Religion, basis of law?

[Noah]

Hey guys,

In RE we were discussing how religion affects society.

My teacher said, if there was no religion we wouldn't have the laws we have today that make us safe and keep us safe.

Also she said without the major world religions we would not know what was right and wrong.

She said, "If religion didn't tell us killing people was wrong then how would humans know killing is wrong?" and she said the same thing about rape.

I was opposed to this and said "What about Eskimos (inuits) they don't follow a major world religion and yet they don't kill each other, they help each other more than we do in our society"

What are your opinions on this do you think religious teachings are the basis of law?

If not, then how do humans know that it is wrong to; murder, rape and steal so on...

[ComradeOm]

I'd much rather see people decide what was "right and wrong".

You can ask your teacher just what religion was telling those who took part in the Inquisition, Crusades or any of the other countless atrocities committed in the name of God.

[Guerrilla22]

Depending on what country you're from this may be true. However in the US our laws are based upon Greek and Roman law that was in existence hundreds of years before christianity.

[James]

it certainly has an impact on thought and knowledge (foucault writes to a degree about this stuff, if i remember correctly).
For example, homosexuality: probably still seen as "wrong" by society, or at least was, because the bible said it was.

But cultures get their values from other sources too. for example shared cultural experiance.

[redstar2000]

Noah, your "RE teacher" is a drooling idiot...perhaps a necessary qualification for such a job.

The "basis of law" in class society is protection of property.

Rape, for example, was perceived throughout most of recorded history as a "crime" against another man's property.

The reason that all viable societies have "laws" that prohibit murder and impose punishments on those who get caught at it is because a human society that permits murder cannot function.

A "society" that did not prohibit murder would be one in which nearly all human activity would be necessarily devoted to self-protection...no productive labor would be possible. Everyone who wasn't murdered would starve!

Thus the "gods" of every society command: Thou shalt not kill!

This injunction is limited to the members of one's own society.

Killing people in other societies is "ok" with all the "gods"...and indeed, both the Bible and the Qu'ran actually instruct the believer that killing people in other societies is "commanded by God/Allah".

I strongly urge you to withdraw from that RE course if you can -- it is a total waste of your time.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/223.gif

[polemi-super-cised]

What are your opinions on this: do you think religious teachings are the basis of law? ... If not, then how do humans know that it is wrong to; murder, rape and steal so on.


Organised religion has given to the world one way of organising society, through laws and moral codes etc. There are others! Of course, religious leaders (and hacks) will attempt to convince you that failing to uphold their system of beliefs will result in chaos and Anarchy throughout the world... So you'd better do what they say!

This is all nonsense. :)

In the "West", much of our law is inherited from the Judeo-Christian teachings of old. These serve a practical purpose: as 'redstar2000' pointed out, prohibiting murder is a good idea. (Not that we need religion to accomplish this...) However, as 'James' said, these laws are also reactionary in many cases - religious proclamations against homosexuality being the obvious example.

Religious law is designed to uphold the interests of the clergy, and to maintain their privileged position (as the dispensers of spiritual truth) in society. Also, to further it's own interests, organised religion often forges an "unholy" alliance with the ruling (economic) class: thus, laws descended from the ramblings of milennia-old madmen have a profound impact on today's society.

Similar claims have been made concerning morality - how it all derives from God (Gods), or whatever. But these claims serve only the interests of reactionary classes. The clergy, charged with interpreting and preaching the "word of God", obviously stand to gain from this; and the ruling class they lend their support to receive legitimation from the "devine powers" - so they continue to support the old lies, which have plagued humanity for centuries.



I'd much rather see people decide what was "right and wrong".


Morals, and laws, can be created by people, to serve the interests of themselves. This has been happening since the dawn of time! But in a future Communist society, we don't need to say that "God" declares this valid - and there are no covert "power games" being played by one class over another. Morality and law reflect the wishes of the proletariat, and the direction in which it wants to move. These can and will change, based on material conditions, but the authority to do this rests with people - NOT interpreters of scripture!

Honestly, would you or I suddenly have the urge to write into "law" the legitimation of murder and/or rape? No way! We don't need religion to tell us that such "crimes" are, in fact, wrong. We can work it out for ourselves. :)