whats so wrong with the pettie-bougeise(sp)

[symtoms_of_humanity]

My moms friend, he is a fly fishing guide, does all the work himsef, ties the flies, buys what he needs, gets up at about 4, and walks throught some of the toughest stuff ever(he took me one day and it kicked my ass), what would be wrong with that as a job in a communistic society

[PRskin]

I think the problem would be that he's not exactly helping the community with something useful. Personally I think it'd be fine as a hobby, but not as a job that is supposed to contribute something to the society. It's not a question of how hard the job is, just a case of is it really helping.

[JKP]

A. He owns his own means of production.

B. He makes profit.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 04:45 AM
My moms friend, he is a fly fishing guide, does all the work himsef, ties the flies, buys what he needs, gets up at about 4, and walks throught some of the toughest stuff ever(he took me one day and it kicked my ass), what would be wrong with that as a job in a communistic society
Firslty, there wouldn't be "jobs" in a communist society, so if he had one, the society would be a paradox and the fabric of reality would fade away.
and secondly, "Communistic" isn't a word

[sovietsniper]

He doesnt sound that bad and hes hardy exploting anyone is he

[STI]

There's nothing "wrong" with the petit-bourgeoisie, just like there's nothing "wrong" with the regular bourgeoisie. The "thing" with the p-b is that, for the most part they can't be counted on to side with the proletariat when the revolution starts.

Your mom's friend would be allowed to be a fly fishing guide in a communist society, he just wouldn't "own" the means of production in the same way he does now.

[ColinH]

Yeah, I don't really see anything "wrong" with what a fly-fishing guide does. They make a living doing what they like and do not exploit anyone doing it. Whether or not it is a "useful" position in society is what it is debatable.

[Spark]

I don't see why he would be a problem. No one has the right to tell him what to do as he has no right to tell anyone else what to do (which as a fly fisherman he probably wouldn't be doing much of).

[Hiero]

I can't see the point in nationalising the small private fishing guides. It is not like their "means of production" are exploiting anyone. He is not the boss of the people he takes out fishing, they are his customers. People still need time to relax and in socialist countries and in Commism, and i would say fishing would be one of them. If there is some use for his job i can't see why it would be abolished.

Oh and Additives Free there are jobs in Communism, a job is something you do and takes it's nature from the economic base.

[omegaflare]

There isn't much wrong with the PB in a capitalist society. All they are trying to do is "get ahead in life", when it gets to the point where there is heavy exploitation, then there is something very wrong. The PB, when he works alongside his workers, is a proletariat who, at the price of his sweat and blood, has (usually) saved money for years (maybe decades) to own some small means of production. They still exploit, but they are "the lesser evil".

The only thing that I have against them is that they cannot be trusted to side with the proletariat and that they still exploit the working class, but not in such as manner as the corporations do.

[STI]

Yeah, I don't really see anything "wrong" with what a fly-fishing guide does. They make a living doing what they like and do not exploit anyone doing it. Whether or not it is a "useful" position in society is what it is debatable.

If people want him to be their guide and he guides them, then his position is obviously "useful" (it produces a use-value which is used by either himself or another person).


I can't see the point in nationalising the small private fishing guides. It is not like their "means of production" are exploiting anyone. He is not the boss of the people he takes out fishing, they are his customers. People still need time to relax and in socialist countries and in Commism, and i would say fishing would be one of them. If there is some use for his job i can't see why it would be abolished.

In a communist society, there'd be no state to nationalize anything. The difference for the fly-fishing guide is that he wouldn't "own" his means of production - it would be collectively-owned. If he tried to excercise property rights over his equipment, he'd be reprimanded.


There isn't much wrong with the PB in a capitalist society. All they are trying to do is "get ahead in life", when it gets to the point where there is heavy exploitation, then there is something very wrong. The PB, when he works alongside his workers, is a proletariat who, at the price of his sweat and blood, has (usually) saved money for years (maybe decades) to own some small means of production. They still exploit, but they are "the lesser evil".

Even if he works alongside his employees, anybody who owns the means of production isn't a proletarian. The proletariat, by definition, do not own the means of production they use.