values and behaviour

[James]

Ok, so obviously for many people religion acts as the source for morals and values, which impact on their behaviour.


My question is, without religion, where do people get the values/morals/"code of conduct" from?



[i was not sure where to put this. I was thinking theory, but then decided philosophy would be more apropriate. I didn't put it in religion because this is not about religion, but something more "wider": why people should act in certain ways; source for their own code of conduct etc]

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 01:27 PM
My question is, without religion, where do people get the values/morals/"code of conduct" from?
I do not need religion to tell me to be good and to help others. I get this from myself. I have compassion and empathy for others.

Religion tries to get people to be moral by telling them that their is an afterlife to look forward to if they are good. I don't need a prize at the end of my journey.

[James]

i do not need religion to tell me to be good and to help others. I get this from myself. I have compassion and empathy for others.

But what is good?
Why should you help others?




Religion tries to get people to be moral by telling them that their is an afterlife to look forward to if they are good. I don't need a prize at the end of my journey.

i take your point.
Such a religious source may be followed simply due to a selfish incentive, but it is clear that others act in accordance to what they believe to be god's wishes, because it is god's wish/request.

[Bannockburn]

Ok, so obviously for many people religion acts as the source for morals and values, which impact on their behaviour.


My question is, without religion, where do people get the values/morals/"code of conduct" from?



[i was not sure where to put this. I was thinking theory, but then decided philosophy would be more apropriate. I didn't put it in religion because this is not about religion, but something more "wider": why people should act in certain ways; source for their own code of conduct etc]

Outside of religion, in the west there is generally three different ethical systems.

The Kantian deontological ethic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundwork_of...hysic_of_Morals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundwork_of_the_Metaphysic_of_Morals)

Bentham/Mills Utilitarian ethic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism

and Aristotelean virtue ethics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_ethics

Those are your main three. Any other questions, just ask. I actually have a degree, hence a sub discipline of my philosophy degree of, “professional ethics”

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 01:58 PM

I do not need religion to tell me to be good and to help others. I get this from myself. I have compassion and empathy for others.

But what is good?
Why should you help others?
It's hard to put into words. I guess it's kind of a trait that I possess. I wish more people had it, then people could help others without worrying about god so much. "Good" is pretty much what communism is trying to promote. A classless, stateless, moneyless, opression-free society. My morals are much different from the church as well.

[Red Leader]

Basicaly doing good for the sake of good, not to get into a heaven or everlasting life. The ideas of this good is just the universaly common decency that every human has. Minus the shit society teaches us and the influences of various religions and medias, worldwide you will see the same basic values for human life. Trying to help someone in need and all that can even be seen in animals. They didnt have any religion to tell them what love and kindness is. just like we didnt. We just know it and practice it. Religion basicaly capitalizes off of this already human instinct.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Unless you are religious and believe that religion came from God itself, you can recognize that these "values" didn't magicqally appear out of thin air and that people had "values" before the founding of modern religions and that's what informed these religions of what is "right and wrong".

For me, values come from humanism; all people have relatively the same ability to be good and deserve respect. If one person is being opressed or disrespected, then I or people I care about can be too, so it is in our intrests to "do unto others..." if Jesus says so or not.

But also my values come from class too where I recognize that the intrests of me and my family and friends and neighbors are in conflixt with the intrests of the people who employ us and organize society.

[die4oil]

As usual, everyone is wrong. All morals and ethics are based on some sort of standard or end. It's up to every individual to decide their own standard or end, which is of course subjective.

[Re-visionist 05]

A little bit of nurture and nature in my opinion

I personally think that human beings in general, nasty, dirty, and pathetic little animals that somehow managed to survive this long.

But since we have developed the abuility to reason, i think we have put ourselves on the long road of becoming a more enlightened animal

Religion, in my opinion was part of this process, but at this point in time we really have no more of a need for it, since our reasoning has grown beyond the need of it. as far as to what comes next, we can only speculate on it.

[redchrisfalling]

I think you have to be optamistic about the nature of human beigns. Many of us who post on this site have found a non religous way to build morals, be it spiritual or intelectual revalations, personal trauma, taught, or any number of other medium of growth. But the question is wether or not we represent true human nature or we are an un-natural minority who just happen to develop superior morals. As for nurture vs nature, i think that this way of thinking would lead us to belivwe that humans are intrensicly good because of two unevirsal traits that all infants share, Love and non-bias. Put two babies together and let them play, they don't care if one's black one's white, or if one has a birth defect, it doseen;t matter how much money the other has. Thay will play toghether and share without question. Also any animal that spends substancial amounts of time with a another of its' kind will develop a bond with that other creature that will cause internal torment if broken, Example: puppies cring when one of there litter are taken, orphans comeing toghether like sibaligns. My thoughts on this matter are probably biased because of my optamistic nature and deep down love of man kind, but they make sense to me. Comasion, equality, love, these are all natural human traits, it's this god damn society which infuses hate and discrimination into our youth.