The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.

[Andy Bowden]

This was a pact between the Stalin era Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, allegedly to provide peace between the 2 and spheres of influence in neighbouring states.



Was it a neccessary compromise, or an act of class betrayal?

[Atlas Swallowed]

Maybe it was to buy time. Hitlers intensions for the USSR were quite clear in Mein Kampf. I have read that Stalin was quite shocked when Hitler invaded. Was he that naive or did he feel kinship with a fellow murderous dictator and felt betrayed?
It was probably necessary though the Red Army was not nearly ready to face the Germans at the time.

[Rakshas]

The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, also known as the Non-Aggression Pact, was a tactical move by Stalin to buy time in order to strenghten the Red Army to face the wrath of Nazi Army, which was the best in the world at that time. According to the pact, Germany gave 200 million marks against supply of raw materials, timber, fuel etc (Source: wikipedia).

The Molotov Ribbentrop pact, though on the first sight looks like a brilliant tactical moves, but Stalin's refusal to support the German Democratic party, in spite of knowing that not supporting it would lead to Hitler's ascension to power. Though, Stalinists might see it just as the only option before USSR that time. IMHO, Stalin did work against the interests of the working class of Germany. We all know that Hitler was a stooge of capitalists and had only adopted 'socialist posture' to gain mass support and when he came to power, he back tracked from all his previous promises and crushed the workers unions in Germany.

[Janus]

The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact defined the spheres of influence of both the USSR and Germany. It allowed Stalin and Hitler to temporarily avoid war in order to gain more land. Perhaps one could think of the pact as a plan for Stalin to buy time. However, he never actually placed troops on the Soviet-German border even when an invasion seemed imminent. Therefore, this pact didn't stop German aggression since Stalin himself never planned for it and trusted Hitler over the counsel of his advisors.

[Zeruzo]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 24 2005, 03:53 PM
The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact defined the spheres of influence of both the USSR and Germany. It allowed Stalin and Hitler to temporarily avoid war in order to gain more land. Perhaps one could think of the pact as a plan for Stalin to buy time. However, he never actually placed troops on the Soviet-German border even when an invasion seemed imminent. Therefore, this pact was inconsequential to the invasion of the USSR itself.
If he would have the Germans might see it as a provocation and a reason to invade. Care was needed.



The Molotov Ribbentrop pact, though on the first sight looks like a brilliant tactical moves, but Stalin's refusal to support the German Democratic party, in spite of knowing that not supporting it would lead to Hitler's ascension to power. Though, Stalinists might see it just as the only option before USSR that time. IMHO, Stalin did work against the interests of the working class of Germany. We all know that Hitler was a stooge of capitalists and had only adopted 'socialist posture' to gain mass support and when he came to power, he back tracked from all his previous promises and crushed the workers unions in Germany.

Again, if he would have done that, the Nazi's would see it as a provocation and thus a reason to invade making the whole idea behind the pact obsolete.

[Severian]

The issue isn't simply the pact. Whether to make a diplomatic deal with one or another competing gang of imperialists is a tactical question.

The more fundamental political questions are:
1) The line of all Communist Parties in the world zigzagged in response to the pact. They leaned towards the USSR's semi-allies - Germany and Italy - against Britain, France, etc. In France, for example, the PCF put up little fight against the German occupation during this period. It was only after the German attack on the USSR produced yet another zigzag that the PCF actively joined the Resistance. The French documentary "Terrorists in Retirement" has some interviews with Jewish fighters in the Communist-led resistance who describe the period of the pact and how difficult it was to accept that line and even meekly submit to registration...

That was the most unacceptable betrayal: the Comintern attempted to subordinate the whole world workers' movement to this pact based on the transitory interests of the USSR.

2) The territorial grabs associated with the pact. The Soviet invasions of eastern Poland, Finland, etc. Practically, the USSR made a new enemy, Finland (and arguably Romania) by these acts. Less immediately, it further discredited communism and the USSR in the world. The territory gained by these aggressions was rapidly lost when Barbarossa began anyway.

3) Tactically, Stalin did gain time the USSR could have used to prepare....but the USSR was not prepared! Despite ample intelligence reports, the USSR was completely caught by surprise and suffered huge losses in the opening months of the "Great Patriotic War." Because Stalin refused to believe that Hitler would ever betray the pact....and remained in denial for a time even after the invasion was launched.
One recent book on the subject I've read a bit of (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0300107803/qid=1135584240/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-6500708-8618422?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)

Nothing really new there...as far as conclusions. The author did pile up a bunch of detail and evidence if anyone is still in denial about Stalin's folly and its consequences for Soviet citizens.

[WorkerBolshevik]

The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, also known as the Non-Aggression Pact, was a tactical move by Stalin to buy time in order to strenghten the Red Army to face the wrath of Nazi Army, which was the best in the world at that time.
The Soviet Army was the most modern in the world in 1936, and the Worker's State had the largest standing army outside of Japan and China. Had Stalin had continued to advance the structure of the military between 1936 and 1939 we can only beleive that the Soviet Union would have maintained its technological and numerical superiority, and effectivly resisted any German advance on Poland or the nation itself. Instead, he purged the military.

[Roses in the Hospital]

The official line was that Stalin saw nazism as a temporary stage which would soon be overthrown to make way for communism (hence the neutrality towards Germany throughout the thirties.)
Interestingly the Western capatalist powers (who upon until then were still 'enemies' of the Soviet Union) were making overures to Russia in regards to the German situation. Perhaps, therefore,Stalin simply went with the better deal.
Though with someone as unstable as Stalin it's always going to be difficuilt discovering his true motivations....

[commiecrusader]

It was a necessary compromise.

It gave him more time to prepare his forces.

He had recenly been antagonized by the rest of Europe and needed to minimise what he perceived as his countries enemies.

He probably knew Hitler couldn't resist invading forever, and since he had signed a pact agreeing not to do this, when Hitler broke it the rest of Europe would be legally obliged to come to the USSR's aid.

I repeat, it was an unpleasant but necessary compromise.

[Red Flag Rising]

IT WAS AN ACT OF CLASS BETRAYAL!

The idea that the Hitler-Stalin Pact was an attempt by Stalin to buy time is ridiculous. We now know that Hitler and Stalin had been negotiating deeply beneath the surface of 1930s politics ever since the infamous "Night of the Long Knives." This was a continuation of the military relationship between the Soviets and the Germans since the early 1920s when the Soviets allowed the German army to develop armored tank technology on its soil in violation of the Treaty of Versailles.

Stalin had intelligence that Hitler was about to invade him and ignored it because he believed that Hitler would not doublecross him! When the Nazis invaded, the Soviets were not ready for it.

[Roses in the Hospital]

On a related topic due to the Treaty of Versailles Germany was not alowed an airforce. Because of this a lot of Luftwaffe pilots were actually trained in the Soviet Union...

[Comrade Yastrebkov]

The Soviet army was not the best in the world. It may have been numerous, but the troops were often under-equipped with no uniforms and only basic training.

As comrade Zeruzo said, had Stalin deployed massive amounts of trrops on the border, Hitler would have seen this as provocation and this would have justified a pre-emptive strike. If this happened, the US might well have allied with the Nazis to destroy the USSR. But because the Nazi attack on Russia was completely unprovoked and sudden, the world community recognized whoi was good and bad in this conflict, thus the US was obliged to join the allies, even if it was near the end of the war...

Comrade Red Flag Rising - before the beginning of the attack, Stalin had dozens of pieces of intelligence every day predicting different times for the invasion. How could he be sure that the next piece of intelligence was not as false as the last, or not just provocation? I can also give evidence that Stalin did take action to protect the Western front, but it was just too little too late. The attack was not a surprise to him, it just came sooner than expected.

[Comrada J]

It was a necessary compromise, what better solution would there have been? The Russian Military would still be lacking in arms and armor with out the purges. And as said above posting troops at the boarder probably wouldn't have made things any better either.

I found this on my comp, may be of interest:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3075/nopl056wa.jpg