred taxation should amply illustrate that).

In all cases education is key but the availability of a supportable option which will not be ruthlessly destabilised is also necessary. We must recognise that our enemies are strong and persuasive and not attempt to engage them head on.

[TheEndOfMan]

But even in a socialist society we will still be overwhelmed by consumerism... People will still want that new car, new t.v etc... I guess it would be easier to educate people about the downside of consumerism if we had a socialist society... Unfortunately world wide socialism is unlikely. But you never know...

(Edited by TheEndOfMan at 12:27 am on Mar. 3, 2003)

[TheEndOfMan]

oops :)

(Edited by TheEndOfMan at 12:30 am on Mar. 3, 2003)

[TheEndOfMan]

Sorry.. Ignore this and the last post.... P.C screwed up :)

(Edited by TheEndOfMan at 12:35 am on Mar. 3, 2003)

[ireallyhadablackout]

Quote: from TheEndOfMan on 8:53 am on Feb. 26, 2003

We have to destroy this consumeristic bullshit! But how? How do we make this revolution possible? How do we succeed where so many others have failed? Well I honestly can't tell you. But I know it won't happen in your lifetime or mine. So I guess we just have to look to the future. The generations to follow must not make the same mistakes we are making now. We must educate today's children that there is an alternative to consumerism, there is an alternative to greed. We must educate tomorrow's world leaders. For if not, this world will surely fall to the hands of capitalism, to the hands of hate, greed and true evil.



well stated. like i always say..."one day i will among the world leaders *then i pause...i then laugh out hysterically...calming me self...i smile and i am calmed by the thought that the new world leaders will be...THE POOR! AND THOSE ALONG SIDE THE POOR! :)

its not so gloomy of a thought. how can one paint a picture of hope yet not bring about the sun along with it?

i say...YES it can happen in this life time for we all know that revolution is a "swift" and "rapid" and radical change, much like...like...like...RAPTURE!

Rapture: can imply a lifting of the mind or soul out of itself by or as if by divine power so that it perceives things beyond the normal range of human vision, BUT usually its implications is one of intense bliss or utter delight.

all things are possible? Rene Descartes believe that for each question there is truly an answer. i agree! we must develope the talents to organize efficient and effective non-political self-interest groups. giving each group a designated task backed up by declarations of solidarity. each organisation is given a different starting point that one another. each starting point will usually contain material that involves research to questions and theories that are analysed and tested to the fullest.

[sc4r]

Quote: from TheEndOfMan on 4:17 pm on Mar. 2, 2003
But even in a socialist society we will still be overwhelmed by consumerism...

Depends what you mean by consumerism.

If you mean will people contine to want material possesions which improve their lives then of course they will. Theres nothing about socialism which assumes this not to be the case.

However what they wont be subjected to is advertising led consumerism; fortunes wont be spent persuading people that trainers with a tick on them are worth £50 more than trainers without a tick.

Perhaps more importantly socialist control of production provides a way out of 'prisoners dilemma' type situations which arise in capitalist economies where it is virtually impossible to change from a mode of production which damages either society or the environment because there is no benefit to the individual in exercising such a choice unless everyone else does so simultaneously.

To illustrate :

Take an existing method of power production which is dirty. Assume that a cleaner method exists but, of course requires massive investment to set up.

Now it has often been shown in opinion polls that people want such a thing, even if it costs more, so why does it not happen ?

The answer is that any individual who decides to go for the cleaner power has to pay more for it but does not get any benefit unless the old dirty (but cheaper) supply is shut down; because she is still breathing in exactly the same dirty air that everyone else does.

In fact rather paradoxically the people who purchase the dirty power may actually breathe cleaner air. Why ? because they can spend what they save on power bills in moving to a better area or on air conditioning etc.

So everyone wants the clean supply , but nobody wants to be among the first to change; the result is that nobody changes.

Capitalism is beset by many such dilemma's (also called 'free rider' situations or negative externalities); where somebody benefits from something but passes on a part of the cost to society in general.

You also need to figure in that under capitalism status is very largely measured by the material possessions you own. Status actually is a primary human motivating force (unlike great wealth which despite the standard capitalist mantra about the lack of motivating forces in socialism actually is not a very important one for most people). If you provide an environment in which status is assessed by contribution people will want to contribute, and wont worry so much about the size of their TV, or the cost of their car.

Like almost any social idea radical change cannot realistically be accomplished overnight. You wont go from a society obsessed with consuming to one obsessed with enjoying overnight. You wont change peoples psychology just by demanding that it changes; biut change can be achieved gradually because actually people want this change, they just are not convinced that socialism can achieve it, and dont see that capitalism prevents it.

The greatest problem facing socialists in the western world is to overcome the disinformation about socialism that is widespread, and in particular to find a way around the most easily communicated (though wrong) objection that 'socialism wont work, just look at the USSR, China, Cuba compared to the USA'. Few see that America's wealth is sustained by exploitation of others; few realise yet that even within america income disparities are causing a class of exploited people to come into being; Fewer still appreciate that american prosperity is not exportable because it depends partly on having somebody to exploit and is built upon initial conditions which we would not allow anybody to replicate today. Many many people cannot see that calling something 'socialist' does not make it so, or that imposition of (decidely non capitalist) restrictions on trade force budding socialist countries into relative poverty. You might be amazed at how many people trumpet the benefits of free trade while simultaneously denying that the enforced absence of such trade is a cause of Cuba's relative poverty.

Lassez faire Capitalism no more exists in the world today than communism does. People are persuaded to support the capitalist ideal because what they are actually exposed to is Imperialism + Socialism + Capitalism. For those in the developed countries this means that at present they see their standard of living increasing and cannot see that this is both a temporay phenomenon and is being bought at the expense of others. They are persuaded that more capitalism = better because they are educated into the belief that this alone is what is causing their standards to rise and are discouraged anyway from asking the question 'well yes, it seems good, but could it be even better ?'

The problem in short is one of communication about what can be achieved and what achieves it, not one of altering peoples basic desires.