Reformism

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

I am, personally, in favor of reforming capitalism to create a Libertarian Socialist society. However, I think it is unlikely that it will happen during my time. I am skeptical about revolution as I dislike violence (atheist), and I am unsure how it would be successful long term.

I am just wondering if there are any other reformists here? I know some people are strong in their opinions here, but I would like to keep things as civil as possible. Remember, you may think reformism is obviously wrong, but what is obvious to you may be complex to someone else.

[ComradeOm]

Remember that this is Revolutionary Left. You won't find many reformists here.

[Delirium]

I have yet to decide on the topic, but i believe i may go pro revolution thanks to some clarifications on dictatorship of the proletariot (in theory).

[Clarksist]

I dislike violence (atheist)


(I don't see what anti-violence has to do with atheism, but whatever)

I dislike violence too, and I am an atheist... that is why I'm for revolution.

Capitalists, and the authorities that stand for it have maimed and killed and destroyed anything that stands in capitalism's way. So... revolution, is a short term height in killing the other side, to prevent murder and violence in the long term.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

"...history shows us that the class that controls the means of production controls the political and economic power, and is not willing to relinquish that power without a life-or-death struggle. In other words, in order for any real change to occur, revolutionary change is necessary. Bourgeois elections can provide no real change, for it is the capitalist system, not any particular representative, which operates in direct opposition to the interests of the working class and its allies."

From The Manifesto of the Free People's Movement (http://www.fpm-mgl.org)

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

I have came here because I am unable to find people who share my ideological views - I am a libertarian socialist. Other forums I have found had reformists, but few of them were leftist enough for me.

I thought I should mention that I am atheist since some people view being non-violent as a religious viewpoint.

[ReD_ReBeL]

yea i quite like reformism, look at Hugo Chavez he is doing it well i think and also Mikhail Gorbachev even tho in a way his reforms brought an end to the USSR, he was the only Premier of the soviet union, to bring basic freedoms to humans life as ppl should be allowed in every country in this world ie.complete freedom of speech, freedom to elect your fave government, independance to the eastern bloc etc

[TheComrade]

I am unsure over the issue. Isn't reformism too weak? Can it really be done? Seeings as there is no democracy - certainly in the UK and America - how are you supposed to change a system which is dominated by the wealthy and those that have all the power?

I don't believe a violent revolution would help anyone. If 80% of the population agreed with Socialism then why should violence be needed? The power mad leaders can't kill 80% - especially if they have no army (the soliders are socialist!)

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I am unsure over the issue. Isn't reformism too weak? Can it really be done?

No, it can't. The working class has never seized the means of production through a vote. It's not possible.


I don't believe a violent revolution would help anyone. If 80% of the population agreed with Socialism then why should violence be needed?

Because the rulling class will not give up its position of power with a life or death struggle. History has shown this time and time again.

[RedDemocrat]

James Callaghan became Prime Minister through a democratic vote. He worked his way into politics through the unions. You may say he betrayed his working class ideals but, however much you disagree with his means, he put tackling poverty and unemployment at the heart of his aims as Prime Minister.

[ReD_ReBeL]

Yes reformism can work on occasions but as a slow process i think. Hugo Chavez style Populism seems to be working quite wlelm from wht i hear, and the majority of the peasantry and working class are behind which is good and apprently he has dropped poverty in Venezuela from 80% down to 40% now i think that is a great achievment. And also his plan to build alot more houses seems to be good for the working class and peasantry who live in run down houses and wll be available for a cheap price. yes but to the question yes i believe reformism can work if the party is dedicated to wht they want to tacle and not just in profit and the elite class.

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 01:35 PM
James Callaghan became Prime Minister through a democratic vote. He worked his way into politics through the unions. You may say he betrayed his working class ideals but, however much you disagree with his means, he put tackling poverty and unemployment at the heart of his aims as Prime Minister.
And the UK is still as bastion of capitalism. Congratulations Mr Callaghan :rolleyes:

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by Dooga Aetrus [email protected] 5 2005, 09:19 PM
I am, personally, in favor of reforming capitalism to create a Libertarian Socialist society.
That's nice, but it'll never ever work.

Out of interest, what do you think a libertarian socialist society is anyway?


am skeptical about revolution as I dislike violence (atheist)

Who actually likes violence?

No one likes violence, violence is a horrible human interaction, but unfortunately, the system that we live under forces violence to be necessary.

Also, what does being an atheist have to do with not "likeing" violence?


and I am unsure how it would be successful long term

What does that mean?


Remember, you may think reformism is obviously wrong, but what is obvious to you may be complex to someone else.

It's not obviously wrong, it just never going to work.