Making Workers Communists

[STREETasmyCanvas]

I just wanted to start a threat about this, cause it's something I think about a lot.

I believe a classless society will come about only after 1) a proletariat revolution, and, 2) a civil war. After that I think we can begin to establish our new society, but getting there seems to be the issue for all of us. All doctrines of marxism and anarchism, we all want the same thing...but if all our beliefs are really correct, what can we do to convince our fellow workers to take on a more "communistic" view on things?

All idealism and utopian bullshit aside, I still have a really hard time 'converting' people. There are some stalemates I always come to, and I was just curious to hear about your experience on the issue. It's already hard enough to justify communism because of the skewed perspective most american workers already have on it. But, these days, you've got psycho uber-communists shooting people down for having faith and preaching to them to pick up a gun and fight when it appears they themselves aren't doing anything.

Basically, with the bad name communism carries (dont tell me its not true), what do we do? Can we help people join organizations and unions without seeming like conspiracy theorists? Or are people gonna keep getting fucked til they realize it?

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Also, I wanna bring up the point of making communists into workers. All you rich 14 year olds on this board preaching leninism cause your parents wont buy you an iPod, go get a job and move out, find out what were really talking about....

[die4oil]

A world-wide revolution is against the class interests of the Amerikkkan worker. At least one that results in equity.

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

1. Why would we need a civil war?
2. Communism absolutely carries a bad reputation, mostly as a result of the immoral things famous self-declared "communists" like Stalin or Mao have done. Should we convince people of our good meanings first, or get the revolution to convince them? Who knows. Fact is, a lot of people who lived both in the Soviet and the DDR claim they were better off in the communist period than afterwards, and many many Cubans are fond of the revolution. So a revolution actually does convince people that we mean it well for all.
3. Most people here do work for their own stuff, and aren't even close to the materialistic yuppie kids the world seems to be full of today. We don't care if we've got an iPod or not, as long as we can listen to music, and if we need a new mp3 we'll work for it.

[Luís Henrique]

what can we do to convince our fellow workers to take on a more "communistic" view on things?

For a start, we support their strikes, instead of telling them that they should deal with whatever wage they have because other people are even worse paid...


Also, I wanna bring up the point of making communists into workers. All you rich 14 year olds on this board preaching leninism cause your parents wont buy you an iPod, go get a job and move out, find out what were really talking about....

Who is "rich" in your opinion?

Luís Henrique

[Guest]

My friend, You have asked the 64 million dollarquestion. Thanks to many with questionable sanity (Stalin comes to mind) the word communism has a bad rep. Now Christians take communion, and everybdy lives in a community, but to belive in Communism is bad. Well, at least according to the Capitalist leaders in this country (U>S>A>). They have been spreading their message some time. They have a very efficiant Psy-Ops campaign against the North American working class.
How does one counter that jugernaught? IT AINT EASY! Some people are open minded enough to see the real flaws of the past, some just belive what they were conditioned to belive in their middle class public school. I think it will come down to people living in a way that shows a good sence of community. People living communally. Setting the example. Showing the basic human trend to put others before the self. I like using volunteer fire fighters as an example of the true spirit of Communism. Some people get ticked off, some do give it a thought. Ya just have to plant the seed.

[redstar2000]

There has often been a kind of conceit among lefties (all versions) that there "must be" some kind of "magic bullet" that, once fired, will transform anyone into a "fire-breathing communist".

I don't think that's "how things work".

I think that working people develop revolutionary class consciousness when they perceive that it is in their own material interests to do that.

Further, I think this class consciousness arises primarily as a result of each person's life experiences.

No one reads a "revolutionary leaflet" and decides to become a revolutionary...unless the ideas in that leaflet "resonate" with their own life experiences.

The practical dilemma that revolutionaries face in a non-revolutionary period is always framed in terms of "how can we get other people to become revolutionaries?"

And the various versions of "leftism" are often defined by how that question is specifically answered.

Many answers are childish and superficial. Some of the answers are subtle and complex. None of them have been shown to actually work.

In science, when you ask a question that keeps generating answers that don't work, it's sometimes because the question itself makes no sense.

It may well be that there's nothing that we can do that will "make" people revolutionary.

Does that mean that we "have no purpose"?

Well, some people do draw that conclusion. :(

Others, I among them, think that what we can and should do in the present period is encourage resistance to the despotism of capital in whatever ways are practical for us.

I also think that we should struggle among ourselves over what it means to "be revolutionary".

Let's face it. There are quite a lot of self-designated "revolutionaries" who, in fact, want nothing more than a "nicer" version of what exists now.

Their goal is -- in practice -- to bring the discontented "back into the system".

And it's not easy to "fight them"...because they invariably costume themselves as "great humanitarians" who "just want to help people". When we attack their duplicity, we are always accused of "not really caring about people". :o

We who consider ourselves genuine revolutionaries are in a tough situation. Our numbers are few and scattered. There's nothing that could reasonably be called a revolutionary movement yet. We are still severely handicapped by the Leninist paradigm...even though nearly all of us have rejected it, the shadows still linger.

What it is always possible for us to do is tell people the truth as best we understand it. That won't "make" people revolutionary...in fact, they're almost certain at this point to think we are "crazy".

That's something that can't be helped. There's no way to "sugar-coat" our message so that it just "slides down people's throats".

Revolution is hard. And it's dangerous. No one chooses that option without a lot of thought and experience.

But they won't choose it at all if they never hear of it.

So tell them...and wait.

Time will do its work. Periods of reaction are not "eternal". :)

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[Dr. Rosenpenis]

converting people is hard
I agree with redstar
I'd like to be able to dispell peopls' trust in capitalism and prove the virtues of communism by kicking their ass in debate, and instantly make them communists. Unfortunately that doesn't work.
They'll just have to see theorugh the bullshit themselves.
Rubbish like Michaal Moore seems to be effective in starting to open peoples' eyes.

[enigma2517]

All too true.

First, we can't pacify our message. It should, and hopefully always will be, down with the despotism of capital, IN ALL OF ITS FORMS.

Of course, depending on where we are in history, we might want to be careful about how we convey this message. Shouting revolutionary slogans on the streets sometimes just makes you look like a crazy person. On the other hand, if you are in the company of a secular liberal with the "right idea" it might not be such a bad idea. Its a pretty common psychological occurance when something like that polarizes and radicalizes somebody's opinion.

Basically, material conditions dictate how and when we "strike".

Personally, I think education is more useful than demonstration at this point. Nobody knows why those anarchists are out there destroying corporate property or why these workers are striking.

When we do talk to people, I think the most important part is making examples that are relevant to their life. Material wealth is always a good topic for the really poor but being a middle class kid I often deal with the "labor aristocracy" and thats where I get into stuff like alienation and individuality more.

[STREETasmyCanvas002]

good post redstar, really good post

so you agree our number one job as revolutionaries is teaching then? spreading the word? i agree, but what about the 'leninist paradigm' as you put it...most people don't even wanna hear it from the beginning, and thats why im becoming more and more involved in my union cause i think the material conditions can be more easily seen from that perspective

"Stronger then the revolution that you wear on your sleeve,
Its all I know not an idea I believe"

-Talib Kweli

[redstar2000]

You know what I would do if I were young and energetic again?

I'd make up some posters and put them up in places where working class high school and college kids hang out.

They'd contain a very simple "ultra-left" message...in other words, not a big boring block of text. Something with modern "edgy" graphics.

And the RevLeft url or the url of some radical group that I really liked.

And that's it.

Examples: picture of White House. Above picture: Fuck this shit! Bottom of picture: Working Class Revolution -- the sensible alternative.

picture of coffin draped in American flag

picture of homeless person

picture of woman behind prison bars

picture of Donald Trump

picture of hurricane wreckage in New Orleans

I doubt if something like this would attract more than a tiny handful of responses at the present time.

But it would "plant the seed". :)

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[Ownthink]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2005, 01:07 AM
You know what I would do if I were young and energetic again?

I'd make up some posters and put them up in places where working class high school and college kids hang out.

They'd contain a very simple "ultra-left" message...in other words, not a big boring block of text. Something with modern "edgy" graphics.

And the RevLeft url or the url of some radical group that I really liked.

And that's it.

Examples: picture of White House. Above picture: Fuck this shit! Bottom of picture: Working Class Revolution -- the sensible alternative.

picture of coffin draped in American flag

picture of homeless person

picture of woman behind prison bars

picture of Donald Trump

picture of hurricane wreckage in New Orleans

I doubt if something like this would attract more than a tiny handful of responses at the present time.

But it would "plant the seed". :)

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Good suggestions! :)


Too bad they would most likely be ripped down by the Administration oif wherever you place them (schools, businesses, etc). :(

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Ownthink
Too bad they would most likely be ripped down by the Administration of wherever you place them...

Sure they would. You'd have to go back every so often and put up some new ones.

It might actually be worthwhile to "consult an expert" -- it would be great to put them up with some kind of substance that could be applied to the entire front surface and would protect it from casual vandals. It would have to be something that would dry quickly and transparently...and preferably something that could be applied from a spray can.

Maybe someone really knowledgable in a paint store or hardware store could offer some good practical advice on this.

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[KC]

It might actually be worthwhile to "consult an expert" -- it would be great to put them up with some kind of substance that could be applied to the entire front surface and would protect it from casual vandals. It would have to be something that would dry quickly and transparently...and preferably something that could be applied from a spray can.

The most commonly used and most effective is called wheat pasting. You can find a great post on how to wheat paste by organic revolution here (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=39816). I have seen flyers wheat pasted to walls, and it is damn hard to remove. I still see flyers up for May Day 2004 that were wheatpasted on light poles. :lol:

[Enragé]

the problem with making people any kind of revolutionary leftist is that they
a) have to care (so they'll have to have some self-interest, or selfless idealism...as is the case with myself)
b) most importantly have a fuckin open mind

the problem with alot, especially older, capitalists is that even if you show them what marxism truly is, even if you disprove their standard anti-communist bullshit they learnt in school, 2 weeks later they're still spewing the same nonsense.