Iranian president calls holocaust a 'myth'

[Xvall]

(Full Story (http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,12858,1667634,00.html))

Iran's ultra-Islamist president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, triggered a fresh wave of international outrage yesterday by dismissing the Holocaust as a myth and calling for Jews to be moved to Canada and Alaska.

In a speech broadcast live on Iranian television and calculated to generate maximum publicity, Mr Ahmadinejad described the Nazi genocide of 6 million Jews in the second world war as a fabrication concocted to justify Israel's existence.

"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets," he told an audience in the south-eastern city of Zahidan. "If someone were to deny the existence of God ... or prophets and religion, they would not bother him. However, if someone were to deny the myth of the Jews' massacre, all the Zionist mouthpieces and the governments subservient to the Zionists scream against the person as much as they can."

[danny android]

The anti-semitism in Iran is really frightining. I mean I by no means am a zionist but, this is just out right insane. The Iranian president almost sounds like an amerikan neo-nazi.

[Guerrilla22]

They like to get attention any way they can.

[*PRC*Kensei]

loool,

this dude is way behind of his time.... blaming the judes... srry but this bullshit is to out-dated to even give attention to what the fool says, just ignore him ;)

[Wanted Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 05:44 AM
They like to get attention any way they can.
Maybe he should get a MySpace.

[Tekun]

Not justifying it
But, this is what 57 yrs of tension and violence will breed in some ppl

Though, he does sound quite ignorant in the way he promotes hate and racism

[sovietsniper]

Originally posted by *PRC*[email protected] 15 2005, 08:40 AM
loool,

this dude is way behind of his time.... blaming the judes... srry but this bullshit is to out-dated to even give attention to what the fool says, just ignore him ;)
The problem is he cant be. Iran is emerging as a major power in the region and may or may not have nukes.

[Wiesty]

this is the one thing that really ticks me off, is when people try to deny history.

[ComradeOm]

Ahmadinejad has proven to be a top class idiot. He's in the process of undoing all the work the Iranian diplomats have achieved in securing the right to own nuclear weapons.

[Seeker]

I'd like to hear the rest of the speech.

Jews were not the only ones killed by Nazis. This may have been the context of the quote?

[Amusing Scrotum]

I'd like to hear the rest of the speech.

Jews were not the only ones killed by Nazis. This may have been the context of the quote?


Originally posted by Lunatic President of Iran
They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets

(Emphasis added.)

He is basically saying that the Holocaust was a "myth" that was "invented" by the "evil" Jews. The only context that this statement can be put in, is the context of an anti-Semitic arsehole.

[Guerrilla22]

Iran used to have a moderate President, that was before the Bush administration started acting all aggressive towards Iran. When the Iranian people felt threatned they elected a hardliner.

[symtoms_of_humanity]

I don't want to sound like an ass, but if Iran gets nukes, I personally think under the leadership of this man they will try and nuke israle(sp)

and I don't quite understand how one can be opposed to a jewish homeland(I know they moved in on the land) but then still support jews, I mean they should have some sort of homeland, then being dispersed is what cause many of thier problems

[bolshevik butcher]

I can't see them nuking Israel, as they also have nuclear weapons. It would lead to Irans inevitable destructions.

As for this, this is just blind racism and stupidity. To deny hte holocaust happens effectivley denies 6million deaths, is he saying these people didnt die?

[WUOrevolt]

Fuck Him!!!

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 09:35 PM
Iran used to have a moderate President, that was before the Bush administration started acting all aggressive towards Iran. When the Iranian people felt threatned they elected a hardliner.
I think they only had a choice between a conservative and an ultra conservative. Leading Mullahs in the country pick the political candidates, not the people themselves. But, It doesn't seem too far off the US.

[polemi-super-cised]

... this is the one thing that really ticks me off, is when people try to deny history.


Hmmm, yeah...

Well, not wanting to rock the boat too much ( :P ), but there is some vague sort of substance to the claims of "holocaust denial"... I'm not particularly aware of the views of this ultra-reactionary tosser, but attacking the concept of the holocaust isn't "new".

I mean, it's blatantly obvious that Jews suffered enormously at the hands of the Nazis in the 1930s and 1940s. And whether or not you want to argue over the figures (4.5 - 8 million, or whatever: one death was too many), I think the point that does stand up to scrutiny is that the concept, visualisation and representation of the holocaust in the west served the political ends of a certain class, or ethnic group - at the expense of other sections of society, with little regard to their thoughts on the matter.

Just look at the Middle East at the moment: it's a mess! 'Israel', as a distinct entity, is largely responsible - and 'Israel' was created in the aftermath of this "holocaust". I'm not supporting the standpoint; but it isn't so absurd that it should be thrown out without question.

That's all.

[Correa]

Come on. You fools really think that he believes the Holocaust did not occur? America's dumbest imbaciles know that. He is saying that to piss his enemies off. Don't be so naive. His request of Europe giving up land for "Israel" was reasonable and funny though. He is no role model, but the west is just conditioning public opinion through the capitalist media incase an invasion is "necessary".

[Seeker]

I think the point that does stand up to scrutiny is that the concept, visualisation and representation of the holocaust in the west served the political ends of a certain class, or ethnic group - at the expense of other sections of society


You said it better, but that is kinda what I was getting at.

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 09:39 PM
I don't want to sound like an ass, but if Iran gets nukes, I personally think under the leadership of this man they will try and nuke israle(sp)

and I don't quite understand how one can be opposed to a jewish homeland(I know they moved in on the land) but then still support jews, I mean they should have some sort of homeland, then being dispersed is what cause many of thier problems
Why would either side set off a nuclear weapon so close to its own country?

[Amusing Scrotum]

Come on. You fools really think that he believes the Holocaust did not occur?

Well I don't know what he believes, I am not a mind reader.

What is pretty clear however, is that nearly all "holocaust deniers" are anti-Semites, probably all "holocaust deniers" are anti-Semites.


He is saying that to piss his enemies off.

So?

He is still saying a repugnant thing.


but the west is just conditioning public opinion through the capitalist media incase an invasion is "necessary".

An invasion of Iran is very unlikely. The country presents too many potential problems.

Whatever the intentions of the "Capitalist media" was and is, taking direct quotes from him. Means that we are able to draw our own conclusions. In this case our conclusion should be that the Iranian President is a repugnant anti-Semite.

[Xvall]

He is saying that to piss his enemies off.

That's no good reason. I can say "black people should go around and murder white children" just to piss Nazis off, it's still a pretty unacceptable thing to say.

[Correa]

That's no good reason. I can say "black people should go around and murder white children" just to piss Nazis off, it's still a pretty unacceptable thing to say

How does me saying that "He is saying that to piss off his enemies" translate into it being a good reason? :huh:


Well I don't know what he believes, I am not a mind reader.

I believe that you can't read minds, but if I told you the world is really flat and all these "globe" theories are garbage. Would you then say that I'm nuts? Or would you say that I was lying? I think he is lying.


What is pretty clear however, is that nearly all "holocaust deniers" are anti-Semites, probably all "holocaust deniers" are anti-Semites.

Fully agree.


An invasion of Iran is very unlikely. The country presents too many potential problems.

Fully agree.


Whatever the intentions of the "Capitalist media" was and is, taking direct quotes from him. Means that we are able to draw our own conclusions. In this case our conclusion should be that the Iranian President is a repugnant anti-Semite.

While I agree with you conclusion quotes require critical thinking. You can't just interpret them literally.

[Guerrilla22]

Fundamentalism flourished in Iran due to the oppressive rule of Shah Mohammed Reza Pahalvi.

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 09:39 PM
I don't want to sound like an ass, but if Iran gets nukes, I personally think under the leadership of this man they will try and nuke israle(sp)

and I don't quite understand how one can be opposed to a jewish homeland(I know they moved in on the land) but then still support jews, I mean they should have some sort of homeland, then being dispersed is what cause many of thier problems
now listen to me,

1)isreal is a neigbor country... so radiation could reach them
2) judes & arabs are spread among the whole country, palestinians are living in strokes of land. if u trow a nuke on it, u kill both + u destroy al the muslim artifacts & moskees in there.

iran wont nuke isreal, this is just a foolisch idea. they dont even have nukes, it's a mythe.

this iran leader should just stfu & get a hart attack. end o story.

[kingbee]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 09:35 PM
Iran used to have a moderate President, that was before the Bush administration started acting all aggressive towards Iran. When the Iranian people felt threatned they elected a hardliner.
to be honest, america has always been agressive. i don't think we can blame america for iran's current president!

but anyways, there was an article in the guardian saying that people can no longer claim that he is anti zionist or anti israeli. he is obviously anti semitic.

that put me in my place, and i fully agree.

there is no way that iran will be allowed nuclear weapons now, and even though i dont think they would use them against israel, you cannot use words like that and be allowed to have nukes.

[Atlas Swallowed]

The holocaust was a disquesting crime but it has been used to much as an excuse for Israels aggression. How many Vietnamese were killed by the United States? It is just as tragic as the holocaust. When they say "never again" they should say never again for the Jewish people. So many people in different parts of the world have been slaughtered since the holocaust. All Israel has seemed to learn from the holocaust is to be like Nazis.

Anti-semitism is wrong like any other form of racism. When leaders of Israel make racist statements against Arabs no one makes a big deal about it. If a racist state as Israel has nuclear weapons, Iran should have them for balance.

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by Atlas [email protected] 16 2005, 11:19 AM
The holocaust was a disquesting crime but it has been used to much as an excuse for Israels aggression. How many Vietnamese were killed by the United States? It is just as tragic as the holocaust. When they say "never again" they should say never again for the Jewish people. So many people in different parts of the world have been slaughtered since the holocaust. All Israel has seemed to learn from the holocaust is to be like Nazis.
I disagree. The holocaust was murder on an industrial scale. The sheer inhumanity of packing people into gas chambers and then taking pride as the columns of numbers increased is frankly beyond me. The world has never seen its like either before or after.

As for Iran getting nukes, I've always been against a theocracy having that ability. This idiot has cemented my opinion on the matter though.

[Intifada]

Originally posted by Atlas [email protected] 16 2005, 11:19 AM
When leaders of Israel make racist statements against Arabs no one makes a big deal about it.
Indeed.

It is no wonder that such double standards drive Muslims towards the extremist shit espoused by idiots like Ahmedenijad.

[kingbee]

ok- when has any israeli leader done this?

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 11:49 AM

I disagree. The holocaust was murder on an industrial scale.

As for Iran getting nukes, I've always been against a theocracy having that ability. This idiot has cemented my opinion on the matter though.
The Vietnam war was not on an industrial scale? A war for the sake of making the industrial military complex money.

Israel is a theocracy. Israel has nuclear weapons. If you are pro Israeli government, then you sir are an idiot.

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 12:56 PM
ok- when has any israeli leader done this?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/palestinians.html

Here are some.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by Correa
While I agree with you conclusion quotes require critical thinking. You can't just interpret them literally.

When someone makes such a bold statement, it is unlikely that they did it to "rile someone up." People who say these types of things are usually proud that they hold these views.

Indeed denying the holocaust is such a vile thing, that the only people that have the "bottle" to say these types of things are people who actually deny the holocaust.

No reasonable person would say it as a joke. The only people who would say something like this, are anti-Semites.

[dso79]

EU Threatens Sanctions Over Holocaust Flap (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051216/ap_on_re_as/iran_holocaust_4;_ylt=AkMZLeT0_1vgqiLwBCOiTJlSw60A ;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)

The Iranian Interior Minister says Ahmadinejad’s remarks have been misunderstood, which sounds plausible; western media and politicians always have a tendency to misinterpret the words of people they don’t like. As far as I can tell Ahmadinejad did not explicitly deny the Holocaust, though he didn‘t acknowledge it either.


You fools really think that he believes the Holocaust did not occur? America's dumbest imbaciles know that.

Most Iranians probably know very little about the Second World War; it’s not really a part of that nation’s history. Add to that the fact that right-wing zionists have often used the Holocaust to justify Israel’s war crimes and it’s not hard to see why some Iranians may genuinely believe that the Holocaust is a lie.


He is saying that to piss his enemies off.

It’s more likely that he’s saying such things in order to increase his popularity in Iran and in the Arab world.

[Samuel]

Just to put it on the table, I am prepared to pay my life savings (20,000 US) to the person who assisanates/maims/cripples/"brings to justice" Ahmadinejad.

[Andy Bowden]

Give Chuck Norris a call :lol:

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by Atlas Swallowed+Dec 16 2005, 05:24 PM--> (Atlas Swallowed @ Dec 16 2005, 05:24 PM)
[email protected] 16 2005, 12:56 PM
ok- when has any israeli leader done this?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/palestinians.html

Here are some. [/b]
It seems like the just add in words like 'Palestinian' 'Arab' and 'Jew'. I don't think that's a very credible source.

[Intifada]

Chingis Khan, stop trying to deny the facts about racist Zionists.

All the quotes have sources, and I have read them many times before.

[Phalanx]

Many of those quotes are as bad as Ahmadinjad's, but it looks like they just added words to some of the quotes.

[danny android]

Originally posted by *PRC*Kensei+Dec 16 2005, 09:49 AM--> (*PRC*Kensei @ Dec 16 2005, 09:49 AM)
[email protected] 15 2005, 09:39 PM
I don't want to sound like an ass, but if Iran gets nukes, I personally think under the leadership of this man they will try and nuke israle(sp)

and I don't quite understand how one can be opposed to a jewish homeland(I know they moved in on the land) but then still support jews, I mean they should have some sort of homeland, then being dispersed is what cause many of thier problems
now listen to me,

1)isreal is a neigbor country... so radiation could reach them
2) judes & arabs are spread among the whole country, palestinians are living in strokes of land. if u trow a nuke on it, u kill both + u destroy al the muslim artifacts & moskees in there.

iran wont nuke isreal, this is just a foolisch idea. they dont even have nukes, it's a mythe.

this iran leader should just stfu & get a hart attack. end o story. [/b]
Umm I'm fairly certain that there are a few countries between Iran and Israel (looking at my map... oh yeah there's two.) Also I believe that claiming that Iran does not have nuclear weapons, that it's "a myth" is rediculous. It may be true that they do not have nuclear weapons now, the current president has said before that they seek to get these weapons and that it is his goal to see the distruction of Isreal and the US. Weather or not he has nuclear weapons he is a scary dude.

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by Chinghis [email protected] 16 2005, 10:19 PM
Many of those quotes are as bad as Ahmadinjad's, but it looks like they just added words to some of the quotes.
Pathetic.

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by kingbee+Dec 16 2005, 10:09 AM--> (kingbee @ Dec 16 2005, 10:09 AM)
[email protected] 15 2005, 09:35 PM
Iran used to have a moderate President, that was before the Bush administration started acting all aggressive towards Iran. When the Iranian people felt threatned they elected a hardliner.
to be honest, america has always been agressive. i don't think we can blame america for iran's current president!

but anyways, there was an article in the guardian saying that people can no longer claim that he is anti zionist or anti israeli. he is obviously anti semitic.

that put me in my place, and i fully agree.

there is no way that iran will be allowed nuclear weapons now, and even though i dont think they would use them against israel, you cannot use words like that and be allowed to have nukes. [/b]
Yes, however during the Clinton administration the US took a far less aggressive attitude towards Iran. Relations between the two countries even got a little better. Then the Bush administration came in and called them an "axis of evil" and invaded two countries that boarder Iran.

[Correa]

Originally posted by Armchair Socialism+Dec 16 2005, 10:39 AM--> (Armchair Socialism @ Dec 16 2005, 10:39 AM)
Correa
While I agree with you conclusion quotes require critical thinking. You can't just interpret them literally.

When someone makes such a bold statement, it is unlikely that they did it to "rile someone up." People who say these types of things are usually proud that they hold these views.

Indeed denying the holocaust is such a vile thing, that the only people that have the "bottle" to say these types of things are people who actually deny the holocaust.

No reasonable person would say it as a joke. The only people who would say something like this, are anti-Semites. [/b]
I pretty much agree with you, but my gut feeling is that he really knows it happened and he is saying it perhaps for the reasons you indicated. Honestly, even though he denies it happened and all. Do you really think he thinks it did not take place? He can't be that uneducated, don't you think? It is such a big part of history that I honestly think that anything short of a group of indigenous people who have never been exposed to books, radio, or tv would actually be unaware of it or worse deny it.

[Intifada]

Originally posted by Chinghis [email protected] 16 2005, 10:19 PM
Many of those quotes are as bad as Ahmadinjad's, but it looks like they just added words to some of the quotes.
Many are worse than Ahmadenijad's.

As far as I am aware, they are all true quotes.

[Atlas Swallowed]

They are. Sadly some people can not see Zionists for what they are, plain and simple racists. They should call themselves Jewish supremisists. Anyone who believes thier race is supieor and have more of right to life than other races is a scumbag, regardless of what race they may be. Unfortunatly the Zionists use the holocaust as an excuse for thier attrocities instead of using it as inspiration to fight for human rights of all humans regardless of race.

People getting burned alive by napalm or marched into the gas chambers are both foul evils. In both cases it is murder. "Never Again" should apply to the whole human race and not only Jews. It should apply to all unjust racial murder. Thier has been plenty examples of genocide in the world since the holocaust. Why doesn't Israel or the Zionist seem to care? Could it be they are racists and only care about other Jews?

[kingbee]

Originally posted by Atlas Swallowed+Dec 16 2005, 05:24 PM--> (Atlas Swallowed @ Dec 16 2005, 05:24 PM)
[email protected] 16 2005, 12:56 PM
ok- when has any israeli leader done this?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/palestinians.html

Here are some. [/b]
well i think they are credible sources. cheers for that.

[Noah]

Sadly some people can not see Zionists for what they are, plain and simple racists.

I totally agree with you there, when I demo for Palestine's solidarity in Manchester Town Center, it happens all the time...

The Zionists come and put an Isreali flag next to a British flag (how ironic) and shout very racist comments like 'Don't support Arabs, Don't support terrorism'. So they are basically saying all Arabs are terrorist, if anything...Isreal are the ones who are doing the ethnic cleansing and attacking civilians on a much larger scale than any Palestinian organisation/militantcy.

In Manchester you get these people going 'Oh, Isreal is the only democratic state around the Arab countries so the land should not be taken away..' (when in fact it is simply being returned, not taken away) all these stupid comments, really worry me about how 'politically-stupid' some people can be.

Zionism makes me sick.

[fpeppett]

This guy has effectively ruined Iran, I mean this bullshit, racism and aggressive threats isnt going to get his country anyway, just unprecedented tension with Israel, the US etc.

Hes just a fuckin asshole who has undone all the work of the Iranians, they have become powerful and so be it, hes going to ruin them..

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by danny android+Dec 17 2005, 12:20 AM--> (danny android @ Dec 17 2005, 12:20 AM)
Originally posted by *PRC*[email protected] 16 2005, 09:49 AM

[email protected] 15 2005, 09:39 PM
I don't want to sound like an ass, but if Iran gets nukes, I personally think under the leadership of this man they will try and nuke israle(sp)

and I don't quite understand how one can be opposed to a jewish homeland(I know they moved in on the land) but then still support jews, I mean they should have some sort of homeland, then being dispersed is what cause many of thier problems
now listen to me,

1)isreal is a neigbor country... so radiation could reach them
2) judes & arabs are spread among the whole country, palestinians are living in strokes of land. if u trow a nuke on it, u kill both + u destroy al the muslim artifacts & moskees in there.

iran wont nuke isreal, this is just a foolisch idea. they dont even have nukes, it's a mythe.

this iran leader should just stfu & get a hart attack. end o story.
Umm I'm fairly certain that there are a few countries between Iran and Israel (looking at my map... oh yeah there's two.) Also I believe that claiming that Iran does not have nuclear weapons, that it's "a myth" is rediculous. It may be true that they do not have nuclear weapons now, the current president has said before that they seek to get these weapons and that it is his goal to see the distruction of Isreal and the US. Weather or not he has nuclear weapons he is a scary dude. [/b]
1) the countrys in between are muslim. and the leader-dude is talking about holy war moslims vs judes..
2) if they dont have nuclear weapons atm they dont have them at the moment. So saying they have nukes is UNJUST. i dont think ive said anything untrue, this is just a logical conlusion that saying "iran has nukes" is NOT true untill it's proven.
3) he cant destroy ireal with a nuke without destroying palestian areas, take a look at your map again, it's impossible.

I'm just trying to stop u people from panic,
because: panic leads to fear, fear leads to "USA protect us and nuke those muslims before they GET a nuclear weapon" .

:angry:

[Amusing Scrotum]

He can't be that uneducated, don't you think?

The view that holocaust deniers must be uneducated fools, is a very simplistic view.

There is a reasonably large field of pseudo academic work which denies the holocaust. They compile large studies which show the holocaust is a "Jewish lie."

It is very similar to the way race science and the race scientists operate. They mish-mash a load of sources (most completely fake) and scientific experiments that are completely wrong.

This then leads to the desired result, an "academic" study which shows the holocaust is a lie.

It is therefore foolish to suggest people who buy into holocaust denial are stupid. In most cases I'd suspect that their are relatively well read and most definitely have read the pseudo-studies that "expose" the holocaust as a "lie."

Like race science, studies that deny the holocaust are completely misleading, but because they come from a supposed "voice of authority." People take them at "face value" and believe the lies that are written.


It is such a big part of history that I honestly think that anything short of a group of indigenous people who have never been exposed to books, radio, or tv would actually be unaware of it or worse deny it.

Go over to stormfront, there are many people there who deny it and no doubt some of them are reasonably intelligent. They also "buy into" race science, for more or less the same reason, it "fits" into their ideological world view.

They think all black people are bastards and race science claims to prove this. Of course it doesn't and has been debunked a number of times. However people will accept pseudo sciences if they help "prove" their case.

[metalero]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 06:49 AM
I disagree. The holocaust was murder on an industrial scale. The sheer inhumanity of packing people into gas chambers and then taking pride as the columns of numbers increased is frankly beyond me. The world has never seen its like either before or after.


The holocoust is perhaps the most documented and studied genocide, but certainly there has been bigger ethnic and political cleanings. The extermination of the native population of the whole american continent by spaniards, portuguese, and europeans settlers; just add the number of disappeared and murdered activists by the Somoza, Pinochet, Romero, Batista regimes, the civilian dictatorships in Colombia, military regimes in central america and argentina, etc, it gets really high.

Denying the holocoust sounds really ignorant, but this is a move expected from the rhetoric of a populist demagogue. As it was also expected the reaction of the western media.


"If you say it is true that you massacred and burned 6 million Jews during the second world war, if you committed this massacre, why should the Palestinians pay the price? ... Give a part of your own land in Europe, the US, Canada or Alaska to them so that the Jews can establish their country."

I have seen more racist comments against latinos and african-americans from political figures in US. I have seen more racist actions and crimes committed by the zionists against the palestinians. For them and the media that's merely security operations or a mere abuse of power, ignoring the sheer inhumanity of the crimes against humanity and the suffering of the victims.

[Correa]

Yeah, but these people make up those lies to suit their own purpose. Granted they are smart, but they really know deep inside that they are preaching bullshit to further their "cause".

[Guerrilla22]

Were those his exact words or were they taken out of context by the media?