An “Un American America!�

[RedCeltic]

The United States has stepped into the realm of the unthinkable recently when the House recently began debating a bill of new immigration laws, including one which would make it a FELONY to be an undocumented worker. A bill in which if made law, would end forever the open traditions of immigration that has been in place since the founding of the United States.
I Must be honest, and say that when I think of my nation, the United States, there are only a few things that I can truly say are great about it’s history. One of the few things that I think make it a great place, and still make it a place that some still dream of in other places… is that it had always openly took in people regardless of where they came from. When I visit Liberty Island (which has been 4 or 5 times) I have always thought that the words from the poem, “New Colossus” by Emma Lazarus, (Now inscribed on the Statue of Liberty) “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest- tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door. “
Those are the words, and the call many have heard as they teemed on these shores (including my own grandparents.) To think that such a nation that has been known as being great, mostly for being such a cultural “melting pot” would now slam the door shut (mostly on the foot of Latin America) is to me… simply unthinkable!!

[Capitalist Imperial]

Your story is teearjerking, most emotional appeals are.

However, they do not address moder realities such as the economic impact of undocumented workers sending huge amounts of earned income back to Mexico, or the huge exposure that the border poses with respect to terrorists trying to gain illegitimate entry into the USA.

Why do you use the antiseptic term "documented workers"? Why don't we address them in the more accurate sense. They are illegal aliens, emphasis on illegal.

Legitimate Americans are tired of the border broblem, RC, and it is in fact a problem. No poem, no matter where inscribed, will legitimize its continued negative effect on the nation. It's time to do something.

[Ele'ill]

They are illegal aliens, emphasis on illegal


Legitimate Americans are tired of the border broblem


:lol:









What ever you say pilgrim.

[RedCeltic]

All the arguments you make against immigration (legal or illegal) have been made over and over again with each wave of ethnic group to come to the U.S.

Most Irish when they came over were unskilled laborers. All they ever knew was tennent farming. They were also considered to be "unfit for American Citizenship" by anti immigration groups such as the "Know Nothings" mostly due to them being Roman Catholic.

An even better example came latter in history with the Italians. They didn't speak English, were Roman Catholic, unskilled workers... and mostly came without papers.

[Atlas Swallowed]

They should throw out multi-national corporations not immigrants. Most of us in the USA ancestors immigrated here. Through out the history of the USA their have always been jackasses who were anti-immigration. Some people are so afraid of change. Oh yeah, they call themselves conservatives. They might as well call themselves cowards because it is fear and hatred that rule them.

[Bugalu Shrimp]

We should stop brown people from entering, they smell funny and wipe their bumholes with the left hand..

[DaCuBaN]

However, they do not address moder realities such as the economic impact of undocumented workers sending huge amounts of earned income back to Mexico, or the huge exposure that the border poses with respect to terrorists trying to gain illegitimate entry into the USA.

The simple fact is that deterrents (or why don't we address it in a more accurate term and call them threats) will only ever put off a percentage of people - and I'm willing to bet none of that percentage would have been willing to risk "jumping the border" in the first instance. So what's the point?

Instead of dealing with the problem - being proactive, if you like - the US government has decided to cost the taxpayer money by arresting, encarcerating and presumably eventually ejecting people from the country. Hell, with that amount of cash you could probably dig a moat around the entire country and compete with Panama for shipping traffic between the Atlantic and Pacific... :D :rolleyes:


“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest- tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door. “

I've visited Liberty Island (and the former "processing facility" come detention centre nearby) and I'm sorry to say that I merely see it as another display of blatant hypocracy that the USA now stands for in the eyes of the rest of the world. I still mourn the fact that the modern home of freedom has long since closed it's doors and voluntarily stripped itself of it's honours.

[Master Che]

Maybe if America never stoled and screwed any Latin American country you guys wouldent have such a immigration problem :rolleyes: ?

[Bugalu Shrimp]

Maybe if you had enough balls, you'd stop moaning and sort your own lives out..

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by Bugalu [email protected] 23 2005, 11:02 AM
Maybe if you had enough balls, you'd stop moaning and sort your own lives out..
Maybe if your parents were not each others brother and sister you would know what you are talking about...

[People's Coalition]

Immigrants enter this country to live a better life, to live to so called "American Dream."

The Majority of immigrants are Mexican, one of the hardest working people I've ever seen. They will work for over 12 hours just for a dollar an hour, just to earn money to support their family.

Weres Osama? How come we havn't found him yet? Congress is just trying to distract us Americans from the IMPORTANT things in the world.

[Emperor Sam]

This issue isn't about immigration, it is about ILLEGAL immigration, and America should make no apologies or be subjected to scrutiny for looking to intensify the enforcement of well-established laws in the interests of the nation.

Changing the offense from a misdemeanor to a felony will have little effect on legal immigration, it simply takes our security and economic concerns more seriously, which is simply a reflection of contemporary geopolitical conditions.

[Emperor Sam]

Originally posted by People's [email protected] 24 2005, 12:00 AM
Immigrants enter this country to live a better life, to live to so called "American Dream."

The Majority of immigrants are Mexican, one of the hardest working people I've ever seen. They will work for over 12 hours just for a dollar an hour, just to earn money to support their family.

Weres Osama? How come we havn't found him yet? Congress is just trying to distract us Americans from the IMPORTANT things in the world.

I want Osama captured, as do most Americans.

However, the capture of Osama will not end the war against terrorism. His capture would be good for morale and mabye interrogation, but the war is bigger than him now.

Illegal immigration, as a whole, is actually much more important at this point than catching the individual OBL. OBL will likely not cross the US/Mexico border. He is probably living out his lfe out giving directives from a cave.

However, it is possible and quite probable that much more anonymous terrorists will use Mexico as an entry point to America, thus creating a significant security exposure to the nation. This compromise needs to be addressed.

[bezdomni]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 18 2005, 05:56 PM
Why do you use the antiseptic term "documented workers"? Why don't we address them in the more accurate sense. They are illegal aliens, emphasis on illegal.



This is illegal.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2610/663/1600/2004-torture-in-iraq.jpg


This is an alien.
http://nawtythings.com/halloween/alien/a2.jpg


The fusion of the two doesn't look like any "illegal immigrant" that I have ever seen.

I refuse to believe any human being is illegal just by their geographic position.

[Emperor Sam]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2005, 12:35 AM
I refuse to believe any human being is illegal just by their geographic position.


So you wouldn't mind if I sit down in your house, fix a ham sandwich, and hang out for a few months?

Illegal immigrants create a negative security and economic impact.


This is an alien.

Actually, that is a human concept of what an alien may look like, and an unambitious one at that.

[bezdomni]

So you wouldn't mind if I sit down in your house, fix a ham sandwich, and hang out for a few months?

Illegal immigrants create a negative security and economic impact.

Good luck finding ham. I'm vegetarian.

What negative economic impact does illegal immigration have? And if I recall...the pilots from the 9/11 attacks were here on visas.

EDIT: The alien thing was mostly a joke...I know it is an unambitious human concept. Do you think I'm a moron?

[Ownthink]

So you wouldn't mind if I sit down in your house, fix a ham sandwich, and hang out for a few months?
Worst comparison ever.

[Emperor Sam]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2005, 02:43 AM

So you wouldn't mind if I sit down in your house, fix a ham sandwich, and hang out for a few months?
Worst comparison ever.
Really? Explain.

Where does geographical freedom stop and property infringement start?

Why is his claim legit and my analogy poor?

[DaCuBaN]

Where does geographical freedom stop and property infringement start?

Are you seriously asking this question on a board where the majority of members are opposed to the very notion of property ownership in the sense you infer? This is a non sequitur anyway: Immigration and property are two unconnected issues, as it's entirely possible to rent accomodation without a work permit. Just because someone enters the country without the necessary documentation to work does not mean their intentions are to spend the day sitting in your pool... or are you just frightened because the economic model under which we slave renders you superfluous in the face of such emmigration from nations with weaker currencies?


Why is his claim legit and my analogy poor?

Noone had actually commented on his claim - the only comment was at the blatant absurdity of your analogy.

[Emperor Sam]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2005, 09:10 PM



Are you seriously asking this question on a board where the majority of members are opposed to the very notion of property ownership in the sense you infer?

No, my comment was obviously faceteous, but you got my point.

By the way, I imply, you infer.


This is a non sequitur anyway: Immigration and property are two unconnected issues, as it's entirely possible to rent accomodation without a work permit.

However, immigration and territory are connected issues.


I refuse to believe any human being is illegal just by their geographic position.

This quote is broad and unrealistic.


Just because someone enters the country without the necessary documentation to work does not mean their intentions are to spend the day sitting in your pool...

Fallacy: False Choice. I never said that they would "sit in my pool". Quite honestly, they can do wahtever they wish within US law. I simply want them to take the necessary legal steps to gain legitimate entry into the country.


or are you just frightened because the economic model under which we slave renders you superfluous in the face of such emmigration from nations with weaker currencies?

Yeah, because that's been such a problem before... Legal immigrant labor actually helps the economy by driving down costs of production due to the wages that they will accept. I am not really competing with them in the labor market, so their presence does not render me superfluous.

Again, I hhave no problams with immigrants, they are a large part of what built this nation.

My problem is with illegal immigration an America's current weak enforcement policy on the border. It needs to be strrengthened.

[DaCuBaN]

By the way, I imply, you infer.

You're right, my apologies for the error.


immigration and territory are connected issues.

Not in the context I inferred from your implication. :P


Quite honestly, they can do [whatever] they wish within US law. I simply want them to take the necessary legal steps to gain legitimate entry into the country.

As I suggested before, invest the money in a moat if you're worried about people getting into Fortress US. The hoop jumping necessary for even skilled workers who've married a US national to get a green card (my sister, a UK citizen and fully qualified OT, has been waiting 9 years for her green card) already render legal emmigration to the US practically impossible - and that's aside from the fact that they charge you for it.

My point remains unchallenged - threats of encarceration and ejection will only serve as a deterrant for a minority. When someone sets out to do something illegal, they intend to get away with it and as such the "problem" will remain.


I [have] no [problems] with immigrants, they are a large part of what built this nation.

They are what built the US, unfortunately. All those religious nutters and so on who were ejected from Europe... ;)