Socialism

[Everyday Anarchy]

So Socialism is supposed to be the transition stage between Capitalism and Communism, right?
Is Socialism and Dictatorship of the Proletariat the same?


With those out of the way, my initial question: Why do so many attempts at Communism get stuck in Socialism? Why is it that most countries seeming to move in the right direction usually become totalitarian socialism?

[Clarksist]

No countries have ever had socialism. That's the problem. Once Socialism is there, and the workers have democracy over every bit of life, slowly society turns into a communistic one.

As for your first two questions, socialism is the transitional stage between communism and capitalism... if you are a Marxist.

And, Socialism means that the proletariat will rule, making them the dictators.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Socialism is a society where the workers are the ruling class and the "DoP" is the means by which workers rule society in theory.

I think russia achieved socialism but was only able to sustain it for a very short time (in months not decades). In my opinion (you are likely to get several different explainations to your question) Russia never sustained worker's power because it had a very small working class and was industrially underdeveloped. The Bolsheviks took power "in the name of workers" and many (notably Lennin and Trotsky) felt that if the revolution spread to developed countries then this "dictctatorship by the party" would no longer be necissary and the working class of the more developed country (i.e. Germany) could lead.

Of corse we know what happened in Germany, there wasn't a revolution. So In russia, the bolsheviks desperately tried to hold onto power "for the workers" but with civil war and hunger, the party took more power and then burocrats withing the party were able to use these new powers to set themselves up as a sort of de-facto ruling class (killing anarchists, other bolsheviks, and workers and peasants in the process to accomplish this).

Other countries tried to follow stalin's "socialism in one contry" doctrine which, i think, was disasterous and a complete derailment of "socialism" into something else entirely. Some call this "deformed worker states" while I call it "state capitalism".

If worker are able to have a revolution and set up democratic rule by workers, then I think it will be very possible for them to create socialism. Without class intrests, there is no reason for a state to exist as we know it because there isn't the need to have one class rule other classes.

[Everyday Anarchy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 02:26 AM
No countries have ever had socialism.
Whoa. When I first came here and began to learn about Communism, the first big blow was this whole "no country has had communism." That took a while to set in, but it has and I understand. But now no country has had socialism, either? So what were/are the other 'Communist' countries? I always thought what I used to believe were Communist countries were actually Socialist countries.


Oh, and because of your guys' responses. Let me change my question a little. Why have so many countries who moved in the direction of Communism end up becoming police states/totalitarianist countries? North Korea, China, Soviet Union, etc.

[which doctor]

Lots of time people consider scanidavian countries and canada socialist. They are wrong, these run under welfare capitalism or "capitalism lite".

[KC]

So Socialism is supposed to be the transition stage between Capitalism and Communism, right?
Is Socialism and Dictatorship of the Proletariat the same?

There are three threads open on this forum discussing the Dictatorship of the Proletariat, I believe. One's in here and two are in theory, I'm pretty sure.




With those out of the way, my initial question: Why do so many attempts at Communism get stuck in Socialism? Why is it that most countries seeming to move in the right direction usually become totalitarian socialism?

That's Leninism for you :rolleyes:


No countries have ever had socialism.

Russia was socialist right after the October revolution for a little bit. Then they handed power over to the Bolsheviks.


Socialism is a society where the workers are the ruling class and the "DoP" is the means by which workers rule society in theory.

I wouldn't call socialism a society. It isn't by any means. It is a process.


Why have so many countries who moved in the direction of Communism end up becoming police states/totalitarianist countries? North Korea, China, Soviet Union, etc.

Leninism, Maoism, the lack of material conditions.

I have written about socialism in my blog. You can find the link to my blog in my signature.