Its Official! EVO MORALES President of Bolivia

[SimonBolivar]

Some of you may and some of you may not agree with him.
But with the fragile "democracies" that we have in Latin America, lack of outstanding leaders, and constant commercial and military opressions by the US government. We should be optimistic on the leader chosen by the people of Bolivia.. A Washington nightmare has become president... Now we just have to wait and see the coming developments.. I have the feeling that is going to get ugly!!

Viva Evo.. el primer presidente INDIO de bolivia.. viva la clase trabajadora


La Paz 18 Dic-El candidato conservador boliviano Jorge Quiroga reconoció la victoria de su principal rival, el líder cocalero Evo Morales, en los comicios presidenciales de hoy. "Felicito a los candidatos del MAS (Movimiento Al Socialismo, de Morales); han hecho una buena campaña electoral.

Es el momento de dejar atrás toda diferencia y mirar hacia adelante a un futuro con tranquilidad", afirmó Quiroga a la prensa. Según conteos de cuatro cadenas televisivas, Morales habría obtenido el 50 por ciento de los sufragios necesarios para ser elegido nuevo presidente de Bolivia.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Great! Break out the red flags, a petty bourgeois misleader who has openly promised to "protect private property" and build "Andean capitalism" was elected president!!

:rolleyes:

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

The important thing is that he'll offer some opposition for the U.S. I'm happy for Bolivia.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

So does the Iranian government, are you happy for the workers and peasants of Iran?

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

I admit that I don't know much about him, but how is he at all comparable to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? Also, when did he say what you attributed to him?

Has he not said this?

"The worst enemy of humanity is capitalism. That is what provokes uprisings like our own, a rebellion against a system, against a neoliberal model, which is the representation of a savage capitalism. If the entire world doesn't acknowledge this reality, that the national states are not providing even minimally for health, education and nourishment, then each day the most fundamental human rights are being violated."

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

You said you were "happy for Bolivia" because Morales opposes the US. So extending that logic, I asked if you were happy for Iranians since their president opposes the US aswell.

Morales is a fucking sellout misleader who convinced large sectors of a revolutionary mass of workers, peasants, and Indians to give up their aspirations and instead vote for him.

See this article (http://freepeoplesmovement.org/fp13e.html) and this thread (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=44056).


Although a fierce critic of free-market policies that he blames for Bolivia's widespread poverty, Morales moderated his tone as election day approached — assuring the business community that he would protect property rights and fight drug trafficking.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051217/ap_on_...HNlYwN5bmNhdA--

From the thread linked:


I am telling you that the coming elections are just an attempt to destroy the historical proposals of the people. With this in view, we believe that this electoral process will be exactly like the ones there have been so far, that is to say, we are in this supposed change in order to change nothing. I mean, the constitutional order will continue unaltered.


I think that the bad thing here, because I have no doubt the oligarchy has to impede this process, is that these people’s uprising that almost ends up with a victorious uprising is brutally betrayed by the MAS (Movement Towards Socialism). I would say specifically by Mr. Evo Morales because this man is fighting with us, he is in the trenches with us the COB (Bolivian Workers Union), the Mine Workers Union Federation of Bolivia (FSTMB), the CSUTCB, the rural and urban teachers, and all the organizations that joined this fight with the demands for nationalization of the oil industry and a Constituent Assembly. Right then and there Mr. Evo Morales leaves the circle and surrenders to the oligarchic proposal, the proposal of the dominating classes, the transnational corporations and hydrocarbon companies, and they go and say: “OK, let’s have the elections earlier”. He already knew that this was a game of the then President Carlos Mesa, whom he has always been in bed with for he has been part of his government. This naturally stops the movement because one of the sectors had important progress, but he walks out, discourages the people and then finally withdraws calling early elections.


I understand that there is no doubt anymore about Mr. Evo Morales’ position since in the last demonstrations he did the same thing. In October 2003 he wasn’t in the country. He didn’t defeat Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada (Goni); he never took part in that. He withdrew from the fight ten days before Goni fell. He was on vacation, or in another international mission in Switzerland. He wasn’t in the country. He was in Europe and from there he gave orders for them not to surrender. His people from MAS didn’t surrender and suddenly he appears like the great supporter of the fight when the truth is that we, the CSUTCB, were the ones who really made Goni fell. He talks about Felipe Quispe and Jaime Solares, the partners from El Alto, Roberto de la Cruz and many other leaders, but the one who falsely shows is Evo Morales.

That’s why I am telling you there was no doubt about what was going to happen with Mr. Evo Morales, that is to say, I am convinced that he works with the oil industry companies because to the interior of the parliament their proposal never included to nationalize the oil industry. Never! MAS’s proposal with its 27 delegates and 8 senators was the 50%, which means to allow the presence of oil industry companies in the country, to forgive the 76 damaging contracts signed by Goni that passed by the hands of Tuto Quiroga and other presidents such as Hugo Banzer and Jaime Paz Zamora. It means to forgive, that is to ask them to pay a little more for the tenancy, a bit more taxes and royalties, ”but you can stay”. That is Evo Morales’ proposal and that is his proposal today. On the contrary, the people’s proposal was different: the oil industry companies must leave; it is time for nationalization because the people, the First Nations, the Andean-Amazonian indigenous world, proposed the nationalization because all the wells are in our territory, and as such we must get them back. And Mr. Evo Morales never bet on the nationalization, neither yesterday, nor today or tomorrow, even if he becomes President won’t he do it. If he had wanted, he would have done it already. It was in his hands. He didn’t shoot the ball 6 meters from the unguarded goal, and being able to score he says: “no, I am going to play in the other little field, that is, the next elections”.


QUOTE
As for Evo Morales's more mundane quest to be president, [Felipe] Quispe [leader of the CSUTCB peasant union] is dismissive. "Evo is like [President Alejandro] Toledo in Peru. Nothing will change for the Indians if he is president." Getting back to the big picture, he sums up: "We will rewrite history with our own blood. There will be a new sun, and even the rocks and the trees will be happy."


On the question of socialism, however, he [Alvaro Garcia Linera -- Vice-presidental candidate running w/ Morales]has worked hard to convince the electorate that he will never mention this word again (see Miguel Lora Fuentes, "Alvaro García Linera: 'El capitalismo andino es un paso intermedio para imaginar el socialismo'," Bolpress, October 7, 2005).

It should not be a surprise that García Linera winces at the mere mention of socialism, since the MAS never has been a socialist party, despite the name. Its most important social base remains the coca growers in the semi-tropical region of Cochabamba. The most coherent economic policy that the party has ever had is its anti-imperialist stance to fight US plans for coca eradication in the region. Although necessary to sustain (just barely) the livelihood of growers in the semi-tropical regions in the departments of Cochabamba and La Paz, the policy of growing coca does not amount to a sound policy for national development.


Coming from Evo, however, it is likely that "nationalization" does not mean expropriation of the transnational gas companies. It is often seen to only mean reformulating the constitution so that Bolivia "owns" the gas both above and underground (currently the Bolivian state has property rights over the latter). The most coherent platform on offer, the "Ten Point Plan," has been described by one commentator as a collaborative program with the big business, landowners, and transnationals in the name of "reinventing democracy" and "Andean capitalism" (LOR-CI, "La burguesía teme a las expectativas que un gobierno del MAS podría despertar en las masas." Rebelión, October 1, 2005).

[Viva Fidel]

where did he promise to protect private property?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Try reading the post directly above yours a little more carefully. The first quote.

[RedJacobin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 01:42 AM
Great! Break out the red flags, a petty bourgeois misleader who has openly promised to "protect private property" and build "Andean capitalism" was elected president!!

:rolleyes:
Chavez made similar statements about protecting private property, foreign investments, etc. He wasn't elected on a very radical basis in 1998, but changes taking place in Venezuela under his administration have been quite significant.

I think statements like that come from the need to win the friendly neutrality or support of the middle classes. It's important not to alienate them more than necessary in the initial stages.


Morales is a fucking sellout misleader who convinced large sectors of a revolutionary mass of workers, peasants, and Indians to give up their aspirations and instead vote for him.
Or maybe those workers, peasants, and Indians just had a better understanding of their own aspirations and the strategic bends necessary to achieve them.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Chavez made similar statements about protecting private property, foreign investments, etc. He wasn't elected on a very radical basis in 1998, but changes taking place in Venezuela under his administration have been quite significant.

Yeah. His presidency (but mostly the grass roots organizations beihind it) have made Venezuelan capitalism significantly easier to live in. They haven't built socialism, or tried.

Does the working class rule in Venezuela? Are their workers councils? Are there structures being forged that will allow to the working class to rule in Venezuela in the future? Has there been a real agrarian reform? Nationalizations?

Hell, has the working class even been armed? Here we are 8 years after his election and the first order of arms have been made ... and they're no where near enough.

Gains have surely been made, and more openings have been created for a genuine movement towards socialism in Venezuela; and so of course, we should support and defend that.. but let's make sure we stay realistic and grounded.


I think statements like that come from the need to win the friendly neutrality or support of the middle classes. It's important not to alienate them more than necessary in the initial stages.

Yeah, that's exactly what they are. But I'm a communist, so I'm not particularly worried about the petty bourgeois. I'm worried about the working class and its oppressed allies in the peasantry.

The people that worry the most about the petty bourgeois in these situations are petty bourgeois reformists... like Morales!

The fact is that the workers, peasants, and Indians had a legitimate chance to take state power, and they were tricked to instead supporting Morales in a presidential bid.

Anyone (who had already supported a bourgeois government -- and served in it!) who says "no don't try to take state power, instead, vote for me!" is no ally of our class.


Or maybe those workers, peasants, and Indians just had a better understanding of their own aspirations and the strategic bends necessary to achieve them.

Right... oh wait, wrong:

"MAS’s proposal with its 27 delegates and 8 senators was the 50%, which means to allow the presence of oil industry companies in the country, to forgive the 76 damaging contracts signed by Goni that passed by the hands of Tuto Quiroga and other presidents such as Hugo Banzer and Jaime Paz Zamora. It means to forgive, that is to ask them to pay a little more for the tenancy, a bit more taxes and royalties, ”but you can stay”. That is Evo Morales’ proposal and that is his proposal today. On the contrary, the people’s proposal was different: the oil industry companies must leave; it is time for nationalization because the people, the First Nations, the Andean-Amazonian indigenous world, proposed the nationalization because all the wells are in our territory, and as such we must get them back. And Mr. Evo Morales never bet on the nationalization, neither yesterday, nor today or tomorrow, even if he becomes President won’t he do it. If he had wanted, he would have done it already. It was in his hands."

[RedJacobin]

Here's what Prensa Latina, based in Cuba, had to say:

http://www.plenglish.com/


MAS Decalogue to Change Bolivia

La Paz, Dec 16 (Prensa Latina) Nationalizing hydrocarbons and all the natural resources, and eradicating neoliberalism are two measures that the Movement Towards Socialism (MAS) intends to implement if Evo Morales wins in Bolivia´s Sunday elections.

These actions are part of the progressive party´s Decalogue Proposal, a 10-part platform founded on a constituent assembly as the instrument to re-found the country in the interests of the people.

For MAS, the constituent assembly should eradicate the neoliberal State, which is excluding, discriminating, and colonial, and design a national, productive community-State with dignity, to improve the lives of the country´s inhabitants.

The assembly should also recover national effective control over its natural resources and guarantee that they are at the service of the population´s welfare.

Nationalization of hydrocarbons and other natural resources establishes that gas and oil belong to Bolivians and not the transnationals, and that the State, and not those corporations, has complete control and management of the productive chain.

The MAS program states those natural resources must boost productive development and job creation, with reactivation of the productive machine, production of the manufacturing industry, micro and small companies, and the agro industry.

Political decentralization, regional autonomies with solidarity and reciprocity, and strengthening national unity based on cultural and regional diversity, are also proposals of the progressive organization.

The decalogue includes a policy to fight corruption, with a fortune investigation law to be implemented for ex presidents and other former top officials in power in the last 20 years.

MAS has promised that the legislation will make possible confiscation of illegally obtained goods and will establish sentences of up to 20 years for those corrupt officials, and it will be subject to approval through a referendum.

In the public administration sphere, MAS has planned to approve an austerity law that will reduce excessive spending, eliminate redundant personnel, and secret State funds, and create a new wage scale that establishes reasonable limits for top officials´ salaries.

The organization is offering to eliminate large estates and speculative possession of lands, speed-up providing farmers with plots of land, and grant property titles to indigenous peoples, farmers, and small property owners.

It also offers legal security to farmers and financing for agricultural producers to recover properties currently in the hands of the bank, seized for debts.

MAS is also proposing food sovereignty and protecting national producers from foreign competition, including a city security plan and determined struggle against drug traffic, creation of a new social security system, and a law to establish community education, which respects pluro-nationality and multi-linguism.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

That's nothing new over what I already posted.

But what Morales means by "nationalization of hydrocarbons" is nothing like what is usually meant by a statement like that...

Let me post this again, since apparently I need to..

"MAS’s proposal with its 27 delegates and 8 senators was the 50%, which means to allow the presence of oil industry companies in the country, to forgive the 76 damaging contracts signed by Goni that passed by the hands of Tuto Quiroga and other presidents such as Hugo Banzer and Jaime Paz Zamora. It means to forgive, that is to ask them to pay a little more for the tenancy, a bit more taxes and royalties, ”but you can stay”. That is Evo Morales’ proposal and that is his proposal today. On the contrary, the people’s proposal was different: the oil industry companies must leave; it is time for nationalization because the people, the First Nations, the Andean-Amazonian indigenous world, proposed the nationalization because all the wells are in our territory, and as such we must get them back. And Mr. Evo Morales never bet on the nationalization, neither yesterday, nor today or tomorrow, even if he becomes President won’t he do it. If he had wanted, he would have done it already. It was in his hands."

[RedJacobin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 03:54 AM
Does the working class rule in Venezuela? Are their workers councils? Are there structures being forged that will allow to the working class to rule in Venezuela in the future? Has there been a real agrarian reform? Nationalizations?

Hell, has the working class even been armed? Here we are 8 years after his election and the first order of arms have been made ... and they're no where near enough.

Gains have surely been made, and more openings have been created for a genuine movement towards socialism in Venezuela; and so of course, we should support and defend that.. but let's make sure we stay realistic and grounded.
Chavez was the one who initiated a national discussion on socialism in Venezuela. He isn't exactly holding back some movement to carry out land reform or form workers councils. Even as head of a bourgeois state, he's been pushing the movement as far as he can from his position.

Land reform is a complicated process because 85% of Venezuela lives in urban areas. Neoliberal reforms in the early 1990s shifted 90% of the rural population into cities, turning the great majority into an informal urban proletariat. Any plan that emphasizes long-term changes in the countryside at expense of satisfying immediate demands for education and health care in the barrios will lose support and collapse.

At the moment, it looks like the formation of workers councils is still largely a hypothetical question, through no fault of Chavez's.


But I'm a communist, so I'm not particularly worried about the petty bourgeois. I'm worried about the working class and its oppressed allies in the peasantry.
You might be not interested in the petty-bourgeoisie, but they're interested in you. And if you unnecessarily antagonize them, you'll have a mass base for reaction on your hands, when basic national tasks haven't even been solved in Latin America.


The fact is that the workers, peasants, and Indians had a legitimate chance to take state power, and they were tricked to instead supporting Morales in a presidential bid.
According to that analysis, the workers, peasants, and Indians must be pretty dumb. They were tricked by a petty-bourgeois misleader!

I don't know, I'm more inclined to defer to their own judgement, which is overwhelmingly in favor of Morales.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

According to that analysis, the workers, peasants, and Indians must be pretty dumb. They were tricked by a petty-bourgeois misleader!

I don't know, I'm more inclined to defer to their own judgement, which is overwhelmingly in favor of Morales.

You don't have to be "dumb" to be tricked. Most proles around the world are tricked into participating in bourgeois elections, does that make them dumb?

"Their own judgement" has already been laid out in this thread and others. They want complete nationalization and the "multinationals" out; neither of which they'll get under a Morales presidency.

And "overwhelmingly" might be a bit of an exageration. As I've pointed out, many major unions and Indian groups oppose Morales and his betrayal.

They "overwhelmingly" were calling for workers to power through a constituent assembly during the second gas wars.. so if you really are "inclined to defer to their own judgement", then that would be the struggle you support.

[bolshevik butcher]

Does the working class rule in Venezuela? Are their workers councils? Are there structures being forged that will allow to the working class to rule in Venezuela in the future? Has there been a real agrarian reform? Nationalizations?

Hell, has the working class even been armed? Here we are 8 years after his election and the first order of arms have been made ... and they're no where near enough.

Actually there are workers councils in Venezuela, Chavez recently appealed to worker to occupy factories. 100 000 ak47s is quite a lot to me. Natnalizaiton, yes, venepal ring any bells? I agree that Chavez hasnt gone far enough but he has become more and more radicalized of late.

As for Moralez, he is more radical than Chavez when he was elected. Hopefully the Bolivian revolution will be faster than the on in Venezuela.

[ComradeOm]

I welcome this for two reasons.

1) It clearly demonstrates that there is the desire in Latin America for change. The old order is no longer considered acceptable. That in itself is something to be welcomed. There remains the chance that these movements will spiral out of control. Both Moralez and Chavez have succeeded in mobilising the proletariat and peasants by promising them a better future. They will have to deliver or the mob will take matters into their own hands.

2) This is an advancement of the anti-US bourgeois agenda in Boliva. While that may not sound like much it is a very signficant milestone in the nation's development. The only possibility for South America to develop modern capitalism, as seen in the US and Europe, is by breaking the links with the US. I'd prefer to see revolution but in this case evolution is acceptable. Both will, eventually, lead to socialism.

Plus its always good to see workers do well.

[BattleOfTheCowshed]

Well, I'm glad they chose him over the right-wing guy, but as others have stated Evo Morales is not a Socialist. I think his success will depend on what has made Chavez increasingly successful: his ability to be moved to the left by the working class. Chavez began a nationalist reformist and has continuously moved farther to the left. Is he a Socialist? No, but he is still exciting to watch as he has not only challenged neo-liberalism and capitalism, but has increasingly been allowed to move leftward by the masses, almost as if setting himself up to be overthrown by the working class. Only time will tell but for now I see this as a fairly positive development.

[bolshevik butcher]

Chavez is now a socialist. Well he has called for international socialism several tiems this year and quoted marx, lenin trotsky and rosa luxemburg.

[Guerrilla22]

I like the guy. He's the country's first ever indigeneous pres. He has vowed to implement a move towards socialism, which I know doesn't necessarily mean socilism will exist in the technical sense, however I would rather see the Bolivian government go down this road that that of some right winger with a complete neo-liberal agenda.

As far as protecting private interest, I would like to see complete nationalization of the country's natural resources also, however there are problems with completely nationalizing oil and gas resources, its not something that can be done overnight, just ask Iran. However he has pledged to make these foreign companies pay their fair share.

I'm not sure why Hugo Chavez enjoys wide spread support on this board, but Morales gets criticized.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Chavez gets criticized too.

I don't know any communist that lends uncritical support to Chavez.

[Guerrilla22]

Maybe not communist, but there seems to be a Chavez fan club on this board.

[American_Trotskyist]

Evo Morales is not a socialist and MAS is nothing more than a radical liberal party. Don't foget the Morales was the one who called out against the masses in the streets and the Popular Councils (Democractic Centrism is its infancy). Bolivia isn't like Venezuela because Venezuela never had an open social revolution in its streets. Bolivia had this and it was a radical step beyond what Chavez has done and it was a geniune class movement for the overthrow of Capitalism and the State in Bolivia.

Evo Morales wore a Che Guevara T-Shirt and told them not do do anything and wait to elect him, Evo Morales is the Alexander Kerensky of Bolivia, nothing more. He may use socialist rhetoric but he is no more socialist and Lula in Brazil.

The only benifit I can see from his electoral victory is that cocaine will be cheaper for the addicts.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Comrade,

I agree with your post; but who is "Kerninsky"?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

But Morales and running mate Alvaro Garcia Linera are the first to temper both the over-ambitious hopes of the left as well as the exaggerated fears on the right. "We should admit that Bolivia will still be capitalist in the next 50 to 100 years," Linera said in recent interviews.


But this moderate talk is exactly what many of the social movements in Bolivia fear. Many of the indigenous, campesino, miner, and other sectors who have created the public debate and environment for a possible MAS victory feel like Morales is not going far enough to represent their interests.


Abraham Delgado, a water activist from the city of El Alto echoes this doubt. "They talk about nationalization, but in reality it's not nationalization- 80 percent stays in the hands of the corporations... we stay in the same system, the same model."

Various social groups and leaders, including a recent politically-embarrassing public announcement by a MAS Senator, have given a MAS government varying time periods of three to six months to comply with the demands of the Bolivian people, specifically on the issues of gas and the constituent assembly. Failure to make significant progress, they promise, will bring renewed social protest from MAS' own current supporters.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cf...=52&ItemID=9353 (http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=52&ItemID=9353)

[American_Trotskyist]

Sorry, Alexander Kerensky it was a spelling error

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I though so, but I just wanted to be sure it wasn't someone I was unfamiliar with. Thanks.

[CubaSocialista]

American Conservatives say he will "lead the nation into disastrous Socialism."

Which means, he's worthy of being supported. The Americans are a bunch of Dr. Strangeloves anyway.


Of course, the Americans love to tell other naitons how to be run and suppress everything for its markets.

Well, the Americans will be running from Latin America soon enough.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

American conservatives say alot of shit. They also oppose Mohammad Khatami in Iran; should we support him?

The MAS itself says it's not socialist nor will it lead the country to socialism.


"We should admit that Bolivia will still be capitalist in the next 50 to 100 years" - Alvaro Garcia Linera, newly elected vice-president


On the question of socialism, however, he [Alvaro Garcia Linera -- Vice-presidental candidate running w/ Morales] has worked hard to convince the electorate that he will never mention this word again (see Miguel Lora Fuentes, "Alvaro García Linera: 'El capitalismo andino es un paso intermedio para imaginar el socialismo'," Bolpress, October 7, 2005).

It should not be a surprise that García Linera winces at the mere mention of socialism, since the MAS never has been a socialist party, despite the name.


Coming from Evo, however, it is likely that "nationalization" does not mean expropriation of the transnational gas companies. It is often seen to only mean reformulating the constitution so that Bolivia "owns" the gas both above and underground (currently the Bolivian state has property rights over the latter). The most coherent platform on offer, the "Ten Point Plan," has been described by one commentator as a collaborative program with the big business, landowners, and transnationals in the name of "reinventing democracy" and "Andean capitalism" (LOR-CI, "La burguesía teme a las expectativas que un gobierno del MAS podría despertar en las masas." Rebelión, October 1, 2005).


Although a fierce critic of free-market policies that he blames for Bolivia's widespread poverty, Morales moderated his tone as election day approached — assuring the business community that he would protect property rights and fight drug trafficking.