Iran's leader's freaking nutcase saying trash

[Korol Aferist]

Ahmadinejad casts doubt on Holocaust

TEHRAN, Iran (Reuters) -- Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has expressed doubt that the Holocaust occurred and suggested Israel be moved to Europe.

His comments, reported by Iran's official IRNA news agency from a news conference he gave on Thursday in the Saudi Arabian city of Mecca, follows his call in October for Israel to be "wiped off the map," which sparked widespread international condemnation.

"Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces and they insist on it to the extent that if anyone proves something contrary to that they condemn that person and throw them in jail," IRNA quoted Ahmadinejad as saying.

"Although we don't accept this claim, if we suppose it is true, our question for the Europeans is: is the killing of innocent Jewish people by Hitler the reason for their support to the occupiers of Jerusalem?" he said.

"If the Europeans are honest they should give some of their provinces in Europe -- like in Germany, Austria or other countries -- to the Zionists and the Zionists can establish their state in Europe. You offer part of Europe and we will support it."

Six million Jews were killed in the Nazi Holocaust. Ahmadinejad's remarks drew swift rebukes from Israel and Washington.

"This is not the first time, unfortunately, that the Iranian president has expressed the most outrageous ideas concerning Jews and Israel," said Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev.

"He is not just Israel's problem. He is a worry for the entire international community," he added.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said: "It just further underscores our concerns about the regime in Iran and it's all the more reason why it's so important that the regime not have the ability to develop nuclear weapons."

Once allies

Religious hardliners in Iran do not publicly deny the Holocaust happened, but say its scale has been exaggerated to justify the creation of Israel and continued Western support for it.

Close allies when Iran was ruled by the U.S.-backed Shah, Iran and Israel have become implacable foes since Iran's 1979 Islamic revolution.

Israel accuses Iran of giving arms and funding to militant Palestinian groups such as Islamic Jihad and of building nuclear weapons. Iran denies the charges.

Tehran calls Israel a "terrorist state" and has developed missiles that can reach it. It says it would use them if Israel, itself believed to be nuclear-armed, tried to bomb Iranian nuclear facilities.

Earlier in his remarks, the Iranian president, a former Revolutionary Guardsman who won a surprise election victory in June, said:

"The question is, where do those who rule in Palestine as occupiers come from? Where were they born? Where did their fathers live? They have no roots in Palestine but they have taken the fate of Palestine in their hands.

"Isn't the right to national self-determination one of the principles of the United Nations charter? Why do they deprive Palestinians of this right?"

Jews trace their roots in Israel back to Biblical times.

Ahmadinejad concluded his remarks by reiterating Iran's proposal that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict be resolved via a referendum of all the inhabitants of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank, as well as Palestinian refugees in neighboring countries.

"Whatever they decide will be accepted by all humanity. This is a clear democratic solution which is based on international principles," he said.

[timbaly]

"Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces and they insist on it to the extent that if anyone proves something contrary to that they condemn that person and throw them in jail," IRNA quoted Ahmadinejad as saying.

I don't think any of us are surprised at the insanity and absurdity in this statement. It's sad that people can honestly deny the events of the holocaust. I would like to know who these jailed people allegedly are.

[Gutlar]

This isn't going to seem to be 'in the spirit' of the website, but have you ever seriously researched Holocaust revisionism? It is a completely legitimate historiographic theory, and there is no reason to uncritically accept the received wisdom about the extent and nature of the Holocaust. Revisionists maintain that the significance of the Holocaust has been blown out of proportion - there have been many other Holocausts throughout history (eg: the Dresden bombing, Stalin's purges), so 'The Holocaust', doesn't merit the name; it is more correct to call it 'The Jewish Holocaust'.
Revisionists also maintain that the number of Jews killed was between half a million, and four million - even if the conventional figur of six million is correct, this is merely ten percent of the overall casualties of the war. The Allies, and the Jewish community, had motives to exaggerate the Jewish Holocaust, to draw attention away from their own atrocities, especially the use of nuclear weapons in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Jews have also used the Jewish Holocaust to gain a lot from guilty western nations.
Many Jews subscribe to revisionism, and acknowledge that the 'Holocaust-myth', is central to the sympathy received by the Jewish community. There is a fallacious taboo-construct of disputing the issues of the Jewish Holocaust, triggering immediate emotive reactions. This has to be altered. Many serious historians also subscribe to revisionism, and cast doubt on the existence of any gas-chambers, and the fact that Hitler actually ordered a 'final solution'. This is not anti-semitism, fascism, or any kind of racist theory; it is responsible revision to re-evaluate and establish historical truth.

[Publius]

Except that none of what you said is true, and has been refuted.

Gas chambers did exist, Hitler did order the 'final solution', etc.

Now, whether it's 'blown out of proportion' or not, I can't say; that's subjective.

It's fine to ask questions, but when the questions are answered, move on.

[adenoid hynkel]

Putting people in prison for claiming that the Holocaust did not happen or had less victims than 6 million is just outrageous. Researchers should have the right to research all the historical events, including the Holocaust, make their own conclusions about whether they really happened, how and why they happened. Does anybody disagree?

[Sentinel]

Originally posted by adenoid hynkel
Putting people in prison for claiming that the Holocaust did not happen or had less victims than 6 million is just outrageous.

Well, if someone claims it didn't happen while it's proven that it did, of course they must be corrected!

The camps were filmed by the allies, and numerous survivors have witnessed about the atrocities committed there. These are proven facts.


Researchers should have the right to research all the historical events, including the Holocaust, make their own conclusions about whether they really happened, how and why they happened. Does anybody disagree?

I also question the motives behind wanting to "clean" the nazi's reputation.
Everybody knows what they were about, "racial superiority" and fascism. Now who the fuck starts searching for evidence that maybe they weren't "that" bad?

Someone who sympathizes with them. And that's unforgivable. :angry:

[loveme4whoiam]

Absolutely. While I personally have never engaged in any in-depth Holocaust research, I have had several friends do so, two of them actually went to Auschwitz to see for themselves. Anyone who doubts the extent of the Holocaust's pervasions is either blind in the face of irrefutable evidence, or a Nazi sympathiser. Either way, they must be corrected at all costs. The Holocaust survivors are dying out now, it is up to anyone and everyone to ensure that the horrific events that occurred are remembered, and not to let neo-Nazi scum attempt to pervert the truth more than they already have.

[Severian]

Should Holocaust denial be illegal? No.

Are Holocaust deniers closet Nazis? yes.

[adenoid hynkel]

NOTHING can be 100% proven. Every historical event is surrounded, more or less, with doubt. And you cannot say that something is OBJECTIVELY proven. The evidence that one person considers enough to prove that something is true, another person considers it not enough.

And technically a Holocaust revisionist is NOT necessarily a nazi or a nazi-sympathizer.
I know that the vast majority of Holocaust revisionists are nazi-sympathizers. But this does not mean that a Holocaust revisionist and a nazi-sympathizer is the same thing by definition. For example most lefties are pro-abortion. But this does not mean that a leftie and a pro-abortion person is the same thing by definition. There are a few lefties who are against abortion.

I can agree that being a nazi-sympathizer should be illegal. If a person said that "what Hitler did to Jews was right" he should be punished. But I do not believe there should be any limits in historical research.

And finally take into consideration the fact that making the Holocaust denial or revisionism illegal gives to the nazis the potential to say; ""Hmmm, they punish you if you deny the Holocaust. Why do they do that? If what we learned about the Holocaust was obvious, they would have no reason to punish someome who denies it. So why do they punish him? They punish him because they are afraid of him. Why are they afraid of him if they have nothing to hide?"

Many people would believe this crap and the nazis would recruit easily more members for their cause.

[loveme4whoiam]

I'm not saying that it should be made illegal, just that those who believe such crap should be hurt. Alot. And then subjected to re-education proving that their original bullshit ideas were wrogn. Then hurt some more.

[Sentinel]

And technically a Holocaust revisionist is NOT necessarily a nazi or a nazi-sympathizer.
I know that the vast majority of Holocaust revisionists are nazi-sympathizers. But this does not mean that a Holocaust revisionist and a nazi-sympathizer is the same thing by definition. For example most lefties are pro-abortion. But this does not mean that a leftie and a pro-abortion person is the same thing by definition. There are a few lefties who are against abortion.

This is pure babble. Your abortion issues parable is notoriously irrelevant. What would in your opinion be positive or well-meaning reasons to question the holocaust and do research attempting to refute it? There can't be any.


And finally take into consideration the fact that making the Holocaust denial or revisionism illegal gives to the nazis the potential to say; ""Hmmm, they punish you if you deny the Holocaust. Why do they do that? If what we learned about the Holocaust was obvious, they would have no reason to punish someome who denies it. So why do they punish him? They punish him because they are afraid of him. Why are they afraid of him if they have nothing to hide?"

Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about what the nazis say. They have lost their credibility, so to say, in the ears of all rational people. And so:


Many people would believe this crap and the nazis would recruit easily more members for their cause.

They already try to say all that. But we can clearly see that almost everybody sees the nazi lies as what they are: outright bullshit. People aren't that stupid, you know.

[adenoid hynkel]

Originally posted by The [email protected] 12 2006, 08:53 PM
This is pure babble. Your abortion issues parable is notoriously irrelevant. What would in your opinion be positive or well-meaning reasons to question the holocaust and do research attempting to refute it? There can't be any.




And finally take into consideration the fact that making the Holocaust denial or revisionism illegal gives to the nazis the potential to say; ""Hmmm, they punish you if you deny the Holocaust. Why do they do that? If what we learned about the Holocaust was obvious, they would have no reason to punish someome who denies it. So why do they punish him? They punish him because they are afraid of him. Why are they afraid of him if they have nothing to hide?"

Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about what the nazis say. They have lost their credibility, so to say, in the ears of all rational people. And so:


Many people would believe this crap and the nazis would recruit easily more members for their cause.

They already try to say all that. But we can clearly see that almost everybody sees the nazi lies as what they are: outright bullshit. People aren't that stupid, you know.
[QUOTE]This is pure babble. Your abortion issues parable is notoriously irrelevant. What would in your opinion be positive or well-meaning reasons to question the holocaust and do research attempting to refute it? There can't be any.

A reason to start researcing could be HISTORICAL INTEREST. Not all historical research is done to serve propaganda. There could be other reasons as well. You can be sure that Iran's leader does not want to "clean" the nazi's reputation. He does not give a shit about the nazis' reputation.


[QUOTE]Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about what the nazis say. They have lost their credibility, so to say, in the ears of all rational people. And so:
[QUOTE]They already try to say all that. But we can clearly see that almost everybody sees the nazi lies as what they are: outright bullshit. People aren't that stupid, you know.

Whether you give a rat's ass or not has no importance. The nazis have been in the past VERY POPULAR and this proves that people were that stupid in the past and CAN BE THAT STUPID IN THE FUTURE. The danger that they will be popular again and come to power again EXISTS. See what is going on in Russia for example. Or see Le Pen's popularity in France.

You say that "they already try to say all that". I know. But if Holocaust denial/revisionism was legal, then they COULD NOT say all that. Why do you want to give them the potential to say it? Why someone would want to give them more arguments? By punishing the Holocaust Deniers you make them important.

[Sentinel]

I really don't see how allowing the "historically interested" holocaust deniers to spread their views and false "research" would make nazism more condemned.

It obviously is the other way around. The nazis would greatly benefit from having "recognized historians" and "scientists" officially backing up their claims.

That cannot be allowed.

[timbaly]

I'm not so sure, I think it will work both ways. Some people will laugh at ridicule the nazi sympathizing historians and generate more anti-nazi feelings. Major groups would condemn the people who claim to "prove" there was no holocaust. The nazi's would never get media support since they are hated by nearlt everyone in the world. It might help legitamize the movement and convince a few people to join the ranks but those people were already lost.

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 05:02 PM

"Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces and they insist on it to the extent that if anyone proves something contrary to that they condemn that person and throw them in jail," IRNA quoted Ahmadinejad as saying.

I don't think any of us are surprised at the insanity and absurdity in this statement. It's sad that people can honestly deny the events of the holocaust. I would like to know who these jailed people allegedly are.
David Irving and Ernest Zundel are two that I know of. They are a couple of whack jobs and Nazi sympathisers but they do not belong in jail for idiotic theories. Putting them in jail gives thier argument credability and makes one wonder if someone is trying to hide something maybe the numbers were exagerated but that is irrelevant the crimes were committed and they were horrendous just the same.

[James]

it's denied for political reasons.
Whoever denies it is just bloody stupid or dangerous.
Take your pick.

[Free Palestine]

Revisionists are holocaust diminishers, not deniers. I see holocaust revisionism as the act of revising WWII history in accordance with the real facts. Yes, there's a lot of crap. But some of it is noteworthy. And they certainly aren't holocaust deniers, that's rubbish. They are questioners about what they believe are significant exaggerations.

[Atlas Swallowed]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2006, 02:31 AM
it's denied for political reasons.
Whoever denies it is just bloody stupid or dangerous.
Take your pick.
Do you believe they should be in jail? If we put all dangerous and stupid people in jail no one would be left as guards and we would all die of starvation.

[loveme4whoiam]

Revisionists are holocaust diminishers, not deniers. I see holocaust revisionism as the act of revising WWII history in accordance with the real facts. Yes, there's a lot of crap. But some of it is noteworthy. And they certainly aren't holocaust deniers, that's rubbish. They are questioners about what they believe are significant exaggerations.
Want to rephrase that? <_<

Iran&#39;s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has expressed doubt that the Holocaust occurred

[Free Palestine]

No, as I was speaking in regards to serious revisionists, not Ahmadinejad&#39;s polemics

[BuyOurEverything]

I see holocaust revisionism as the act of revising WWII history in accordance with the real facts.

Oh? And what, pray tell, are these &#39;facts&#39;?

[James]

atlas.
no, not on those grounds.

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

One hot summer day, 1944.

-"Say, have you seen any of those 6 million jews?"
-"Nope, dunno where they went. Probably went for a walk or something.."
:rolleyes:


Revisionist retards.

[YSR]

I&#39;m most concerned with 15 or so years down the line, when most of the original victims are dead. Without someone to actively say "I was there," revisionists are going to gain a measure of credibility.

Obviously, we can&#39;t put them in jail. That would make them political prisoners. And if we know anything about political prisoners, it&#39;s that it makes them more popular. Hell, that&#39;s why some of us probably discovered radicalism.

[Comrade Yastrebkov]

Do you lot believe that Stalin "gassed 80 million people because they critisiced him"? I have heard people say that. Some even say 100 million. These figures are ridiculous. Even 20 million has no factual backup.

And why should I trust the western media when they say "the Iranian president has expressed doubts that the holocaust occurred?" Was his quote not "the holocaust is exaggerated and blown our of proportion"?

Of course any sane human would condemn the actions of the Nazis, and anyone who justifies them should be jailed. I have not researched revisionism sufficiently to defend it, but I am saying that if it is possible for governments to blow figures out of proportion (as in Stalin&#39;s case) or make them minimal (like the Vietnam war) is this not possible with the holocaust figures? I mean, who gains from them, after all?

[Free Palestine]

but I am saying that if it is possible for governments to blow figures out of proportion (as in Stalin&#39;s case) or make them minimal (like the Vietnam war) is this not possible with the holocaust figures?

Here at RevLeft, that is OK as long as the victims aren&#39;t Jews. Then it&#39;s anti-Semitic&#33; :blink:

[Phalanx]

And why should I trust the western media when they say "the Iranian president has expressed doubts that the holocaust occurred?" Was his quote not "the holocaust is exaggerated and blown our of proportion"?

No, his quotes were (pertaining to the Holocaust) "Although we don&#39;t accept this claim".


Here at RevLeft, that is OK as long as the victims aren&#39;t Jews. Then it&#39;s anti-Semitic&#33;

Just because we don&#39;t spend 100% of our time venting hatred towards the "Great Satan" that is Israel doesn&#39;t mean that we believe minimalizing other genocides is okay.

Most sane people believe that 800,000 or more people were killed in Rwanda. I doubt many people here would try to minimize that number. Most would think one would have to be extremely stupid or just a racist fuckbag to diminish the scale.

Stop being such a dumbass.

[Free Palestine]

Uh huh. Or maybe some historians are genuinely interested in the truth in accordance with the actual facts. Crazy thought, isn&#39;t it? It is understandable why people like you insist on the racism motive. If in a debate about the shape of the earth you could pin on someone "flat-earth believer," you&#39;ve scored big points even if that&#39;s absurd and not what they are saying.

Always remember, history is written by the victor and the real truth is hard to find.

[Phalanx]

So, the deaths of 6 million are just as much fact as the &#39;earth is flat&#39; theory? The Holocaust revisionists aren&#39;t out for the truth, they thrive on purely political motives. And there&#39;s always people like you willing to give them your support and tell everyone they&#39;re not racist. This bullshit has a place on stormfront, not here.

[Atlas Swallowed]

Government should not be able to jail anyone for researching history regardless of thier motivation. If it is bullshit it will be easy to pick apart and will be supported by no facts. Some people believe that the wealthy are reptiles from outerspace, they are fools granted but do not belong in jail. The holocaust revisionists I know of are racially motivated wack jobs. If thier are some that someone belives is not, please give names or links.

The Iranian President might not even believe in this he might just be taunting his enemy. They are infact pushing for an unjustfiable war against his nation. The neighboring Iraqis bent over backwards to try to prevent their invasion. Perhaps it is just his way of saying "fuck you Israel".


The holocaust was a ghastly crime, but it should not be an excuse to bring harm onto others that were not a part of that crime as the Zionist have a habit of doing. Israel was a supporter of Aparteid South Africa and thier actions against the Palestinians for them to use the holocaust as any justification of any act is hypocritical.