Looking for Advice on Debating

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

I would like to improve my ability to debate and convince people my perspective is correct. Since I often argue with intellectuals, they are, unfortunately, not more likely to see my perspective (just more likely to think they are right). With that being said, I am interested in learning how to debate better, whether it be through debating techniques, manipulation, or propaganda. Thanks.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Someone made a similar thread recently, and to that person I suggested Logical Fallacies and the Art of Debate (http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html).

You may find it helpful.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I'm not sure what you mean by "manipulation" but I would warn that as radicals we should not try and win a debate if it means we have to "trick" or lie to do it. This is not for any moral reasons, but because it is more important to win workers to our ideas than to be able to claim victory in one debate. If we lie and win one debate, but later on down the road we are shown to have lied then we loose the confidence of the people we want on our side.

Further, we don't want workers to just agree with us, we want to convince them of our arguments and to take matters into their own hands. If we have to "manipulate" then we are mearly getting people to follow, not to "take up".

[Jimmie Higgins]

Additionally, sometimes it will take objective events to proove our arguments to people. I remember argueing with people during the anti-globalization movement that, to our ruling class, the state was still relevant when they were argueing that globalization had made it irrelevent and that wars or imperialism were a relic of the past. Low and behold, a couple of invasions later and the arguments I couldn't win people to a couple of years earlier have been settled.

Or imagine trying to argue to people in the late 90s in the US that economic crisis in capitalism was inevitable. They would have responded by saying, "no this is the "miracle" tech economy; it's the information revolution and economic crisis are a thing of the past, just look at how well the economy is doing". Well, just look at how well the US economy is doing now and how well thoes people with "tech" jobs are doing now.

[die4oil]

You could try something alot of RevLefters lack: logic.

[People's Coalition]

I would like to improve my ability to debate and convince people my perspective is correct. Since I often argue with intellectuals, they are, unfortunately, not more likely to see my perspective (just more likely to think they are right). With that being said, I am interested in learning how to debate better, whether it be through debating techniques, manipulation, or propaganda. Thanks.

Research your opponets backround, dig some dirt and try to do some damage to him/her's image. Make sure not to act like you don't know what your talking about, don't stutter or use to many "uhs" in your sentences, show that your more intelligent than the other person. Make sure to always look him/her in the eye and make sure to have a clear Ideological Position on your debator.

Manipulation is always good and so is making a fool of your opponet when you debate. In debates, say "Pardon Me, But you mistaken me for someone who actually gives a shit", "I see you have taken this special time to make a fool of yourself in public", "I'm busy now. Can I ignore you some other time?" or "I see the wheel is spinning, but the hamster looks dead."

[die4oil]

Actually, I know this sounds real lame, but a speech class never hurt anyone.

[somebodywhowantedtoleaveandnotcomeback]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 09:49 PM
You could try something alot of RevLefters lack: logic.
What makes you say that?

As for debating, the best way of learning is still observing and participating in debates as much as you can, and also reading about facts and arguments that may prove to be useful in a debate. Worked for me.

[die4oil]

[QUOTE]What makes you say that?[QUOTE]
Honestly I'm used to less subjectivism, which RevLeft is filled with. Other than that there is alot of typical first world escapism and dillusionment. Everyones a victim here.

Seriously, a speech class WILL help. It did me. But in the end logic is your best bet. Study your line well and anticpate any weaknesses it may have.

[Delirium]

Originally posted by People's [email protected] 22 2005, 09:19 PM

I would like to improve my ability to debate and convince people my perspective is correct. Since I often argue with intellectuals, they are, unfortunately, not more likely to see my perspective (just more likely to think they are right). With that being said, I am interested in learning how to debate better, whether it be through debating techniques, manipulation, or propaganda. Thanks.

Research your opponets backround, dig some dirt and try to do some damage to him/her's image. Make sure not to act like you don't know what your talking about, don't stutter or use to many "uhs" in your sentences, show that your more intelligent than the other person. Make sure to always look him/her in the eye and make sure to have a clear Ideological Position on your debator.

Manipulation is always good and so is making a fool of your opponet when you debate. In debates, say "Pardon Me, But you mistaken me for someone who actually gives a shit", "I see you have taken this special time to make a fool of yourself in public", "I'm busy now. Can I ignore you some other time?" or "I see the wheel is spinning, but the hamster looks dead."
That is completly wrong. It is by far easier to pretend that you are better than somone intellectully and intimidate them into accepting it than it is to actully articulate you ideas and convince them.

People should make up thier own minds about things rather than being swayed by a shiny but hollow argument. That pisses me off more than anything else.

You should work for the republicans. :P

[People's Coalition]

Originally posted by Datura [email protected] 24 2005, 11:04 PM
You should work for the republicans. :P
Funny thing you should say that, I myself am I former Capitalist. During the times that I was Capitalist, I became interested in Communism/Socialism. I began to read Communist Writings and researching the history of Communism and its workings. I also began to join several communist groups after that and I'm a member of the Communist Party USA.

I'm a strong supporter of Communism, I've been communist for over 4 months and i've been enjoying ever minute of it.

[bezdomni]

Establish these three things with your audience, and you will be more persuasive.

Ethos- Why you have credentials to discuss whatever it is you are discussing.

Pathos- Appeal to the emotions of your audience.

Logos - Establish the fact that your position and arguments are logical.

Use the following things in your arguments, and you will find them more powerful.

1) Premise - the basic tagline of what you want to get across. For example...capitalism has to eventually collapse.

2) Warrant - "proof" that this is true. It can be hard numbers and facts or a quote from an expert on the topic.

3) Impact - why does it matter? For example... the collapse of capitalism will lead to the development of socialism.