We're too weak to win, so why should we fight?

[RedSabine]

They have too much control. We lost our share. Were corrupted. When the revolution is over, the revolutionary's are killed. And the cycle starts over. We can't win. What would be the point? 90 years of oppression, that's not so bad. Maybe you get lucky and get a fat piece of the pie. We can't win, so why should we fight?

[redchrisfalling]

Do you have kids? Is there someone in your life who you love more then anything else? Do you love the human race? Do you belive in reincarnation? Are you aware of the extent of the suffering endured by the masses? Do you cry when an inocent man dies because of: the color of his skin, his religion, the amount of money in his wallet, or he exersised his right to free speach? Have you seen the overly luxerous and easy life that the bourgosie live? Dose it make you angery? Have you ever been so worn down by this life that you just want to die? Have you ever been beaten at a rally? Have you ever thought that we might win? Even if we die, won't we inspire a new generation to carry the torch? Is it possible that, that next generation might win? Isn't it better to die on your feet then live on your knees?

If you answered "yes" to to any of these questions, i think you just answered your own question.

[khalam_1232000]

thats outragoues, we can win, look at cuba they attacked with around 80 men, lost all but 12, and now they are in power, a group of 10 can take over a nation, through protracted peoples war, we must carry out attacks and we will grow

[Xvall]

Originally posted by [email protected]c 11 2005, 06:36 AM
They have too much control. We lost our share. Were corrupted. When the revolution is over, the revolutionary's are killed. And the cycle starts over. We can't win. What would be the point? 90 years of oppression, that's not so bad. Maybe you get lucky and get a fat piece of the pie. We can't win, so why should we fight?
We can try. At least if we don't win we'll have a hell of a time bringing the people we loathe down with us.

[Punk Rocker]

Khalam dude that's a great example, I love pointing out how the Cuban Revolution had only 12 men after the first battle and still kicked Batista's ass. With a vangaurd group and guerilla war we can do the same thing.

And to the hippy

"It is better to sacrifice everything than to live in slavery" -Uncle Ho

[Led Zeppelin]

"Commie_god" should be restricted for lack of knowledge, period.

[Creature]

"Commie_god" should be restricted for lack of knowledge, period.


Thats no reason to restrict someone... Of course there may be another reason, he may have lost faith.


Personaly, I would rather fight, be defeated and die for my beliefs then sit in silence and allow another to dictate to me how I should live.

[Atlas Swallowed]

It may look hopeless at times but circumstances change. Thier are millions of people dying and suffering for the greed of the few. It may take many years to change the way things are but it is worth fighting for. The way the world is run now is wrong. Change is not always a sudden thing, it can be gradual and take many years. Do what you can no matter how little and do not always look at the big picture. Change the way people close to you think, educate.

If you believe the Communists are corrupt become an Anarchist be your own man. No one can corrupt your heart but yourself. Self pity and defeatism is no good for you or anyone else. It is a choice be a man or be a sheep.

[Eoin Dubh]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 06:36 AM
They have too much control. We lost our share. Were corrupted. When the revolution is over, the revolutionary's are killed. And the cycle starts over. We can't win. What would be the point? 90 years of oppression, that's not so bad. Maybe you get lucky and get a fat piece of the pie. We can't win, so why should we fight?
Lay off the bong, man. Ganja is killing your motivation. :D

[Andy Bowden]

The working class is the most powerful force in history, when it rises there isn't a force that can stop it. The power that the Capitalist Class maintains is smoke and mirrors, mere illusion. They are reliant on us for everything.

:)

[Hegemonicretribution]

Revolution is appropriate when the material conditions are correct and class consciousness has been realised. This isn't about us being too weak, we are the fucking big side, this is the many against the few. The reason we want to change caitalism is because there are only a few that make it, most people can come to realise this. It is then that you strike.

[violencia.Proletariat]

lets just shoot ourselves now so we can go straight to heaven, life sucks :lol:

[Spark]

They have only won because you say they win. Keep fighting and you can make a difference. Give up the fight and you can go back to smoking pot for as long as they decide to not to step up the war on drugs raising their prices out of your reach.

[Devil$tator]

I can understand commie_god's sentiment at times. it seems too much at times.... we'll never win... but then again giving in is too easy. I couldn't do that, just let them walk over me. Death is better than slavery.

[RedAnarchist]

Fight them, that is all that you can do. We will not compormise with them and we will not surrender to them! You must beleive in your red heart that we can, we WILL, destroy those who dare to exploit the masses!

Until we are all dead or the world is communist, we have not yet lost!

[Luís Henrique]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 06:36 AM
They have too much control. We lost our share. Were corrupted. When the revolution is over, the revolutionary's are killed. And the cycle starts over. We can't win. What would be the point? 90 years of oppression, that's not so bad. Maybe you get lucky and get a fat piece of the pie. We can't win, so why should we fight?
We can't lose. They can't get rid of us, because we feed them. So their victories may be many, but they absolutely have to be just partial. But we can get rid of them. So we can win, we can win a decisive victory.

But, of course, we can win only if we remain "we". If we start misidentifying ourselves, then...

Luís Henrique

[OkaCrisis]

I went through a similar depression this fall when I (I know this sounds stupid) realised that there were fewer young leftists than I thought there were.

I was under the impression that "I'm in classes with 200-300 (and up to 1000!) other people, learning the same things about the world: the same things that have challenged me to become more informed about society. Most of these other students MUST share my worldview!"

When I realised that wasn't the case, that most people in school were just absorbing and regurgitating information, and not challenging themselves, thier ideas/ideologies, and not actually learning anything about their worlds, I was very upset.
It led me to question whether I was simply wrong about the world and my view of it...

It's certainly upsetting when you realise that most of the people getting an education (that so many people are deprived of) do not make the most of it or even attempt to apply what they learn in school to the real world.

I think it's because most of the people getting post-secondary educations are upper-class and don't believe that there is anything wrong with the world to begin with, and they think that the system works because it works for them. But when people from disadvantaged backgrounds get good educations, they learn that there are reasons why their lives have been what they have been, and the possibilities for solutions to those problems.

We shouldn't lose faith. I know it's hard when it seems that the world is against you. Stand by your convictions, and be strong, because we're not wrong.

If you don't believe it, who will?

[gewehr_3]

I hope after the revolution the same thing that happened in animal farm doesnt happen to us

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 06:36 AM
They have too much control. We lost our share. Were corrupted. When the revolution is over, the revolutionary's are killed. And the cycle starts over. We can't win. What would be the point? 90 years of oppression, that's not so bad. Maybe you get lucky and get a fat piece of the pie. We can't win, so why should we fight?
as long as there are people, there will be revolution...

AND i'm mainly fighting for the existance of the socialist idea. and the IDEA is far from dead.

people think stuff is over afther the fall of the soviet union... but, in my eyes it whas just an attempt, a first try. and it whas more or less good, however it gave up in the end. BUT we had our russian revolution, the people got freed of feodality.

It's about revolution, getting people social rights, not about winning or losing.
In europa there is a small chance for revolution right now... but on the other side in for example columbia we got a fair chance for revolution.

And u see: things are heating up these days... france, then the opposite, sydney (discusting)...

[Fidelbrand]

They have too much control.

And their control will cease with our increasing voices. It will take some time for the world to be more united against capitalism. But we are on our way, and we can see voices and doubts are raising.

[Nathe]

the problem is that the movement is still very small
i dont know any other communists, a couple of socialists, and a few leftists in general around where i live. but thats only that i know, there could be others that i dont know of

and people like change. i do what i can to educate more people, but if we did unite in a mass movement right now, it wouldnt get very far.

[Orthodox Marxist]

They have too much control. We lost our share. Were corrupted. When the revolution is over, the revolutionary's are killed. And the cycle starts over. We can't win. What would be the point? 90 years of oppression, that's not so bad. Maybe you get lucky and get a fat piece of the pie. We can't win, so why should we fight?

I can understand his sentiments we are slowly being overtaken but we should still fight

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 10:40 AM
the problem is that the movement is still very small
i dont know any other communists, a couple of socialists, and a few leftists in general around where i live. but thats only that i know, there could be others that i dont know of

and people like change. i do what i can to educate more people, but if we did unite in a mass movement right now, it wouldnt get very far.
arch comon, the moment is to small? in the '70-tys, we had half the world... when the soviet union still existed & china still had a controlled market... we had i think half of the world population under our wings... so dont give up hope, this movement will survive, will grow. It's just about focusing the power we have on the place where revolution can succeed. like columbia... :)

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Red Marxist [email protected] 15 2005, 12:10 AM

They have too much control. We lost our share. Were corrupted. When the revolution is over, the revolutionary's are killed. And the cycle starts over. We can't win. What would be the point? 90 years of oppression, that's not so bad. Maybe you get lucky and get a fat piece of the pie. We can't win, so why should we fight?

I can understand his sentiments we are slowly being overtaken but we should still fight
do u really think so? Don't u think even those unpolitical people are recognising the problems of capitalism? :ph34r: :blink:

[Red Heretic]

Even if our revolutions are defeated 1000 times, our vistory is still inevitable because of simple class contradictions. I'm sure that people who were dreaming of the end of feudalism and slavery thought the same thing.

The emergence or imperialism has intensified class contradictions in the third world, and set the stage for an entire second wave of world revolution. All over the world, revolutions are springing up simultaneously in places like Nepal, India, the Phillipines, and Turkey.

Through the revolutionary strategy of Protracted People's War in countries oppressed by imperialism, the proletariat is invincible! Look at the revolution in Nepal! That revolution was started with bows and arrows, and muskets! Today the People's Liberation Army is more powerful than the semi-feudal monarchy, which which recieves millions of dollars in funding and weapons from the USA, UN, India, and revisionist China.

When our comrades in oppressed countries have revolutions, this directly sparks and intensifies class contradictions in imperialist countries like the USA, and will ineviatebly lead the proletariat in imperialist countries to revolution and victory.

The international proletariat can, and will liberate the entire planet.

[Fidelbrand]

Which people's liberation army are you referring to?

[Hegemonicretribution]

Just on a further note: I personally balme what you perceive as our problem resulting from Keynes. Keynes moved away from true capitalism, and when some concessions towards the poor were made, they were encouraged to be grateful. This is the cause of the rise in reformist thought, and this won't last forever. The moves towards capitalism, and the protectionist, and self-contradictary nature of "free" market policy will begin to show.

As the concessions that were made towards the working class are revoked, and religion becomes less and less dominant in its role as a pacifier, class consciousness can again becom possible.

Capitalism learnt from Marx more than it let on,an it has to be very careful in its own transition into its true form, because revolutionary action will again become a serious risk.

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 07:12 PM
Just on a further note: I personally balme what you perceive as our problem resulting from Keynes. Keynes moved away from true capitalism, and when some concessions towards the poor were made, they were encouraged to be grateful. This is the cause of the rise in reformist thought, and this won't last forever. The moves towards capitalism, and the protectionist, and self-contradictary nature of "free" market policy will begin to show.
Reformism was alive and well long before the Keynes model became popular, which I believe was after the Depression opened everyones' eyes. Democratic socialism can be traced back to the last years of the 1800s.

[jaster]

we can always win, occupations fail, that is one thing that history has taught us, Palistine shall gain its independanse, iraq shall gain its independdance from the american run puppet goverment, mark my words, all my blood may be spilt but the thought lives on, mark my words, freedom shall rise again. THE VOICE OF PALISTINE SHALL RISE

[wet blanket]

It may well be hopeless, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't go down with out a fight.

[Tekun]

As long as there are ppl chained to economic slavery by capitalistic pigs, we must fight and attempt to create a revolution

It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees - Zapata