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Free Palestine
24th December 2005, 06:05
"Working-age Americans who make $50,000 to $100,000 a year are two to six times more generous in the share of their investment assets that they give to charity than those Americans who make more than $10 million."

http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://w...74_8tnIcQ20Q7EY (http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/19/national/19give.html&OP=47063582Q2FQ272neQ27RgQ5B,@ggQ205Q275%28%28qQ27 75Q2774Q27FfQ208gFfYQ2774_8tnIcQ20Q7EY)

Publius
24th December 2005, 14:51
It's pitiful, I agree.

somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback
24th December 2005, 15:24
Makes me think of Bill Gates, who is now being admired for having donated ca. half a billion USD to scientific research (to stop the spreading of lethal diseases) over the past few years. A good thing, no doubt, but the man posesses several billions of dollars, so half a billion really is nothing to him... Except it makes him look good and might persuade some people to not boycotting Microsoft stuff for ethical reasons.

Atlas Swallowed
24th December 2005, 20:16
Don't expect compassion from those who never suffered.

Ele'ill
24th December 2005, 20:26
Don't expect compassion from those who never suffered.

It isn't simply that they've never suffered. They feel that they have made so much progress with their life because of the amount of money that they have so they are afraid of falling. Apathy is their shield. The greater they'd care the more anxious they'd become.

JKP
24th December 2005, 21:12
The gist of this is largely subjective; I don't think we can know what goes on in their consciousness without resorting to pure speculation.

We can however, learn from what they actually do. Which should probably be our focus anyway.

Shredder
27th December 2005, 07:34
Naturally, under capitalism, the rich do not support the poor, but vice versa. One cannot expect a rich capitalist to give away his fortune. In fact, we cannot even expect a poor proletarian to give away his fortune, because one individual's giving will merely give brief respite from the suffering of poverty while doing nothing to solve the root cause, which is capitalism.

viva le revolution
27th December 2005, 08:41
In a capitalist society the poor are jailed at their own expense!

Red Leader
28th December 2005, 18:45
Bahhhhh. Charity is for wimps. Its for rich scum to look even better after they already seem to be so perfect. It comes as no surprise to me and shouldnt to anyone else that middle income americans contribute more to charities than the super rich. The richer you get the more selfish you get and the more you think that you deserve every bit of your wealth. And besides, Bill gates giving away billions to research is kind of bogus too. Im not saying he didnt do it, im sure he did but just of all the ways to be give out money, he has so many resources, why not just buy medicine to already curable diseases and help out countries in dire need? Companies are already getting billions from foundations and the like, they dont need more money, they can find a cure right now, but the dont because the companies want profit.

DisIllusion
28th December 2005, 19:46
Charity from celebrities comes for a number of reasons:

1) They feel guilty about how they have so much when others have so little.

2) They look good.

3) They want consumers to feel as if they're part of a good thing when they buy their product.

They're all capitalists, even when it comes to charity.

PsychOtiC
28th December 2005, 20:31
Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 07:46 PM
Charity from celebrities comes for a number of reasons:

1) They feel guilty about how they have so much when others have so little.

2) They look good.

3) They want consumers to feel as if they're part of a good thing when they buy their product.

They're all capitalists, even when it comes to charity.
Just 2 and 3...

They can't feel guilty...

L Mises
5th January 2006, 19:32
Originally posted by PsychOtiC+Dec 28 2005, 08:42 PM--> (PsychOtiC @ Dec 28 2005, 08:42 PM)
[email protected] 28 2005, 07:46 PM
Charity from celebrities comes for a number of reasons:

1) They feel guilty about how they have so much when others have so little.

2) They look good.

3) They want consumers to feel as if they're part of a good thing when they buy their product.

They're all capitalists, even when it comes to charity.
Just 2 and 3...

They can't feel guilty... [/b]
So anyone with ability is incapable of feeling compassion?

1) So I should feel guilty for my ability to achieve.

2) Yet, there are still people like you badmouthing the rich about not doing enough or only for selfish gains. How often does the Media report these donations? Enough to generate great awareness. I think that is arguable.

3) I bet that the average person can't even list the amount nor the charities the corporations of their favorite products have donated to.

Capitalist Lawyer
5th January 2006, 19:37
"your mind is not for rent to any god or government" - RUSH

You do know that the [crappy] band RUSH are ardent believers in capitalism...particularly objectivism and are followers of Ayn Rand?

L Mises
5th January 2006, 20:19
Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 03:35 PM
Makes me think of Bill Gates, who is now being admired for having donated ca. half a billion USD to scientific research (to stop the spreading of lethal diseases) over the past few years. A good thing, no doubt, but the man posesses several billions of dollars, so half a billion really is nothing to him... Except it makes him look good and might persuade some people to not boycotting Microsoft stuff for ethical reasons.
Bill Gates has alone donate more than 25 billion worth of Microsoft stock to setup one of the largest charity in the world fighting diseases and promoting education. That is nearly 40 percent of his net worth, and that is not counting the contributions Microsoft makes each year.

Yeah, 25 billion is just pocket change. Considering our government spends over ten times that amount for Education alone and our school system isn't exactly the greatest in the world. Let's not forget all the other worthless social programs it spends money on.

The good thing is that we have a mixed economy. The government is only able to waste 1/3 of the nation's GDP. Now if we were communist there would be less waste. Not because the system is better. Because under communism, people with the ability to create wealth would be the first to go in such a system. There wouldn't any wealth to waste.

Question for you commies since you like to refer capitalists as cappies. How many of you actually have the ability to create that much wealth in the first place; let alone donate it?

Not even Bill Gate's net worth, just a random celebrity worth 10 million. Don't want to make you guys into overachievers. Since words like ability and achievement aren't found in the communism manifesto.

JKP
5th January 2006, 23:48
As mentioned in the last section, profits are the driving force of capitalism. If a profit cannot be made, a good is not produced, regardless of how many people "subjectively value" it. But where do profits come from?

In order to make more money, money must be transformed into capital, i.e., workplaces, machinery and other "capital goods." By itself, however, capital (like money) produces nothing. Capital only becomes productive in the labour process when workers use capital ("Neither property nor capital produces anything when not fertilised by labour" - Bakunin). Under capitalism, workers not only create sufficient value (i.e. produced commodities) to maintain existing capital and their own existence, they also produce a surplus. This surplus expresses itself as a surplus of goods, i.e. an excess of commodities compared to the number a workers' wages could buy back. Thus Proudhon:

"The working man cannot. . . repurchase that which he has produced for his master. It is thus with all trades whatsoever. . . since, producing for a master who in one form or another makes a profit, they are obliged to pay more for their own labour than they get for it." [What is Property, p. 189]

In other words, the price of all produced goods is greater than the money value represented by the workers' wages (plus raw materials and overheads such as wear and tear on machinery) when those goods were produced. The labour contained in these "surplus-products" is the source of profit, which has to be realised on the market. (In practice, of course, the value represented by these surplus-products is distributed throughout all the commodities produced in the form of profit -- the difference between the cost price and the market price).

Obviously, pro-capitalist economics argue against this theory of how a surplus arises. However, one example will suffice here to see why labour is the source of a surplus, rather than (say) "waiting", risk or capital (these arguments, and others, will be discussed below). A good poker-player uses equipment (capital), takes risks, delays gratification, engages in strategic behaviour, tries new tricks (innovates), not to mention cheats, and earns large winnings (and can even do so repeatedly). But no surplus product results from such behaviour; the gambler's winnings are simply redistributions from others with no new production occurring. Thus, risk-taking, abstinence, entrepreneurship, etc. might be necessary for an individual to receive profits but are far from sufficient for them not to be the result a pure redistribution from others (a redistribution, we may add, which can only occur under capitalism if workers produce goods to sell).

Thus, in order for a profit to be generated within capitalism two things are required. Firstly, a group of workers to work the available capital. Secondly, that they must produce more value than they are paid in wages. If only the first condition is present, all that occurs is that social wealth is redistributed between individuals. With the second condition, a surplus proper is generated. In both cases, however, workers are exploited for without their labour there would be no goods to facilitate a redistribution of existing wealth nor surplus products.

The surplus value produced by labour is divided between profits, interest and rent (or, more correctly, between the owners of the various factors of production other than labour). In practice, this surplus is used by the owners of capital for: (a) investment (b) to pay themselves dividends on their stock, if any; © to pay for rent and interest payments; and (d) to pay their executives and managers (who are sometimes identical with the owners themselves) much higher salaries than workers. As the surplus is being divided between different groups of capitalists, this means that there can be clashes of interest between (say) industrial capitalists and finance capitalists. For example, a rise in interest rates can squeeze industrial capitalists by directing more of the surplus from them into the hands of rentiers. Such a rise could cause business failures and so a slump (indeed, rising interest rates is a key way of regulating working class power by generating unemployment to discipline workers by fear of the sack). The surplus, like the labour used to reproduce existing capital, is embodied in the finished commodity and is realised once it is sold. This means that workers do not receive the full value of their labour, since the surplus appropriated by owners for investment, etc. represents value added to commodities by workers -- value for which they are not paid.

So capitalist profits (as well as rent and interest payments) are in essence unpaid labour, and hence capitalism is based on exploitation. As Proudhon noted, "Products, say economists, are only bought by products. This maxim is property's condemnation. The proprietor producing neither by his own labour nor by his implement, and receiving products in exchange for nothing, is either a parasite or a thief." [Op. Cit., p. 170] It is this appropriation of wealth from the worker by the owner which differentiates capitalism from the simple commodity production of artisan and peasant economies. All anarchists agree with Bakunin when he stated that:

"what is property, what is capital in their present form? For the capitalist and the property owner they mean the power and the right, guaranteed by the State, to live without working. . . [and so] the power and right to live by exploiting the work of someone else . . . those . . . [who are] forced to sell their productive power to the lucky owners of both." [The Political Philosophy of Bakunin, p. 180]

Obviously supporters of capitalism disagree. Profits are not the product of exploitation and workers, capitalists and landlords get paid the value of their contributions to output, they say. A few even talk about "making money work for you" (as if pieces of paper can actually do any form of work!) while, obviously, human beings have to do the actual work (and usually for money). However, all agree that capitalism is not exploitative (no matter how exploitative it may look) and present various arguments why capitalists deserve to keep the products others make. This section of the FAQ presents some of the reasons why anarchists reject this claim.

Lastly, we would like to point out that some apologists for capitalism cite the empirical fact that, in a modern capitalist economy, a large majority of all income goes to "labour," with profit, interest and rent adding up to something under twenty percent of the total. Of course, even if surplus value was less than 20% of a workers' output, this does not change its exploitative nature. These apologists of capitalism do not say that taxation stops being "theft" just because it is around 10% of all income. However, this value for profit, interest and rent is based on a statistical sleight-of-hand, as "worker" is defined as including everyone who has a salary in a company, including managers and CEOs (income to "labour" includes both wages and salaries, in other words). The large incomes which many managers and all CEOs receive would, of course, ensure that a large majority of all income does go to "labour." Thus this "fact" ignores the role of most managers as de facto capitalists and exploiters of surplus value and ignores the changes in industry that have occurred in the last 50 years.

To get a better picture of the nature of exploitation within modern capitalism we have to compare workers wages to their productivity. According to the World Bank, in 1966, US manufacturing wages were equal to 46% of the value-added in production (value-added is the difference between selling price and the costs of raw materials and other inputs to the production process). In 1990, that figure had fallen to 36% and (using figures from 1992 Economic Census of the US Census Bureau) by 1992 it had reached 19.76% (39.24% if we take the total payroll which includes managers and so on). In the US construction industry, wages were 35.4% of value added in 1992 (with total payroll, 50.18%). Therefore the argument that because a large percentage of income goes to "labour" capitalism is fine hides the realities of that system and the exploitation its hierarchical nature creates.


We now move on to why this surplus value exists.


It is the nature of capitalism for the monopolisation of the worker's product by others to exist. This is because of private property in the means of production and so in "consequence of [which] . . . [the] worker, when he is able to work, finds no acre to till, no machine to set in motion, unless he agrees to sell his labour for a sum inferior to its real value." [Peter Kropotkin, Kropotkin's Revolutionary Pamphlets, p. 55]

Therefore workers have to sell their labour on the market. However, as this "commodity" "cannot be separated from the person of the worker like pieces of property. The worker's capacities are developed over time and they form an integral part of his self and self-identity; capacities are internally not externally related to the person. Moreover, capacities or labour power cannot be used without the worker using his will, his understanding and experience, to put them into effect. The use of labour power requires the presence of its 'owner'. . . To contract for the use of labour power is a waste of resources unless it can be used in the way in which the new owner requires . . . The employment contract must, therefore, create a relationship of command and obedience between employer and worker." [Carole Pateman, The Sexual Contract, pp. 150-1]

So, "the contract in which the worker allegedly sells his labour power is a contract in which, since he cannot be separated from his capacities, he sells command over the use of his body and himself. . . The characteristics of this condition are captured in the term wage slave." [Ibid., p. 151] Or, to use Bakunin's words, "the worker sells his person and his liberty for a given time" and so "concluded for a term only and reserving to the worker the right to quit his employer, this contract constitutes a sort of voluntary and transitory serfdom." [The Political Philosophy of Bakunin, p. 187]

This domination is the source of the surplus, for "wage slavery is not a consequence of exploitation - exploitation is a consequence of the fact that the sale of labour power entails the worker's subordination. The employment contract creates the capitalist as master; he has the political right to determine how the labour of the worker will be used, and - consequently - can engage in exploitation." [Carole Pateman, Op. Cit., p. 149]

So profits exist because the worker sells themselves to the capitalist, who then owns their activity and, therefore, controls them (or, more accurately, tries to control them) like a machine. Benjamin Tucker's comments with regard to the claim that capital is entitled to a reward are of use here. He notes that some "combat. . . the doctrine that surplus value -- oftener called profits -- belong to the labourer because he creates it, by arguing that the horse. . . is rightly entitled to the surplus value which he creates for his owner. So he will be when he has the sense to claim and the power to take it. . . Th[is] argument . . is based upon the assumption that certain men are born owned by other men, just as horses are. Thus its reductio ad absurdum turns upon itself." [Instead of a Book, pp. 495-6]

In other words, to argue that capital should be rewarded is to implicitly assume that workers are just like machinery, another "factor of production" rather than human beings and the creator of things of value. So profits exists because during the working day the capitalist controls the activity and output of the worker (i.e. owns them during working hours as activity cannot be separated from the body and "[t]here is an integral relationship between the body and self. The body and self are not identical, but selves are inseparable from bodies." [Carole Pateman, Op. Cit., p. 206]).

Considered purely in terms of output, this results in, as Proudhon noted, workers working "for an entrepreneur who pays them and keeps their products." [quoted by Martin Buber, Paths in Utopia, p. 29] The ability of capitalists to maintain this kind of monopolisation of another's time and output is enshrined in "property rights" enforced by either public or private states. In short, therefore, property "is the right to enjoy and dispose at will of another's goods - the fruit of an other's industry and labour." [P-J Proudhon, What is Property, p. 171] And because of this "right," a worker's wage will always be less than the wealth that he or she produces.

The size of this surplus, the amount of unpaid labour, can be changed by changing the duration and intensity of work (i.e. by making workers labour longer and harder). If the duration of work is increased, the amount of surplus value is increased absolutely. If the intensity is increased, e.g. by innovation in the production process, then the amount of surplus value increases relatively (i.e. workers produce the equivalent of their wage sooner during their working day resulting in more unpaid labour for their boss).

Such surplus indicates that labour, like any other commodity, has a use value and an exchange value. Labour's exchange value is a worker's wages, its use value their ability to work, to do what the capitalist who buys it wants. Thus the existence of "surplus products" indicates that there is a difference between the exchange value of labour and its use value, that labour can potentially create more value than it receives back in wages. We stress potentially, because the extraction of use value from labour is not a simple operation like the extraction of so many joules of energy from a ton of coal. Labour power cannot be used without subjecting the labourer to the will of the capitalist - unlike other commodities, labour power remains inseparably embodied in human beings. Both the extraction of use value and the determination of exchange value for labour depends upon - and are profoundly modified by - the actions of workers. Neither the effort provided during an hours work, nor the time spent in work, nor the wage received in exchange for it, can be determined without taking into account the worker's resistance to being turned into a commodity, into an order taker. In other words, the amount of "surplus products" extracted from a worker is dependent upon the resistance to dehumanisation within the workplace, to the attempts by workers to resist the destruction of liberty during work hours.

Thus unpaid labour, the consequence of the authority relations explicit in private property, is the source of profits. Part of this surplus is used to enrich capitalists and another to increase capital, which in turn is used to increase profits, in an endless cycle (a cycle, however, which is not a steady increase but is subject to periodic disruption by recessions or depressions - "The business cycle.")

Does this mean capitalists are justified in appropriating a portion of surplus value for themselves (i.e. making a profit)?

In a word, no. As we will attempt to indicate, capitalists are not justified in appropriating surplus value from workers. No matter how this appropriation is explained by capitalist economics, we find that inequality in wealth and power are the real reasons for this appropriation rather than some actual productive act. Indeed, neo-classical economics reflects this truism. In the words of the noted left-wing economist Joan Robinson:

"the neo-classical theory did not contain a solution to the problems of profits or of the value of capital. They have erected a towering structure of mathematical theorems on a foundation that does not exist." [Contributions to Modern Economics, p. 186]

If profits are the result of private property and the inequality it produces, then it is unsurprising that neo-classical theory would be as foundationless as Robinson argues. After all, this is a political question and neo-classical economics was developed to ignore such questions. Here we indicate why this is the case and discuss the various rationales for capitalist profit in order to show why they are false.

Some consider that profit is the capitalist's "contribution" to the value of a commodity. However, as David Schweickart points out, "'providing capital' means nothing more than 'allowing it to be used.' But an act of granting permission, in and of itself, is not a productive activity. If labourers cease to labour, production ceases in any society. But if owners cease to grant permission, production is affected only if their authority over the means of production is respected." [Against Capitalism, p. 11] This authority, as discussed earlier, derives from the coercive mechanisms of the state, whose primary purpose is to ensure that capitalists have this ability to grant or deny workers access to the means of production. Therefore, not only is "providing capital" not a productive activity, it depends on a system of organised coercion which requires the appropriation of a considerable portion of the value produced by labour, through taxes, and hence is actually parasitic. Needless to say, rent can also be considered as "profit", being based purely on "granting permission" and so not a productive activity. The same can be said of interest, although the arguments are somewhat different.

Another problem with the capitalists' "contribution to production" argument is that one must either assume (a) a strict definition of who is the producer of something, in which case one must credit only the worker, or (b) a looser definition based on which individuals have contributed to the circumstances that made the productive work possible. Since the worker's productivity was made possible in part by the use of property supplied by the capitalist, one can thus credit the capitalist with "contributing to production" and so claim that he or she is entitled to a reward, i.e. profit.

However, if one assumes (b), one must then explain why the chain of credit should stop with the capitalist. Since all human activity takes place within a complex social network, many factors might be cited as contributing to the circumstances that allowed workers to produce -- e.g. their upbringing and education, the government maintained infrastructure that permits their place of employment to operate, and so on. Certainly the property of the capitalist contributed in this sense. But his contribution was less important than the work of, say, the worker's mother. Yet no capitalist, so far as we know, has proposed compensating workers' mothers with any share of the firm's revenues, and particularly not with a greater share than that received by capitalists! Plainly, however, if they followed their own logic consistently, capitalists would have to agree that such compensation would be fair.

Therefore, as capital is not autonomously productive and is the product of human (mental and physical) labour, anarchists reject the idea that providing capital is a productive act. As Proudhon pointed out, "Capital, tools, and machinery are likewise unproductive. . . The proprietor who asks to be rewarded for the use of a tool or for the productive power of his land, takes for granted, then, that which is radically false; namely, that capital produces by its own effort - and, in taking pay for this imaginary product, he literally receives something for nothing." [Op. Cit., p. 169].

Of course, it could be argued (and it frequently is) that capital makes work more productive and so the owner of capital should be "rewarded" for allowing its use. This, however, is a false conclusion, since providing capital is unlike normal commodity production. This is because capitalists, unlike workers, get paid multiple times for one piece of work (which, in all likelihood, they paid others to do) and keep the result of that labour. As Proudhon argued:

"He [the worker] who manufactures or repairs the farmer's tools receives the price once, either at the time of delivery, or in several payments; and when this price is once paid to the manufacturer, the tools which he has delivered belong to him no more. Never can he claim double payment for the same tool, or the same job of repairs. If he annually shares in the products of the farmer, it is owing to the fact that he annually does something for the farmer.

"The proprietor, on the contrary, does not yield his implement; eternally he is paid for it, eternally he keeps it." [Op. Cit., pp. 169-170]

Therefore, providing capital is not a productive act, and keeping the profits that are produced by those who actually do use capital is an act of theft. This does not mean, of course, that creating capital goods is not creative nor that it does not aid production. Far from it! But owning the outcome of such activity and renting it does not justify capitalism or profits.

Some supporters of capitalism claim that profits represent the productivity of capital. They argue that a worker is said to receive exactly what she has produced because (according to the neo-classical answer) if she ceases to work, the total product will decline by precisely the value of her wage. However, this argument has a flaw in it. This is because the total product will decline by more than that value if two or more workers leave. This is because the wage each worker receives under conditions of perfect competition is assumed to be the product of the last labourer in neo-classical theory. The neo-classical argument presumes a "declining marginal productivity," i.e. the marginal product of the last worker is assumed to be less than the second last and so on.

In other words, in neo-classical economics, all workers bar the mythical "last worker" do not receive the full product of their labour. They only receive what the last worker is claimed to produce and so everyone bar the last worker does not receive exactly what he or she produces. It looks like the neo-classical claim of no exploitation within capitalism seems invalidated by its own theory.

This is recognised by the theorists. Because of this declining marginal productivity, the contribution of labour is less than the total product. The difference is claimed to be precisely the contribution of capital. But what is this "contribution" of capital? Without any labourers there would be no output. In addition, in physical terms, the marginal product of capital is simply the amount by which production would decline is one piece of capital were taken out of production. It does not reflect any productive activity whatsoever on the part of the owner of said capital. It does not, therefore, measure his or her productive contribution. In other words, capitalist economics tries to confuse the owners of capital with the machinery they own.

Indeed, the notion that profits represent the contribution of capital is one that is shattered by the practice of "profit sharing." If profits were the contribution of capital, then sharing profits would mean that capital was not receiving its full "contribution" to production (and so was being exploited by labour!). Moreover, given that profit sharing is usually used as a technique to increase productivity and profits it seems strange that such a technique would be required if profits, in fact, did represent capital's "contribution." After all, the machinery which the workers are using is the same as before profit sharing was introduced -- how could this unchanged capital stock produce an increased "contribution"? It could only do so if, in fact, capital was unproductive and it was the unpaid efforts, skills and energy of workers' that actually was the source of profits. Thus the claim that profit equals capital's "contribution" has little basis in fact.

While it is true that the value invested in fixed capital is in the course of time transferred to the commodities produced by it and through their sale transformed into money, this does not represent any actual labour by the owners of capital. Anarchists reject the ideological sleight-of-hand that suggests otherwise and recognise that (mental and physical) labour is the only form of contribution that can be made by humans to a productive process. Without labour, nothing can be produced nor the value contained in fixed capital transferred to goods. As Charles A. Dana pointed out in his popular introduction to Proudhon's ideas, "[t]he labourer without capital would soon supply his wants by its production . . . but capital with no labourers to consume it can only lie useless and rot." [Proudhon and his "Bank of the People", p. 31] If workers do not get paid the full value of their contributions to the output they produce then they are exploited and so, as indicated, capitalism is based upon exploitation.

So, in and of themselves, fixed costs do not create value. Whether value is created depends on how investments are developed and used once in place. In the words of the English socialist Thomas Hodgskin:

"Fixed capital does not derive its utility from previous, but present labour; and does not bring its owner a profit because it has been stored up, but because it is a means of obtaining a command over labour." [Labour Defended against the Claims of Capital]

Which brings us back to labour (and the social relationships which exist within an economy) as the fundamental source of profits. Moreover the idea (so beloved by pro-capitalist economics) that a worker's wage is the equivalent of what she produces is one violated everyday within reality. As one economist critical of neo-classical dogma put it:

"Managers of a capitalist enterprise are not content simply to respond to the dictates of the market by equating the wage to the value of the marginal product of labour. Once the worker has entered the production process, the forces of the market have, for a time at least, been superseded. The effort-pay relation will depend not only on market relations of exchange but also. . . on the hierarchical relations of production - on the relative power of managers and workers within the enterprise." [William Lazonick, Business Organisation and the Myth of the Market Economy, pp. 184-5]

But, then again, capitalist economics is more concerned with justifying the status quo than being in touch with the real world. To claim that a workers wage represents her contribution and profit capital's is simply false. Capital cannot produce anything (nevermind a surplus) unless used by labour and so profits do not represent the productivity of capital.

Other common justifications of profit are based on claims about the "special abilities" of a select few, e.g. as "risk taking" or "creative" ability, and are equally unsound as the one just outlined.

As for risk taking, virtually all human activity involves risk. To claim that capitalists should be paid for the risks associated with investment is to implicitly state that money is more valuable that human life. Afterall, workers risk their health and often their lives in work and often the most dangerous workplaces are those associated with the lowest pay (safe working conditions can eat into profits and so to reward capitalist "risk", the risk workers face may actually increase). In the inverted world of capitalist ethics, it is usually cheaper (or more "efficient") to replace an individual worker than a capital investment.

Moreover, the risk theory of profit fails to take into account the different risk-taking abilities of that derive from the unequal distribution of society's wealth. As James Meade puts it, while "property owners can spread their risks by putting small bits of their property into a large number of concerns, a worker cannot easily put small bits of his effort into a large number of different jobs. This presumably is the main reason we find risk-bearing capital hiring labour" and not vice versa [quoted by David Schweickart, Op. Cit., pp. 129-130]. Needless to say, the most serious consequences of "risk" are usually suffered by working people who can lose their jobs, health and even lives. So, rather than individual evaluations determining "risk", these evaluations will be dependent on the class position of the individuals involved. Risk, therefore, is not an independent factor and so cannot be the source of profit. Indeed, as indicated, other activities can involve far more risk and be rewarded less.

As for the "creative" spirit which innovates profits into existence, it is true that individuals do see new potential and act in innovative ways to create new products or processes. However, this is not the source of profit.

Red Leader
5th January 2006, 23:54
You do know that the [crappy] band RUSH are ardent believers in capitalism...particularly objectivism and are followers of Ayn Rand?

First of all, RUSH is not a crappy band, they are quite possibly the greatest thing to come out of Canadian music, but i guess each to his own opinon when it comes to music. Most of thier lyrics are somewhat left leaning (heard of the song WORKING MAN???), but regardless, I quote the song because of its truthfulness. I dont believe that someones thoughts should be controlled by any individual or institution. And besides, when it comes to music i could care less if they are capitalists. Heck most bands out there are. however as far as im concerned good music is good music. Seriously, I listen to anything that has genuine talent and dont care if they are left wing or right wing, if they are left, I just consider that an added bonus.
Now as for folowing Ayn Rand, what makes you think so? Please back this up, im not trying to be arrogent its just that i want to know for sure because RUSH is one of my fav bands and if they do in fact follow her pathetic ideologies then i will be crushed.


So anyone with ability is incapable of feeling compassion?

1) So I should feel guilty for my ability to achieve.

2) Yet, there are still people like you badmouthing the rich about not doing enough or only for selfish gains. How often does the Media report these donations? Enough to generate great awareness. I think that is arguable.

3) I bet that the average person can't even list the amount nor the charities the corporations of their favorite products have donated to.

Ok i think you misunderstand the point of my post. Please re read.

Yes some rich scum give money to charities but its surly not enough. If they have accumulated all this excess wealth why not share it? Its not about any achievments, for gods sake it doesnt take a genius to figure out that the amount of work somebody does has MARKET VALUE in capitalist society.

One can surely argue that a business man who works for a corporation, lets say that produces steel, for instance, works hard no doubt. But lets look at a lower paying job, like the steel worker himself who works in the factory. The actual physical amount of work that these two individuals do is probably equal, if not more in favor of the steel worker, however, who makes more money? Obviously the busniess man. This is because HIS labour has more MARKET VALUE. Plain and simple.

As for achievements? One cannot define achievement without bringing in the amount of money one has made, regardless of how much work he has produced. Im am going to bet you are a well off individual judging by your statement about not feeling guilty for your so called "acheivements". So your saying that you have accumulated such a vast amount of wealth out of your own sweat and blood and therefore deserve every penny of it? I highly doubt you started poor on the street and then rose to the top of society out of sheer will and determination. Most likely you are like the large majority of the rich who have only "succeded" because thier jobs happened to be of higher market value then others.



Question for you commies since you like to refer capitalists as cappies. How many of you actually have the ability to create that much wealth in the first place; let alone donate it?

Well, if you live in the so called "land of teh free" according to capitalist society, everyone has the ability to create so much wealth. Every single one. Now, is this true? Of course not or else we would ALL LIVE IN WEALTH. Those who do in fact take advantage of the less fortunate and end up making such glorious "achievements" of exploiting workers so they are able to wipe thier asses with hundred doller bills, those individuals are able to donate money to those who need it. But they dont. Because they "deserve" it. They "worked hard for it."

Tell me this please. With idiots like tiger woods, who makes like a thousand dollars a minute or something stupid like that, If he has all this wealth and deserves so much of it, is it right that he can use up so many RESOURCES to buy all that crap that he buys? The disgusting amount of excess wealth people like him are literally ruining are planet.

Oh yeah, and stop saying that these rich pigs are actually doing thier part because they have donated so much to "research institutes". I have already explained how this is bogus. But i say again, if they really want to make a difference, use that little bit of your wealth your willing to share and spend it on CURABLE epidemics. MIllions die of leprasy in africa, a 100% curable disease, but everyone is too busy spending money trying to find the cure for cancer or something. Do you not realize the amount of money these corporations have already, do you not think they have already found a cure? They just want to wait so they can have more money money money.

Dark Exodus
6th January 2006, 00:10
they can find a cure right now, but the dont because the companies want profit.

Incorrect, if they could produce a cure they would. Then they would patent it and sell it for large amounts of money.

L Mises
6th January 2006, 03:15
Originally posted by Red [email protected] 6 2006, 12:05 AM

You do know that the [crappy] band RUSH are ardent believers in capitalism...particularly objectivism and are followers of Ayn Rand?

First of all, RUSH is not a crappy band, they are quite possibly the greatest thing to come out of Canadian music, but i guess each to his own opinon when it comes to music. Most of thier lyrics are somewhat left leaning (heard of the song WORKING MAN???), but regardless, I quote the song because of its truthfulness. I dont believe that someones thoughts should be controlled by any individual or institution. And besides, when it comes to music i could care less if they are capitalists. Heck most bands out there are. however as far as im concerned good music is good music. Seriously, I listen to anything that has genuine talent and dont care if they are left wing or right wing, if they are left, I just consider that an added bonus.
Now as for folowing Ayn Rand, what makes you think so? Please back this up, im not trying to be arrogent its just that i want to know for sure because RUSH is one of my fav bands and if they do in fact follow her pathetic ideologies then i will be crushed.


So anyone with ability is incapable of feeling compassion?

1) So I should feel guilty for my ability to achieve.

2) Yet, there are still people like you badmouthing the rich about not doing enough or only for selfish gains. How often does the Media report these donations? Enough to generate great awareness. I think that is arguable.

3) I bet that the average person can't even list the amount nor the charities the corporations of their favorite products have donated to.

Ok i think you misunderstand the point of my post. Please re read.

Yes some rich scum give money to charities but its surly not enough. If they have accumulated all this excess wealth why not share it? Its not about any achievments, for gods sake it doesnt take a genius to figure out that the amount of work somebody does has MARKET VALUE in capitalist society.

One can surely argue that a business man who works for a corporation, lets say that produces steel, for instance, works hard no doubt. But lets look at a lower paying job, like the steel worker himself who works in the factory. The actual physical amount of work that these two individuals do is probably equal, if not more in favor of the steel worker, however, who makes more money? Obviously the busniess man. This is because HIS labour has more MARKET VALUE. Plain and simple.

As for achievements? One cannot define achievement without bringing in the amount of money one has made, regardless of how much work he has produced. Im am going to bet you are a well off individual judging by your statement about not feeling guilty for your so called "acheivements". So your saying that you have accumulated such a vast amount of wealth out of your own sweat and blood and therefore deserve every penny of it? I highly doubt you started poor on the street and then rose to the top of society out of sheer will and determination. Most likely you are like the large majority of the rich who have only "succeded" because thier jobs happened to be of higher market value then others.



Question for you commies since you like to refer capitalists as cappies. How many of you actually have the ability to create that much wealth in the first place; let alone donate it?

Well, if you live in the so called "land of teh free" according to capitalist society, everyone has the ability to create so much wealth. Every single one. Now, is this true? Of course not or else we would ALL LIVE IN WEALTH. Those who do in fact take advantage of the less fortunate and end up making such glorious "achievements" of exploiting workers so they are able to wipe thier asses with hundred doller bills, those individuals are able to donate money to those who need it. But they dont. Because they "deserve" it. They "worked hard for it."

Tell me this please. With idiots like tiger woods, who makes like a thousand dollars a minute or something stupid like that, If he has all this wealth and deserves so much of it, is it right that he can use up so many RESOURCES to buy all that crap that he buys? The disgusting amount of excess wealth people like him are literally ruining are planet.

Oh yeah, and stop saying that these rich pigs are actually doing thier part because they have donated so much to "research institutes". I have already explained how this is bogus. But i say again, if they really want to make a difference, use that little bit of your wealth your willing to share and spend it on CURABLE epidemics. MIllions die of leprasy in africa, a 100% curable disease, but everyone is too busy spending money trying to find the cure for cancer or something. Do you not realize the amount of money these corporations have already, do you not think they have already found a cure? They just want to wait so they can have more money money money.
I like how I called them "rich scums." So having money is evil? Maybe you don't know how the business world works.

Most of Bill Gates' wealth is from his shares in Microsoft. If he were to sell all of his shares, the stock price of Micrsoft would be greatly devalued hurting the company and its shareholders. The majority of corporate stock is held by the general public so it would end hurting "your wokers" more than Mr. Gates as he can easily set up aside an amount to live comfortably.

He has a salary of 300k and has lived a rather modest life compared to others. Hell, some rapists buy more expensive houses then he does. Besides he could do more mantaining his control of a company that has over 60 billion in reserves and nets in an extra billion dollar after each month.

In the grand scheme of things, spending his entire net worth is not going to do much to and it's even not impressive when you compared it to how much governments waste. Forbes listed the 400 richest people in the world as of 2005 with a collective net worth of 1.6 trillion dollars. That amount maybe will cover the spending of the US government for one year. We should solved all the problems by now using your logic.

Why are the rich or rather anyone olibgate to help "the poor?" That is basically slavery. Why can't I leap the fruits of my own labor, and why MUST I share with those that do not work. This does not suggest however that there should be no charity. Rather it should be out of choice rather than oligbation. This oligation to help others creates one of the worst societies possible where every individual is either a begger or a sucker.

Your analogy between worker and the plant manager is only valid if all efforts is equal. Too bad that is not how reality or the universe operates. If I were the plant manager; I would probably employ machinary by now that effortlessly manufactures the steels. There are so many other angles of business besides making the steal.

The strategic intelligence of the manager to coordinate work efficently is much not much difficult to replace or automate hence he is more valuable to the steel plant. Better analogy, look at gold and dirt. Gold is more valuable because it is rarer and more difficult to find. Simply laws of supply and demand.

Again, I stated that I believe all the human beings are entitled to basic certain human rights. Status or Social-Economic should not affect this.

Please cite how the rich exploit and take advantage of the "workers." Free capitalism never not claim that everyone is going to be rich. Yet communism makes claims that everyone will be equal and happy about it, but it fails to achieve its objectives.

L Mises
6th January 2006, 03:22
Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2006, 11:59 PM
As mentioned in the last section, profits are the driving force of capitalism. If a profit cannot be made, a good is not produced, regardless of how many people "subjectively value" it. But where do profits come from?

In order to make more money, money must be transformed into capital, i.e., workplaces, machinery and other "capital goods." By itself, however, capital (like money) produces nothing. Capital only becomes productive in the labour process when workers use capital ("Neither property nor capital produces anything when not fertilised by labour" - Bakunin). Under capitalism, workers not only create sufficient value (i.e. produced commodities) to maintain existing capital and their own existence, they also produce a surplus. This surplus expresses itself as a surplus of goods, i.e. an excess of commodities compared to the number a workers' wages could buy back. Thus Proudhon:

"The working man cannot. . . repurchase that which he has produced for his master. It is thus with all trades whatsoever. . . since, producing for a master who in one form or another makes a profit, they are obliged to pay more for their own labour than they get for it." [What is Property, p. 189]

In other words, the price of all produced goods is greater than the money value represented by the workers' wages (plus raw materials and overheads such as wear and tear on machinery) when those goods were produced. The labour contained in these "surplus-products" is the source of profit, which has to be realised on the market. (In practice, of course, the value represented by these surplus-products is distributed throughout all the commodities produced in the form of profit -- the difference between the cost price and the market price).

Obviously, pro-capitalist economics argue against this theory of how a surplus arises. However, one example will suffice here to see why labour is the source of a surplus, rather than (say) "waiting", risk or capital (these arguments, and others, will be discussed below). A good poker-player uses equipment (capital), takes risks, delays gratification, engages in strategic behaviour, tries new tricks (innovates), not to mention cheats, and earns large winnings (and can even do so repeatedly). But no surplus product results from such behaviour; the gambler's winnings are simply redistributions from others with no new production occurring. Thus, risk-taking, abstinence, entrepreneurship, etc. might be necessary for an individual to receive profits but are far from sufficient for them not to be the result a pure redistribution from others (a redistribution, we may add, which can only occur under capitalism if workers produce goods to sell).

Thus, in order for a profit to be generated within capitalism two things are required. Firstly, a group of workers to work the available capital. Secondly, that they must produce more value than they are paid in wages. If only the first condition is present, all that occurs is that social wealth is redistributed between individuals. With the second condition, a surplus proper is generated. In both cases, however, workers are exploited for without their labour there would be no goods to facilitate a redistribution of existing wealth nor surplus products.

The surplus value produced by labour is divided between profits, interest and rent (or, more correctly, between the owners of the various factors of production other than labour). In practice, this surplus is used by the owners of capital for: (a) investment (b) to pay themselves dividends on their stock, if any; © to pay for rent and interest payments; and (d) to pay their executives and managers (who are sometimes identical with the owners themselves) much higher salaries than workers. As the surplus is being divided between different groups of capitalists, this means that there can be clashes of interest between (say) industrial capitalists and finance capitalists. For example, a rise in interest rates can squeeze industrial capitalists by directing more of the surplus from them into the hands of rentiers. Such a rise could cause business failures and so a slump (indeed, rising interest rates is a key way of regulating working class power by generating unemployment to discipline workers by fear of the sack). The surplus, like the labour used to reproduce existing capital, is embodied in the finished commodity and is realised once it is sold. This means that workers do not receive the full value of their labour, since the surplus appropriated by owners for investment, etc. represents value added to commodities by workers -- value for which they are not paid.

So capitalist profits (as well as rent and interest payments) are in essence unpaid labour, and hence capitalism is based on exploitation. As Proudhon noted, "Products, say economists, are only bought by products. This maxim is property's condemnation. The proprietor producing neither by his own labour nor by his implement, and receiving products in exchange for nothing, is either a parasite or a thief." [Op. Cit., p. 170] It is this appropriation of wealth from the worker by the owner which differentiates capitalism from the simple commodity production of artisan and peasant economies. All anarchists agree with Bakunin when he stated that:

"what is property, what is capital in their present form? For the capitalist and the property owner they mean the power and the right, guaranteed by the State, to live without working. . . [and so] the power and right to live by exploiting the work of someone else . . . those . . . [who are] forced to sell their productive power to the lucky owners of both." [The Political Philosophy of Bakunin, p. 180]

Obviously supporters of capitalism disagree. Profits are not the product of exploitation and workers, capitalists and landlords get paid the value of their contributions to output, they say. A few even talk about "making money work for you" (as if pieces of paper can actually do any form of work!) while, obviously, human beings have to do the actual work (and usually for money). However, all agree that capitalism is not exploitative (no matter how exploitative it may look) and present various arguments why capitalists deserve to keep the products others make. This section of the FAQ presents some of the reasons why anarchists reject this claim.

Lastly, we would like to point out that some apologists for capitalism cite the empirical fact that, in a modern capitalist economy, a large majority of all income goes to "labour," with profit, interest and rent adding up to something under twenty percent of the total. Of course, even if surplus value was less than 20% of a workers' output, this does not change its exploitative nature. These apologists of capitalism do not say that taxation stops being "theft" just because it is around 10% of all income. However, this value for profit, interest and rent is based on a statistical sleight-of-hand, as "worker" is defined as including everyone who has a salary in a company, including managers and CEOs (income to "labour" includes both wages and salaries, in other words). The large incomes which many managers and all CEOs receive would, of course, ensure that a large majority of all income does go to "labour." Thus this "fact" ignores the role of most managers as de facto capitalists and exploiters of surplus value and ignores the changes in industry that have occurred in the last 50 years.

To get a better picture of the nature of exploitation within modern capitalism we have to compare workers wages to their productivity. According to the World Bank, in 1966, US manufacturing wages were equal to 46% of the value-added in production (value-added is the difference between selling price and the costs of raw materials and other inputs to the production process). In 1990, that figure had fallen to 36% and (using figures from 1992 Economic Census of the US Census Bureau) by 1992 it had reached 19.76% (39.24% if we take the total payroll which includes managers and so on). In the US construction industry, wages were 35.4% of value added in 1992 (with total payroll, 50.18%). Therefore the argument that because a large percentage of income goes to "labour" capitalism is fine hides the realities of that system and the exploitation its hierarchical nature creates.


We now move on to why this surplus value exists.


It is the nature of capitalism for the monopolisation of the worker's product by others to exist. This is because of private property in the means of production and so in "consequence of [which] . . . [the] worker, when he is able to work, finds no acre to till, no machine to set in motion, unless he agrees to sell his labour for a sum inferior to its real value." [Peter Kropotkin, Kropotkin's Revolutionary Pamphlets, p. 55]

Therefore workers have to sell their labour on the market. However, as this "commodity" "cannot be separated from the person of the worker like pieces of property. The worker's capacities are developed over time and they form an integral part of his self and self-identity; capacities are internally not externally related to the person. Moreover, capacities or labour power cannot be used without the worker using his will, his understanding and experience, to put them into effect. The use of labour power requires the presence of its 'owner'. . . To contract for the use of labour power is a waste of resources unless it can be used in the way in which the new owner requires . . . The employment contract must, therefore, create a relationship of command and obedience between employer and worker." [Carole Pateman, The Sexual Contract, pp. 150-1]

So, "the contract in which the worker allegedly sells his labour power is a contract in which, since he cannot be separated from his capacities, he sells command over the use of his body and himself. . . The characteristics of this condition are captured in the term wage slave." [Ibid., p. 151] Or, to use Bakunin's words, "the worker sells his person and his liberty for a given time" and so "concluded for a term only and reserving to the worker the right to quit his employer, this contract constitutes a sort of voluntary and transitory serfdom." [The Political Philosophy of Bakunin, p. 187]

This domination is the source of the surplus, for "wage slavery is not a consequence of exploitation - exploitation is a consequence of the fact that the sale of labour power entails the worker's subordination. The employment contract creates the capitalist as master; he has the political right to determine how the labour of the worker will be used, and - consequently - can engage in exploitation." [Carole Pateman, Op. Cit., p. 149]

So profits exist because the worker sells themselves to the capitalist, who then owns their activity and, therefore, controls them (or, more accurately, tries to control them) like a machine. Benjamin Tucker's comments with regard to the claim that capital is entitled to a reward are of use here. He notes that some "combat. . . the doctrine that surplus value -- oftener called profits -- belong to the labourer because he creates it, by arguing that the horse. . . is rightly entitled to the surplus value which he creates for his owner. So he will be when he has the sense to claim and the power to take it. . . Th[is] argument . . is based upon the assumption that certain men are born owned by other men, just as horses are. Thus its reductio ad absurdum turns upon itself." [Instead of a Book, pp. 495-6]

In other words, to argue that capital should be rewarded is to implicitly assume that workers are just like machinery, another "factor of production" rather than human beings and the creator of things of value. So profits exists because during the working day the capitalist controls the activity and output of the worker (i.e. owns them during working hours as activity cannot be separated from the body and "[t]here is an integral relationship between the body and self. The body and self are not identical, but selves are inseparable from bodies." [Carole Pateman, Op. Cit., p. 206]).

Considered purely in terms of output, this results in, as Proudhon noted, workers working "for an entrepreneur who pays them and keeps their products." [quoted by Martin Buber, Paths in Utopia, p. 29] The ability of capitalists to maintain this kind of monopolisation of another's time and output is enshrined in "property rights" enforced by either public or private states. In short, therefore, property "is the right to enjoy and dispose at will of another's goods - the fruit of an other's industry and labour." [P-J Proudhon, What is Property, p. 171] And because of this "right," a worker's wage will always be less than the wealth that he or she produces.

The size of this surplus, the amount of unpaid labour, can be changed by changing the duration and intensity of work (i.e. by making workers labour longer and harder). If the duration of work is increased, the amount of surplus value is increased absolutely. If the intensity is increased, e.g. by innovation in the production process, then the amount of surplus value increases relatively (i.e. workers produce the equivalent of their wage sooner during their working day resulting in more unpaid labour for their boss).

Such surplus indicates that labour, like any other commodity, has a use value and an exchange value. Labour's exchange value is a worker's wages, its use value their ability to work, to do what the capitalist who buys it wants. Thus the existence of "surplus products" indicates that there is a difference between the exchange value of labour and its use value, that labour can potentially create more value than it receives back in wages. We stress potentially, because the extraction of use value from labour is not a simple operation like the extraction of so many joules of energy from a ton of coal. Labour power cannot be used without subjecting the labourer to the will of the capitalist - unlike other commodities, labour power remains inseparably embodied in human beings. Both the extraction of use value and the determination of exchange value for labour depends upon - and are profoundly modified by - the actions of workers. Neither the effort provided during an hours work, nor the time spent in work, nor the wage received in exchange for it, can be determined without taking into account the worker's resistance to being turned into a commodity, into an order taker. In other words, the amount of "surplus products" extracted from a worker is dependent upon the resistance to dehumanisation within the workplace, to the attempts by workers to resist the destruction of liberty during work hours.

Thus unpaid labour, the consequence of the authority relations explicit in private property, is the source of profits. Part of this surplus is used to enrich capitalists and another to increase capital, which in turn is used to increase profits, in an endless cycle (a cycle, however, which is not a steady increase but is subject to periodic disruption by recessions or depressions - "The business cycle.")

Does this mean capitalists are justified in appropriating a portion of surplus value for themselves (i.e. making a profit)?

In a word, no. As we will attempt to indicate, capitalists are not justified in appropriating surplus value from workers. No matter how this appropriation is explained by capitalist economics, we find that inequality in wealth and power are the real reasons for this appropriation rather than some actual productive act. Indeed, neo-classical economics reflects this truism. In the words of the noted left-wing economist Joan Robinson:

"the neo-classical theory did not contain a solution to the problems of profits or of the value of capital. They have erected a towering structure of mathematical theorems on a foundation that does not exist." [Contributions to Modern Economics, p. 186]

If profits are the result of private property and the inequality it produces, then it is unsurprising that neo-classical theory would be as foundationless as Robinson argues. After all, this is a political question and neo-classical economics was developed to ignore such questions. Here we indicate why this is the case and discuss the various rationales for capitalist profit in order to show why they are false.

Some consider that profit is the capitalist's "contribution" to the value of a commodity. However, as David Schweickart points out, "'providing capital' means nothing more than 'allowing it to be used.' But an act of granting permission, in and of itself, is not a productive activity. If labourers cease to labour, production ceases in any society. But if owners cease to grant permission, production is affected only if their authority over the means of production is respected." [Against Capitalism, p. 11] This authority, as discussed earlier, derives from the coercive mechanisms of the state, whose primary purpose is to ensure that capitalists have this ability to grant or deny workers access to the means of production. Therefore, not only is "providing capital" not a productive activity, it depends on a system of organised coercion which requires the appropriation of a considerable portion of the value produced by labour, through taxes, and hence is actually parasitic. Needless to say, rent can also be considered as "profit", being based purely on "granting permission" and so not a productive activity. The same can be said of interest, although the arguments are somewhat different.

Another problem with the capitalists' "contribution to production" argument is that one must either assume (a) a strict definition of who is the producer of something, in which case one must credit only the worker, or (b) a looser definition based on which individuals have contributed to the circumstances that made the productive work possible. Since the worker's productivity was made possible in part by the use of property supplied by the capitalist, one can thus credit the capitalist with "contributing to production" and so claim that he or she is entitled to a reward, i.e. profit.

However, if one assumes (b), one must then explain why the chain of credit should stop with the capitalist. Since all human activity takes place within a complex social network, many factors might be cited as contributing to the circumstances that allowed workers to produce -- e.g. their upbringing and education, the government maintained infrastructure that permits their place of employment to operate, and so on. Certainly the property of the capitalist contributed in this sense. But his contribution was less important than the work of, say, the worker's mother. Yet no capitalist, so far as we know, has proposed compensating workers' mothers with any share of the firm's revenues, and particularly not with a greater share than that received by capitalists! Plainly, however, if they followed their own logic consistently, capitalists would have to agree that such compensation would be fair.

Therefore, as capital is not autonomously productive and is the product of human (mental and physical) labour, anarchists reject the idea that providing capital is a productive act. As Proudhon pointed out, "Capital, tools, and machinery are likewise unproductive. . . The proprietor who asks to be rewarded for the use of a tool or for the productive power of his land, takes for granted, then, that which is radically false; namely, that capital produces by its own effort - and, in taking pay for this imaginary product, he literally receives something for nothing." [Op. Cit., p. 169].

Of course, it could be argued (and it frequently is) that capital makes work more productive and so the owner of capital should be "rewarded" for allowing its use. This, however, is a false conclusion, since providing capital is unlike normal commodity production. This is because capitalists, unlike workers, get paid multiple times for one piece of work (which, in all likelihood, they paid others to do) and keep the result of that labour. As Proudhon argued:

"He [the worker] who manufactures or repairs the farmer's tools receives the price once, either at the time of delivery, or in several payments; and when this price is once paid to the manufacturer, the tools which he has delivered belong to him no more. Never can he claim double payment for the same tool, or the same job of repairs. If he annually shares in the products of the farmer, it is owing to the fact that he annually does something for the farmer.

"The proprietor, on the contrary, does not yield his implement; eternally he is paid for it, eternally he keeps it." [Op. Cit., pp. 169-170]

Therefore, providing capital is not a productive act, and keeping the profits that are produced by those who actually do use capital is an act of theft. This does not mean, of course, that creating capital goods is not creative nor that it does not aid production. Far from it! But owning the outcome of such activity and renting it does not justify capitalism or profits.

Some supporters of capitalism claim that profits represent the productivity of capital. They argue that a worker is said to receive exactly what she has produced because (according to the neo-classical answer) if she ceases to work, the total product will decline by precisely the value of her wage. However, this argument has a flaw in it. This is because the total product will decline by more than that value if two or more workers leave. This is because the wage each worker receives under conditions of perfect competition is assumed to be the product of the last labourer in neo-classical theory. The neo-classical argument presumes a "declining marginal productivity," i.e. the marginal product of the last worker is assumed to be less than the second last and so on.

In other words, in neo-classical economics, all workers bar the mythical "last worker" do not receive the full product of their labour. They only receive what the last worker is claimed to produce and so everyone bar the last worker does not receive exactly what he or she produces. It looks like the neo-classical claim of no exploitation within capitalism seems invalidated by its own theory.

This is recognised by the theorists. Because of this declining marginal productivity, the contribution of labour is less than the total product. The difference is claimed to be precisely the contribution of capital. But what is this "contribution" of capital? Without any labourers there would be no output. In addition, in physical terms, the marginal product of capital is simply the amount by which production would decline is one piece of capital were taken out of production. It does not reflect any productive activity whatsoever on the part of the owner of said capital. It does not, therefore, measure his or her productive contribution. In other words, capitalist economics tries to confuse the owners of capital with the machinery they own.

Indeed, the notion that profits represent the contribution of capital is one that is shattered by the practice of "profit sharing." If profits were the contribution of capital, then sharing profits would mean that capital was not receiving its full "contribution" to production (and so was being exploited by labour!). Moreover, given that profit sharing is usually used as a technique to increase productivity and profits it seems strange that such a technique would be required if profits, in fact, did represent capital's "contribution." After all, the machinery which the workers are using is the same as before profit sharing was introduced -- how could this unchanged capital stock produce an increased "contribution"? It could only do so if, in fact, capital was unproductive and it was the unpaid efforts, skills and energy of workers' that actually was the source of profits. Thus the claim that profit equals capital's "contribution" has little basis in fact.

While it is true that the value invested in fixed capital is in the course of time transferred to the commodities produced by it and through their sale transformed into money, this does not represent any actual labour by the owners of capital. Anarchists reject the ideological sleight-of-hand that suggests otherwise and recognise that (mental and physical) labour is the only form of contribution that can be made by humans to a productive process. Without labour, nothing can be produced nor the value contained in fixed capital transferred to goods. As Charles A. Dana pointed out in his popular introduction to Proudhon's ideas, "[t]he labourer without capital would soon supply his wants by its production . . . but capital with no labourers to consume it can only lie useless and rot." [Proudhon and his "Bank of the People", p. 31] If workers do not get paid the full value of their contributions to the output they produce then they are exploited and so, as indicated, capitalism is based upon exploitation.

So, in and of themselves, fixed costs do not create value. Whether value is created depends on how investments are developed and used once in place. In the words of the English socialist Thomas Hodgskin:

"Fixed capital does not derive its utility from previous, but present labour; and does not bring its owner a profit because it has been stored up, but because it is a means of obtaining a command over labour." [Labour Defended against the Claims of Capital]

Which brings us back to labour (and the social relationships which exist within an economy) as the fundamental source of profits. Moreover the idea (so beloved by pro-capitalist economics) that a worker's wage is the equivalent of what she produces is one violated everyday within reality. As one economist critical of neo-classical dogma put it:

"Managers of a capitalist enterprise are not content simply to respond to the dictates of the market by equating the wage to the value of the marginal product of labour. Once the worker has entered the production process, the forces of the market have, for a time at least, been superseded. The effort-pay relation will depend not only on market relations of exchange but also. . . on the hierarchical relations of production - on the relative power of managers and workers within the enterprise." [William Lazonick, Business Organisation and the Myth of the Market Economy, pp. 184-5]

But, then again, capitalist economics is more concerned with justifying the status quo than being in touch with the real world. To claim that a workers wage represents her contribution and profit capital's is simply false. Capital cannot produce anything (nevermind a surplus) unless used by labour and so profits do not represent the productivity of capital.

Other common justifications of profit are based on claims about the "special abilities" of a select few, e.g. as "risk taking" or "creative" ability, and are equally unsound as the one just outlined.

As for risk taking, virtually all human activity involves risk. To claim that capitalists should be paid for the risks associated with investment is to implicitly state that money is more valuable that human life. Afterall, workers risk their health and often their lives in work and often the most dangerous workplaces are those associated with the lowest pay (safe working conditions can eat into profits and so to reward capitalist "risk", the risk workers face may actually increase). In the inverted world of capitalist ethics, it is usually cheaper (or more "efficient") to replace an individual worker than a capital investment.

Moreover, the risk theory of profit fails to take into account the different risk-taking abilities of that derive from the unequal distribution of society's wealth. As James Meade puts it, while "property owners can spread their risks by putting small bits of their property into a large number of concerns, a worker cannot easily put small bits of his effort into a large number of different jobs. This presumably is the main reason we find risk-bearing capital hiring labour" and not vice versa [quoted by David Schweickart, Op. Cit., pp. 129-130]. Needless to say, the most serious consequences of "risk" are usually suffered by working people who can lose their jobs, health and even lives. So, rather than individual evaluations determining "risk", these evaluations will be dependent on the class position of the individuals involved. Risk, therefore, is not an independent factor and so cannot be the source of profit. Indeed, as indicated, other activities can involve far more risk and be rewarded less.

As for the "creative" spirit which innovates profits into existence, it is true that individuals do see new potential and act in innovative ways to create new products or processes. However, this is not the source of profit.
The following is an excerpt from Atlas Shrugged, © Copyright, 1957, by Ayn Rand. It is reprinted with permission from the Estate of Ayn Rand.

"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Anconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?

"When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money. Not an ocean of tears not all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honor--your claim upon the energy of the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of money, Is this what you consider evil?

"Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at an electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but physical motions--and you'll learn that man's mind is the root of all the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth.

"But you say that money is made by the strong at the expense of the weak? What strength do you mean? It is not the strength of guns or muscles. Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. Then is money made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who did not invent it? Is money made by the intelligent at the expense of the fools? By the able at the expense of the incompetent? By the ambitious at the expense of the lazy? Money is made--before it can be looted or mooched--made by the effort of every honest man, each to the extent of his ability. An honest man is one who knows that he can't consume more than he has produced.'

"To trade by means of money is the code of the men of good will. Money rests on the axiom that every man is the owner of his mind and his effort. Money allows no power to prescribe the value of your effort except the voluntary choice of the man who is willing to trade you his effort in return. Money permits you to obtain for your goods and your labor that which they are worth to the men who buy them, but no more. Money permits no deals except those to mutual benefit by the unforced judgment of the traders. Money demands of you the recognition that men must work for their own benefit, not for their own injury, for their gain, not their loss--the recognition that they are not beasts of burden, born to carry the weight of your misery--that you must offer them values, not wounds--that the common bond among men is not the exchange of suffering, but the exchange of goods. Money demands that you sell, not your weakness to men's stupidity, but your talent to their reason; it demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, but the best that your money can find. And when men live by trade--with reason, not force, as their final arbiter--it is the best product that wins, the best performance, the man of best judgment and highest ability--and the degree of a man's productiveness is the degree of his reward. This is the code of existence whose tool and symbol is money. Is this what you consider evil?

"But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means for the satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with desires. Money is the scourge of the men who attempt to reverse the law of causality--the men who seek to replace the mind by seizing the products of the mind.

"Money will not purchase happiness for the man who has no concept of what he wants: money will not give him a code of values, if he's evaded the knowledge of what to value, and it will not provide him with a purpose, if he's evaded the choice of what to seek. Money will not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward, or respect for the incompetent. The man who attempts to purchase the brains of his superiors to serve him, with his money replacing his judgment, ends up by becoming the victim of his inferiors. The men of intelligence desert him, but the cheats and the frauds come flocking to him, drawn by a law which he has not discovered: that no man may be smaller than his money. Is this the reason why you call it evil?

"Only the man who does not need it, is fit to inherit wealth--the man who would make his own fortune no matter where he started. If an heir is equal to his money, it serves him; if not, it destroys him. But you look on and you cry that money corrupted him. Did it? Or did he corrupt his money? Do not envy a worthless heir; his wealth is not yours and you would have done no better with it. Do not think that it should have been distributed among you; loading the world with fifty parasites instead of one, would not bring back the dead virtue which was the fortune. Money is a living power that dies without its root. Money will not serve the mind that cannot match it. Is this the reason why you call it evil?

"Money is your means of survival. The verdict you pronounce upon the source of your livelihood is the verdict you pronounce upon your life. If the source is corrupt, you have damned your own existence. Did you get your money by fraud? By pandering to men's vices or men's stupidity? By catering to fools, in the hope of getting more than your ability deserves? By lowering your standards? By doing work you despise for purchasers you scorn? If so, then your money will not give you a moment's or a penny's worth of joy. Then all the things you buy will become, not a tribute to you, but a reproach; not an achievement, but a reminder of shame. Then you'll scream that money is evil. Evil, because it would not pinch-hit for your self-respect? Evil, because it would not let you enjoy your depravity? Is this the root of your hatred of money?

"Money will always remain an effect and refuse to replace you as the cause. Money is the product of virtue, but it will not give you virtue and it will not redeem your vices. Money will not give you the unearned, neither in matter nor in spirit. Is this the root of your hatred of money?

"Or did you say it's the love of money that's the root of all evil? To love a thing is to know and love its nature. To love money is to know and love the fact that money is the creation of the best power within you, and your passkey to trade your effort for the effort of the best among men. It's the person who would sell his soul for a nickel, who is loudest in proclaiming his hatred of money--and he has good reason to hate it. The lovers of money are willing to work for it. They know they are able to deserve it.

"Let me give you a tip on a clue to men's characters: the man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.

"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another--their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun.

"But money demands of you the highest virtues, if you wish to make it or to keep it. Men who have no courage, pride or self-esteem, men who have no moral sense of their right to their money and are not willing to defend it as they defend their life, men who apologize for being rich--will not remain rich for long. They are the natural bait for the swarms of looters that stay under rocks for centuries, but come crawling out at the first smell of a man who begs to be forgiven for the guilt of owning wealth. They will hasten to relieve him of the guilt--and of his life, as he deserves.

"Then you will see the rise of the men of the double standard--the men who live by force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the value of their looted money--the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. In a moral society, these are the criminals, and the statutes are written to protect you against them. But when a society establishes criminals-by-right and looters-by-law--men who use force to seize the wealth of disarmed victims--then money becomes its creators' avenger. Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless men, once they've passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they got it. Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

"Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion--when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing--when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors--when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you--when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice--you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that is does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.

"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked, 'Account overdrawn.'

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, 'Who is destroying the world? You are.

"You stand in the midst of the greatest achievements of the greatest productive civilization and you wonder why it's crumbling around you, while you're damning its life-blood--money. You look upon money as the savages did before you, and you wonder why the jungle is creeping back to the edge of your cities. Throughout men's history, money was always seized by looters of one brand or another, whose names changed, but whose method remained the same: to seize wealth by force and to keep the producers bound, demeaned, defamed, deprived of honor. That phrase about the evil of money, which you mouth with such righteous recklessness, comes from a time when wealth was produced by the labor of slaves--slaves who repeated the motions once discovered by somebody's mind and left unimproved for centuries. So long as production was ruled by force, and wealth was obtained by conquest, there was little to conquer, Yet through all the centuries of stagnation and starvation, men exalted the looters, as aristocrats of the sword, as aristocrats of birth, as aristocrats of the bureau, and despised the producers, as slaves, as traders, as shopkeepers--as industrialists.

"To the glory of mankind, there was, for the first and only time in history, a country of money--and I have no higher, more reverent tribute to pay to America, for this means: a country of reason, justice, freedom, production, achievement. For the first time, man's mind and money were set free, and there were no fortunes-by-conquest, but only fortunes-by-work, and instead of swordsmen and slaves, there appeared the real maker of wealth, the greatest worker, the highest type of human being--the self-made man--the American industrialist.

"If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose--because it contains all the others--the fact that they were the people who created the phrase 'to make money.' No other language or nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of wealth as a static quantity--to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, looted or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created. The words 'to make money' hold the essence of human morality.

"Yet these were the words for which Americans were denounced by the rotted cultures of the looters' continents. Now the looters' credo has brought you to regard your proudest achievements as a hallmark of shame, your prosperity as guilt, your greatest men, the industrialists, as blackguards, and your magnificent factories as the product and property of muscular labor, the labor of whip-driven slaves, like the pyramids of Egypt. The rotter who simpers that he sees no difference between the power of the dollar and the power of the whip, ought to learn the difference on his own hide-- as, I think, he will.

"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns--or dollars. Take your choice--there is no other--and your time is running out."

LSD
6th January 2006, 03:30
The following is an excerpt from Atlas Shrugged, © Copyright, 1957, by Ayn Rand. It is reprinted with permission from the Estate of Ayn Rand.

You really contacted the estate of Ayn Rand before making this post?

...or did you just commit intellectual theft!? :o

L Mises
6th January 2006, 03:40
Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 03:41 AM

The following is an excerpt from Atlas Shrugged, © Copyright, 1957, by Ayn Rand. It is reprinted with permission from the Estate of Ayn Rand.

You really contacted the estate of Ayn Rand before making this post?

...or did you just commit intellectual theft!? :o
Ahhh did I not cite the source.

JKP
6th January 2006, 03:40
You may want to actually read the article. It refuted your excerpt before you even posted it.

Also, bringing in Rand hurts your case instead of helping it. I surmise our resident cappie, Publius, is going to agree.

LSD
6th January 2006, 03:45
Ahhh did I not cite the source.

That's insufficient.

You violated copyright by reprinting material without the permisson of the author.

You have stolen the intellectual property of Ayn Rand.

And while prosecution is highly unlikely, I just thought you'd want to know that you are an exposed hypocrite.

For your own good. :)

L Mises
6th January 2006, 03:45
I did read yours and maybe you should read mine.

JKP
6th January 2006, 03:54
Originally posted by L [email protected] 5 2006, 07:56 PM
I did read yours and maybe you should read mine.
Yes I read it.

However I'm curious how Rand's near meta-physical subjectivism relates to the issue of how value is generated.

L Mises
6th January 2006, 04:03
Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 03:56 AM

Ahhh did I not cite the source.

That's insufficient.

You violated copyright by reprinting material without the permisson of the author.

You have stolen the intellectual property of Ayn Rand.

And while prosecution is highly unlikely, I just thought you'd want to know that you are an exposed hypocrite.

For your own good. :)
No, you are allowed to cite things as you give credit to where it is due. Ever heard of research papers? Copyright infinment would be me printing that speech and then selling it or modifying/talking it out of context.

LSD
6th January 2006, 04:25
You didn't "cite" that passage, you reprinted it.

Not only that, but you falsely claimed that you have been given "permission" to do so! :lol:

For someone so interested in the "market", you seem to be woefully ignorant of copyright laws. You can reference copyrighted works if you give credit, but you cannot copy whole passages without written permission of the publisher.

That's called theft.

L Mises
6th January 2006, 04:53
As mentioned in the last section, profits are the driving force of capitalism. If a profit cannot be made, a good is not produced, regardless of how many people "subjectively value" it. But where do profits come from?

Care to explain VOLUNATARY PRIVATE CHARTITIES?

In order to make more money, money must be transformed into capital, i.e., workplaces, machinery and other "capital goods." By itself, however, capital (like money) produces nothing. Capital only becomes productive in the labour process when workers use capital ("Neither property nor capital produces anything when not fertilised by labour" - Bakunin). Under capitalism, workers not only create sufficient value (i.e. produced commodities) to maintain existing capital and their own existence, they also produce a surplus. This surplus expresses itself as a surplus of goods, i.e. an excess of commodities compared to the number a workers' wages could buy back. Thus Proudhon:

Therefore assets such as houses are no value to anyone. Hey, I should able to pick up lots of commodities for gold/silver contracts at the Chicago markets for no charge. The excess is created because of specialized labor, comparative advantage, and free trade, because self-autonomy is much more difficult and inefficent. The value of the workers work is subjected to the market conditions of supply and demand. Work does not have an innate fix value. Suggesting that workers effort and time are more valuable than the products is flawed. The worker has voluntary exchanged time and effort for their salary. How would this be any different under a communism system? If the workers only produce what they need; there is no excess which makes specialized labor impossible as they cannot consume the excess anyway.

"The working man cannot. . . repurchase that which he has produced for his master. It is thus with all trades whatsoever. . . since, producing for a master who in one form or another makes a profit, they are obliged to pay more for their own labour than they get for it." [What is Property, p. 189]

In other words, the price of all produced goods is greater than the money value represented by the workers' wages (plus raw materials and overheads such as wear and tear on machinery) when those goods were produced. The labour contained in these "surplus-products" is the source of profit, which has to be realised on the market. (In practice, of course, the value represented by these surplus-products is distributed throughout all the commodities produced in the form of profit -- the difference between the cost price and the market price).

Again the time and efforts of the workers along with the products produced are set by market conditions and do not have an universal fixed value. I could spend countless hourless producing something that no one wants or desire so in terms of montary value that object is worthless despite the amount of time and effort that I invested int it.

Obviously, pro-capitalist economics argue against this theory of how a surplus arises. However, one example will suffice here to see why labour is the source of a surplus, rather than (say) "waiting", risk or capital (these arguments, and others, will be discussed below). A good poker-player uses equipment (capital), takes risks, delays gratification, engages in strategic behaviour, tries new tricks (innovates), not to mention cheats, and earns large winnings (and can even do so repeatedly). But no surplus product results from such behaviour; the gambler's winnings are simply redistributions from others with no new production occurring. Thus, risk-taking, abstinence, entrepreneurship, etc. might be necessary for an individual to receive profits but are far from sufficient for them not to be the result a pure redistribution from others (a redistribution, we may add, which can only occur under capitalism if workers produce goods to sell).

Zeo sum theory. If that were true that the human population would have not been able to grown to the size that it is today which is bigger than when it started. It should survive only with the food it started with which would be zero. The Human Race would be completely wiped out. If you read my article you would realize that money is created before it can be seized or redistrubted. In order for me to steal a car; the car would have to created first.

Thus, in order for a profit to be generated within capitalism two things are required. Firstly, a group of workers to work the available capital. Secondly, that they must produce more value than they are paid in wages. If only the first condition is present, all that occurs is that social wealth is redistributed between individuals. With the second condition, a surplus proper is generated. In both cases, however, workers are exploited for without their labour there would be no goods to facilitate a redistribution of existing wealth nor surplus products.

How about the most important condition like someone willing to pay for it.

The surplus value produced by labour is divided between profits, interest and rent (or, more correctly, between the owners of the various factors of production other than labour). In practice, this surplus is used by the owners of capital for: (a) investment (b) to pay themselves dividends on their stock, if any; © to pay for rent and interest payments; and (d) to pay their executives and managers (who are sometimes identical with the owners themselves) much higher salaries than workers. As the surplus is being divided between different groups of capitalists, this means that there can be clashes of interest between (say) industrial capitalists and finance capitalists. For example, a rise in interest rates can squeeze industrial capitalists by directing more of the surplus from them into the hands of rentiers. Such a rise could cause business failures and so a slump (indeed, rising interest rates is a key way of regulating working class power by generating unemployment to discipline workers by fear of the sack). The surplus, like the labour used to reproduce existing capital, is embodied in the finished commodity and is realised once it is sold. This means that workers do not receive the full value of their labour, since the surplus appropriated by owners for investment, etc. represents value added to commodities by workers -- value for which they are not paid.

"I like how Marxists completely ignore price and their inability to caculate it."


So capitalist profits (as well as rent and interest payments) are in essence unpaid labour, and hence capitalism is based on exploitation. As Proudhon noted, "Products, say economists, are only bought by products. This maxim is property's condemnation. The proprietor producing neither by his own labour nor by his implement, and receiving products in exchange for nothing, is either a parasite or a thief." [Op. Cit., p. 170] It is this appropriation of wealth from the worker by the owner which differentiates capitalism from the simple commodity production of artisan and peasant economies. All anarchists agree with Bakunin when he stated that:

"what is property, what is capital in their present form? For the capitalist and the property owner they mean the power and the right, guaranteed by the State, to live without working. . . [and so] the power and right to live by exploiting the work of someone else . . . those . . . [who are] forced to sell their productive power to the lucky owners of both." [The Political Philosophy of Bakunin, p. 180]

Property is an exclusive right to a resource by law. The reverse of this coin is leechers and parasites mooching of your fruits of labor.

Obviously supporters of capitalism disagree. Profits are not the product of exploitation and workers, capitalists and landlords get paid the value of their contributions to output, they say. A few even talk about "making money work for you" (as if pieces of paper can actually do any form of work!) while, obviously, human beings have to do the actual work (and usually for money). However, all agree that capitalism is not exploitative (no matter how exploitative it may look) and present various arguments why capitalists deserve to keep the products others make. This section of the FAQ presents some of the reasons why anarchists reject this claim.

Lastly, we would like to point out that some apologists for capitalism cite the empirical fact that, in a modern capitalist economy, a large majority of all income goes to "labour," with profit, interest and rent adding up to something under twenty percent of the total. Of course, even if surplus value was less than 20% of a workers' output, this does not change its exploitative nature. These apologists of capitalism do not say that taxation stops being "theft" just because it is around 10% of all income. However, this value for profit, interest and rent is based on a statistical sleight-of-hand, as "worker" is defined as including everyone who has a salary in a company, including managers and CEOs (income to "labour" includes both wages and salaries, in other words). The large incomes which many managers and all CEOs receive would, of course, ensure that a large majority of all income does go to "labour." Thus this "fact" ignores the role of most managers as de facto capitalists and exploiters of surplus value and ignores the changes in industry that have occurred in the last 50 years.

To get a better picture of the nature of exploitation within modern capitalism we have to compare workers wages to their productivity. According to the World Bank, in 1966, US manufacturing wages were equal to 46% of the value-added in production (value-added is the difference between selling price and the costs of raw materials and other inputs to the production process). In 1990, that figure had fallen to 36% and (using figures from 1992 Economic Census of the US Census Bureau) by 1992 it had reached 19.76% (39.24% if we take the total payroll which includes managers and so on). In the US construction industry, wages were 35.4% of value added in 1992 (with total payroll, 50.18%). Therefore the argument that because a large percentage of income goes to "labour" capitalism is fine hides the realities of that system and the exploitation its hierarchical nature creates.


We now move on to why this surplus value exists.


It is the nature of capitalism for the monopolisation of the worker's product by others to exist. This is because of private property in the means of production and so in "consequence of [which] . . . [the] worker, when he is able to work, finds no acre to till, no machine to set in motion, unless he agrees to sell his labour for a sum inferior to its real value." [Peter Kropotkin, Kropotkin's Revolutionary Pamphlets, p. 55]

Therefore workers have to sell their labour on the market. However, as this "commodity" "cannot be separated from the person of the worker like pieces of property. The worker's capacities are developed over time and they form an integral part of his self and self-identity; capacities are internally not externally related to the person. Moreover, capacities or labour power cannot be used without the worker using his will, his understanding and experience, to put them into effect. The use of labour power requires the presence of its 'owner'. . . To contract for the use of labour power is a waste of resources unless it can be used in the way in which the new owner requires . . . The employment contract must, therefore, create a relationship of command and obedience between employer and worker." [Carole Pateman, The Sexual Contract, pp. 150-1]

So, "the contract in which the worker allegedly sells his labour power is a contract in which, since he cannot be separated from his capacities, he sells command over the use of his body and himself. . . The characteristics of this condition are captured in the term wage slave." [Ibid., p. 151] Or, to use Bakunin's words, "the worker sells his person and his liberty for a given time" and so "concluded for a term only and reserving to the worker the right to quit his employer, this contract constitutes a sort of voluntary and transitory serfdom." [The Political Philosophy of Bakunin, p. 187]

This domination is the source of the surplus, for "wage slavery is not a consequence of exploitation - exploitation is a consequence of the fact that the sale of labour power entails the worker's subordination. The employment contract creates the capitalist as master; he has the political right to determine how the labour of the worker will be used, and - consequently - can engage in exploitation." [Carole Pateman, Op. Cit., p. 149]

So profits exist because the worker sells themselves to the capitalist, who then owns their activity and, therefore, controls them (or, more accurately, tries to control them) like a machine. Benjamin Tucker's comments with regard to the claim that capital is entitled to a reward are of use here. He notes that some "combat. . . the doctrine that surplus value -- oftener called profits -- belong to the labourer because he creates it, by arguing that the horse. . . is rightly entitled to the surplus value which he creates for his owner. So he will be when he has the sense to claim and the power to take it. . . Th[is] argument . . is based upon the assumption that certain men are born owned by other men, just as horses are. Thus its reductio ad absurdum turns upon itself." [Instead of a Book, pp. 495-6]

In other words, to argue that capital should be rewarded is to implicitly assume that workers are just like machinery, another "factor of production" rather than human beings and the creator of things of value. So profits exists because during the working day the capitalist controls the activity and output of the worker (i.e. owns them during working hours as activity cannot be separated from the body and "[t]here is an integral relationship between the body and self. The body and self are not identical, but selves are inseparable from bodies." [Carole Pateman, Op. Cit., p. 206]).

Again more rambling about labor having innate value. Being human does not make you immune to market conditions and more importantly reality either does your flawed your economic idealogy. I like how this disregards technological innovation and strategical planning. Yes, workers can coordinate their works and effort with the perfect efficent in complete harmony. A manager adds no value. Since our muscles do all the movement; let's get rid of our brains.

Considered purely in terms of output, this results in, as Proudhon noted, workers working "for an entrepreneur who pays them and keeps their products." [quoted by Martin Buber, Paths in Utopia, p. 29] The ability of capitalists to maintain this kind of monopolisation of another's time and output is enshrined in "property rights" enforced by either public or private states. In short, therefore, property "is the right to enjoy and dispose at will of another's goods - the fruit of an other's industry and labour." [P-J Proudhon, What is Property, p. 171] And because of this "right," a worker's wage will always be less than the wealth that he or she produces.

The size of this surplus, the amount of unpaid labour, can be changed by changing the duration and intensity of work (i.e. by making workers labour longer and harder). If the duration of work is increased, the amount of surplus value is increased absolutely. If the intensity is increased, e.g. by innovation in the production process, then the amount of surplus value increases relatively (i.e. workers produce the equivalent of their wage sooner during their working day resulting in more unpaid labour for their boss).

Why should workers be compensated for improved innovations unless it was the worker's idea? They have put in no additional input into the process. Again, these thoughts are geared toward people in the industrial age. Haven't anyone taken a class on marketing. Functions as Promotion, Distrubution, Product Development, and Marketing are not required and therefore have no value. A buyer will magically appear to buy your product for a fixed price. Perfect logic. :rolleyes:

Such surplus indicates that labour, like any other commodity, has a use value and an exchange value. Labour's exchange value is a worker's wages, its use value their ability to work, to do what the capitalist who buys it wants. Thus the existence of "surplus products" indicates that there is a difference between the exchange value of labour and its use value, that labour can potentially create more value than it receives back in wages. We stress potentially, because the extraction of use value from labour is not a simple operation like the extraction of so many joules of energy from a ton of coal. Labour power cannot be used without subjecting the labourer to the will of the capitalist - unlike other commodities, labour power remains inseparably embodied in human beings. Both the extraction of use value and the determination of exchange value for labour depends upon - and are profoundly modified by - the actions of workers. Neither the effort provided during an hours work, nor the time spent in work, nor the wage received in exchange for it, can be determined without taking into account the worker's resistance to being turned into a commodity, into an order taker. In other words, the amount of "surplus products" extracted from a worker is dependent upon the resistance to dehumanisation within the workplace, to the attempts by workers to resist the destruction of liberty during work hours.

Tired of using the price agrument. Let's try another, ff labor has so much "value" and is greater than the products produced People then should have the ability to produce products out of thin air. Factors such as raw material cost, machinery, and strategic planning are not required.

Thus unpaid labour, the consequence of the authority relations explicit in private property, is the source of profits. Part of this surplus is used to enrich capitalists and another to increase capital, which in turn is used to increase profits, in an endless cycle (a cycle, however, which is not a steady increase but is subject to periodic disruption by recessions or depressions - "The business cycle.")

Does this mean capitalists are justified in appropriating a portion of surplus value for themselves (i.e. making a profit)?

In a word, no. As we will attempt to indicate, capitalists are not justified in appropriating surplus value from workers. No matter how this appropriation is explained by capitalist economics, we find that inequality in wealth and power are the real reasons for this appropriation rather than some actual productive act. Indeed, neo-classical economics reflects this truism. In the words of the noted left-wing economist Joan Robinson:

"the neo-classical theory did not contain a solution to the problems of profits or of the value of capital. They have erected a towering structure of mathematical theorems on a foundation that does not exist." [Contributions to Modern Economics, p. 186]

If profits are the result of private property and the inequality it produces, then it is unsurprising that neo-classical theory would be as foundationless as Robinson argues. After all, this is a political question and neo-classical economics was developed to ignore such questions. Here we indicate why this is the case and discuss the various rationales for capitalist profit in order to show why they are false.

Some consider that profit is the capitalist's "contribution" to the value of a commodity. However, as David Schweickart points out, "'providing capital' means nothing more than 'allowing it to be used.' But an act of granting permission, in and of itself, is not a productive activity. If labourers cease to labour, production ceases in any society. But if owners cease to grant permission, production is affected only if their authority over the means of production is respected." [Against Capitalism, p. 11] This authority, as discussed earlier, derives from the coercive mechanisms of the state, whose primary purpose is to ensure that capitalists have this ability to grant or deny workers access to the means of production. Therefore, not only is "providing capital" not a productive activity, it depends on a system of organised coercion which requires the appropriation of a considerable portion of the value produced by labour, through taxes, and hence is actually parasitic. Needless to say, rent can also be considered as "profit", being based purely on "granting permission" and so not a productive activity. The same can be said of interest, although the arguments are somewhat different.

Another problem with the capitalists' "contribution to production" argument is that one must either assume (a) a strict definition of who is the producer of something, in which case one must credit only the worker, or (b) a looser definition based on which individuals have contributed to the circumstances that made the productive work possible. Since the worker's productivity was made possible in part by the use of property supplied by the capitalist, one can thus credit the capitalist with "contributing to production" and so claim that he or she is entitled to a reward, i.e. profit.

However, if one assumes (b), one must then explain why the chain of credit should stop with the capitalist. Since all human activity takes place within a complex social network, many factors might be cited as contributing to the circumstances that allowed workers to produce -- e.g. their upbringing and education, the government maintained infrastructure that permits their place of employment to operate, and so on. Certainly the property of the capitalist contributed in this sense. But his contribution was less important than the work of, say, the worker's mother. Yet no capitalist, so far as we know, has proposed compensating workers' mothers with any share of the firm's revenues, and particularly not with a greater share than that received by capitalists! Plainly, however, if they followed their own logic consistently, capitalists would have to agree that such compensation would be fair.

Therefore, as capital is not autonomously productive and is the product of human (mental and physical) labour, anarchists reject the idea that providing capital is a productive act. As Proudhon pointed out, "Capital, tools, and machinery are likewise unproductive. . . The proprietor who asks to be rewarded for the use of a tool or for the productive power of his land, takes for granted, then, that which is radically false; namely, that capital produces by its own effort - and, in taking pay for this imaginary product, he literally receives something for nothing." [Op. Cit., p. 169].

Of course, it could be argued (and it frequently is) that capital makes work more productive and so the owner of capital should be "rewarded" for allowing its use. This, however, is a false conclusion, since providing capital is unlike normal commodity production. This is because capitalists, unlike workers, get paid multiple times for one piece of work (which, in all likelihood, they paid others to do) and keep the result of that labour. As Proudhon argued:

"He [the worker] who manufactures or repairs the farmer's tools receives the price once, either at the time of delivery, or in several payments; and when this price is once paid to the manufacturer, the tools which he has delivered belong to him no more. Never can he claim double payment for the same tool, or the same job of repairs. If he annually shares in the products of the farmer, it is owing to the fact that he annually does something for the farmer.

"The proprietor, on the contrary, does not yield his implement; eternally he is paid for it, eternally he keeps it." [Op. Cit., pp. 169-170]

Therefore, providing capital is not a productive act, and keeping the profits that are produced by those who actually do use capital is an act of theft. This does not mean, of course, that creating capital goods is not creative nor that it does not aid production. Far from it! But owning the outcome of such activity and renting it does not justify capitalism or profits.

Some supporters of capitalism claim that profits represent the productivity of capital. They argue that a worker is said to receive exactly what she has produced because (according to the neo-classical answer) if she ceases to work, the total product will decline by precisely the value of her wage. However, this argument has a flaw in it. This is because the total product will decline by more than that value if two or more workers leave. This is because the wage each worker receives under conditions of perfect competition is assumed to be the product of the last labourer in neo-classical theory. The neo-classical argument presumes a "declining marginal productivity," i.e. the marginal product of the last worker is assumed to be less than the second last and so on.

In other words, in neo-classical economics, all workers bar the mythical "last worker" do not receive the full product of their labour. They only receive what the last worker is claimed to produce and so everyone bar the last worker does not receive exactly what he or she produces. It looks like the neo-classical claim of no exploitation within capitalism seems invalidated by its own theory.

This is recognised by the theorists. Because of this declining marginal productivity, the contribution of labour is less than the total product. The difference is claimed to be precisely the contribution of capital. But what is this "contribution" of capital? Without any labourers there would be no output. In addition, in physical terms, the marginal product of capital is simply the amount by which production would decline is one piece of capital were taken out of production. It does not reflect any productive activity whatsoever on the part of the owner of said capital. It does not, therefore, measure his or her productive contribution. In other words, capitalist economics tries to confuse the owners of capital with the machinery they own.

Indeed, the notion that profits represent the contribution of capital is one that is shattered by the practice of "profit sharing." If profits were the contribution of capital, then sharing profits would mean that capital was not receiving its full "contribution" to production (and so was being exploited by labour!). Moreover, given that profit sharing is usually used as a technique to increase productivity and profits it seems strange that such a technique would be required if profits, in fact, did represent capital's "contribution." After all, the machinery which the workers are using is the same as before profit sharing was introduced -- how could this unchanged capital stock produce an increased "contribution"? It could only do so if, in fact, capital was unproductive and it was the unpaid efforts, skills and energy of workers' that actually was the source of profits. Thus the claim that profit equals capital's "contribution" has little basis in fact.

While it is true that the value invested in fixed capital is in the course of time transferred to the commodities produced by it and through their sale transformed into money, this does not represent any actual labour by the owners of capital. Anarchists reject the ideological sleight-of-hand that suggests otherwise and recognise that (mental and physical) labour is the only form of contribution that can be made by humans to a productive process. Without labour, nothing can be produced nor the value contained in fixed capital transferred to goods. As Charles A. Dana pointed out in his popular introduction to Proudhon's ideas, "[t]he labourer without capital would soon supply his wants by its production . . . but capital with no labourers to consume it can only lie useless and rot." [Proudhon and his "Bank of the People", p. 31] If workers do not get paid the full value of their contributions to the output they produce then they are exploited and so, as indicated, capitalism is based upon exploitation.

So, in and of themselves, fixed costs do not create value. Whether value is created depends on how investments are developed and used once in place. In the words of the English socialist Thomas Hodgskin:

"Fixed capital does not derive its utility from previous, but present labour; and does not bring its owner a profit because it has been stored up, but because it is a means of obtaining a command over labour." [Labour Defended against the Claims of Capital]

Which brings us back to labour (and the social relationships which exist within an economy) as the fundamental source of profits. Moreover the idea (so beloved by pro-capitalist economics) that a worker's wage is the equivalent of what she produces is one violated everyday within reality. As one economist critical of neo-classical dogma put it:

"Managers of a capitalist enterprise are not content simply to respond to the dictates of the market by equating the wage to the value of the marginal product of labour. Once the worker has entered the production process, the forces of the market have, for a time at least, been superseded. The effort-pay relation will depend not only on market relations of exchange but also. . . on the hierarchical relations of production - on the relative power of managers and workers within the enterprise." [William Lazonick, Business Organisation and the Myth of the Market Economy, pp. 184-5]

But, then again, capitalist economics is more concerned with justifying the status quo than being in touch with the real world. To claim that a workers wage represents her contribution and profit capital's is simply false. Capital cannot produce anything (nevermind a surplus) unless used by labour and so profits do not represent the productivity of capital.

Other common justifications of profit are based on claims about the "special abilities" of a select few, e.g. as "risk taking" or "creative" ability, and are equally unsound as the one just outlined.

As for risk taking, virtually all human activity involves risk. To claim that capitalists should be paid for the risks associated with investment is to implicitly state that money is more valuable that human life. Afterall, workers risk their health and often their lives in work and often the most dangerous workplaces are those associated with the lowest pay (safe working conditions can eat into profits and so to reward capitalist "risk", the risk workers face may actually increase). In the inverted world of capitalist ethics, it is usually cheaper (or more "efficient") to replace an individual worker than a capital investment.

Moreover, the risk theory of profit fails to take into account the different risk-taking abilities of that derive from the unequal distribution of society's wealth. As James Meade puts it, while "property owners can spread their risks by putting small bits of their property into a large number of concerns, a worker cannot easily put small bits of his effort into a large number of different jobs. This presumably is the main reason we find risk-bearing capital hiring labour" and not vice versa [quoted by David Schweickart, Op. Cit., pp. 129-130]. Needless to say, the most serious consequences of "risk" are usually suffered by working people who can lose their jobs, health and even lives. So, rather than individual evaluations determining "risk", these evaluations will be dependent on the class position of the individuals involved. Risk, therefore, is not an independent factor and so cannot be the source of profit. Indeed, as indicated, other activities can involve far more risk and be rewarded less.

Ever heard of Henry Ford? The real reason why he doubled the salaries of his workers was to reduce labor costs. It cost Ford about 900 dollars to retrain an employee and the low salary resulted in high turn-overs. So increasing the salaries of his elminated the high turnoever rates which led to lower production costs. Again, much of what was mentioned above only applies to old factories jobs. Try telling any human resource department or any knowledge businessman about how much cheaper to replace the company's engineer working on an innovative new product As for the logic, all risk taking is equal. So you see no difference between a complete moron jumping off a bridge versus someone attempting to run a business.

As for the "creative" spirit which innovates profits into existence, it is true that individuals do see new potential and act in innovative ways to create new products or processes. However, this is not the source of profit.

Profit is a powerful incentives for innovation.

Happy now? Mystic

L Mises
6th January 2006, 04:59
Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2006, 04:36 AM
You didn't "cite" that passage, you reprinted it.

Not only that, but you falsely claimed that you have been given "permission" to do so! :lol:

For someone so interested in the "market", you seem to be woefully ignorant of copyright laws. You can reference copyrighted works if you give credit, but you cannot copy whole passages without written permission of the publisher.

That's called theft.
Why did you not see the quotes at all? I copy and paste the article from a website. That was where the permission thing was from. And actually the Rand Institute which own the rights to Rand's work has already given the public the right to use her work. Notice it says reprint which means paper format. Plus I can always use the traditional it is for education excuse.

LSD
6th January 2006, 05:22
And actually the Rand Institute which own the rights to Rand's work has already given the public the right to use her work.

Well...actually...no.


Originally posted by The Ayn Rand Institute
Where do I send a request for permission to reprint an article or essay by Miss Rand?
Send reprint requests and questions concerning rights to: Estate of Ayn Rand, c/o The Ayn Rand Institute, 2121 Alton Pkwy, Suite 250, Irvine, CA, 92606. Inquiries will be forwarded to the Estate for consideration. ARI does not own the copyrights to Ayn Rand's books.
http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pag..._index#write_q4 (http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=faq_index#write_q4)


Notice it says reprint which means paper format.

:lol:

What, are you living in 1957?

Reprint means any reproduction, electronic or otherwise.

People are sued all the time for uploading copyrighted works onto the internet.


Plus I can always use the traditional it is for education excuse.

I don't know how "traditional" an excuse it is, but it's still utter bullshit.

There is no "educational" exemption to copyright law. There is "fair use", but that generally does not extend to copying sizable portions of fiction works ...as you did here.

No matter which way you cut it, you violated Mrs. Rand's copyright by stealing her intellectual property.

She would be so dissapointed in you... :(

L Mises
6th January 2006, 05:40
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

Btw the speech was part of a 900 page book. 1, 3, and 4 of Section 107 are on my side. Not sure what section 2 means?

LSD
6th January 2006, 05:52
Btw the speech was part of a 900 page book.

I'm well aware of that.

I read Atlas Shrugged a few years back ...worst 1200 pages of my life! :lol:


1, 3, and 4 of Section 107 are on my side.

Subsections 1 and 4 are on your side, subsections 2 and 3 are not.

Courts have generally held that quoting from fiction works does not consitute a technical use and the amount that you quoted is definitely in excess of what is typically allowed.

If you read the commentary in the link you provided, you will see that your use does not meet their criteria. If this were before a court, you would almost certainly lose.

For someone who is so adament about "property rights", you must admit that it is somewhat ironic that you so casually trampelled on someone eles's.

Yet another example of the counterintuitive nature and restrictive quality of capitalist "rights".

JKP
6th January 2006, 20:39
Originally posted by L [email protected] 5 2006, 09:04 PM

Profit is a powerful incentives for innovation.




Why does innovation occur and how does it affect profits?

There is a given amount of surplus value in existence within the economy at any one time. How this surplus is created by or divided between firms is determined by competition, within which innovation plays an important role.

Innovation occurs in order to expand profits and so survive competition from other companies. While profits can be generated in circulation (for example by oligopolistic competition or inflation) this can only occur at the expense of other people or capitals. Innovation, however, allows the generation of profits directly from the new or increased productivity (i.e. exploitation) of labour. This is because it is in production that commodities, and so profits, are created and innovation results in new products and/or new production methods. New products mean that the company can reap excess profits until competitors enter the new market and force the market price down by competition. New production methods allow the intensity of labour to be increased, meaning that workers do more work relative to their wages (in other words, the cost of production falls relative to the market price, meaning extra profits).

So while competition ensures that capitalist firms innovate, innovation is the means by which companies can get an edge in the market. This is because innovation means that "capitalist excess profits come from the production process. . . when there is an above-average rise in labour productivity; the reduced costs then enable firms to earn higher than average profits in their products. But this form of excess profits is only temporary and disappears again when improved production methods become more general." [Paul Mattick, Economics, Politics and the Age of Inflation, p. 38]

In addition, innovation in terms of new technology is also used to help win the class war at the point of production for the capitalists. As the aim of capitalist production is to maximise profits, it follows that capitalism will introduce technology that will allow more surplus value to be extracted from workers. As Cornelius Castoriadis argues, capitalism "has created a capitalist technology, for its own ends, which are by no means neutral. The real essence of capitalist technology is not to develop production for production's sake: it is to subordinate and dominate the producers." [Workers' Councils and the Economics of a Self-Managed Society, p. 13]

Therefore, technological improvement can also be used to increase the power of capital over the workforce, to ensure that workers will do as they are told. In this way innovation can maximise surplus value production by trying to increase domination during working hours as well as by increasing productivity by new processes.

These attempts to increase profits by using innovation is the key to capitalist expansion and accumulation. As such innovation plays a key role within the capitalist system. However, the source of profits does not change and remains in the labour, skills and creativity of workers in the workplace. And we must stress that innovation itself is a form of labour -- mental labour. Indeed, many companies have Research and Development departments in which groups of workers are paid to generate new and innovative ideas for their employers. And we must also point out that many new innovations come from individuals who combine mental and physical labour outside of capitalist companies. In other words, arguments that mental labour alone is the source of wealth (or profits) are false. That this is the case can be seen from various experiments in workers' control where increased equality within the workplace actually increases productivity and innovation. As these experiments show workers, when given the chance, can develop numerous "good ideas" and, equally as important, produce them. A capitalist with a "good idea," on the other hand, would be powerless to produce it without workers and it is this fact that shows that innovation, in and of itself, is not the source of surplus value.


Wouldn't workers' control stifle innovation?


Contrary to much capitalist apologetics, innovation is not the monopoly of an elite class of humans. It is within all of us, although the necessary social environment needed to nurture and develop it in ordinary workers is crushed by the authoritarian workplaces of capitalism. If workers were truly incapable of innovation, any shift toward greater control of production by workers should result in decreased productivity. What one actually finds, however, is just the opposite: In the few examples where workers' control has been implemented, productivity increased dramatically as ordinary people were given the chance, usually denied them, to apply their skills, talents, and creativity.

As Christopher Eaton Gunn notes, there is "a growing body of empirical literature that is generally supportive of claims for the economic efficiency of the labour-managed firm. Much of this literature focuses on productivity, frequently finding it to be positively correlated with increasing levels of participation. . . Studies that encompass a range of issues broader than the purely economic also tend to support claims for the efficiency of labour managed and worker-controlled firms. . . In addition, studies that compare the economic preference of groups of traditionally and worker-controlled forms point to the stronger performance of the latter." [Workers' Self-Management in the United States, pp. 42-3]

This has been strikingly confirmed in studies of the Mondragon co-operatives in Spain, where workers are democratically involved in production decisions and encouraged to innovate. As George Bennello notes, "Mondragon productivity is very high -- higher than in its capitalist counterparts. Efficiency, measured as the ratio of utilised resources -- capital and labour -- to output, is far higher than in comparable capitalist factories." [The Challenge of Mondragon, p. 216]

The example of the Lucus workers in Britain, during the 1970's, again indicates the creative potential waiting to be utilised. The workers in Lucus created a plan which would convert the military-based Lucus company into a company producing useful goods for ordinary people. The workers in Lucus designed the products themselves, using their own experiences of work and life. The management just were not interested.

During the Spanish Revolution of 1936-39, workers self-managed many factories following the principles of participatory democracy. Productivity and innovation in the Spanish collectives was exceptionally high. The metal-working industry is a good example. As Augustine Souchy observes, at the outbreak of the Civil War, the metal industry in Catalonia was "very poorly developed." Yet within months, the Catalonian metal workers had rebuilt the industry from scratch, converting factories to the production of war materials for the anti-fascist troops. A few days after the July 19th revolution, the Hispano-Suiza Automobile Company was already converted to the manufacture of armoured cars, ambulances, weapons, and munitions for the fighting front. "Experts were truly astounded," Souchy writes, "at the expertise of the workers in building new machinery for the manufacture of arms and munitions. Very few machines were imported. In a short time, two hundred different hydraulic presses of up to 250 tons pressure, one hundred seventy-eight revolving lathes, and hundreds of milling machines and boring machines were built." [The Anarchist Collectives: Workers' Self-management in the Spanish Revolution, 1936-1939, ed. Sam Dolgoff, p. 96]

Similarly, there was virtually no optical industry in Spain before the July revolution, only some scattered workshops. After the revolution, the small workshops were voluntarily converted into a production collective. "The greatest innovation," according to Souchy, "was the construction of a new factory for optical apparatuses and instruments. The whole operation was financed by the voluntary contributions of the workers. In a short time the factory turned out opera glasses, telemeters, binoculars, surveying instruments, industrial glassware in different colours, and certain scientific instruments. It also manufactured and repaired optical equipment for the fighting fronts . . . What private capitalists failed to do was accomplished by the creative capacity of the members of the Optical Workers' Union of the CNT." [Op. Cit., pp. 98-9]

Therefore, far from being a threat to innovation, workers' control would increase it and, more importantly, direct it towards improving the quality of life for all as opposed to increasing the profits of the few. When it comes to self-management, with its higher efficiency and productivity, the capitalist market will select against it.

In short, rather than being a defence of capitalist profit taking (and the inequality it generates) the argument that freedom increases innovation and productivity actually points towards libertarian socialism and workers' self-management. This is unsurprising, for only equality can maximise liberty and so workers' control (rather than capitalist power) is the key to innovation. Only those who confuse freedom with the oppression of wage labour would be surprised by this.


Happy now? Mystic

I take offense to that.

But it also brings a smile to my face, since you're calling me a mystic yet you're an objectivist (subjectivist).

CCCPneubauten
7th January 2006, 04:47
*makes a batch of popcorn*

Man, L Mises is getting owned like a slave on an African coco farm (Which is alowed due to the hands off of bussiness government) :P

Keep it up Mises, this is funny as hell. :lol: