33,700 NYC Transit workers ON STRIKE!

[coda]

December 20, 2005

Transit Union Strike Halts New York City Subways and Buses
By STEVEN GREENHOUSE and SEWELL CHAN

The transit workers' union ordered an illegal strike this morning, shutting down New York City's subway and bus system after contract talks with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority broke down - * a disruption that will prevent people from going to work, cause millions of dollars in economic damage and seriously upend the life of the city in the week before Christmas.

Local 100 of the Transport Workers Union, which represents 33,700 subway and bus workers, announced its first strike in 25 years after feverish last-minute negotiations faltered over the transportation authority's demands for concessions on pension and health benefits for future employees.

The state's Taylor Law bars strikes by public employees and carries penalties of two days' pay for each day on strike, but the transit union decided it was worth risking the substantial fines to continue the fight for what it regards as an acceptable contract.

The union's executive board voted 28 to 10, with 5 members abstaining, to start the strike, but Michael T. O'Brien, the president of the Transport Workers Union of America, Local 100's parent union, warned the board that he could because he believed the authority's most recent offer represented real progress.

Mr. Toussaint rejected that argument, and at a 3 a.m. news conference tried to portray the strike as part of a broader effort for social justice and workplace rights.

"New Yorkers, this is a fight over whether hard work will be rewarded with a decent retirement," he said. "This is a fight over the erosion, or the eventual elimination, of health-benefits coverage for working people in New York. This is a fight over dignity and respect on the job, a concept that is very alien to the M.T.A."

He appealed for public support, acknowledging the tremendous inconvenience to millions of commuters and tourists. "To our riders, we ask for your understanding and forbearance. We stood with you to keep token booths open, to keep conductors on the trains, to oppose fare hikes," he said. "We now ask that you stand with us. We did not want a strike, but evidently the M.T.A., the governor and the mayor did."

The vote by the union board came after a 12-hour round of intense negotiations between the two pivotal figures in the talks - Peter S. Kalikow, the transportation authority's chairman, and Roger Toussaint, president of Local 100 of the Transport Workers Union - who bargained face-to-face yesterday for the first time since Friday.

But with just an hour to go before the deadline, Tom Kelly, an authority spokesman, said that efforts to settle the dispute had faltered after the union turned down what he called "a fair offer."

"Unfortunately, that offer has been rejected by the Transport Workers Union, and they have advised us that they were going - that they are going - to leave the building, and going to the union hall," Mr. Kelly said. "The M.T.A. remains ready to continue negotiations." Union officials would not discuss the developments as they headed into their private strategy session.

The developments capped a day in which the transit union stepped up the pressure by beginning a strike yesterday morning against two Queens bus lines, stranding about 57,000 passengers in what the union portrayed as a prelude to a strike that would shut down the nation's largest transit system.

The union first threatened to shut down the whole system on Friday, but pushed back the deadline to today, seemingly to increase its leverage by warning of a walkout the week before Christmas, one of the busiest weeks for retailers. The state's Taylor Law prohibits strikes by public employees and carries penalties of two days' pay for each day on strike.

As a result of all the threats and deadlines, many New Yorkers for the second straight week felt wildly off balance, straining to figure out how their children would get to school and how they would get to work or to doctors' appointments.

Some New Yorkers backed the transit workers, some saw them as greedy lawbreakers, and some said that both sides in the negotiations deserved the public's disdain.

Warning that a strike would be illegal, Gov. George E. Pataki and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg stepped up their campaign to pressure the union, with the mayor saying that a strike would be "reprehensible."

"The city and state and courts - everybody is going to enforce the law, and anybody that thinks that they can just go break the law is sadly mistaken," Mr. Bloomberg said. "There can be no winners in a strike - it's not going to force the M.T.A. to make a settlement. If anything, it's going to probably dig them in."

At rallies outside the governor's office and in Queens alongside the striking bus workers, Mr. Toussaint and many union members trumpeted their defiance, insisting that it was more important to obtain what they viewed as a just contract than to obey the law barring strikes.

"Unless there is substantial movement by the authority, trains and buses will come to a halt as of midnight tonight," he said at a rally for the bus workers in East Elmhurst, Queens.

With anger in his voice, he added, "We maintain, as we have in the past week, that threats are not going to produce a contract and are not going to work against us." Later, at a rally outside the governor's office in Manhattan, he sought to justify a walkout by saying, "There's a calling that is higher than the law, and that's the calling of justice."

City officials have prepared an emergency plan that would increase ferry service, allow taxis to pick up multiple fares, close several streets to traffic except for buses and emergency vehicles, and prohibit cars with fewer than four passengers from entering Manhattan below 96th Street during the morning rush. The city is also deploying hundreds of police officers to secure subway entrances in the event of a walkout.

The transportation authority's 11th-hour offer included a 3 percent raise in the first year, 4 percent in the second year and 3.5 percent in the third year of a new contract, representatives on both sides said. Before yesterday, it was offering 3 percent a year for three straight years.

The authority dropped its demand to raise the retirement age for a full pension to 62 for new employees, up from 55 for current employees. But the authority proposed that all future transit workers pay 6 percent of their wages toward their pensions, up from the 2 percent that current workers pay.

The transportation authority asserts that it needs to bring its soaring pension costs under control to stave off future deficits. But union leaders vow that they will not sell out future transit workers by saddling them with lesser benefits.

Earlier yesterday, Mr. Toussaint hinted at some movement in the talks at the Grand Hyatt hotel, saying that the union would reduce its wage demands to 6 percent a year, from 8 percent a year, if the authority promised to reduce the number of disciplinary actions brought against transit workers. The authority has offered raises of 3 percent a year for three years.

The union began its strike against two Queens bus lines, Jamaica Buses Inc. and Triboro Coach Corporation, in the hope of pressuring the authority to reach an overall settlement. The walkout angered many Queens commuters and caused many to squeeze into vans and taxis.

The 707 workers at the two bus companies have been without a contract for 33 months. The authority is taking control of those two companies and five others, and union officials assert that the strike against the companies is not prohibited because the authority has not taken full control of them.

The Public Employment Relations Board, a state body that oversees labor relations for government employees, did not issue a decision yesterday in response to a complaint that the union filed on Sunday, asserting that the authority had violated state law by including its pension demands as part of what it said was its final offer. The union has asked the labor board to seek an injunction ordering the authority to drop its pension demand.

At 9:15 p.m. yesterday, the board's executive director, James R. Edgar, said the board had not yet received the authority's legal papers replying to the union.

Many New Yorkers said a strike would disrupt their lives. Doreen Simon, 55, who lives in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, and works as a housekeeper in Riverdale, the Bronx, said, "I'm going to stay home. What can I do? I can't take a cab to the Bronx. It's going to hurt."

The union has repeatedly urged Mr. Pataki to join the talks, trying to put the onus on him if there is a walkout. But the governor, like the mayor, says that the professionals at the authority should handle the talks.

Workers at the Metro-North Railroad and Long Island Rail Road are not expected to strike in support of transit workers. Anthony J. Bottalico, the chairman of the union that represents Metro-North engineers, conductors and rail-traffic controllers, said none of his members planned to strike.

However, two other unions, which represent Metro-North ticket collectors and track workers, have vowed to show solidarity with Local 100 by refusing to cross picket lines, and they could conceivably delay, though not disrupt, regular train service.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Good to hear that's it's finally going through.

I urge everyone in the area to show complete solidarity with the workers and work to build public opinion in their favor.

[coda]

From what I see here in New York, there is very strong sentiment in favor for the strike, but as you know from living here, that may wear out within a day two. NYer's have no tolerance and get peeved pretty easily.



The Worker's

Uniquely Aggrieved, and Empowered, Union Digs in Again
By SEWELL CHAN
In its standoff with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, the Transport Workers Union has highlighted once again its ability to upset millions of the city's subway and bus riders. It is an enduring tradition of militancy that dates to the union's creation during the Great Depression.

Indeed, in New York, a city that has weathered major strikes by sanitation workers, drawbridge operators, teachers and social workers, no union seems able to unsettle residents quite like the one that moves the subways and buses.

Members of T.W.U. Local 100, which represents the 33,700 transit workers whose three-year contract expired on Friday, often invoke two mottoes: "We Move New York" and "United, Invincible." Both speak to the union's confidence in its ability to shut down the city, as it has done twice before, in 1966 and 1980.

"The police officers and firefighters have such an ability to do damage that it's very difficult to conceive of a strike," said Robert W. Linn, who was the city's director of labor relations from 1983 to 1989. "A transit strike, from the point of view of union power, is almost perfect. It is not absolutely devastating in a life-or-death way, but on the other hand is incredibly potent as a weapon."

Transit workers are more militant because they are conscious of that power, but the very conditions of their job also grind them down and generate resentment, said Marian Swerdlow, a sociologist and the author of "Underground Woman," a memoir of her four years as a subway conductor.

"The working conditions are more physically onerous, the treatment by managers more disrespectful, and the abuse from the public more hurtful, than any other group of public workers in the city experiences," Dr. Swerdlow said.

Those conditions, some say, also explain how even as the face of the union has changed - from that of the Irish and other European workers who once dominated the workforce to that of the blacks, Latinos, and Asian Americans who now fill its ranks - its militant posture has endured.

"Whoever it is that works as a transit worker - be it Irish- Italian- or African-Americans - they do a hard and dirty job, which is often quite dangerous and becomes visible to the public only when something goes wrong," said Robert W. Snyder, author of "Transit Talk," an oral history of subway and bus workers.

The transit union is something of a throwback to the era of industrial unions. The looks, sounds and smells of subway car barns and bus depots have changed little in a century. And unlike many in the service and clerical industries, transit workers know that their jobs cannot be easily outsourced, although technological innovations have begun to threaten the security of some workers, like subway conductors.

"Transit workers, because of the schedules they work and the conditions they work in, are often in industrial environments that most New Yorkers have left behind a long time ago," said Dr. Snyder, an associate professor of journalism and media studies at Rutgers University in Newark. "The idea that a motorman has to scramble to find a place to urinate on a busy day is not something most of us face on the job."

Michael J. Quill, who helped found the union in 1934 and led it until his death in 1966, helped set a pattern for militancy that looked beyond day-to-day concerns. Served with a court order barring the 1966 strike, Mr. Quill seemed to embody the union's swagger when he roared, "The judge can drop dead in his black robes."

Joshua B. Freeman, a labor historian at the City University of New York Graduate Center, said, "Mike Quill was part of a left-wing group that really rejected capitalism, as it was at that time, and many T.W.U. leaders shared those views, and that generation remained in place until the 1960's." Dr. Freeman, author of "Working-Class New York," a history of city unions since World War II, also noted that Mr. Quill worked closely with the Communist Party until the late 1940's.

Internal dissent has also fueled the union's militancy, said Vincent J. Cannato, author of a 2001 biography of Mayor John V. Lindsay, whose new administration was thrown into turmoil by the 12-day transit strike of January 1966. "Minorities were becoming restless under Irish leadership, and Quill needed to step up the militancy to persuade African-Americans that he was fighting for them," said Dr. Cannato, a historian at the University of Massachusetts at Boston.

Roger Toussaint, the Trinidadian native who has led Local 100 since 2000, echoed the views of aggrieved transit workers, past and present, during a rally yesterday afternoon outside Gov. George E. Pataki's office in Midtown. "When it comes to dignity and respect, transit workers are tired, tired, tired," he said.

[Body Count]

Good for them, let the city crumble for all I care.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I don't live in NY anymore.

How you can help the strikers (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=44190)

[Body Count]

Hey, this is front page on comcast and I noticed something very concerning.


MTA Chairman Peter Kalikow called the strike "a slap in the face" to all New Yorkers and said state lawyers will immediately head to court in seeking to block the walkout.

Also :


It is illegal for mass transit workers to strike in New York, which means the 33,000 bus and subway employees will incur huge fines.

What, are they gonna FORCE these men and women to drive buses and taxis?

[Body Count]

Bloombergs statement :


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
PR- 473-05
December 20, 2005

STATEMENT FROM MAYOR BLOOMBERG ON ILLEGAL WORK STOPPAGE BY THE TWU


"Tonight, Roger Toussaint and the TWU have taken the illegal and morally reprehensible action of ordering a citywide strike of our mass transit system.

"The contingency plan that we outlined last week will go into effect and be implemented for Tuesday morning's rush hour. Among other measures, HOV lanes have been designated; Police checkpoints are being established and a new fare structure for taxis is in effect. The entire contingency plan can be viewed on www.nyc.gov.

"At this hour, City Corporation Counsel Michael Cardozo is joining the MTA in requesting an emergency hearing in front of Brooklyn Supreme Court Justice Theodore Jones. We will seek to show that the TWU is in contempt of the court's earlier injunction and ask the court to impose severe fines on the union and its members.

"I hope Judge Jones will grant this motion as quickly as possible. The union must understand there are real and significant consequences to their actions.

"For their own selfish reasons, the TWU has decided that their demands are more important than the law, the City and the people they serve. This is not only an affront to the concept of public service; it is a cowardly attempt by Roger Toussaint and the TWU to bring the City to its knees to create leverage for their own bargaining position. We cannot give the TWU the satisfaction of causing the havoc they desperately seek to create.

"Going forward, we will need to be patient, considerate and resilient. We can't let inconveniences, as massive as they are, stop our economy, shut down our schools, or jeopardize public safety.

"It will no doubt be a difficult time for people of this City and the region as a whole. But New Yorkers have made a habit of pulling through tough times and showing doubters what we're made of. These traits will be put to the test as long as this strike lasts.

"Rush hour will begin in few hours. I will join fellow New Yorkers going to work by walking across the Brooklyn Bridge to lower Manhattan. Let's show our determination by walking, cycling or carpooling, to get to work and school.

"We will show that New York City works even when our buses and subways don't. I have no doubt that, by working together, we can and will get through this.

"Thank you and have a good night."

How is it "illegal" for these men not to work when they DON'T have contracts?

Cappies are soooooo for the "common good" when THEIR convenience is in danger.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

It's illegal because of the Taylor Law, which is New York state's version of Taft-Hartley. Bloomberg also got an injunction against the union, which makes it doubly illegal.

Both the union and the workers are going to end up facing huge fines in the long run; but it will all be worth it if they stick it out.

[YKTMX]

Wildcat!! :D

Bloomberg is a venal sack of shit.

When the day comes, that bloodsucker will be the first against the wall.

[Body Count]

So this is supported by the majority of New Yorkers?

Comcast is making it seem otherwise.

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by Body [email protected] 20 2005, 05:35 PM
So this is supported by the majority of New Yorkers?

Comcast is making it seem otherwise.
The mass media are controlled by the capitalists. Is it surprising that they have no time for the workers?

[Body Count]

Originally posted by ComradeOm+Dec 20 2005, 05:45 PM--> (ComradeOm @ Dec 20 2005, 05:45 PM)
Body [email protected] 20 2005, 05:35 PM
So this is supported by the majority of New Yorkers?

Comcast is making it seem otherwise.
The mass media are controlled by the capitalists. Is it surprising that they have no time for the workers? [/b]
Oh I know that the media will not support this, I was simply trying to get confermation.

I'm surprised that the majority of who I thought to be greedy New Yorkers would support this.

BTW, I heard that the transport system had a surplus of ONE BILLION DOLLARS last year and they STILL wouldn't pay......:lol:

[coda]

I don't know if they are yet engaging in Wildcats. Metro North trains, the commuter train system in the area, say they support the strike but weren't going to be striking, but neither would they cross a picket line. So, so far it is limited to TWU Local 100.

<<So this is supported by the majority of New Yorkers?>>

The NY Times seems to support the strike. The New York Daily News blantantly does not.

I was watching NY local news and comments of the people on the street.. No one was especially pissed and no one said they should not strike, the sentiment was "They have to do what they have to do." Which suprised the hell out of me the degree of class consciousness, especially in light of the huge disruption this will cause in the lives of people. it is no doubt badly affecting the low wage and minority workers. The majority of people said they didn&#39;t have that kind of money to take cabs to work. Subways are &#036;1.50. The city has made it has difficult as possible for low wage workers. They&#39;ve set a non-negotiable cab fee at &#036;10.00 and &#036;5.00 to pass through each city zone on top of that. The cabs can&#39;t get into the city or to certain areas during rush hours without having a minimum of 4 people in the cars. The cops have check points and turning back all cars that don&#39;t. Tons of people were walking from Brooklyn over the Brooklyn Bridge to get to their jobs and said it wouldn&#39;t be so bad if it were April, but 9 degree F. weather is rough. Two minority workers interviewed said they will probably have to quit their jobs because they just didn&#39;t make enough money to get to work now with cab fares &#036;20.00++ round trip. And I&#39;m sure they are speaking for thousands of New Yorkers when they say that. Those employers should bear with this and give these people a break and not fire anyone, and the MTA should quickly resolve the pension and retirement issue and just give it up. They have 100B surplus, so they can afford to do it. Those are apparently the only existing contention points that necessitated the strike to go forward. As far as the TWU workers being fined 2 paychecks per strike day, they said it is worth it to get those concessions. Anyhow, it&#39;s good worker practice militancy which is indeed needed to precipitate a future revolution.

well, we shall see... the 1980 NYC Transit strike lasted 11 days.

[Tekun]

Good to hear that these workers are employing a political weapon to bring about change, instead of protesting yet acquiescing to ridiculous offers

I hope that NYers understand and support these workers

Anyone catch Bloomberg walking on the Brooklyn Bridge trying to mesh wit common NYers and condemn the strike?
I guess he decided not to take his limo to work today :lol:

[coda]

<<Anyone catch Bloomberg walking on the Brooklyn Bridge trying to mesh wit common NYers and condemn the strike?
I guess he decided not to take his limo to work today>>

haha, yeah&#33; he lost his ride too. He actually takes a subway to Gracie Mansion everyday. to be considered a "real New Yorker" you take the subway-- that&#39;s how he got elected, that, and forfeiting his salary. He&#39;s in near panic now. He and Pataki are coming on TV now about every half hour calling an end to the strike saying the MTA are still at the table ready to continue bargaining.

[coda]

Some updates:

PBA (Police) leader Pat Lynch went to the picket line in support of the strike and marched with the workers.


Court Fines NYC Transit Strikers &#036;1M a Day

By LARRY McSHANE
NEW YORK (AP) - The city&#39;s subway and bus workers went on strike Tuesday for the first time in more than 25 years, stranding millions of commuters, holiday shoppers and tourists at the height of the Christmas rush. A judge promptly slapped the union with a &#036;1 million-a-day fine.

State Justice Theodore Jones leveled the sanction against the Transport Workers Union for violating a state law that bars public employees from going on strike.

Attorneys for the city and state had asked Jones to hit the union with a ``very potent fine&#39;&#39; for defying the law.

``This is a very, very sad day in the history of labor relations for New York City,&#39;&#39; the judge said in imposing the fine.

The union vowed to immediately appeal, calling it an excessive fine.

The heavy penalty could force the union off the picket lines and back on the job. Its 33,000 members are already facing individual fines of two days&#39; pay for every day they are on strike.

The courtroom drama came midway through a day in which the strike fell far short of the all-out chaos that many had feared.

The nation&#39;s largest transit system ground to a halt after 3 a.m. when the 33,000-member Transport Workers Union called the strike after a late round of negotiations with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority broke down Monday night. The subways and buses provide more than 7 million rides per day.

New Yorkers car-pooled, shared taxis, rode bicycles, roller-skated or walked in the freezing cold. Early morning temperatures were in the 20s.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who had said the strike would cost the city as much as &#036;400 million a day, joined the throngs of people crossing the Brooklyn Bridge by foot.

``It&#39;s a form of terrorism, if you ask me,&#39;&#39; said Maria Negron, who walked across the bridge. ``I hope they go back to work.&#39;&#39;

With special traffic rules in place, the city survived the morning rush without the monumental gridlock some had feared. Manhattan streets were unusually quiet; some commuters just stayed home.

Public officials carried out their threat of quick legal action, heading into a courtroom in Brooklyn to obtain sanctions against the union for violating state law. The transit employees could face fines of two days&#39; pay for each day off the job.

The striking workers deserve a ``very potent fine&#39;&#39; for the walkout because of its economic and social cost, James Henly of the state attorney general&#39;s office said in court. But union attorney Arthur Schwartz accused the MTA of provoking the strike.

Gov. George Pataki said the union acted illegally and ``will suffer the consequences.&#39;&#39;

No talks between the two sides were scheduled by Tuesday afternoon, though a union lawyer told a court hearing that his side was willing to sit down with a mediator.

It was New York&#39;s first citywide transit walkout since an 11-day strike in 1980. The main sticking points were pay raises and pension and health benefits.

``I&#39;m not happy about this,&#39;&#39; said Yvette Vigo, whose teeth were chattering after she walked a couple of miles to pick up a company-run shuttle bus at Wall Street. ``It&#39;s too cold to walk this far.&#39;&#39;

At one subway booth, a handwritten sign read: ``Strike in Effect. Station Closed. Happy Holidays&#33;&#33;

&#33;&#33;&#39;&#39;

Huge lines formed at ticket booths for the commuter railroads that stayed in operation, and Manhattan-bound traffic backed up at many bridges and tunnels as police turned away cars with fewer than four people.

Transit workers took to the picket lines with signs that read: ``We Move NY. Respect Us&#33;&#39;&#39;

``I think they all should get fired,&#39;&#39; said Eddie Goncalves, a doorman trying to get home after his overnight shift. He said he expected to spend an extra &#036;30 per day in cab and train fares.

``It doesn&#39;t seem right to tie up the cultural and investment center of the world,&#39;&#39; said Larry Scarinzi, 72, a retired engineer from Whippany, N.J., waiting for a cab outside Penn Station. ``They&#39;re breaking the law. They&#39;re tearing the heart out of the nation&#39;s economy.&#39;&#39;

The mayor put into effect a sweeping emergency plan, including the requirement that cars entering Manhattan below 96th Street have at least four occupants.

The union said the latest MTA offer included annual raises of 3 percent, 4 percent and 3.5 percent. MTA workers typically earn from &#036;35,000 as a starting salary to about &#036;55,000 annually. The union said it wanted a better offer, especially since the MTA has a &#036;1 billion surplus this year.

The contract expired Friday at midnight, but the two sides had continued talking through the weekend.

Associated Press writers David B. Caruso, Verena Dobnik, Samantha Gross and Sara Kugler contributed to this report.

On the Net:

Metropolitan Transportation Authority: http://www.mta.info/

Transport Workers Union: http://www.twulocal100.org

City contingency plans: http://www.nyc.gov/html/transitinfo/html/home.shtml

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

You gotta love the blatent anti-worker slant on that article.

Idiocy.

[People&#39;s Coalition]

This is capitalism for you.

Fining Protesters for protesting.

[STREETasmyCanvas]

i dunno about this strike, i mean great news, but its fucking a lot of working class people over, &#036;20 to cross QB in a cab, fucks up with that?

also, MTA workers are spoiled already

[cccpcommie]

the school kids are being buttfucked&#33; they have no rides to school&#33; :angry:

[Guerrilla22]

The city should quit being such hardasses and give in to their demands. They aren&#39;t asking for much.

[coda]

It sucks for the other workers in New York, But it&#39;s a fight for all labor. It&#39;s an important strike, if only to give other blackballed and threatened worker&#39;s the incentive and courage to fight for better working conditions. Like damn--- the abused Walmart workers&#33;&#33; Atleast to give those people the courage to unionize. Everyone should be unionized by now.

The strike may end soon, though not before Thursday. The last thing I heard on NY news station was that the TWU weren&#39;t going to consider bargaining again until after Thursday.



an interesting US labor timeline:

wow, look at this entry.

3 July 1835
Children employed in the silk mills in Paterson, NJ went on strike for the 11 hour day/6 day week.


http://www.lutins.org/labor.html

[Xvall]

This is the best news I&#39;ve hear all day.

[BattleOfTheCowshed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2005, 06:35 AM
i dunno about this strike, i mean great news, but its fucking a lot of working class people over, &#036;20 to cross QB in a cab, fucks up with that?

also, MTA workers are spoiled already
Yes, workingclass people are suffering, but the difference is between temporary suffering or overall victory for workingclass people. How exactly are the MTA workers spoiled? Its obvious from whats happening in New York that they&#39;re priceless in running the city, yet they recieve lower middle class pay, less than &#036;50k on average, and thats spoiled? &#036;50k isnt a lot when you factor in the expenses of living in New York which has one of the highest costs of living in the country. The fact that that would be considered "spoiled" is not indicative of anything on the TWU&#39;s part but indicative of the low expectations American workers have come to expect due to the decline of unions and working class solidarity. The media and the ruling class loves to throw out stuff like "the strike is only hurting poor people". Interesting that 99.9% of the time they don&#39;t give a fuck about the working class, its only when its in their own interest that they use such rhetoric.

[Livetrueordie]

well i do think that 55 retirement age is very unreasonable.
I do not understand how the strike is illegal, especially considering the city doesn&#39;t own the workers and they can do whatever the fuck they want

[People&#39;s Coalition]

This is capitalism at its worse. I mean for god sakes their jailing these protesters and fining them OVER A MILLION dollars A DAY.

This is bullshit, America is the richest country in the world but we still can&#39;t pay a reasonable amount to these people who work their ass off.

[Hefer]

New York is one expensive ass city to live in; a gallon of milk cost like &#036;5-6 etc.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Yeah and the rate of real poverty for a family of four is &#036;57,000 a year; but they don&#39;t mention that in the news.

And whoever was wondering about the legality of ths strike, look up the Taylor Law.

It&#39;s also important to remember that there existed an even harsher law before, called the Condon-Wadline law, and the transit workers who went on strike in 1966 made it one of their demands that the law be repealed before they would go back to work.

The workers today need to do the same.

[STREETasmyCanvas]

How exactly are the MTA workers spoiled?

You said it yourself, 50k for sitting behind a desk helping stupid people put money in the machines and telling tourists which way is uptown


Its obvious from whats happening in New York that they&#39;re priceless in running the city, yet they recieve lower middle class pay, less than &#036;50k on average, and thats spoiled?

Are we talking like, Greenwich or something? That&#39;s such bullshit, where im from 50k a year is a damn good job...and for the arguements sake i looked it up...per capita income in NYC is &#036;22,402 and 21.2% live below the poverty line...just for trivia, if NYC was it&#39;s own country it&#39;s GDP would be the 17th highest in the world...more than belguim and almost matching russia...


&#036;50k isnt a lot when you factor in the expenses of living in New York which has one of the highest costs of living in the country.

A month&#39;s salary is &#036;4150, lets work this out

what expenses would the average new yorker have in a month?

grocery - &#036;400
rent - &#036;2500
utilities - &#036;500
cell phone - &#036;100
transportation - &#036;75
other neccesary items - &#036;300
throw away money - &#036;300

thats reasonable. dont have to live in manhattan...staten and queens...you can find yourself some deals

thats middle class salary. and they want more.

good for them, nothing glorious, but they seem like asses to people who dont have any food to eat at all....

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

You&#39;ve been grossly misinformed.

1. There&#39;s no such thing as a "middle class salary". Your class is decided by your relation to the means of production, not how much you make.

2. The rate of real poverty for a family of four is in New York City is &#036;57,000 a year.

3. This strike is about alot more than wages -- and in fact has little to do with them. Maybe you should try to make a materialist analysis of the situation instead of relying on bourgeois media. MTA wants to create a divide amongst the union (and the capitalist class as a whole want to pave the way for increased attacks on all workers) by requiring huge givebacks and upping the pension age for new hires to 30-62.

4. The transit workers just worked a three year contract with 1 year with no raise, and 2 years of raises which were behind inflation. The new offer is the same; the raise they&#39;re offering is behind inflation.

5. Lots of people don&#39;t have food to eat; what the fuck does that have to do with these workers? Blame the actuall cause of that, not workers who are fighting for justice.

With people like you "on our side" who needs enemies?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2005, 11:27 PM

How exactly are the MTA workers spoiled?

You said it yourself, 50k for sitting behind a desk helping stupid people put money in the machines and telling tourists which way is uptown


Its obvious from whats happening in New York that they&#39;re priceless in running the city, yet they recieve lower middle class pay, less than &#036;50k on average, and thats spoiled?

Are we talking like, Greenwich or something? That&#39;s such bullshit, where im from 50k a year is a damn good job...and for the arguements sake i looked it up...per capita income in NYC is &#036;22,402 and 21.2% live below the poverty line...just for trivia, if NYC was it&#39;s own country it&#39;s GDP would be the 17th highest in the world...more than belguim and almost matching russia...


&#036;50k isnt a lot when you factor in the expenses of living in New York which has one of the highest costs of living in the country.

A month&#39;s salary is &#036;4150, lets work this out

what expenses would the average new yorker have in a month?

grocery - &#036;400
rent - &#036;2500
utilities - &#036;500
cell phone - &#036;100
transportation - &#036;75
other neccesary items - &#036;300
throw away money - &#036;300

thats reasonable. dont have to live in manhattan...staten and queens...you can find yourself some deals

thats middle class salary. and they want more.

good for them, nothing glorious, but they seem like asses to people who dont have any food to eat at all....
Why do the damands of the working class have to be "just" in the eyes of the bourgeoisie?

[violencia.Proletariat]

im sick and tired of people criticizing the strikers. these people are standing up for everything thats been done to workers in america over the last 20 years. the anti organized labor movement of buisnesses must come to an end. public utilities, and most service industries are having a stir of anti-worker rules and policies. these must be defeated through direct action&#33; if anything the transportation workers hold the key to a general strike. if this is not the perfect time for everyone else who is fed up to strike then i dont know what is. expect this to happen in many other cities over the next few years because we are about to see a sharp decline in workplace rights. in solidarity with the strikers.

and for all this "simple labor", idk about you but some of those people talk to over 1000 people a day in their little booths. i admire them for not ripping peoples heads off. imagine hearing the same question 300 times a day? would you be able to tolerate that. how about not having adeaqute bathroom breaks for bus drivers, then getting "written up" for making your bus late because you had to take a piss. this is reminding me of the 1800&#39;s here&#33;

[Martin Blank]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2005, 11:42 PM
With people like you "on our side" who needs enemies?
He&#39;s not "on our side", comrade. He&#39;s just another petty-bourgeois leftist. Treat him accordingly.

Miles

[Hefer]

thats middle class salary. and they want more.

Why shouldn&#39;t they get a piece of the 1 billion surplus they created? So the bosses can their pennies worth. That major is a piece of shit; making the workers seem greedy/ lazy. I suppose the old ways of scabes and anti-union gangs are back in NY.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 04:42 AM
You&#39;ve been grossly misinformed.

1. There&#39;s no such thing as a "middle class salary". Your class is decided by your relation to the means of production, not how much you make.

2. The rate of real poverty for a family of four is in New York City is &#036;57,000 a year.

3. This strike is about alot more than wages -- and in fact has little to do with them. Maybe you should try to make a materialist analysis of the situation instead of relying on bourgeois media. MTA wants to create a divide amongst the union (and the capitalist class as a whole want to pave the way for increased attacks on all workers) by requiring huge givebacks and upping the pension age for new hires to 30-62.

4. The transit workers just worked a three year contract with 1 year with no raise, and 2 years of raises which were behind inflation. The new offer is the same; the raise they&#39;re offering is behind inflation.

5. Lots of people don&#39;t have food to eat; what the fuck does that have to do with these workers? Blame the actuall cause of that, not workers who are fighting for justice.

With people like you "on our side" who needs enemies?
Bro, where&#39;d u get 57K as rate of real poverty?
The source
I wanna use it in an argument, but I need a reliable source and also make sure its credible

[Severian]

Originally posted by Body [email protected] 20 2005, 03:46 AM

It is illegal for mass transit workers to strike in New York, which means the 33,000 bus and subway employees will incur huge fines.

What, are they gonna FORCE these men and women to drive buses and taxis?
Yeah, exactly. It&#39;s forced labor, or an attempt at forcing them to go to work.

This strike does cause a lot of hardship for a lot of working people. But a strike&#39;s only really effective when it shuts something down and causes social disruption. That&#39;s the only leverage a union ever really has. So working people are allowed to strike as long as it doesn&#39;t inconvenience anyone else, that is as long as it&#39;s ineffective.

And the transit workers do have some benefits other working people don&#39;t. Because of the leverage the transit workers have, because of the fight they&#39;ve put up. That does make it harder to win support, when other working people look at the transit workers and say "I don&#39;t have anywhere near that stuff they&#39;re fighting to keep." It&#39;s harder because the unions haven&#39;t done more to fight for social benefits for all working people, not just employer-by-employer.

But it&#39;s not more than the transit workers deserve...than all workers deserve. It&#39;s a lot less than society can afford to pay, thanks to the vast wealth produced with our labor.

And a transit workers&#39; victory will strengthen all workers....or a transit workers&#39; defeat will weaken all workers. If they lose, all workers will say "If even they couldn&#39;t win, with the leverage they had....what chance do we have?"

Not to mention the damage that will be done to the very right to strike if these unionbusting attacks by the courts are successful.....if the strike&#39;s strong enough, they can demand the fines be rescinded or reduced as a condition of returning to work.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I&#39;ve seen it in two recent articles: http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/nycstrike.html & http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/dec2005/nyct-d21.shtml

But after a little bit of googling I also found this: http://www.unitedwaynyc.org/?id=69

These are the amounts for a family of two adults, a preschooler & a schoolage child to meet the "bare bones" minimum of costs to survive. It is "a level that is neither luxurius--or even comfortable".

In the Bronx: &#036;55,546
In Brooklyn: &#036;57,234
In Uptown Manhattan: &#036;54,590
In Downtown Manhattan: &#036;78,741
In Queen: &#036;60,028
In Staten Island: &#036;58,814

And this report is from 2004 -- the cost of living has continued to rise since then.

[Tekun]

^Gracias hermano :D

[RevolutionarySocialist MadRedDog]

Again news from that f**king a**hole Bloomberg:


MAYOR BLOOMBERG UPDATES NEW YORKERS ON ILLEGAL STRIKE BY TRANSIT WORKERS

Remarks by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg as prepared for delivery:

"Good afternoon. I would like to update people on what&#39;s going on, on
the roads and streets, in the courts, and also talk about what isn&#39;t
happening during Day 2 of the Illegal Selfish Strike of 2005.

"Over the last two days, we have seen New Yorkers doing what they have
to do to keep our City going. They have stood on long lines to get on
commuter trains; they have crowded onto ferries; they have carpooled
with strangers. They are brave, resilient and determined.

"The morning commute was heavier than yesterday according to information
from our Department of Transportation. We had heavier car volume on the
East River crossings as well as higher occupancy per car.

"The commuter rail system is absorbing additional passengers and helping
them get to work and school. This morning was the first time the LIRR
and Metro North had their contingency plans in effect which means they
have added trains and shuttle service. Stations where people can get
service are linked through www.nyc.gov, which also has the City&#39;s
complete contingency plan on it.

"We had more people travel to work on ferries. There was an increase in
passengers on the Staten Island Ferry, which actually carried more
people than normal. Capacity has been increased at the Brooklyn Army
Terminal Ferry Landing. There was also strong demand at Hunters Point in
Long Island City.

"I am concerned about reports of fare gouging by taxi drivers. We have
sent inspectors out to investigate and I encourage anyone who has
encountered this to call 311 and report it.

"As I indicated yesterday, we are modifying the contingency plan
slightly as needs adjust.

"5th Avenue and Madison Avenue, which previously had been open primarily
to emergency vehicles from 5am to 8pm, will now only have one lane
reserved for those vehicles and the other lanes will be open to general
traffic. The City has also lifted HOV restrictions at two Staten Island
parking lots, at Staten Island Yankee Stadium and at Cromwell Recreation
Center.

"So it looks like more people made it into work this morning, which is a
good thing but it can&#39;t even begin to make up for the loss of our mass
transit system.

"City service delivery remains strong. Our public safety workers
continue to do a great job. As with any event of this magnitude, the
Police Department shoulders much of the burden. They are out there at
checkpoints, securing transit facilities, and directing traffic.

"The Fire Department, aware that more congestion could slow response
times, has increased manning on some engines and put more personnel and
equipment in densely populated areas.

"911 call volume is slightly above normal but response times have held
steady. 311 call volume is higher than average. 311 set a new record
yesterday with over 240,000 calls.

"Like yesterday, schools opened two hours late although attendance,
while still below normal, is 10% higher than yesterday. With the
exception of PSAL games, all after-school activities are happening.

"But make no mistake about it, although the City is holding up well
under the circumstances, this illegal, selfish strike is hurting New
York and hurting people.

"The effects are rippling through our economy. When tourism is affected,
Broadway gets hurt. When people can&#39;t get here, our restaurants don&#39;t
fill up. Many restaurants are reporting a 40% decrease in business.
Attendance at some museums is down 80%. Delis need fresh food to sell
and are being forced to close early or aren&#39;t opening at all.

"Retail continues to be crippled. When deliveries don&#39;t make in, goods
don&#39;t make it on the shelves, shoppers can&#39;t shop and stores close.
Crowds are down 50% according to the Fifth Avenue BID. Shopping hubs
that rely on mass transportation are getting hammered: the Fulton Mall
has stores where business is down 90%. Fordham Road, one of Bronx&#39;s
premier retail hubs, has experienced a drop of 60% in sales.

"Even more important than the economic effects, are the consequences to
people&#39;s health.

"The young and the elderly should not spend extended amounts of time in
freezing cold weather. Also alarming is that some people have had to
delay chemotherapy or radiation treatments, because they haven&#39;t been
able to travel to clinics or hospitals. You can delay one treatment, but
not more than that.

"The New York Blood Center has declared a state of emergency. Blood
centers are unable collect products and blood drives have been canceled.

"Many home health aides, who care for the elderly and ill, have been
unable to get to work to help people who rely on them to take their
medication and get through the day.

"Without devoted employees walking to get to work, the situation would
be even worse. Robert Payne, who works at Beth Israel Hospital, walked 6
½ miles from Brooklyn to get to work. He is indicative of the dedication
of the city&#39;s healthcare workers and their unbelievable commitment to
patient care because patient care can&#39;t be compromised.

"This illegal and selfish strike needs to end now.

"Today in court, we are asking for a Temporary Restraining Order against
the TWU and for the Judge to again order the TWU back to work.
Disobeying this order would make the individual members of the unions
liable for serious financial penalties. This is separate from the MTA
suit which is costing the TWU &#036;1 million a day.

"In regards to that legal action, TWU members need to be aware that they
already lose two days pay for each day they strike.

"Yesterday, I was pleased to see that Mike O&#39;Brien, the President of the
TWU International, asked all members to return to work and that he and
the international union do not condone this illegal and selfish strike.
I urge all members to heed his instructions.

"Many MTA workers did show up yesterday. They will get paid and will not
have to pay these severe fines. I would like to thank them for doing the
right thing. They deserve all of our thanks.

"Roger Toussaint and the TWU board have sought to portray this strike as
a fight for working people. That argument doesn&#39;t hold water. Working
people are being hurt. Busboys are getting hurt; garment industry
workers are being hurt; owners of mom and pop businesses are being hurt.
No one is being spared.

"What frauds, claiming to be a champion of working families when their
illegal actions are costing New Yorkers their livelihoods. They should
stop trying to pass blame, stop their lame attempt to spin their
indefensible actions and get back to work.

"In case they don&#39;t and this strike continues, we&#39;ll get through it. We
won&#39;t cave, quit or surrender. New Yorkers always rise to the challenge."


"And before we hang the last capitalist, he will sell us the rope with which to do it" (Vladimir Iljitsj Lenin)

[Body Count]

Originally posted by RevolutionarySocialist [email protected] 22 2005, 11:58 AM
"And before we hang the last capitalist, he will sell us the rope with which to do it" (Vladimir Iljitsj Lenin)
:D :D :D

Damn Bloomberg&#33;

He makes me so sick trying to appeal to poor and working people, I almost threw up when I saw him walking across that bridge with people. As soon as the transit workers come back he will be back to his limo and escalade while all those people will be on the bus.

[RedJacobin]

70% of the workers are oppressed nationality: Black, Latino, and Asian.

that certainly puts Pig-Mayor Bloomberg&#39;s "thug" comment in context. he&#39;s racist to the core.

some links:

http://burning.typepad.com/burningman/2005...it_strike_.html (http://burning.typepad.com/burningman/2005/12/transit_strike_.html)

http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2005/12/62178.html

[Martin Blank]

On MSNBC now, the bourgeois mediator is saying that Toussaint and the other TWU negotiators are taking a deal to the Executive Board for ending the strike without a contract and submitting to "mediation" (binding arbitration). Toussaint & Co. are supporting this deal. I smell a sellout in the works.

Miles

[Body Count]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 04:02 PM
On MSNBC now, the bourgeois mediator is saying that Toussaint and the other TWU negotiators are taking a deal to the Executive Board for ending the strike without a contract and submitting to "mediation" (binding arbitration). Toussaint & Co. are supporting this deal. I smell a sellout in the works.

Miles
This is terrible.

This has set workers BACK now.

I wish they would have stayed strong, and fought for everything they wanted, but I suppose I was just being optimistic.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Yep, that&#39;s been the word from FPM comrades who have been on the lines with the transit workers since day one.

Apparently, Toussaint is ready to go back to work sin contracto as long as they take out the pension contribution increase for new hires. It&#39;s not surprising of course, he & the other labor lieutenants didn&#39;t want to go out on strike to begin with.


Damn Bloomberg&#33;

He makes me so sick trying to appeal to poor and working people, I almost threw up when I saw him walking across that bridge with people. As soon as the transit workers come back he will be back to his limo and escalade while all those people will be on the bus.

You know the great part about that is that the fucking guy doesn&#39;t even live in Brooklyn .. he took his limo across the bridge and then walked into Manhattan for a fucking photo op. Fuck Bloomberg.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Here it is, a crushing defeat for our class:

NYC Transit Union Moves to Return to Work

NEW YORK - Transit workers will take steps to restore service to New York&#39;s buses and subways while the union and transit authority resume negotiations after a three-day strike, a state mediator announced Thursday morning.

No timetable was announced for the restoration of service.

"Both parties have a genuine desire to resolve their differences," said Richard Curreri, head of a three-member state mediation panel. "They have agreed to resume negotiations while the TWU takes steps to return its membership."

The two sides returned to a Manhattan hotel around 1 a.m., the first time both sides were in the building since the strike was announced. On Wednesday, union president Roger Toussaint raised the possibility of a settlement when he said negotiations could resume if the
Metropolitan Transportation Authority took its current pension proposal off the table.

The announcement came 54 hours after workers walked out at 3 a.m. on Tuesday, forcing millions of commuters to find new ways of getting to work and costing the city hundreds of millions of dollars in revenues over the first two days of the walkout.

[coda]

:(
Hardly surprising however, everytime I saw Bloomberg make a statement he went at length to mentally manipulate the public against the strike stating how selfish the TWU were in comparison to the city firefighters, police and teachers who "went years without a contract and didn&#39;t cut off vital public services", along with the above statement that he read in part almost every hour. Government and public workers have it really bad in that regard making it almost impossible to carry out a long term strike and use all their power in bargaining. I remember the Federal Air traffic controllers strike in the early 1980&#39;s when Reagan fired every employee in retaliation.

Everyone should support this strike. They are blue-collar workers and the work is hardly intellectually stimulating or fun. a friend of mine worked for Metro North trains repairing the tracks, and he told me that whenever the trains came by-- every 1/2-1 hour, they would have to stand completely straight and still, bracing themselves to the ground with their own devices to keep from getting blown into or under the train.

[People&#39;s Coalition]

This is a total crushing of Freedom of Speech in this country.

[violencia.Proletariat]

id like to hear people promote reformism now :angry:

i hope we will see a rise in worker run unions again, such as the iww

[Sabocat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 12:27 AM

How exactly are the MTA workers spoiled?

You said it yourself, 50k for sitting behind a desk helping stupid people put money in the machines and telling tourists which way is uptown


Its obvious from whats happening in New York that they&#39;re priceless in running the city, yet they recieve lower middle class pay, less than &#036;50k on average, and thats spoiled?

Are we talking like, Greenwich or something? That&#39;s such bullshit, where im from 50k a year is a damn good job...and for the arguements sake i looked it up...per capita income in NYC is &#036;22,402 and 21.2% live below the poverty line...just for trivia, if NYC was it&#39;s own country it&#39;s GDP would be the 17th highest in the world...more than belguim and almost matching russia...


&#036;50k isnt a lot when you factor in the expenses of living in New York which has one of the highest costs of living in the country.

A month&#39;s salary is &#036;4150, lets work this out

what expenses would the average new yorker have in a month?

grocery - &#036;400
rent - &#036;2500
utilities - &#036;500
cell phone - &#036;100
transportation - &#036;75
other neccesary items - &#036;300
throw away money - &#036;300

thats reasonable. dont have to live in manhattan...staten and queens...you can find yourself some deals

thats middle class salary. and they want more.

good for them, nothing glorious, but they seem like asses to people who dont have any food to eat at all....
Obviously you&#39;re not supporting a household.

There are a couple of big omissions in your list.

Firstly, where are the taxes in this equation? Even at a modest 27% that only leaves about &#036;3150 in actual wages. Even that number is optimistic, as I&#39;m not including Social Security, any city taxes etc. The other thing to remember is that most of the transit workers aren&#39;t making 50k. The range is 35k-50k yearly. At 35k per year, I think you can see where that would leave them.

You missed medical insurance as well. For a family, conservatively, most people will pay at least 300 per month, and that&#39;s if the employer is kicking in as well. If not, figure about 1000 per month for family medical coverage.

You also didn&#39;t figure on vehicle ownership either. That 75 bucks a month for transportation would barely cover the train/buses/ferries monthly. If you add a car onto that figure, count on at least 500 bucks a month between car loan, gas, insurance, and maintenance.... at least.

Even forgetting about medical and a car, a quick check of the math, would reveal that according to your "montly expense list" the worker making 50k per year would be about &#036;1025 in the hole every month. What if that family also wanted to send a child to college? Where is that money supposed to come from?

You state that "you don&#39;t have to live in Manhattan", but naturally if you commute to work from greater distances, you are also incurring greater monthly transportation costs.

So in reality, this "middle class salary" as you call it is essentially a sustenance living wage for the worker.

On top of the salary, the typical MTA worker also gets to spend his workday in fairly unhealthy environments. The air quality in the subway tunnels is poor, (brake dust, ozone from arcing electricity etc,) and bus drivers get a steady flow of diesel fumes, smog etc, so there is an excellent chance that these workers will also have health issues down the road.

[STREETasmyCanvas]

man, yall are some ridiculous mothafuckas


With people like you "on our side" who needs enemies?

yup. youre so right, shoot down a fellow comrade and working class person cause he makes way less than 50k a year and thinks having no transportation is a pain in the ass


Why do the damands of the working class have to be "just" in the eyes of the bourgeoisie?

whatchu mean?


im sick and tired of people criticizing the strikers

not critizing, just saying they have more money than i do, id be happy to be in there position, and its a pain in the ass to not have transportation. i know people who missed three days pay cause they can&#39;t walk to manhattan from flatbush, its a fucking inconvience, wouldn&#39;t you agree?


He&#39;s not "on our side", comrade. He&#39;s just another petty-bourgeois leftist. Treat him accordingly.

suck my left nut miles from the communist league. first of all, ive posted like what? 12 posts on this forum EVER? and you sit there and label and judge me? im not a sectarian, authoritarian, living on mars, asshole marxist like you...so that makes me an enemy? shit, im just a working class person, who thinks its a pain in the ass to not have any transportation, and im pointing out there are people in much worse situations and im counter-revolutionary...great...thats the problem with you communists, you CONSTANTLY seperate yourselves from the people youre trying to liberate all cause youre not part of that class, and you dont know what its living off 23k a year....man, if communism is democracy, and if its a peoples movement, then why am i get shot down...my opinion is wildly shared by many people i work and live with...i wish i was making 57k a year and i wish i had a damn ride, so now im a criminal...if you think something is wrong in my thought process then please, actually explain whats wrong in my ideologies than saying shit like this...


He&#39;s just another petty-bourgeois leftist

and this...


people like you

people like me are the people youre trying to liberate, and doing a nice job of it too asshole


Why shouldn&#39;t they get a piece of the 1 billion surplus they created? So the bosses can their pennies worth. That major is a piece of shit; making the workers seem greedy/ lazy. I suppose the old ways of scabes and anti-union gangs are back in NY.

im on their side, i was just trying to give the situation a different fucking perspective, for all the other working class people are losing a lot of working hours cause they can&#39;t get to work...is it worth it?


These are the amounts for a family of two adults, a preschooler & a schoolage child to meet the "bare bones" minimum of costs to survive. It is "a level that is neither luxurius--or even comfortable".

In the Bronx: &#036;55,546
In Brooklyn: &#036;57,234
In Uptown Manhattan: &#036;54,590
In Downtown Manhattan: &#036;78,741
In Queen: &#036;60,028
In Staten Island: &#036;58,814

And this report is from 2004 -- the cost of living has continued to rise since then.

ok so thats about 27k per adult, so if you have two parents who work at MTA then youre straight, taking in account that most people dont have two parents, that offsets the whole thing cause expenses would be different


Obviously you&#39;re not supporting a household.

another personal attack, do yall mofuckas know me???


where are the taxes in this equation

well i figured if they make really like 57-65k with taxes it would be around 50k, but i was wrong, my fault


OVERALL, im aggrevated with your reflections on my comments cause you just shot me down, personal shots and such, im a working class person, not supporting a family, and youre sitting here making me your enemy just cause i said what people on my block are saying, so in conclusion, fuck off and stop trying to be sooooo communist you seperate yourself from the views of the people youre trying to &#39;liberate&#39;

PS - for the record dont ban be because of this thread, im a leftist i promise, just trying to put a different perspective on things because im not trying to live in leninist russia

[violencia.Proletariat]

cause he makes way less than 50k a year and thinks having no transportation is a pain in the ass

do you live in nyc? no. its one of the biggest and most expensive cities in the world.


not critizing, just saying they have more money than i do

&#036;50,000 is not the same everywhere you go in america. it might seem like a lot to you but once your in a very large city its not worth nearly as much if you live there.


i know people who missed three days pay cause they can&#39;t walk to manhattan from flatbush, its a fucking inconvience, wouldn&#39;t you agree?

so what? the transit workers cant just sit back and be fucked because people rely on the transportation. the workers who rely on the transportation should be doing the same as the TSU are doing.


im just a working class person, who thinks its a pain in the ass to not have any transportation

you have transportation.


and im pointing out there are people in much worse situations

the people who are loosing wages from the transit strike are much better off than the third world. if people in the third world can survive years the way they do, those who live in nyc can do it for a few days.


ok so thats about 27k per adult, so if you have two parents who work at MTA then youre straight, taking in account that most people dont have two parents, that offsets the whole thing cause expenses would be different

what makes you think none of these employees have kids? kids in college? medical conditions? other family members to take care of? it seems to be you thats not trying to help people. they are making a stand for whats theirs but your shooting them down. for all those loosing wages because of the strike they should do the same.


im a working class person

yes your whole post seems to be "im more prole than thou". the thing is, we dont know that, this is the internet.

[coda]

Streetasmycanvas, since you live in New York, you should know better. Everything here is outrageously expensive and overpriced.

After you&#39;ve worked 20 or more years and still can&#39;t meet the cost of living and barely scraping by, because living cost goes up but wages stay the same, then you&#39;ll support all strikes and understand how one strike empowers all workers.

The majority of wages and the cost of living is reflected in the federal minimum wage, which has gone up about a whole &#036;1.50 in 26 years.

[STREETasmyCanvas]

ok ill fold that arguement cause im not that passionate about it put what i am worried about is...

do you think 34,000 workers striking for 3 days was worth the money the thousand more average new yorkers lost because they didn&#39;t have transportation?


you have transportation

think of the people there that dont


so what? the transit workers cant just sit back and be fucked because people rely on the transportation. the workers who rely on the transportation should be doing the same as the TSU are doing.

so what? the people are just supposed to sit back and be fucked cause the transit workers are fighting for higher wages? it can go either way, but i think the average new york lost more than the MTA workers are gonna gain


the people who are loosing wages from the transit strike are much better off than the third world. if people in the third world can survive years the way they do, those who live in nyc can do it for a few days.

i liked that comment cause its an issue i think about a lot, its really all relative...i mean to people who are starving in africa im sure an MTA workers life is luxury...which also inspires one to think, the gap between upper lower class and upper middle is probably about the same as lower lower class and lower middle class...so why are we all on the same side? i know why, but its just something to think about...i mean, a missing piece in my puzzle of marxism/anarchism is this very issue, how do we get people of different extremes of classes (talking bout in lower and middle classes) relate to each other? how do we get all people to see why revolution is such a necessity right now? cause as a communist you can get many different reactions from people...you could come off insane, you could come off like a conspiracy theorist, an extremist (which is true), estentially how do we show people theyre getting fucked and also show them what they can do about it?

thats why i think the revolution won&#39;t be communist or marxist or anarchist or whatever, itll just be a peoples movement (like its supposed to be), and in the midst of the revolution the average revolutionary wont know who marx or engel was, theyll just be pissed at the people on the top, and theyll do something about it

any other way establishes bueracracies, ex China, Cuba, Russia

being communist isn&#39;t a political association, its not something you can and can&#39;t be, its a fucking way of life

[RevolutionarySocialist MadRedDog]

The situation that most people here are trying to clear up is that there should be no division between workers. Is it because you are exploited more heavily than others that other workers should allow further attacks on their wages and living circumstances?

The bosses are behind all your back laughing..."we can break collective struggle by making workers fight each other" is what they think. Your boss does not care about your interest or the collective interest of the class, which are interlinked. If you want to fight to improve your salary then join in the collective struggle, not criticize it. The longer such a struggle lasts, the more difficult it is for capitalists to be able to continue to rule over the working class.

[STREETasmyCanvas]

^^^ damn. :o

and from a trotskyist

yall have just been put to shame. :lol: :lol: :P

but yeah i agree, nicely put mad dog, but does no one have any opinions of the other points i raised?

[violencia.Proletariat]

think of the people there that dont

so we should give up and form a political party then? :lol:


do you think 34,000 workers striking for 3 days was worth the money the thousand more average new yorkers lost because they didn&#39;t have transportation?

yes. because if you look at the entire situation from a larger view, that temporary loss is not anything substantial. its worth a short sacrifice to inspire more action in the future. if you only care about giving the working class minor improvements take up charity not revolution.


so what? the people are just supposed to sit back and be fucked cause the transit workers are fighting for higher wages?

well what else can they do, the transit is on strike :lol: they should do the same.


but i think the average new york lost more than the MTA workers are gonna gain

and they would have eventually lost anyways. you think by the TWU not striking that workers conditions would be any better? would all the bosses decide to give raises? no. people are getting fucked strike or not. and if you are very concerned about this than promote community action to help with food/transportation in proletarian neighborhoods during strikes.


i mean, a missing piece in my puzzle of marxism/anarchism is this very issue, how do we get people of different extremes of classes (talking bout in lower and middle classes) relate to each other?

in times of potential revolution you would probably find a very large decline in the "middle class" because of the gap between wealthy and poor. but i dont see any problem "uniting" them.


how do we get all people to see why revolution is such a necessity right now?

you arent. you yourself can convince a few others right now but probably not a large ammount. economic situations are the opertunities to promote our cause with a large effect. if it is inevitable then you dont have to worry about "chainging the world".


estentially how do we show people theyre getting fucked and also show them what they can do about it?

people know when they are really being fucked, thats when they look for other options.


being communist isn&#39;t a political association, its not something you can and can&#39;t be, its a fucking way of life

what the hell is that supposed to mean? its a "way of life"? it is something you can and cant be. if your religious you cant be a communist. if your a sexist/racist/capitalist you cant be a communist.

[People&#39;s Coalition]

Looks like The Communist Party USA (CPUSA) is going to make a big issue out of this a International Communist Meeting In Greece and It looks like they are trying to keep the strike going.

News Story (International Communist Meeting)

http://www.cpusa.org/article/articleview/732/2/3/

[Body Count]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 11:17 PM
do you think 34,000 workers striking for 3 days was worth the money the thousand more average new yorkers lost because they didn&#39;t have transportation?

I&#39;m no expert, but, it would seem to me that the world that we all hope to live in some day is gonna come at a great price, and that many people, including the workers and peasants of the world, are gonna have to make great sacrifices to achieve it.

I&#39;m so sorry for anyone who was seriously crippled because of this strike, hell, I&#39;m sorry for the strikers who lost 3 days pay and now have a fine to pay, but the sacrifice was worth it to me. That is, assuming that some people were actually taught a lesson and know that they don&#39;t have the wage slaves that they think they do.

[Martin Blank]

The comrade doth protest too much, methinks.


Originally posted by STREETasmyCanvas+Dec 22 2005, 05:07 PM--> (STREETasmyCanvas &#064; Dec 22 2005, 05:07 PM)suck my left nut miles from the communist league.[/b]

Oooh&#33; You kiss your mother with that mouth? Anyway, no thanks. I&#39;m spoken for. I&#39;ll let you know if that changes, though.


Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 05:07 PM
first of all, ive posted like what? 12 posts on this forum EVER? and you sit there and label and judge me?

Oh, quit whining. Of those 12 or so posts, you spent a good chunk of them regurgitating MTA propaganda dressed up in your own phony "woiker" slang.


Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 05:07 PM
im not a sectarian, authoritarian, living on mars, asshole marxist like you...so that makes me an enemy?

No. You being a scabby, whiny apologist for Bloomberg, Pataki and the MTA make you an enemy. And, it&#39;s Comrade Asshole to you.


Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 05:07 PM
shit, im just a working class person,...

If that was really true, then you&#39;d know that we don&#39;t appreciate "one of us" parroting the bosses.


Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 05:07 PM
who thinks its a pain in the ass to not have any transportation,...

I just spent what little Holiday money I had to fix the heater core and water pump in a &#036;300 P.O.S. so that I can continue to make it to work (there is no real mass transit here). Yeah, we all know it&#39;s a pain in the ass to be without transportation. What will your next great revelation be? That air contains oxygen?

Kiddo, LIFE UNDER CAPITALISM is a pain in the ass. It&#39;s best you learn that lesson now. (And if I sound condescending here, I am guilty as charged and freely admit it.)


Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 05:07 PM
and im pointing out there are people in much worse situations and im counter-revolutionary...

Again, what new revelation awaits? Again, your apologies for capitalists define your role.


Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 05:07 PM
great...thats the problem with you communists, you CONSTANTLY seperate yourselves from the people youre trying to liberate all cause youre not part of that class,...

I think I should let others on this board pull your coat on the pitfalls of even attempting to play "Cred Check" with me.


Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 05:07 PM
and you dont know what its living off 23k a year....

You&#39;re right, I don&#39;t know what it&#39;s like living on &#036;23,000/year. I&#39;ve never made that much money during any year of my life.


Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 05:07 PM
man, if communism is democracy, and if its a peoples movement, then why am i get shot down...

Because, as a communist, I have a democratic right to tell you that your position sucks and that you sound like a shill for the bosses. If you don&#39;t like it, then maybe you need to rethink your view on democratic rights.


Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 05:07 PM
my opinion is wildly shared by many people i work and live with...

And that is truly sad, if you are to be taken at your word (that you are working class and that, by implication, these people you live and work with are in a similar position).


Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 05:07 PM
i wish i was making 57k a year and i wish i had a damn ride,...

Don&#39;t we all.


Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 05:07 PM
so now im a criminal...

Not a criminal, just myopic and about as class conscious as a brick.


[email protected] 22 2005, 05:07 PM
if you think something is wrong in my thought process then please, actually explain whats wrong in my ideologies than saying shit like this...

It&#39;s quite simple, really. In repeating the propaganda of Bloomberg, Pataki and the MTA (that "MTA workers are spoiled already", for example -- which is not too far from the New York Post calling the workers "greedy" and "overpaid"), you a) divide working people at a time when unity is most needed, and b) make it easier for the bosses to break the strike, thus making it easier in the future for them to go after the shit wages you make and make them even shittier.

Congratulations on fashioning the rope the bosses are going to hang you with. Hope you like working for minimum wage in the future. Just remember, they can call you "spoiled", too, if they wish.

Miles

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 04:38 PM
yes your whole post seems to be "im more prole than thou". the thing is, we dont know that, this is the internet.
Yes, exactly. Miles ("Communist League") should remember that as well. It&#39;s kinda amusing watching the two of them ("Communist League" and "Street as My Canvas") play that dead-end ad hominem game on each other.

[Martin Blank]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2005, 02:24 AM
Yes, exactly. Miles ("Communist League") should remember that as well. It&#39;s kinda amusing watching the two of them ("Communist League" and "Street as My Canvas") play that dead-end ad hominem game on each other.
Remember what, exactly? That your bruised ego continues to nourish your obsession with me and the League? That you&#39;ll make an unholy alliance with anyone (e.g., Romanm) to further your obsession? That, apart from your ability to regurgitate links from the Militant website, you have nothing to say about the current world situation? That you and your organization&#39;s decades-long failure to recapture the "glory days" of the 1930s or 1960s (and subsequent zig-zags that only compound that failure) has rendered you both to the dustbin of history? That, because of all this, all of your sputtering vituperation is little more than an anachronistic echo?

Miles

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

first of all, ive posted like what? 12 posts on this forum EVER? and you sit there and label and judge me?

12+ however many you posted as Novemba before you were banned.

I think Miles covered the rest of your post.. there&#39;s not much more to say.

[Severian]

Update:

Transit Workers Debate Whether Strike Was Worth It (NY Times) (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/29/nyregion/nyregionspecial3/29workers.html)

Seems to me that the dropping of the two-tier pensions is important - there&#39;s no better way to create deep divisions in a union than any kind of two-tier setup. But the health-care payout opens the door for bigger and bigger paycheck deductions.

Beyond particular features of the proposed contract, the Transit Workers are in a stronger position than if they hadn&#39;t struck at all. They&#39;ll be in a better position in future contract renewals, with the bosses knowing they struck once and might do it again; other workers will in a better situation for their example.

But they&#39;re in a weaker situation for their official leaders having bowed to government intimidation; especially since the membership had no say in going back to work and so is facing this proposed, not yet voted on contract almost as a fait accompli.