Cuba - Tourist apartheid?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I have heard Cubans are not allowed to associate with tourists. That it would be difficult to make friends in, say, Havana, because of that... I came over a site that said the government thinks somewhat like "Tourists? Yes. Tourists associating with Cubans? No"
Is there some truth in this?

[Eoin Dubh]

HM.. interesting topic.
I was disappointed with my mum when she went to Cuba with her boyfriend.
He is kinda lame so I will blame it on him (LOL), but they went to the elite Varadero resort area and sat around on the beach for most of the time. They did manage to get to Havana though and my mum had this little pin with crossed Cuba/Canada flags on it that I had given her for the trip and she said it made her trip soooo much better as Cubans would remark on it and she had a chance for one-on-one chats. They seem to really like Canadians. One little boy of about 5 saw the pin and began to hustle my mum in a really lovely way. He asked her if she spoke French and they could communicate somewhat, so he began to ask her for chewing gum, and pens, really anything of value.
On the other hand, my friend went down and rented a car (! nearly impossible I am told) and tore around the whole island for 2 months, getting away from the touristy areas and he had an absolutely excellent time with the locals wherever he went.

I think the Cuban Govt. just doesnt want the tourist with green backs to buy sex. I recall that prostitution was nearly eliminated after the US dollar became illegal. 'Spin' magazine reported that a (lame) guy could get a blowjob anywhere in Cuba for no more than 5$ US dollars now that the US currency is legal again.

My friend who rented the car had guys offering him their sisters for a few bucks. Pretty sad.
If you get caught with a young girl and a stack of cash, you are in BIG trouble.
Which is fine with me.
:che: :cuba: :castro:

[Reds]

I belive the hotels and tourist sector are privitly owned but, outside the this area I sure there are no resrictions on interaction between cudans and tourists.

[*PRC*Kensei]

i think this is a good thing.

from one side i think : bloody capitalism is finding his way in
from the other side i think : hurray, i can go to cuba this summer :D

[Correa]

My Uncle works for Expo Cuba and has offered me, my wife, and son free room and board. All we need is the plane ticket. Of course you can't fly directly to Cuba and I'm broke so I have yet to go. I think the limited interaction with Cubans in the tourist section is to ward CIA agents from interaction with the general populance. I can't think of any other reason why they would otherwise.

[Orthodox Marxist]

I have heard Cubans are not allowed to associate with tourists. That it would be difficult to make friends in, say, Havana, because of that... I came over a site that said the government thinks somewhat like "Tourists? Yes. Tourists associating with Cubans? No"
Is there some truth in this?

No there is not really any truth to this Cubans are free to associate with whomever they wish when I was In cuba I stayed at club amigo in Guardalavaca I made friends with two cubans carlos and miguel we had drinks together went out boating just about everything the hotels however have strcit policy that they arent allowed in the hotels and your not allowed to bring them food from the hotel I still email carlos and miguel and write to them often

[Correa]

That sounds more like it, the rest sounds like Gusano myths.

[ReD_ReBeL]

hmmm check out this anti-cuban website http://www.therealcuba.com/ and tell me wht u think

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 07:16 PM
hmmm check out this anti-cuban website http://www.therealcuba.com/ and tell me wht u think
Here's what I think:

Total fucking bullshit.

[ReD_ReBeL]

lol exactly wht i was thinking comrade

[Correa]

What pisses me off about that website isn't the fact that it doesn't even reflect an objective right-wing point of view. It is the fact that they have one lie after another. They have a picture of so called "unhappy people" which shows a group of Cubans gathered by a run down building. Trying to trick people into thinking that because some of Cuba's buildings haven't been remodeled somehow the people must be neglected as well. The buildings might look old but the people are well feed, educated, and taken care of. What good are fancy buildings with starving under educated people?

[Andy Bowden]

Therealcuba is so shite. One of these days im going to do "therealglasgow", and show why one of Scotlands major cities is decrepit and needs a US force to liberate it, sharpish

:lol:


On the issue of Hotels, I believe Cubans arent allowed in some hotels on the basis that only those with dollars could afford it and it would therefore increase divisions in society.

[bolshevik butcher]

Yeh, Cuba is still the right wings favourate target. I think it's because it's seen as 'the one that got away' by the right wing, as at the time just about all other soicalist govnerments in latin america were taken out via U$ backed coups or invasions.

However with Chavez and other socialist leaders looking to rise up in Latin America just now I think that Cuba is going to be of vital importance once again.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

On the issue of Hotels, I believe Cubans arent allowed in some hotels on the basis that only those with dollars could afford it and it would therefore increase divisions in society.

And it's also to limit prostitution.

There are still many hotels and resorts for Cubans as well, and they get regular vacation time to enjoy them with their families.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Do Cubans get the vacation to the hotel for free?

[Andy Bowden]

I also find it quite ironic Cuba is being accused of creating apartheid after they sent their armed forces to fight (and in cases die) trying to destroy apartheid armies in Angola, and the people who accuse Cuba of apartheid today are the people who supported apartheid in South Africa.

<_<

[ReD_ReBeL]

ok tourists r allowed to be among Cubans , However Cubans r not aloud to go to tourist hotels or tourist beaches , and its a crime for a tourist to bring food from the tourist Hotel and give it to a Cuban. But as long as they r interacting in the non-tourist areas its all fine. apprently anyway i dont know this for sure since i have never visited Cuba or spoke to Cubans

[Simotix]

I am trying to get a trip to Cuba going this summer (will be 18). However, I have never traveled much before (only to Puerto Rico a long time ago). What would I need to do? Get a visa and its ok? I heard you can&#39;t fly directly to Cuba, but I was planning to stop in London and maybe Aussie so I could I fly from like London to Cuba?


Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 10:23 PM
My Uncle works for Expo Cuba and has offered me, my wife, and son free room and board.
Where in Cuba is the Expo Cuba?

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by exoity+Dec 11 2005, 04:39 PM--> (exoity @ Dec 11 2005, 04:39 PM) I am trying to get a trip to Cuba going this summer (will be 18). However, I have never traveled much before (only to Puerto Rico a long time ago). What would I need to do? Get a visa and its ok? I heard you can&#39;t fly directly to Cuba, but I was planning to stop in London and maybe Aussie so I could I fly from like London to Cuba?


[email protected] 10 2005, 10:23 PM
My Uncle works for Expo Cuba and has offered me, my wife, and son free room and board.
Where in Cuba is the Expo Cuba? [/b]
A United States Citizen cannot travel to Cuba, it is illegal.

You could try going to somewhere else (Like you said London) and then to Cuba, but if you arrive back in America with your passport stamped "Cuba", you are screwed.

[Simotix]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 09:43 PM
You could try going to somewhere else (Like you said London) and then to Cuba, but if you arrive back in America with your passport stamped "Cuba", you are screwed.
What would happen if I get caught? What do you think the possibilites of getting busted are?

I thought I read that you were allowed one visit every three years ...

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

No, that&#39;s only if you have family.

But they won&#39;t stamp your passport in Cuba because they don&#39;t want you to get caught. Instead they&#39;ll stamp a little slip of paper and then stick it in your passport, and you can throw it away when you leave.

The only problem you&#39;ll have is explaining why you have an exit stamp from where ever, and then a return stamp, but no explanation of where you were in between.

If you go, you can go through a place like Cancun, but U.S. agents have even been known to station there looking for returning U.S. citizens.

The best bet is to fly through the Dominican Republic. You can catch a plane from New York to the DR for &#036;200 and then hop over from there.

If they ask about the extra stamps, say you crossed into Haiti at a check point and border agents stamped you in the DR, but not in Haiti.

It&#39;s semi-plausable, and it doesn&#39;t really matter if they believe you or not, as long as they can&#39;t prove you were in Cuba and you don&#39;t admit anything there&#39;s nothing they can do.

If you are caught you can get a fine of several thousand dollars from the treasury department.

As for Visa&#39;s, the stamp you get when you enter counts as one.

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by Ownthink+Dec 11 2005, 09:43 PM--> (Ownthink @ Dec 11 2005, 09:43 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 04:39 PM
I am trying to get a trip to Cuba going this summer (will be 18). However, I have never traveled much before (only to Puerto Rico a long time ago). What would I need to do? Get a visa and its ok? I heard you can&#39;t fly directly to Cuba, but I was planning to stop in London and maybe Aussie so I could I fly from like London to Cuba?


[email protected] 10 2005, 10:23 PM
My Uncle works for Expo Cuba and has offered me, my wife, and son free room and board.
Where in Cuba is the Expo Cuba?
A United States Citizen cannot travel to Cuba, it is illegal.

You could try going to somewhere else (Like you said London) and then to Cuba, but if you arrive back in America with your passport stamped "Cuba", you are screwed. [/b]
Lots of Americans travel to Cuba every year. The Cuban government will not stamp an American passport, they give you an individual slip of papaer and then stamp it, you discard this paper, obviously upon returning to the country you arrived from, i.e. Guatemala.

[Simotix]

Well what I am thinking of doing is going London for about two weeks (want to visit some place in Londom). Then I was thinking of traveling to Cuba from London and stay there for a few weeks (want to see much, and seems like a very nice place to just get away). From there I wanted to go to a third country (I mean I can&#39;t just fly from Cuba to America so I would have to go some where else too&#33;). I was thinking around the lines of Amsterdam for a while but I would like to go to Sydney or some where in Australia before I come back.

[Guerrilla22]

Travelling to Cuba fro a country that isn&#39;t a strong US ally might be a better idea.

[Simotix]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 11:20 PM
Travelling to Cuba fro a country that isn&#39;t a strong US ally might be a better idea.
Well what will happen, I will be "ratted on"? I could go to Aussie, to Cuba then London. Maybe the DR idea is not that bad, I could try that. Anyway, most of this is in the thinking stages.

[Guerrilla22]

Dunno, I know that the US government put pressure on the Canadian and Mexican governments to not allow airlines in their countries to sell airline tickets to Cuba to US citizens. So I don&#39;t know what would happen. I do know several people who have flown to Cuba from Guatemala and Honduras with no problems.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Tons of Americans still fly from Cancun and Canada. Thousands infact.

This (http://www.cubalinda.com/) site is actually recommended by the Cuban government for Americans that want to travel to Cuba. You may find something useful there.

[Orthodox Marxist]

Do Cubans get the vacation to the hotel for free?

Yes it is true

Remember dont spend all your cash in Cuba the government charges you 25&#036; american to get out of the country

[tatu]

"Now, when you take a tour around Havana&#39;s streets most Cubans seem to be sad and unhappy."


What a load of tripe. They&#39;ve posted pictures of people who "seem to be sad". For example, that&#39;s like me going to Paris and taking pictures of people that "seem to be sad" and making out that on the basis of these pictures that Paris is a bad place to live, does that mean that Paris is a bad place to be? What a joke. WTF? How can you post grainy pictures of homeless people on the net and expect people to accept that as proof of irresponsibility on the so-called "dictatorship‘s" behalf?
That site seems like a desperate attempt to denounce the Cuban “dictatorship”.

[Simotix]

Ok everybody, got some good thoughts.

I plane ticket from Newark to Puerto Rico (I am slightly puerto rican) is &#036;208 (round). Anyone recommend a good way from Puerto Rico to Cuba (this would be happening in the summer). Also, I used travelocity.com to see what a ticket from London to Cuba would be ... said &#39;Due to a U.S. government travel restriction we are unable to book this reservation.&#39;. Is this because it is an American owned site? I know it is restricted but is there a way they are finding out I am an American? I also tried Sydney to Cuba and would not let it.

Do they not allow Puerto Rican (from PR) access to Cuba also?

[Correa]

I was born and raised in Puerto Rico (until 14 anyways, I&#39;m 25 now) and Puerto Rico has the same restrictions as any state. Perhaps you can fly a cesna to Santo Domingo and take a plane from there.

[Stormshield]

Originally posted by Andy [email protected] 11 2005, 04:57 PM
I also find it quite ironic Cuba is being accused of creating apartheid after they sent their armed forces to fight (and in cases die) trying to destroy apartheid armies in Angola, and the people who accuse Cuba of apartheid today are the people who supported apartheid in South Africa.

<_<
Couldn&#39;t have put it better myself.

[Simotix]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 08:39 PM
I was born and raised in Puerto Rico (until 14 anyways, I&#39;m 25 now) and Puerto Rico has the same restrictions as any state. Perhaps you can fly a cesna to Santo Domingo and take a plane from there.
How about like a boat from Puerto Rico and another relative island, to Cuba?

Damn American blockades ...

[Correa]

If you are going to be in Puerto Rico your best bet is to go through the DR. If a boat is cheaper then take a boat. :D

[guerrillero]

Here is the facts according to CNN:

Resolution 10, issued by the Tourism Ministry, forbids employees -- from waiters to high-level executives -- from accepting tips, gifts and invitations from foreigners and demands that Cubans&#39; contact with non-Cubans be restricted "to that which is absolutely necessary."

The new law also requires a witness to be present during business negotiations with foreigners.

The segregation rules go far beyond norms applied in most of the rest of the world. For example, any non-professional contact with a foreigner, not just by an employee but also by any member of his or her family, must be reported to a superior within 72 hours.

Staff members are now required to report any foreigner whose behavior or comments are considered offensive to the Cuban government.

They are further instructed to "be vigilant at all times of any deed or attitude that could be harmful to the State." The norms also apply to Tourist Ministry employees who work abroad.

Personal friendships with foreigners are forbidden for the more than 100,000 Cubans who work in tourism, Cuba&#39;s largest industry.

Staff members are also instructed to refuse all personal invitations from diplomats, business associates and even colleagues, if they are foreigners.

The rules could have far-reaching effects: most Cuban hotels are managed by representatives of overseas hotel chains.

The segregation measures went into effect last month in most tourist resorts and are expected to go into effect shortly in the capital.

One foreign hotel manager likened the measures to the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

Cuban and overseas workers interviewed by CNN say the restrictions will be almost impossible to enforce, especially the prohibition on accepting tips and cultivating friendships.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 and the resulting cutoff of Soviet subsidies to Cuba, the Castro government introduced tourism "as a necessary evil," regarding it as a critical source of foreign exchange, but also a corrupting capitalist influence in Cuban society.